Pub annoyances #834

[oldboots]

I'm sure they're still out there, but I've no idea how common they are, these days.

Auto-vacs are still very common in North and particularly West Yorkshire, every Ossett pub uses them (Three Pigeons, Halifax for example), whereas Pivovar pubs (the Taps in Harrogate, Sheffield and York) ban them as disgusting. Also fairly common in Edinburgh where they're called return trays.

Some CAMRA members are fanatically against them while a few others are fanatically pro, the anti's won a motion at a CAMRA AGM hence the symbol in the GBG and an obligation on branches to record their use. I think the return tray designation in GBG is due to the motion coming from a particular fanatic in the Edinburgh branch.

They are acceptable as long as the staff know how to use them and how to hold the glass when pouring. Used that way they're certainly better than staff handling a glass with their dirty fingers on the rim.

[aleandhearty]

Where known, there's a symbol in WhatPub eg https://whatpub.com/pubs/YOR/078/guy-fawkes-york where it is called a 'return tray', presumably because Autovac is a trademark.

I'm ashamed to say the significance of that symbol has passed me by, down the years. Still I've taken it on board now.

Auto-vacs are still very common in North and particularly West Yorkshire, every Ossett pub uses them (Three Pigeons, Halifax for example), whereas Pivovar pubs (the Taps in Harrogate, Sheffield and York) ban them as disgusting. Also fairly common in Edinburgh where they're called return trays.

Just looked up my two regular watering holes Harry's and Luis' Bar and both use them! Don't know if you saw the link to the 2011 discussion (post #657) but not an awful lot seems to have changed down the years, overall.

[trainman]

I am so shocked reading this. Excellent breweries and iconic pubs using this methodology to serve recycled beer, to save on ullage? Use lined glasses or accept that the overspill is just a business cost.
How's Andy gonna cope now in (previously glorious) Ossett-Land, and with his two stalwarts using this?
Tbh, I wish I hadn't clicked on this thread...

[Tris39]

I'm sure they're still out there, but I've no idea how common they are, these days.

Hmmm; Yorkshire. I'd never heard of these things before only coming across the term included in the description for this pub.

Where known, there's a symbol in WhatPub eg https://whatpub.com/pubs/YOR/078/guy-fawkes-york where it is called a 'return tray', presumably because Autovac is a trademark.

Autovac is a trademark, but I suspect isn't used as there may be other similar systems. 'Return Tray' is a bit of a euphemism; Dead Flies, Phlegm and Dandruff Induction System would be better.

[Wittenden]

Auto-vacs are still very common in North Yorkshire

I must admit I'd never come across these before. A quick search on Whatpub of my favoured North Yorkshire pubs came up clear, but can one tell by peering over the bar at the pumps? This thread puts me in mind of a pub, not a million miles from me in the Low Weald, now under different management, where the barmaids regularily poured the slops from the drip tray back into the casks racked up on stillage at the back of the bar.

[aleandhearty]

How's Andy gonna cope now in (previously glorious) Ossett-Land, and with his two stalwarts using this?

Carry on regardless, I suspect.

They are acceptable as long as the staff know how to use them and how to hold the glass when pouring. Used that way they're certainly better than staff handling a glass with their dirty fingers on the rim.

Yeah, staff training and good technique are key. Thinking about it, I can't remember the last time I saw a barkeep let beer run over their fingers. The way to go seems to be hold the base of the glass and bring the level up to about an inch below the top. Let it settle, whilst paying, then top up carefully.

[Tris39]

Three Pigeons, Halifax for example...

They are acceptable as long as the staff know how to use them and how to hold the glass when pouring. Used that way they're certainly better than staff handling a glass with their dirty fingers on the rim.

Three Pigeons??? I've just added a warning to my review and adjusted the score down. As far as handling glasses with dirty hands go, whether their hands are clean or not won't stop bits of earwax or bogeys falling in. And for how long has the overspill been sitting in the tray attracting fruit flies?

I am so shocked reading this...Tbh, I wish I hadn't clicked on this thread...

Join the club!

...but can one tell by peering over the bar at the pumps?

Last night for my daily - ahem - pint, I found myself leaning over the bar to have a look, but until Quinno pointed this out, I'd never seen the 'Return Tray' emblem before. Quite simply, I will never again set foot in a pub that uses this disgusting method; I can't believe that the discerning cask drinkers of Yorkshire would stand for this.
I'm surprised these things haven't been banned, they are after all selling second-hand beer; it's like scraping food remnants off a plate and serving them up to the next customer.

I now see that on our crawl the following venues all dabble in this dark art:

Ring o' Bells

Victorian Craft Beer Cafe

https://whatpub.com/pubs/HAL/1262/royal-oak-halifax

Kobenhavn which has garnered the following CAMRA citations: Highly Commended in the Pub of the Year competition 2022 and Pub of The Season Autumn 2021; how can CAMRA condone this practice? It's supposed to promote real ale, not stale ale.

[Mobyduck]

(Three Pigeons, Halifax for example),

Now you bloody tell us

They are acceptable as long as the staff know how to use them and how to hold the glass when pouring. Used that way they're certainly better than staff handling a glass with their dirty fingers on the rim.

What's the likelihood of that?

Kobenhavn

Thankfully I had a keg beer here.

[sheffield hatter]

As far as handling glasses with dirty hands go, whether their hands are clean or not won't stop bits of earwax or bogeys falling in. And for how long has the overspill been sitting in the tray attracting fruit flies?

...supposed to promote real ale, not stale ale.

Get over yourself!

The beer goes over the lip of the glass, which is tilted to avoid running over the server's fingers. It then goes through the opening at the bottom of the return tray and is sucked back into the beer engine.

There's no lying around for an hour or two getting stale or attracting fruit flies.

And the only earwax is what gets lobbed over the bar, I would imagine. Is that what you do while waiting to be served?

Camra doesn't promote return trays, it simply identifies pubs that use them, so that people like you can stay clear. Others can decide to visit, based on the knowledge provided by Camra.

[Mobyduck]

Get over yourself!

The beer goes over the lip of the glass, which is tilted to avoid running over the server's fingers. It then goes through the opening at the bottom of the return tray and is sucked back into the beer engine.

There's no lying around for an hour or two getting stale or attracting fruit flies.

And the only earwax is what gets lobbed over the bar, I would imagine. Is that what you do while waiting to be served?

Camra doesn't promote return trays, it simply identifies pubs that use them, so that people like you can stay clear. Others can decide to visit, based on the knowledge provided by Camra.

Don't forget your blood pressure tablets.