The relationship between CAMRA and publicans

[Conrad]

Just to do a drive by posting as I am only at the computer for 5 minutes.

It would just be lunacy to suggest that CAMRA has stifled development of English beer, a healthy question is always what more can it do though. I do wonder if promoting pubs to serve a craft beer that they know they can store for a long time where they will never sell enough RA is a good attempt at providing a gateway drug. No axe to grind either way, without a doubt a line has to be drawn somewhere and it more than makes sense that they stick to their definition of RA, but I just found that one an interesting proposition.

I do also feel there is that sniffy element, but I hesitate to bring that up because it runs the danger of taking "Kevin" seriously and I really wouldn't want to tar CAMRA with him.

Edit: Before I get pulled up on it, I very deliberately used past tense in this post, and it was intended that I was using present/future tense in my earlier post.

[Wittenden]

This post:http://edsbeer.blogspot.com/2011/02/....html#comments
throws some light on the vexed question of "craft beer". Ed seems to have views about beer that chime with my own;he's also brewer at Old Dairy,just up the road, so he must be a good egg.

[Quinno]

Sorry, Quinno, but that's nonsense wrong (must mind my manners ). While pubs clearly form the majority of real ale selling venues, it's perfectly possible to buy direct from the brewery and from real ale off-licences - we have both here in Horsham. CAMRA also have their own festivals.

I would suggest that the combined sales from all brewery shops and festivals barely makes a dent in the overall figures. A pub is (usually) open 12-11 most days of the week, 363/4/5/6 says a year. The thrust of my point still stands - pubs are the main (and often only) place for the vast majority of normal punters to buy a good pint of real ale.

[Conrad]

This post:http://edsbeer.blogspot.com/2011/02/....html#comments
throws some light on the vexed question of "craft beer". Ed seems to have views about beer that chime with my own;he's also brewer at Old Dairy,just up the road, so he must be a good egg.

Indeed a good post, and in a similar although tamer vein: HardKnott Dave.

[Quinno]

Indeed a good post, and in a similar although tamer vein: HardKnott Dave.

Best comment I've seen on the whole thing is:

"At least with real ale you know where you stand regardless of what's trendy."

I think, ultimately, that so-called craft brewers are going to have to go head-to-head with mega kegged beers in order to change attitudes towards keg beers in Britain. Simply trying to slip into CAMRA through agitation and then hope to change CAMRA's raison d'etre is, I would think, doomed to fail. (I consider myself a CAMRA 'moderate' and I would resist such moves). Like I said, I'm sure CAMRA could rub along just fine with some form of 'loose coalition' where the craft brewer lot have mobbed together and organised themselves independently but attempting to get CAMRA to change the Real Ale bit to 'nice beer that isn't (insert long-winded disclaimer here)' isn't going to happen in the foreseeable. Collective memories about Double Diamond/Red Barrel/Hoffmesiter are just far too long.

The point that a number of the blog squad seem to forget is that real ale (and the associated battle to revive it) is uniquely British. The Americans can call their beer sector what they like, really.

EDIT: I think that this polemic-free post sums up pretty much what the debate is about.

[Conrad]

Indeed a good post, and in a similar although tamer vein: HardKnott Dave.

Lots of guff...........
EDIT: I think that this polemic-free post sums up pretty much what the debate is about.

I was about to congratulate you on an excellent post that got me thinking till I noticed you had edited to post a link to the article that you had quoted from my post , if I didn't know better I would think you weren't listening to me .

[Quinno]

I was about to congratulate you on an excellent post that got me thinking till I noticed you had edited to post a link to the article that you had quoted from my post , if I didn't know better I would think you weren't listening to me .

LOL, blame the fact that I was posting from work in a (relative) hurry. I'll take the initial compliment, though

EDIT - Tandlemans' take is interesting

[Conrad]

LOL, blame the fact that I was posting from work in a (relative) hurry. I'll take the initial compliment, though

EDIT - Tandlemans' take is interesting

Tandleman is the one who refused to link to PG on the basis that "Pub websites tend not to share CAMRA's aims and aspirations". So I really don't rate his ability to see past his prejudices and research anything. Which is a pity as the piece read quite well.

Going back to the post I like though now that I have 5 minutes to spare, this bit hit a chord:

Like I said, I'm sure CAMRA could rub along just fine with some form of 'loose coalition' where the craft brewer lot have mobbed together and organised themselves independently but attempting to get CAMRA to change the Real Ale bit to 'nice beer that isn't (insert long-winded disclaimer here)' isn't going to happen in the foreseeable. Collective memories about Double Diamond/Red Barrel/Hoffmesiter are just far too long.

I think you are right, it just isn't going to happen (and I had appreciated that even before I read Tandlemans piece that simply reinforced it).

Which left me thinking about the original post referencing Kevin that kicked all this off. It is post that is guilty of all the things that irritate me about CAMRA, it focuses purely on the negative and doesn't really try and draw any positives. Far better if they had just outed Kevin and thrown him to CAMRA bloggers to tear up, thus creating a bit of a positive vibe about their message rather than just trying to butt horns with CAMRA.

[runningdog]

I've stayed out of this thread until now as I hold no brief for CAMRA nor any beef with them either. But I have to admit to a distressing ignorance of the nuances around the term 'craft beer', so I'm seeking enlightenment, in particular in relation to bottled beer.
I drink a lot of the stuff, living where, and how I do, I don't have a lot of choice, it's that or drive around with a constant nervous twitch. Any old how, I like the stuff. Now, I don't keep it in a fridge, my 'stock' lives in a cupbard that remains cool pretty well all the year round. Five minutes ago I capped a bottle of Wickwar's Station Porter, an hour or so ago I did the same with a bottle of Old Peculiar. Both, I find, are very 'moreish', neither carries CAMRA's 'This is real ale' label, both are easily recognizable as being little different from their cask relatives.
So, here's my question, are these craft beers? If the answer is yes, why? and if not, why not?

PS...Adnam's Broadside tastes a 100 times better out of a bottle than from a pump, and it's not just the strength..........

[oldboots]

Craft beer is a fairly meaningless term in this country, it came from the USA where it may mean something but they have a different beer culture as you know. I like this from Oh Good Ale

"In practice the term “craft beer”, in the UK, hardly ever means anything more than “beer I like, made by brewers I like”; on the rare occasions it does mean something more, it seems to mean “beer which is particularly good because it’s ridiculously strong/undrinkably bitter/macerated with raspberries/all of the above”."

Although Pub Curmudgeon might be closer with this

"“Craft beer” is a label given by beer snobs to beer that they feel entitled to be snobbish about."

I say if you like the beer carry on supping and who cares what others call it.

CAMRA encourages brewers to put this "This is Real Ale" on bottle conditioned beers, that is those that are unfiltered/unpasteurized and have some yeast in so there is a secondary fermentation.