Whats this all about

[gillhalfpint]

I have had a look at what is involved here as I use the site differently from the rest of you I think, and look for open pubs when I start to look a place I am going to, and if you don't want closed pubs on the list you don't check the closed pub box so that is ok.

I then went to look at one I have been to before that I knew was closed to see what the map was like, and chose George IV in Sheffield. It didn't appear unless I checked the box, and I had a look at it's map, and it doesn't appear on the moveable map at all.

Something puzzled me though, there were no reviews for the pub, and I am sure I have done a review or two there when it was open. Are reviews deleted when a pub closes?

[Rex_Rattus]

I have had a look at what is involved here as I use the site differently from the rest of you I think, and look for open pubs when I start to look a place I am going to, and if you don't want closed pubs on the list you don't check the closed pub box so that is ok.

I then went to look at one I have been to before that I knew was closed to see what the map was like, and chose George IV in Sheffield. It didn't appear unless I checked the box, and I had a look at it's map, and it doesn't appear on the moveable map at all.
Something puzzled me though, there were no reviews for the pub, and I am sure I have done a review or two there when it was open. Are reviews deleted when a pub closes?

Reviews are certainly not deleted when a pub closes. If one of yours has gone then it must be a glitch, as I can't imagine any of yours qualifying for a "Report This Review" notification!

Closed pubs have never been included on the movable map. I think it was Conrad who took the view that if they were included then there would be far too many green dots - we wouldn't be able to see the wood for the trees as it were. And there is logic in this, as most of us seem happy for old closed pubs to be on the site, and I for one wouldn't want the map cluttered with pubs closed as long ago as the 1880s. Like you (and most of us I'm sure) I'm more interested in open pubs, and as long as they can be hidden from the lists by unticking a box then I'm OK with that.

[Soup Dragon]

Closed pubs have never been included on the movable map. I think it was Conrad who took the view that if they were included then there would be far too many green dots - we wouldn't be able to see the wood for the trees as it were. And there is logic in this, as most of us seem happy for old closed pubs to be on the site, and I for one wouldn't want the map cluttered with pubs closed as long ago as the 1880s. Like you (and most of us I'm sure) I'm more interested in open pubs, and as long as they can be hidden from the lists by unticking a box then I'm OK with that.

There is a difference between closed pubs and ones that were demolished in 1880. I visit closed pubs to see if they have re-opened, and then update PG. I wouldn't be happy to trapse across Brum looking for a pub that went in 1880 - hence, all i say, is if you put them on, put some context to it.... "this pub is now under Asda"...... so others don't go looking for it.

In an ideal world, we would have three colour codes - green for open, amber for closed and red for gone - but understandably, this takes work!

[Al 10000]

Just stating my opinion.
thank goodness shipstones is no longer available.

Thanks to the reviewers who dont mind me adding older pubs to the site with photos and a review,i did note that the reviewers who backed me up have reviewed quite a few pubs, Trainman seems to think this is a bad idea,but he hardly does any recent reviews himself,only 52 i think.

While i have been a member of PG i have took photos and visited pub in my local area that i would never have any intention of doing but for the good of PG and an up to date review.

Regarding the Wellington in Birmingham,yes i have been in it when it was a John Smiths tied house,i have taken a recent photo but i decided not to add an old review because the pub has a very high profile on PG,but i may now add an old crap review stating how good the John Smiths bitter was.

Whha has really annoyed me is the slating of Shipstones they produced a great bitter and mild,i was born and bred in Nottingham so Shippo's was my local drink,when i did early trips to Sheffield, Wards was the local beer,this tasted very strange at the start of a session,very nutty,but i soon got used to it and ended up really enjoying drinking Wards bitter.

I am not sure if you have ever drank Shipstones bitter on a regular basis to slate it like that,just the same with Boddingtons,this was a great straw coloured bitter that was really nice in the early 80s.

I would also like to say,i have reviewed over 300 pubs this year,all on recent visits with date visited.

