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Thread: Oh dear, self promotion FAIL

  1. #81
    This Space For Hire arwkrite's Avatar
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    I agree that licencees should be able to post the bald facts of what their premises have to offer.
    The effusive corporate speak which make many of these self promotions so obvious grates on my nerves. My hope is that PuG becomes the place to find straight facts and feelings about places calling themselves pubs. Licencees and staff could be a little less touchy. Try standing back and look at things from the customers viewpoint. Customers should appreciate the trading difficulties that many pubs, especially smaller ones in rural communities, are facing at the present time.
    Slanging matches lead nowhere as far as facts are concerned. To be honest I would rather see a plain un reviewed entry than a series of conflicting views with an obvious clash of personalities.Like corporate speak they tell me sod all.

  2. #82
    Former Pubs Galore Coder
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    Ok, just back at my computer for 5 minutes, and feel a need to add to this again. Firstly, landlords are welcome to review their pubs and we encourage it every chance we get, but we do request that they mention they have an interest in the pub, basically if they don't mention that how can you trust anything else.

    Returning to the Grove. I can tell from the information we have available that Simon Davies is almost inevitably involved in the pub, and although I can't guarantee it I believe it when Paris says he is the landlord. Thus putting the comment
    Quote Originally Posted by simon davies
    i have now visited on several occasions and had a great experience on each visit!
    Just removes all credibility from the review for me. If we can prove they are the landlord I am inclined to delete it, otherwise we are encouraging the sort of review Paris (sorry Paris this isn't personal you have just turned into a great example) left which I personally feel will just make it tit for tat. If I can't prove it then I will leave it all alone, assuming there are no allegations of criminal activity etc.

    The real problem with this lot though is that again from information we have here, I am 99% certain that Mike Landsdown is the same user as Simon Davies just using a different email address and again saying
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Landsdown
    Lovely pub, much bigger than it looks, with a great heated courtyard and games room out the back as well as a cosy eating area, pleasantly suprised when coming in for the first time to watch the rugby internationals! Good pint of Doom Bar and Scrumdown from the handpumps, missed the beer festival this weekend but fellow friends informed me the Emoor Gold was v.good
    Given I know that whoever wrote that review works at the pub, should I let that review stand when it is clearly a fabrication?!

    For me the real issue is that they are creating multiple accounts for the purpose of publicity on the site. This is a big issue for me, and will mean deletion of both reviews and a ban of all but one of the accounts. Exactly the same as we have done to try and control the antics of the trolls from BITE who came to the forums and started creating multiple accounts.

    Let me know if you think that is the wrong approach?

  3. #83
    Fully paid up beer belly Farway's Avatar
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    Is it possible for you to edit the text of the review? Adding something like "Please Note: This review was submitted by a person with connections to this pub" or suchlike

    Or is it too much hassle, or likely to spark off yet more false reviews? Both of which I can understand

    With only 3 reviews is it really going to seem a big problem over time? I cross refer here http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubreviews/67157/

    One bad review, then one suspects some of the owners mates chipped in, now just one glowing current report left in date, so folk can make their own minds up

    IMO unless it the multiple accounts from same place really grate then I would ignore it and let time do it's stuff, assuming 50 glowing reviews are then not posted

  4. #84
    This Space For Hire Rex_Rattus's Avatar
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    And I'm with Conrad on this one. If you look at The Grove website it certainly looks like Simon Davies is the landlord/manager. So, by posting a review pretending that he is an ad hoc customer he is being duplicitous, and by creating another account and thus pretending he is a second customer he is compunding the offence. Of course there's no problem with a landlord posting facts about his pub, but when he pretends to be a customer (or customers!) with no vested interest he is most definitely offside.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farway View Post
    Is it possible for you to edit the text of the review? Adding something like "Please Note: This review was submitted by a person with connections to this pub" or suchlike

    Or is it too much hassle, or likely to spark off yet more false reviews? Both of which I can understand
    We can and it is probably the fairest thing to do, my take is that it is too much hassle though. Mainly as I think people are more likely to debate if you edit their review. I think someone who leaves a review pretending they are a guest is a liar (maybe a white liar) and if you publicly call a liar the standard recourse seems to be to try and tell a bigger porky, by deleting the review which is less public I feel they are less likely to debate. Very much my perspective though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Farway View Post
    With only 3 reviews is it really going to seem a big problem over time? I cross refer here http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubreviews/67157/

    One bad review, then one suspects some of the owners mates chipped in, now just one glowing current report left in date, so folk can make their own minds up

    IMO unless it the multiple accounts from same place really grate then I would ignore it and let time do it's stuff, assuming 50 glowing reviews are then not posted
    Strongly disagree myself, it does just grate, so the following may be heavily biased.

