More Sheffield corrections and new sub-districts

[sheffield hatter]

A few more Sheffield corrections and suggestions for you:

The Scarborough, Addy Street should be spelt without the first 'O', thus: Scarbrough. This is inconsistent with the seaside resort of similar name, but the inn sign is quite clear on this point. (There's also a plaque on the end of the building showing that it was the “Scarbro Hotel” when constructed in 1867. I'll try to get a better picture showing this – it was nearly dark the other day and my camera didn't focus properly.)

The Bell Hagg (newly added today) and The Sportsman, 57 Benty Lane, S10 5NF should both be in the Crosspool sub-district.

The Rivelin Hotel, Tofts Lane and the New Norfolk Arms, Manchester Road are both in the outskirts of Sheffield: a new sub-district of Rivelin Valley would probably be appropriate.

The New Norfolk Arms is a bit of a puzzle: there used to be a pub of this name on Manchester Road but it has been closed for some years and is now a private house. However, the postcode S6 5SJ in Pubs Galore is not recognised by Royal Mail, and on Google maps it defaults to S6 6SJ as the nearest available option (though this is, perhaps coincidentally, the postcode for the Nags Head in the next valley). There are a few houses further up Manchester Road with the post code S6 6GH; however, the old Rivelin Bridge post office (which used to be at the junction of Manchester Road and Rivelin Valley Road and forms part of the address for the New Norfolk Arms in Pubs Galore) is also closed and is unknown to both Google maps & Royal Mail. I suggest changing the postcode of New Norfolk Arms to S6 6GH and moving the pub (now closed) into the Rivelin Valley area.

The Admiral Rodney and the Wisewood are also on the outskirts of Sheffield, in the village or suburb of Wisewood. Please create a new sub-district for them.

The Freemasons Arms, 383 Walkley Lane should be in the Hillsborough sub-district, as should The Queens Ground, 401 Langsett Road and The Rawson Spring, also Langsett Road.

Nearer to the centre of Sheffield, the sub-districts can get a little confusing. For example, although it is clear that the Scarbrough Arms, the Office, the White Rails, and the Upperthorpe Hotel are in Upperthorpe, and White Hart, Boomerang and Star and Garter are in Netherthorpe, it is not clear what (if any) district the George IV and the Hillsborough Hotel should be in, although they are both farther out from the city centre than the aforementioned seven pubs. (The Hillsborough Hotel, by the way, is definitely not in Hillsborough.) Perhaps it would be best to create new Upper- and Netherthorpe sub-districts for these seven and leave the others as just Sheffield until someone suggests a better idea.

More straightforwardly, the Nottingham House is just down the road from the other Broomhill pubs, so should be moved into that sub-district.

The Fulwood, The Ranmoor and the Bulls Head, 396 Fulwood Road are in the Ranmoor area of Sheffield, which should have its own sub-district too. The Rising Sun, 471 Fulwood Road is arguably in Fulwood, but until someone does argue the point I suggest you stick that in Ranmoor too.

Cheers

[Conrad]

Hi sheffield hatter,

We have corrected the name of The Scarbrough Arms. Moved the Bell Hagg Inn and The Sportsman to Crosspool. Looking on the map I can't see any indication of a Rivelin Valley being an area, so I have not created that one for now. As there was no information on The New Norfolk Arms I just deleted it. The Wisewood Inn and The Admiral Rodney have been moved to Wisewood. The Freemasons Arms, The Queens Ground and The Rawson Spring has been moved to Hillsborough.

At this point I have stopped for a break as I am getting a little confused by it all to be honest.

[Conrad]

Actually put all sub-district changes on hold for now. We are working on changes to the system to try and make them work better.

[sheffield hatter]

Conrad,

Sorry for causing you to blow a fuse! I can appreciate your difficulty with districts - to an outsider it must be incredibly difficult to get an idea of what a city the size of Sheffield is like on the ground. Your point about users looking for a pub in Rivelin Valley (not!) is well taken. However, there does need to be some way of differentiating between pubs that are in the city and pubs that are in outlying areas, so I look forward to seeing your new system.

Cheers

[Conrad]

Yeah, sorry Sheffield, back off a week off and you are quite right I blew a fuse, don't think your work isn't appreciated though.

I was looking through your suggestions it and the old rule we used to use is if the place isn't written on either Google Maps or Bing Maps we don't add it, and if it is clearly in city limits we don't add it. So for me Wisewood fails on both those counts (Rivelin Valley only failed on the written on map count). So I was about to reject Wisewood, but noticed we had Hillsborough which also shouldn't be there. Then going further into it the closer districts you suggest really are Sheffield. None of that detracts from the fact that they are also in the areas you state though.

Anyway a brief explanation of where we are going is here, when I have completed that there is no reason we can't have any places that people want to suggest it will only further correct the system. Whereas as it now is it is just a matter of balancing which answer is 'more' correct which is a mad errand and wildly time consuming as me and Dave try and double guess people like you who actually know the area unlike myself.

[sheffield hatter]

Conrad,

Thanks for the response. I can appreciate the difficulty, though I'm not sure I've quite got my head around your proposed solution yet! There will always be differences between what cartographers record and what locals see.

A similar, if different, geographical problem occurred when I was constructing my Welland Valley pub crawl, which takes in pubs in Northants (Corby), Leics (Market Harborough) and Rutland (Oakham). The fact that none of the pubs are actually anywhere near their "official" post towns, and that they are in different counties, clashes horrendously with the indubitable fact that they are within a stone's throw of each other (ok, a bus ride, but you get my point)!

There may be no (reasonable) solution to either of these, and I don't for one minute suggest that you should spend any time thinking abbout them, I just throw them up for general discussion.

Cheers

[Conrad]

The change should actually make little difference in many respects, all the places currently defined will remain and the places will still show all the pubs they currently do (with the exception of postal towns). The major changes will be that me and Dave won't worry anymore about whether a placename is appropriate to list the pub (which we frequently do as in the case of Rivelin Valley). And that we can just take into account the overlaps of areas, so in another recent example we will be able to show pubs as both Hanley and Stoke City Centre which is currently beyond us.

As to the location issues you describe I think they are best overcome by using the local pubs list on a pub or the map view of the pub, I don't think place headings will ever solve those.