[Rex_Rattus]

Just a few points Alan - Trainman's opinions are just that, his opinions on how to treat closed pubs and old reviews, to which you're quite entitled to disagree. I don't think the number of reviews he's contributed matters too much or makes his opinions less valid in this respect, as he no doubt uses the site to research open pubs for his own purposes.

Also, I agree with your approach to pubs like The Wellington in that it doesn't really help to post old reviews that bump down current, and arguably more relevant, reviews. And I wouldn't get too annoyed over someone else's opinions on Shipstone's - again it's just their opinions. I've never had Shipstone's as it doesn't seem to have made its way down south to London, so I've no axe to grind. There are some stouts and the like which other reviewers will no doubt rate as nectar of the Gods, but which I wouldn't touch with a bargepole - but that's just my personal taste and personal opinion.

But these are just my opinions, to which you're quite entitled to disagree!

[Aqualung]

I think this thread is losing direction, so I will pose this question. Should pubs that no longer exist be added as new entries to the database? My opinion is a big fat NO, but I'm not going to start kicking and screaming if others disagree.

[Mobyduck]

I think this thread is losing direction, so I will pose this question. Should pubs that no longer exist be added as new entries to the database? My opinion is a big fat NO, but I'm not going to start kicking and screaming if others disagree.

In a word -NO, which leads to another question ,should pubs that have been demolished in recent years but have reviews from when it was open ,deleted? I don't think so, but I think they should be moved to an archive database much in the way old beer of the week threads are stored.,(I have no idea how easy or not this would be for Dave to sort and maintain).I think this should also be where Alan's old reviews from the 80;s and 90's should go to save confusion with current reviews,not to hide them away but in a separate area for historical interest along with other pubs with reviews dating back older than ten years for example. maybe this is making things to complicated, just an idea.
I could add greatly to my review count but as visits to these pubs took place two or three or more years ago I don't feel they would be relevant to add to the site as it is now,in my opinion of course.

[london calling]

I certainly use PUG as a pub guide and thanks to London reviews have found some cracking pubs that I possibly would have missed.Dead pubs don't count imo.

[AlanH]

I find 30 yr-old 'reviews' to be a huge negative to the site; it just smacks of a personal recording of 'I've been here' but provides no view of what the current pub (if one exists) is like.
I don't see an Al10000 review of, say, the Wellington in Birmingham, but his stance of not wishing to re-visit because he ticked it circa 1983 (and probably sampled a 'nice beer') is effin ludicrous! Pubs change! Recent reviews may be pertinent regarding that change, but stuff from another era when the beer world was sh1t, are simply detrimental to any pub guide site.

I first got into the historical merits of closed pubs when Al10000 put a large number of them on in Clayton (East Manchester) where I used to work, and Hulme (South Manchester) where I used to do many pub crawls. As about 50 pubs in the two areas have been closed with most demolished, it gives me pleasure to look back and remember them. They may have gone for good, but PuG keeps them in my mind and memories. So keep it up Al and lets have more, especially as all yours have reviews and photographs.
As they are not on the interactive maps and can be turned off completely, it should not bother anyone who is not interested in them. But I wish there was an icon showing closed pubs only as there is on What Pub.

[gillhalfpint]

I first got into the historical merits of closed pubs when Al10000 put a large number of them on in Clayton (East Manchester) where I used to work, and Hulme (South Manchester) where I used to do many pub crawls. As about 50 pubs in the two areas have been closed with most demolished, it gives me pleasure to look back and remember them. They may have gone for good, but PuG keeps them in my mind and memories. So keep it up Al and lets have more, especially as all yours have reviews and photographs.
As they are not on the interactive maps and can be turned off completely, it should not bother anyone who is not interested in them. But I wish there was an icon showing closed pubs only as there is on What Pub.

That was why I was checking the map for one I knew had closed. It doesn't bother me having them on site as long as they are not on the interactive map, and they are not, so I am happy with that. If you want them you've got them, and if you don't want them you don't have to scroll trough them.

I get your point about the way Whatpub are doing it too. On here if you click the closed icon you get every pub, open and closed, and have to check down the x's.