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Thread: PG Top 100 rated pubs

  1. #21
    Pub researcher (unpaid) rpadam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave M View Post
    I've fixed my initial mistakes and the list has changed a fair bit.
    Not sure what you’ve done with the algorithm, but from going out to sample the mixed delights of Moxley and two previously unvisited pubs in Bradley my percentage has shot up from 21% to 44% as some previous ‘No’s have changed to ‘Yes’s.

  2. #22
    Administrator Dave M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tris39 View Post
    Is there not a small problem with the evolution of a pub?
    It is a big problem and one of the reasons to resist making lists like this, or at least taking them too seriously.

    One the suggestions Quinno makes is to reduce the relevance of ratings over time which would help with this issue. Once I work out how to actually do that I'll give it a go and see what sort of a list we end up with.

  3. #23
    This Space For Hire sheffield hatter's Avatar
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    Like the idea (haven't looked at the list yet, so don't know if I'll like the results).

    I agree with what Quinno and Tris said about older reviews, so it would be good if some sort of weighting for age (of review rather than reviewer, obviously) could be incorporated. (Edit: We appear to have been typing simultaneously.)

    Slightly concerned about the maths failure.
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  4. #24
    Please give generously Quinno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tris39 View Post
    Hello Dave. You're looking well today.

    Is there not a small problem with the evolution of a pub? Sometimes a pub's name changes but is otherwise the same, some pubs retain the same name but over time alter beyond recognition. The problem is that ratings don't always reflect the pub as it stands: a much loved boozer from 2008 is now a stripped out gastropub. Conversely, the awful theme pub serving Fosters is now a beautifully restored Victorian beauty - the rating a reviewer gave ten years ago may have no bearing on their verdict ten years on. If the https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/23788/ had been reviewed ten years ago it would have been condemned, now it's almost universally praised yet the old ratings - if there were any - would still apply.
    Hence my suggestion of weighting reviews by age, with a diminishing weight rate applied by year. There's never a perfect way of doing it though.

  5. #25
    Humble Wordsmith ETA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tris39 View Post
    Hello Dave. You're looking well today.

    Is there not a small problem with the evolution of a pub? Sometimes a pub's name changes but is otherwise the same, some pubs retain the same name but over time alter beyond recognition. The problem is that ratings don't always reflect the pub as it stands: a much loved boozer from 2008 is now a stripped out gastropub. Conversely, the awful theme pub serving Fosters is now a beautifully restored Victorian beauty - the rating a reviewer gave ten years ago may have no bearing on their verdict ten years on. If the https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/23788/ had been reviewed ten years ago it would have been condemned, now it's almost universally praised yet the old ratings - if there were any - would still apply.
    Perhaps restricting the reviews rated/considered to the last 10 reviews or the last 5 years, and resetting the tally to 0 if the pub closes and re-opens or the Type changes?
    'Beer is for all day, not just for breakfast'.

  6. #26
    This Space For Hire sheffield hatter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tris39 View Post
    Is there not a small problem with the evolution of a pub?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave M View Post
    It is a big problem and one of the reasons to resist making lists like this, or at least taking them too seriously.
    Quote Originally Posted by Quinno View Post
    Hence my suggestion of weighting reviews by age, with a diminishing weight rate applied by year. There's never a perfect way of doing it though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave M View Post
    Once I work out how to actually do that I'll give it a go and see what sort of a list we end up with.
    A couple of examples: Swan & Rushes has not been reviewed for four years, and I think I have read somewhere that it is now a pale shadow of its former self; The Leopold has been mentioned in the context of the March 2019 visit to Portsmouth & Southsea - the last review in its pomp is 30 months old but two more recent reviews, reporting the closure and change of style, are without scores so presumably have no effect. These pubs are currently 82 and 89 respectively. (This is not meant as mere carping, just examples of the problem - and hopefully you'll get an idea of a fix from this.)
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  7. #27
    I'll stay on me own
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinno View Post
    Hence my suggestion of weighting reviews by age, with a diminishing weight rate applied by year. There's never a perfect way of doing it though.
    Indeed.

    I also think that, as suggested earlier, a reviewer's rating shouldn't apply unless they have submitted a minimum number of reviews to help rule out 'spikes' in the ratings due to a person's personal grievance (which if they are a publican/manager) could have been submitted to discredit competition, or boost the rating of their own venture. You'd need to discount a fair number (say their first 10), just in case the reviewer manages a pubco chain. Won't stop Tim Martin though...

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    This Space For Hire sheffield hatter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackthorn View Post
    A bit annoying too that I only photographed no. 71 a few weeks ago, and would have made the effort to stop if I’d known it was a “top 100” and had planned on going in no. 88 last week but abandoned the idea due to the very inclement weather. Again, would have made more of an effort if I’d known.
    Interesting! There's a danger, is there not, of reviewers making special trips to "Top 100" pubs, which would then tend to reinforce the pubs' places in that top 100, thus making it more and more difficult for improving or newly discovered pubs to make their way up the list.

    Probably best not to take the whole thing too seriously, as Dave has already mentioned.
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  9. #29
    Pub researcher (unpaid) rpadam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpadam View Post
    Not sure what you’ve done with the algorithm, but from going out to sample the mixed delights of Moxley and two previously unvisited pubs in Bradley my percentage has shot up from 21% to 44% as some previous ‘No’s have changed to ‘Yes’s.
    The algorithm is still missing some visited pubs, having now found another nine ‘No’s that should be ‘Yes’s...

  10. #30
    Waterborne Beer Inspector Bucking Fastard's Avatar
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    I think this is a great idea,and I look forward to future tweaks.

    When in an area that I'm not familiar ,I may well be tempted to visit a pub that appears on this list to see what all the fuss is about.

    It's all a bit of fun,but with many very knowledgeable reviewers on PuG it's a list that should have a lot more credibility that the ones we normally comment on.
    "Good people drink good beer" Hunter S Thompson

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