Micro-breweries and 'ticking' culture: Counter-productive regarding real choice?

[gillhalfpint]

I agree so much with what you have just said, there are far too many much of the sameness golden beers around now, and also about the publication of so many beers by a brewery in the GBG then say in the writeup "usually only found in the pub". The one I'm thinking of had a core list of over 20 ales, but you had to go into Wales for them, but thankfully 2011 GBG has not published the list like they have done in previous years.

I think there is a machine with allsorts of flavourings in, and the brewer just pushes a button to add what a pub preferred for their customers, a touch of vanilla, ginger, fruit or whatever. I often think there is one beer that does the rounds in this way. (Cornish brewery's spring to mind where many pubs have a house brew).

I was aware in the Vat & Fiddle in Nottingham that even though there were beers I had not had on the bar, once I got started on the Castle Rock Screech Owl I stayed with it, purely because I was enjoying it so much, but it did cross my mind that it was something I rarely do in the ticker orientated market. Yes there is a place for a local pub with one or two regular proven known beers such as Landlord, plus a couple or more of guests to give variety.

I don't have a local that I can wander round to and enjoy an evening drinking in company I know, and have always regarded the Wellington as my local, but it is rare to drink 2 of the same in there. It is not a local in the true sense of the word as I don't get to see the same folk in there when I go, but others doing exactly the same as I am - checking the screen and clips for new beers.

Good thread this one as it does make me think about breweries and beers - how odd is that!

[Thuck Phat]

A fascinating thread with some interesting points being made.

I agree with A&H that this debate is indicative of the health of the real ale market and we ought to bear in mind that this is very high quality problem to have compared to those issues facing the real ale drinker over previous decades.

Two points resonate with me:

Firstly, I think that ultimately a microbrewer has to brew beers that people want to drink and are reasonably marketed (or no-one will get the chance to drink them) in order to survive and flourish. The balance shifts towards a marketing emphasis when considering national brewers, Wells Bomber springs to mind. Our behaviour as consumers will clearly affect the success of that beer, so for example if you go the pure ticker route then you may well not have an extra pint or two of the beer you really like but will move on to try new ales. I suspect that the majority don't take this extreme view and, like me, get quaffing on finding a beer that suits but this is probably the nub of the debate. To this end, the market ultimately decides and the new microbrewer may get a shot at selling bland beers initially but ultimately has to brew quality ales and market them well. Joy for us consumers.

Secondly, I agree with the point about the importance of ale selection by landlords, which is clearly influenced to a degree by how well the microbrewers market their beers as well as the landlord trying to sell what works best with his customer base. Unfortunately many do seem to get this wrong with limited styles and strengths across a reasonable number of handpumps. It's difficult for us, if we're infrequent visitors, to carp as the landlord may be aiming to the market he knows best. Nonethless, as Mr Fastard says, it's always worth pointing this out in a review as subsequent visitors are then forewarned.

I suspect that all I've done there is rehash the previous arguments but I feel better for it.

[Brewguru]

I could rant on this subject all day, but will try to keep it short.
The truth is there are more Real Ale Breweries in the UK then any time in generations, and accordingly a wider choice of beers. Inevitably there are going to be good breweries and bad ones, good beers and bad beers. It doesn't matter what size the brewery is - Thornbridge started small and made excellent beers almost from the off. Other breweries are not so fortunate and there is the problem. To make a good beer needs more than a good recipe, it needs skill, care and sound judgement. Brewing is an art with a bucket full of science thrown in for good measure.
Hence bad brewers will not have well balanced recipes, poor hygiene and over or under conditioned beer. They soon get found out.
Bigger brewers are also not immune to mistakes - Marstons really messed up Ringwood for a good few months when they took over but have now sorted it out. They have tried and tested recipes and procedures as would be expected in a more corporate setting. Trouble is, they cannot do anything too radical - it takes a lot to produce something new with marketing etc to launch a new brand and low risk is their strategy in general.
The other side of the coin is pubs, having 6 hand pulls with 2 beers off tells me that there are too many on in that pub. A beer that has been on the bar more than 3 days is starting to lose any aroma and finer hop flavours as it oxidises, which is where blandness creeps in. I do agree that a pub needs to offer at least one every day (national or regional brewer) style beer, not everyone is up for experimentation!
To sum up my feelings, get a feel for what the micro is like in terms of quality, bear in mind the quality of the pub and weigh it up. I avoid some breweries as I know they are not to my liking, but I will always go back to them at some point to check my opinion is still sound.

