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Thread: Served areas on Pubs Galore

  1. #1
    Between pubs sheffield hatter's Avatar
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    Default Served areas on Pubs Galore

    Quote Originally Posted by oldboots View Post
    BTW Hockley and the Jewellery Quarter are pretty much the same place so why the Birmingham Mail separates them I don't know.
    Quote Originally Posted by sheffield hatter View Post
    Yeah, but so does Pubs Galore! I went to the Jewellers Arms a couple of weeks ago and was surprised to find it was not in the Jewellery Quarter! (I've done a bit of a tidy, with what I thought were obvious JQ pubs now appearing in both Hockley & JQ. Others may want to rearrange them - which I am happy with if it's based on local and therefore better knowledge.)

    Quote Originally Posted by rpadam View Post
    The Jewellery Quarter only covers the eastern part of the wider area that might also be called Hockley, but it also creeps a bit further towards the city centre (and almost anywhere in the West Midlands if you are a proponent of estate agents' geography, a bit like Hoxton in London...).

    Personal view:
    a) anything west of the A4540 Icknield Street as far as the Black Eagle is just Hockley;
    b) anything between the A4540 and the Birmingham & Fazeley Canal could be Jewellery Quarter or Hockley; and
    c) anything between the canal and A4400 Queensway could be Jewellery Quarter or Birmingham Central.

    Quote Originally Posted by oldboots View Post
    Where an area has not been a parish or electoral ward it is a generally fruitless exercise trying to define its boundaries, Hockley has been neither, it was apparently part of a landed estate in belonging to the Colmore family. The Jewellery Quarter being an informal name is even less easy to define, as you surmise, luckily for estate agents.

    Quote Originally Posted by rpadam View Post
    I wish I'd found this site sooner - it would have saved me some typing and broadly supports my a), b), c) hypothesis.
    [I thought it would be useful to summarise this discussion and remove it from the (largely unrelated) thread in which it originated.]

    Let me begin by saying that I find both of your contributions interesting and valuable, and they have provided some insight for me into an area (in both senses of the word) I hadn't really given much thought to. And anyway #geographygalorerulesok.

    However, I think you are possibly overlooking the meaning and purpose of the areas on Pubs Galore. The name for this feature is "served areas". I take that to mean that a pub that is just outside the area (as a geographical entity) can serve the area even if all the people who drink in the pub disagree. It would need a serious barrier, like a river or a railway track without bridges or underpasses, I suggest. I remember a similar discussion a few years ago when I seriously annoyed Conrad about an area in York that was split by the railway. In those sorts of cases it may be useful to think about what the parish or ward boundaries are, but in general it's not.

    Here's an example: in London, a lot of the areas that have been developed on the site are based around tube stations. A lot of the time that makes sense: in an intensely developed urban area, the tube station is a landmark that people refer to. But the further you get from a tube station that acts as the centre of one of our areas, the nearer you're going to be to another tube station. There comes a point where a pub is within a reasonable walking distance of two (or possibly more) tube stations. In Birmingham it makes sense that the area near the railway station and tram stop called Jewellery Quarter is called Jewellery Quarter, whether or not a tourist leaflet defines it the same way. Similarly, and without knowing the first thing about the canal in Birmingham, is it really such a barrier as is suggested by Richard's points b) and c)? Maybe it looks like a convenient line on the map, but in reality?

    Interested to hear your thoughts on this. And anyone else who wants to dip their toes into the murky waters of #geographygalore.
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    I've not got any suggestions but living in Leeds it was interesting to see whether it'd get shoehorned into northwest or northeast when maps were split that way. Culturally there's little between Lancashire and Yorkshire so I'd link it to the northwest but geologically it's eastern.

    That's after having lived on the west coast of Wales with a Shrewsbury Postcode, but before living in Stockton - supposedly the only council split between two counties.

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    This Space For Hire Aqualung's Avatar
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    I've tried to steer clear of area arguments since the late Alan Winfield got the right hump when I added a pub on the edge of Nottingham City Centre to Nottingham Central.

    Here are my thoughts

    I don't find areas like xxxxx North and xxxxxx South very useful.

    Stations are useful but more so in city areas. I notice that Stourbridge Junction is given the more correct Oldswinford. Now I know that Stourbridge Junction is in Oldswinford I prefer the latter.

    There is the danger of area overload. I'm thinking of Liverpool St, Bishopsgate, Bank, Moorgate and Monument. Area names like City Of London or West End are useless as they cover too great an area.

    There are some area names that are rarely used. In E4 I added Hale End which is the correct name for the area around Highams Park station, Highams Park is actually a recreational area of Epping Forest but once the railway arrived the whole area became Highams Park as used by buses and the newish Tesco. I'd be happy for Hale End to be removed.

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    Old & Bitter oldboots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheffield hatter View Post

    However, I think you are possibly overlooking the meaning and purpose of the areas on Pubs Galore.
    Not sure how any of my comments could be interpreted that way, Pubs Galore wasn't mentioned. I don't think Richard made any suggestions about that either, bless him, he trawled the internet in an attempt to prove the Jewellery Quarter does have some boundaries for some people.

    I've said this before I'm sure, I believe the purpose of areas on Pubs Galore is to make finding adjacent pubs easier especially when planning a pub crawl. Although it is not for the purposes of geography like that strange chap from Leeman Road in York believed, I suppose a case could be made for calling an area what the locals call it.
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    We're not really 'ere! trainman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinko View Post
    Culturally there's little between Lancashire and Yorkshire...
    … wow!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldboots View Post
    I suppose a case could be made for calling an area what the locals call it.
    Indeed. Someone who shall remain nameless insisted on creating an area for pub then near me based on the name of a local park visible on Google Maps, despite nobody actually calling the area that. This was due to the requirement to have an area served even if there is only one pub in the postal district and the local area has the same name. After a bit of argy-bargy my local knowledge prevailed and we ended up with the ugly "xxx Village" duplication, I've never really grasped why we must do that when the area is already implicit.

    Then again lots of people who live there call the area around Clapham Junction "Clapham", much to the annoyance of older Battersea residents.

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    Humble Wordsmith ETA's Avatar
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    Some time ago I suggested that the distinction between Chatham and Rochester could be inferred from the postcode and the City [of Rochester] boundary, but I'm still waiting for the amendment...

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    Pub researcher (unpaid) rpadam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ETA View Post
    Some time ago I suggested that the distinction between Chatham and Rochester could be inferred from the postcode and the City [of Rochester] boundary, but I'm still waiting for the amendment...

    The Dead Pigeon
    Unfortunately, this one has got stuck and only Dave has the magic potion, but I quite agree that the location is High Street, Rochester (despite it now being nearer to Chatham station since the former's station having been rebuilt closer to the castle / cathedral).

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