Who should decide if a pub stays or goes?

[rpadam]

From the owner's covering letter submitted with the planning application:

"Further to previous correspondence with Mr Simon Withers, I enclose an application for change of use on my property. Currently the Rhydspence is operating as a roadside Inn and I wish to return it to residential use... If change of use were granted, it would be my intention to restore the building to it's original status as a character residence."

However, from the owner's website for the Rhydspence Inn:

"The Rhydspence Inn is, and probably always has been, a hostelry. The building dates from 1380 with extensions built in the 17th and 20th centuries. Regrettably there are no Records or Documents to substantiate any claims, but the style of building, size and location are a clear guide. We are fairly certain that the inn was built to provide comfort for travellers and pilgrims from Abbey Cwmhir to Hereford Cathedral."

Mr Glover's change of tack seems pretty transparent to me...

[Conrad]

Reading that I have to admit it is the bit from the web site that reads like a lie.

Also what has that got to do with it being a viable business? Or is it that you are concerned about the welfare of the travellers and the pilgrims?

[oldboots]

Or is it that you are concerned about the welfare of the travellers and the pilgrims?

I think the point is more about the veracity of the person supplying the "evidence"

[rpadam]

I think the point is more about the veracity of the person supplying the "evidence"

Quite!

[Conrad]

And my point is its called marketing. It wouldn't surprise me if the owner of the pub had never read that idiot blurb that was on the web site.

And even if they have I think it just illustrates the fact that they know a bit about selling. Terms like "there are no Records or Documents to substantiate any claims" roughly translate as this is a complete load of b*llshit I have made up for the tourists who want to be sold to.

Or do you really buy your bread from Marks & Spencers because it isn't just bread?

Edit: In fact, thinking about it if anything that demonstrates he has made a go of his business, why have a web site let alone one that sounds like it is trying to sell if you are trying to run a business into the ground?

[rpadam]

Terms like "there are no Records or Documents to substantiate any claims" roughly translate as this is a complete load of b*llshit I have made up for the tourists who want to be sold to.

And, equally, my point is that the viability issue might roughly translate as this is a complete load of b*llshit I have made up for the planners so that I can convert my unique and historic inn and sell it as a fancy millionaire's residence for a fat profit!

[Conrad]

And, equally, my point is that the viability issue might roughly translate as this is a complete load of b*llshit I have made up for the planners so that I can convert my unique and historic inn and sell it as a fancy millionaire's residence for a fat profit!

It might be, CAMRA are saying it is and telling me that I should complain and haven't even managed to provide marketing bullshit to justify their claims.

[oldboots]

This document is the test that CAMRA (should) apply in these cases, whither Herefordshire did in this case we don't know but it would be silly of them not to have before raising a planning objection or going into print.

[Conrad]

I think my disdain for that document can be summed up by asking why they haven't asked how long a piece of string is? I did only glance over it though so I might of missed the bit where they define at what point viability is arrived at.

Regardless though, the questions asked in it are perfectly valid, and have nothing to do with my issue.

If I walk up to you, point at someone and tell you to punch them, are you right to punch them? Whilst CAMRA may have perfectly valid reasons for thinking that pub is viable maybe they should try sharing them?

[oldboots]

If I walk up to you, point at someone and tell you to punch them, are you right to punch them?

I don't think you analogy reflects this situation at all, the invitation to object was sent to a CAMRA forum specifically about campaigning against pub closures and presumably read by people who share the aims of CAMRA and didn't just join for the Wetherspoons vouchers. It is not about being told to commit some random act but an invitation to exercise your right to object to something if you feel it is wrong. A better analogy might be if I pointed out some antisocial behaviour and asked you to phone the police.