[NickDavies]

I think we all agree that many pubs could do better in providing an interesting choice of ales. My experience (and others may wish to differ) is that owner-managed freehouses tend to get it right - they're likely to have an old favourite or two, via whoever they get their lager and Guinness from and, if they're enthusiasts, a decent and ever changing choice of guests. Pub chains are less reliable, and even JDW branches are perfectly capable of putting up half a dozen citric golden ales or six dark soupy beers all well over 5% abv. I think in a lot of these places it's down to area managers who don't really care about anything beyond Head Office box ticking, and if they can tick the 'Real Ale Sold' box along with 'Cask Mark' and 'LocAle' that's some handy plus points at staff appraisal time.

[Eddie86]

I have to admit it gets on my wick that small brewers with a brewing capacity of about two polypins claim to make a range of different ales as well as seasonals and specials. Our local CAMRA branch has a beef about the room all these so-called core brews take up in the GBG, space that ought to be devoted to pubs selling the stuff. I think a lot of this culture has to do with appealing to tickers and the naturally curious. Using unusual or themed names is a micro breweries attempt to differentiate their products from any other microbrewery, especially if they haven't been around very long, ordinary sounding X's Bitter or Y's Stout don't stand out from the crowd, fancy pump clips is another method used of course. The names sometimes stick, which I suppose means the marketing has worked, for example Cottage are always associated in my mind with any railway themed name even if they didn't brew it.
Another thing, as others have already said, is an unbalanced bar, I don't really want to see 6-8 handpumps all selling golden ales at between 3.8 and 4.5%, I want a bit of choice, there are times when I just long for a boring brown bitter to break the monotony.

I was quite disappointed in a well-recommended pub that I visited yesterday. With the long public transport journey and chill autumn air putting me in the mood for a dark, warming beer of some description, I was upset to find that they had no dark beers out of the 6 ales and 8 kegs on offer.

I was even more upset to then find this 'freehouse' had 5 beers from the same brewery out of the 6 on offer. The descriptions on the clips were:

India Pale Ale
Pacific Pale Ale
New World Pale Ale
Traditional Bitter
and another Pale Ale

Now the brewery has won numerous awards for it's IPA, but as it was midday I tried 3 of the others from this brewery. They all tasted bland and slightly hoppy - just different hop flavours in each. I felt let down by a respected brewery and a respected freehouse.

[Eddie86]

I could rant on this subject all day, but will try to keep it short.
The truth is there are more Real Ale Breweries in the UK then any time in generations, and accordingly a wider choice of beers. Inevitably there are going to be good breweries and bad ones, good beers and bad beers. It doesn't matter what size the brewery is - Thornbridge started small and made excellent beers almost from the off. Other breweries are not so fortunate and there is the problem. To make a good beer needs more than a good recipe, it needs skill, care and sound judgement. Brewing is an art with a bucket full of science thrown in for good measure.
Hence bad brewers will not have well balanced recipes, poor hygiene and over or under conditioned beer. They soon get found out.
Bigger brewers are also not immune to mistakes - Marstons really messed up Ringwood for a good few months when they took over but have now sorted it out. They have tried and tested recipes and procedures as would be expected in a more corporate setting. Trouble is, they cannot do anything too radical - it takes a lot to produce something new with marketing etc to launch a new brand and low risk is their strategy in general.
The other side of the coin is pubs, having 6 hand pulls with 2 beers off tells me that there are too many on in that pub. A beer that has been on the bar more than 3 days is starting to lose any aroma and finer hop flavours as it oxidises, which is where blandness creeps in. I do agree that a pub needs to offer at least one every day (national or regional brewer) style beer, not everyone is up for experimentation!
To sum up my feelings, get a feel for what the micro is like in terms of quality, bear in mind the quality of the pub and weigh it up. I avoid some breweries as I know they are not to my liking, but I will always go back to them at some point to check my opinion is still sound.

