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Thread: Turtle Bay - should they be listed?

  1. #31
    I Keep Mine Hidden Delboy20's Avatar
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    Common sense has prevailed and the now legendary "Turtles" are approved!

    Just remember that you don't have to go in them if you don't want to

    On a side note I have never been in a Café Rouge but I might now just to see if they really are as bad as everyone seems to think!
    Last edited by Delboy20; 07-02-2019 at 20:51.


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  2. #32
    Pub researcher (unpaid) rpadam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delboy20 View Post
    On a side note I have never been in a Café Rouge but I might now just to see if they really are as bad as everyone seems to think!
    Don't get your hopes up (but do leave a review)!

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delboy20 View Post
    I have never been in a Café Rouge but I might now just to see if they really are as bad as everyone seems to think!
    Good luck!

    Don't forget to leave a note for the rescue team, in case you're not back within 24 hours.
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  4. #34
    This Space For Hire AlanH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex_Rattus View Post
    I had never heard of Turtle Bays in this context - I thought it was a place in the British Virgin Islands - so thank you all for enhancing my education!

    Personally I'm not very fussed either way really but the minuses are that it can add to the clutter of an area with "non-pubs". How often have you looked at the map of an area and seen lots of green blobs and where closer scrutiny reveals only a couple of what we all would regard as real pubs?
    Dave's Android Real Ale maps cuts down the clutter with only the green blobs being Real Ale, so I ignore the keg red blobs, which takes out most of the Gastro/Restaurant types.
    My theory then is, if some of the Real green blobs are "Gastro" type places, they are more likely to accept drinkers to keep the Real Ale sales moving.
    Last edited by AlanH; 08-02-2019 at 12:55.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ROBCamra View Post
    I think they're a pile of crap as drinking establishments and I personally am not going to be approving them, although others may want to

    However I have been in one in Manchester and there were people drinking cocktails and not eating and I could have had a Red Stripe if I'd have wanted one.

    The same applies to all Café Rouge, Gusto, Frankie & Bennys, Chiquito and all the other crap the "photographers" want putting on the site so they can get another tick on their numbers.
    Another reason for getting rid of all this guff is the length of an area's list and its accuracy. It's a real boon to have access to a publication such as the London Drinker to carry out updates such as a venue's open/closed status as well as name changes. But as so many of these outlets aren't listed in the LD, there's no reasonable way of maintaining an accurate list which just grows longer and becomes ever more tedious to navigate. It also militates against public confidence in the accuracy of out data, IMHO.

  6. #36
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    The trouble with singling out chains is that some of the Harvesters, Toby Carverys and ones tied to a Premier Inn were originally pubs and some are still pubs that do food. I've never baan to a Café Rouge but I assume it is a chain of French based restaurants or a Turtle Bay and judging by the Walthamstow one is a chain of Caribbean Restaurants. I've never been to a Miller & Carter although I'm pretty sure I once had a pint of Directors in the Robin Hood in Epping Forest which gave the name to the roundabout.
    I'll only add a pub (or a club which is another topic) if I'm confident it's a drinking establishment, not a chain restaurant and has something like normal pub hours whatever they are (ie not a night club). I wouldn't like to see brewery taps excluded due to limited opening hours but definitely night clubs where you probably have to pay to get in after a certain time or if you're male.

  7. #37
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    Quite a few Cafés Rouges are former pubs, for example this one used to be the Orleans Arms, the building is still recognisably a pub and it attracts drinkers from the nearby Sandown Park racecourse. This one in Weybridge used to be the Duke of York, although it is less recognisable. Most have keg Stella and some decent bottles and people do go in them just to drink, although I doubt that I would by choice. A lot of Miller & Carters are also in former pubs, and usually retain a proper drinking area, while the same could be said for most Harvesters, Beefeaters, Hungry Horses and the like. The mere presence of a 'family restaurant' does not invalidate the rest of the building.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pangolin View Post
    A lot of Miller & Carters are also in former pubs, and usually retain a proper drinking area, while the same could be said for most Harvesters, Beefeaters, Hungry Horses and the like. The mere presence of a 'family restaurant' does not invalidate the rest of the building.
    Exactly. What's the difference between a Harvester with a "Please wait to be seated" sign sealing off three-quarters of the space and Ye Olde Collarr and Studde with exactly the same arrangement.

    Maybe it's just that the former only sells John Smith's Smooth Crap yet the latter has six pumps of stuff with twigs and bits of beak in it? Far worse than both are places where often the only seating for drinkers is outside.

    If there is a line to be drawn maybe it's at places like Indian and Chinese restaurants which may well have 'bar' or 'lounge' in the title but the reality is a few seats where you can have a quick half while waiting for your takeaway?
    Last edited by NickDavies; 09-02-2019 at 16:23.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickDavies View Post
    If there is a line to be drawn maybe it's at places like Indian and Chinese restaurants which may well have 'bar' or 'lounge' in the title but the reality is a few seats where you can have a quick half while waitng for your takeaway?
    Surely the current guidelines cover this? Presumably you are only offered a drink if you're getting food. There are loads of places that describe themselves as "Bar & Restaurant" or "Lounge and Bar" and I can't tell from the outside if you can go in them and just have a drink. As a result I don't bother adding them and is why I won't be adding the Walthamstow Turtle Bay anytime soon. What's going to happen if the Golden Arches suddenly decide to do booze that can be bought without a meal?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aqualung View Post
    What's going to happen if the Golden Arches suddenly decide to do booze that can be bought without a meal?
    Thankfully (for the sake of this discussion, not in a general sense) we inhabit a culture where any inkling of that will cause a moral outrage and Questions In The House. Remember the hoohah over the JDW at Beaconsfield Services.

    In other parts of the world you'll spot a draught beer tap in all manner of, to us, unlikely places. Recently I found myself in a Spanish hospital cafeteria and enjoyed a very pleasant caña while waiting for someone to be patched up.

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