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Thread: Turtle Bay - should they be listed?

  1. #11
    This Space For Hire Delboy20's Avatar
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    You tell me

    In my book if I can go in for a beer it can be listed on here.

    Is a bottle shop / off licence with a tiny counter selling beer a pub?


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  2. #12
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    I had never heard of Turtle Bays in this context - I thought it was a place in the British Virgin Islands - so thank you all for enhancing my education!

    Personally I'm not very fussed either way really but the minuses are that it creates extra work for the dwarves, and can add to the clutter of an area with "non-pubs". How often have you looked at the map of an area and seen lots of green blobs and where closer scrutiny reveals only a couple of what we all would regard as real pubs? My only real experience is with the Miller & Carter branding, where my local one is still very much a pub, with a fairly large area - say the size of an average saloon bar - plus the historic Dick Turpin bar, which is available to those just wanting a drink. Like always, we don't really have any hard and fast rules on this. I guess we'll have this debate again in a year or two.

  3. #13
    This Space For Hire Delboy20's Avatar
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    I take your point regarding the Green blobs but surely the more blobs the better!
    I am quite happy to decide which blobs I visit but I would rather have that choice.


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  4. #14
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    What I enjoy most about visiting pubs (apart from the beer of course) is the infinite variety, from ancient stone-built country inns to high tech city bars, and from the exceptional to the execrable. I think it would be very wrong to exclude any category because they don't conform to an ideal, and there will always be grey areas around any definition wherever you try to draw the line.

    I have no great problem with listing Turtle Bay-type establishments where people do genuinely go for a drink by choice (no accounting for taste). I would suggest that it is more useful to have questionable ones listed, with suitable comments so that you know how useful they are to the average drinker and can make your own decision about whether you wish to patronise them or not.
    On leaving the bar, I felt a strong blow to the back of my head. Turning round, I discovered it was the pavement

  5. #15
    Please give generously Quinno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delboy20 View Post
    So glad I have opened up this debate again!!
    I am the one that has added the "glut" of Turtle Bays. 7 to be exact..
    Just to be clear, I wasn't having a pop at you personally - I did wonder whether to say it was you in the original post, but thought that really would sound like I was having a go!

    But it is something I think we need to sort out once and for all, as the conversation/debate has happened many times without any real resolution. And as more of these places appear, the issue just gets bigger and more vexed. Ultimately the decision lies with Snow White, but the following comment is very prescient;

    Quote Originally Posted by Rex_Rattus View Post
    the minuses are that it creates extra work for the dwarves, and can add to the clutter of an area with "non-pubs".
    Perhaps it's time to run some polls to establish where the line is, and then Snow White can make a decision based on that in March at the get-together. A compromise could be that there is a filter to switch off pubs with a new 'restaurant' label maybe...but that's a Snow White job of course, which may well not be practical for whatever reasons (and I can already hear cries from those who have other site enhancements they'd wish to see...)

    Give me a couple of hours and I'll try and put up a poll (or polls) and we'll see what we get.
    Last edited by Quinno; 06-02-2019 at 20:06.

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    I don't think such institutions should be listed and regret adding the few that I did early on as the website is called Pubs Galore not Bars Galore.

    Mind you, I'm not sure places such as The Oak W12 qualify as a pub anymore. Yes, you can get foreign lager but you can only sit at the bar or outside in the cold. I may as well buy a can and stand on the pavement next to the patio for all the similarity.

  7. #17
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    Oh dear. If you go in a Turtle Bay at a mealtime you can sit down at a table with a pint of Stripe and pay up and leave if that's what you want to do. If you go in the ancient stone-built Red Lion at a mealtime you can buy a pint of Old Snot Gobbler but will have to stand in the rain to drink it because all the tables are reserved.

    I know what I'd rather do. I've never liked drinking, or indeed eating, standing up.

    Which should exist on PG?
    Last edited by NickDavies; 06-02-2019 at 20:18.

  8. #18
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    You’re never going to satisfy everybody. My view has always been that if it’s wet led and has at least one “thing” on tap, then it warrants inclusion. So that would exclude Cafe Rouge and other places that are basically restaurants, but I have included the odd cocktail bar and such like as long as you can still get a pint of something in there. On the other hand, that won’t be real ale, and some places that are basically restaurants might well have a greater range on tap and may even include a real ale or two, so even my own argument doesn’t stack up!

    And then there is what may be considered a proper pub, but has every table reserved for diners, The Castle Inn being a recent case in point, although there have certainly been others.

    How about instead of all green blobs on the map, we have different colours depending on whether it’s a “real” pub or not. Should keep Dave busy for a bit.

  9. #19
    Administrator Dave M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinno View Post
    Simple question - a glut of Turtle Bays have been put in the queue to add to the site. Should they be added?

    I have never been in one, but I certainly have never heard them being referred to as a drinking venue before.
    I've been in the Bristol one twice, both times to drink and not eat. As far as I could tell the right hand side was devoted more to diners and the left to drinkers. There were far more drinkers than diners from what I saw.

    Pretty much everyone was drinking cocktails and I get the impression the drink range didn't go much beyond that but for me still a clear cut drinking establishment. Unlike F&Bs, Cafe Rouge that probably shouldn't be on here and I do regret approving the first few of those.

    So difficult to define difference between pub and restaurant though. For example, if you enter and are greeted by waiting staff who take you to a table and give you food menus it is probably a restaurant even if you can just stay for drinks, however I've been to new build Marstons & GK pubs (as OB mentions) that are exactly like that and so it all becomes very blurred.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quinno View Post
    A compromise could be that there is a filter to switch off pubs with a new 'restaurant' label maybe...but that's a Snow White job of course, which may well not be practical for whatever reasons (and I can already hear cries from those who have other site enhancements they'd wish to see...)
    This has been suggested to me more than once before at crawls. I guess the question is would it satisfy people? In theory it wouldn't be too difficult, but we would then have the problem of defining which places get the restaurant tag...

  10. #20
    Please give generously Quinno's Avatar
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    Poll is up - http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showt...-main-listings

    And yes I just realised I missed Frankie & Benny's off (file under Cafe Rouge??)

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