The 3 days for an ale is a myth. Safe then sorry being the thought. But over winter I've had to hard peg an ale to keep it well and was happy to drink a 10-day old ale when we were shut. Different beers react differently to contact with the air, but by knowing what your doing and really looking after your beers, they can last longer than three days. The irony of this is, the better you keep your beer, the quicker they sell.

I'd also rather see a bar with 6 handpumps sell only 2 ales and have 4 off, as it shows the landlord is not willing to compromise quality for choice. As for choice of styles, a good pub will always have different styles. A poor pub won't pay that much attention to what the guest ales are - as long as they're differently named

[Oggwyn Trench]

It as already been said that the choice of real ale on offer is the sign of a healthy market for the product , it was not that long ago when we would bypass a dozen pubs to get to the one with its solitary handpump selling Tetley , Bass or similar. I am pretty lucky my locals have a couple of permant ales on, for those who dont want to experiment with the 6/8 guests (theres always a Mild and Stout on for variety)
I do like the Golden ales but a nice Amber beer is always a nice change as is a mild or stout .

Not all bad brewers are found out , i know one who is now working at his fifth brewery(1 closed by Greenhalls , 3 went bust) in 25 years of trying his beers i have had only had one that was any good

[PaulOfHorsham]

Another point I'll throw in is that you may find yourself enjoying an ale you've not seen before. Trouble is, once you leave the pub, you may never see it again! It's just another special. Can't help thinking that some of the micros still regard their 'business' as little more than a hobby for their own amusement.

[Wittenden]

An interesting thread, with many useful points. I don't often go to a multi hand pump permanent beer fest type pub-they don't seem to be particularily frequent in this part of Kent, and if I do, I tend to worry about through put and stale beer! Related to this, I also wonder how long some more geographically exotic ales have been in the tender mercies of the wholesaler.
It is wonderful to see so many new breweries-this puts the 88 independants listed in Frank Baillie's Beer Drinker's Companion into perspective, but I think we have to accept that a fair proprtion are the products of hope rather than experience, and with all the good will in the world, are unlikely to progress from paying? hobby to sustainable and sucessful business.
I'm always ready to try a new beer from a new brewery, but as A&H said, too many are too similar.I can see the temptation for an enthusiastic brewer to want to produce a wide portfolio, but sometimes its good to concentrate on a limited but excellent range.A local example that springs to mind is Goachers of Tovil. They've been around for several years now, but their range is narrow-a mild, a fine light, a best dark, and a cuople of strong'uns, which unfortunately I've never seen. Of the beers I've tried recently, they've all been spot on.
Given the choice, on beer terms, between the Rake and the Market Porter, I'd go for the Rake, though I do have issues with the uber trendy clientel!

[Andy Ven]

I would rather see a small/medium local brewer offer 2 or 3 ales that they are good at than either a national brewer offering something brewed for the mass market or a smaller entity trying too hard by offering too many below average ales. I'm with Soup in that I would rather go for the tried and trusted Bathams, Sarah Hughes, Old Swan, Black Country, Hobsons's, HIGHGATE etc. for that reason

I've been in the Windsor Castle in Lye several times this year (strangely not in the GBG 2011) and I can never work out what's what (probably because I could never get near to the handpulls for bar hoggers) so I ended up being slightly underwhelmed with what I ended up with.

....and another thing. The Wellington in Birmingham at least gives you an idea of what you're ordering by displaying the name, ABV and colour (A - E, albeit a little bit subjectively) of both its regular and ever-changing ales on the board, something I find very useful - I wish other pubs, including JDW, would do the same because the bar staff often don't have a clue