    To offer some justification, would it be as fair to let someone dropping negative reviews make multiple accounts on the basis that it comes out in the wash?

    Also it does leave some good reviewers just wanting to out the publicans when they do fake reviews (I clearly know that temptation given I am doing it here), I may be misremembering but I felt sure you had left a review suggesting that a prior reviewer hadn't mentioned their connection to the pub being reviewed?

  6. #86
    Fully paid up beer belly Farway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conrad View Post
    Also it does leave some good reviewers just wanting to out the publicans when they do fake reviews (I clearly know that temptation given I am doing it here), I may be misremembering but I felt sure you had left a review suggesting that a prior reviewer hadn't mentioned their connection to the pub being reviewed?
    Correct, there was a spate of fake reviews for various pubs a couple of years or so ago and I "outed" Tracie Martin on one of them, she then at least reposted but declared interest, whic was all that was need in the first place as I think we all agreed then & now http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/61325/

    Back then it was bit easier to "out" as the multiple or false names did not seem to have been widespread, or maybe it was but publicans had not cottoned on, so a quick Google could bring up the license application or pub web site with publican named

    As the multiple fake reviews grate with you, and you are Dictator, then perhaps delete the lot as you were sort of thinking of doing in the first place?

    Oh, just looked again at the Grove, now it reads fine to my eyes, especially as the first review is unrated which, to my mind if connected to owner rating high is tempatation they could not resist

  7. #87
    Just Missed the Round Evil Gazebo's Avatar
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    Self-promotion, explicit or otherwise, is an issue which will inevitably cause difficult questions on any user-driven review website. I don’t believed that there is a set definition of rules which can be applied to each and every situation, rather that vigilance and a common-sense approach (as is happening on this site) is far better.

    It does seem remarkable (to me, at least) how poor some people are at disguising themselves, given how easy it would be to fling up a handful of token reviews of pubs elsewhere, along with a glowing appraisal of your own establishment, with some attractive features sneakily tucked in. But logging in, under your own name, and leaving one solitary review which reads so much like a poorly worded advert that an eight-year-old would be suspicious of it, almost removes the sport from it. Not that I wish to give any future charlatans ideas, mind.

    Of course, in common with everyone else on this thread, I see nothing wrong with landlords/managers coming on, being clear about who they are and simply giving information which potential customers are going to find helpful. Something I’m not sure has been discussed (I’ve had a root about and can’t see anything, apologies if this has been dealt with elsewhere) is managers responding to specific posts.

    On some sites the facility exists for a management response to be made, which is labelled as such, and sits attached as a reply to the original review rather than as a stand-alone entry. TripAdvisor has this - just to give an example, a hotel Mrs Gazebo and I recently stayed in had a review which the manager had responded to, highlighting parts of the review which he claimed to be wholly inaccurate. Our subsequent stay in the hotel demonstrated the manager’s reply to be perfectly justifiable and worthwhile. While TripAdvisor is clearly a behemoth among consumer generated review sites, this facility may help prevent the feared descent into slanging matches, and doesn’t appear to have provoked every perceived criticism, however mild, to be met with a furious response from an indignant hotelier.

    Again, apologies if this seems somewhat rambling, I blame it on lost sleep caused by getting up at stupid o'clock to watch non-existent cricket.
    Last edited by Evil Gazebo; 26-11-2010 at 10:06.
    And you can really taste the hops!

  8. #88
    Real Ale Drinker Paris_Hilton's Avatar
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    Blimey! I did'nt think my post on The Grove would spark so much debate. I only popped in for a couple and reviewed as I found.

    I 'outed' Simon Davies as he was posing as a customer; I like (almost) all other posters have no problem with the landlord or other staff posting as long as he/she identifiy themselves and post facts.

  9. #89
    Humble Wordsmith ETA's Avatar
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    http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/11514/

    Annoying, if nothing else.

  10. #90
    Real Ale Drinker Paris_Hilton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ETA View Post
    http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/11514/

    Annoying, if nothing else.
    Very annoying. Looks like a cheaper, Essex version of Ronnie Scott's Jazz Club. Would be better suited to the new web-site Jazz Clubs Galore.

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