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Thread: Pubco. mergers.

  1. #21
    Pub researcher (unpaid) rpadam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hondo View Post
    This report quantifies Stonegate's estate as 665, rather than 800...

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    Waterborne Beer Inspector Bucking Fastard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpadam View Post
    This report quantifies Stonegate's estate as 665, rather than 800...
    Fair point.I took the 703 figure in this article and then assumed that they would also complete the Revolutions deal taking them to 771.I'll keep an eye on developments,but they do seem to be hoovering up pubs and bars at quite a rate.
    "Good people drink good beer" Hunter S Thompson

  3. #23
    Pub researcher (unpaid) rpadam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucking Fastard View Post
    That's interesting.

    Seems to me there is a Big Nine in the Pubco world after some recent transactions,figures from a quick trawl around wiki.

    1. Ei Group (formerly Enterprise ) -- 5000 pubs approx
    2. Greene King -- 3000
    3 Heineken ( Star ) -- 3000
    4. Mitchell & Butler -- 1800
    5.Marstons -- 1700
    6 Patron (ex Punch) -- 1300
    7.Wetherspoons -- 900
    8. Stonegate -- 800 (assuming Revolutions Bars deal closes )
    9. Admiral -- 800

    I make that a total of 18,300 pubs,37% of the market.

    Is anyone aware of something I've missed ,or gross inaccuracy in these figures ?
    From 'London Drinker' (August/September 2017):

    "M&B have sold 73 pubs - 65 freeholds and eight leaseholds - to a property investment group called Aprirose for £40 million. According to a report in the Times, these will form a new chain called Milton Pubs and Taverns along with 35 sites they already own. This makes Aprirose, who I admit I had never heard of, the 11th largest pub group in the country."

    However, the "11th largest pub group in the country" claim must be way out.
    Last edited by rpadam; 16-09-2017 at 17:13.

  4. #24
    Pub researcher (unpaid) rpadam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucking Fastard View Post
    That's interesting.

    Seems to me there is a Big Nine in the Pubco world after some recent transactions,figures from a quick trawl around wiki.

    1. Ei Group (formerly Enterprise ) -- 5000 pubs approx
    2. Greene King -- 3000
    3 Heineken ( Star ) -- 3000
    4. Mitchell & Butler -- 1800
    5.Marstons -- 1700
    6 Patron (ex Punch) -- 1300
    7.Wetherspoons -- 900
    8. Stonegate -- 800 (assuming Revolutions Bars deal closes )
    9. Admiral -- 800

    I make that a total of 18,300 pubs,37% of the market.

    Is anyone aware of something I've missed ,or gross inaccuracy in these figures ?
    I've just read in another Camra newsletter that Hawthorne Leisure have 255 pubs.

  5. #25
    Please give generously Quinno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpadam View Post
    I've just read in another Camra newsletter that Hawthorne Leisure have 255 pubs.
    which will diminish by the month as they flog them off...

  6. #26
    Waterborne Beer Inspector Bucking Fastard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpadam View Post
    From 'London Drinker' (August/September 2017):

    "M&B have sold 73 pubs - 65 freeholds and eight leaseholds - to a property investment group called Aprirose for £40 million. According to a report in the Times, these will form a new chain called Milton Pubs and Taverns along with 35 sites they already own. This makes Aprirose, who I admit I had never heard of, the 11th largest pub group in the country."

    However, the "11th largest pub group in the country" claim must be way out.

    It seems to me the second division of pub ownership groups have less than 500 pubs,probably due to 2016 legislation for groups larger than this.Thanks for contributions from Dave M and Aqualung.


    Trust Inns -- 500
    Fullers -- 360
    Shepherd Neame -- 350
    New River Retail -- 344
    Robinsons --280
    Thwaites -- 275
    Brains -- 270
    Wadworth --240
    Hawthorn -- 225
    Youngs -- 220
    Charles Wells -- 200
    Sam Smiths -- 200


    There is quite a gap between this group and Admiral at the bottom of the big league. Again apologies if I have missed some obvious names.
    Last edited by Bucking Fastard; 19-09-2017 at 18:34. Reason: Thanks to rpadam for more info.
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  7. #27
    This Space For Hire Aqualung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucking Fastard View Post
    Again apologies if I have missed some obvious names.
    Shepherd Neame and Thwaites are in this category. Hal & Woodhouse) have only 190, I would have guessed over 200.
    Even in early CAMRA days Sheps were larger than the other Southern independents but now they are roughly the same as Fullers. Fullers however now have some big pubs.

  8. #28
    Waterborne Beer Inspector Bucking Fastard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aqualung View Post
    Shepherd Neame and Thwaites are in this category. Hal & Woodhouse) have only 190, I would have guessed over 200.
    Even in early CAMRA days Sheps were larger than the other Southern independents but now they are roughly the same as Fullers. Fullers however now have some big pubs.
    Thanks for the correction,I've made an edit on the second division.
    "Good people drink good beer" Hunter S Thompson

  9. #29
    Administrator Dave M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucking Fastard View Post
    It seems to me the second division of pub ownership groups have between 200 and 360 pubs ,namely Fullers,Robinsons,Brains,Hawthorn,Youngs and Charles Wells.There is quite a gap between this group and Admiral at the bottom of the big league. Again apologies if I have missed some obvious names.
    Of course it is worth noting that the relatively new pub code has stricter rules for pubcos with over 500 tenants.

    So for example Trust Inns appear to have an estate of between 4-500 and I sense that they are happy to stay around that level.

  10. #30
    Waterborne Beer Inspector Bucking Fastard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave M View Post
    Of course it is worth noting that the relatively new pub code has stricter rules for pubcos with over 500 tenants.

    So for example Trust Inns appear to have an estate of between 4-500 and I sense that they are happy to stay around that level.
    Thats interesting Dave and does explain a 500 pub threshold .I have editted my original post to reflect this.
    "Good people drink good beer" Hunter S Thompson

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