London Postcodes

[Conrad]

Hmmm, if we do all those changes we take the amount of direct locations in Central London up from 40 to 62, that would mean of our 75 counties only 2 would display more locations - Greater London and Strathclyde.

Displaying more locations means there is more stuff people have to look over to try and find what they are looking for, I still think using the search and maps is a better solution rather than trying to dilute the locations to as small a chunks as possible.

[rpadam]

I thought you might say that, so I'll just leave my suggestions on the table in case you decide to have another look at this issue at some stage in the future.

However, in order to complete the exercise that I started, here would be my suggestions in the event you look at sub-dividing SE1 (148 open pubs) and NW1 (109):

NW1 1 – Euston
NW1 2 – Euston
NW1 3 – Euston
NW1 4 – Marylebone
NW1 5 – Marylebone
NW1 6 – Marylebone
NW1 7 – Camden Town
NW1 8 – Camden Town
NW1 9 – Camden Town
NW1 0 – Camden Town

SE1 1 – London Bridge
SE1 2 – London Bridge
SE1 3 – Bermondsey
SE1 4 – Borough
SE1 5 – Bermondsey
SE1 6 – Borough
SE1 7 – Waterloo
SE1 8 – Waterloo
SE1 9 – Southwark
SE1 0 – Southwark

PS - In my previous list, EC1Y should really have been 'Old Street' as it probably has too few pubs to justify being an area in its own right.

[Conrad]

The trouble is what you define as an area really.

I don't know London so I'm really not clear on what I am looking at there, but taking Bristol you could take St. Pauls, Montpelier, Clifton, Kingswood (technically a town), Bradley Stoke (again technically a a town), etc. and onward. We leave all of them as Bristol as at some point I don't think it works to subdivide - say for instance you are looking for a pub in St. Pauls, you would be as well looking at Bristol proper or Montpelier as the border between those districts is basically seamless, and has a completely different meaning if you are trying to sell your house. So clumping them all into Bristol whilst in some ways not being at all convenient serves the dual purpose of putting it into a block that has a fairly well defined border, and also one that we can clearly moderate as we are taking corrections.

The list definitely ticks the moderation box, I'm not sure if it ticks the clearly defined district box. I guess I will have to hear off all the people in the know what they think?

I do wonder if there is a need for a new trick here rather than changing what we have so dramatically. The only one that springs to mind is allowing pubs to be tagged with locations, and they could have as many locations as you like tagged onto them, so a pub could be described as all of - SE1, SE1 6, Borough, & South Bank. Not sure in my head how that lends itself to navigating the site though which is a little off-putting.

[Conrad]

Actually just as addendum to all that.

To extend the Bristol example, Bristol is shown in Greater Bristol as a Postal Town. If we were to make Kingswood a distinct district it would go into Greater Bristol as a "village" and only be shown in small print, and appear as a village section on the Bristol Page.

Central London is not using this form of navigation at all currently. For me it would be a better solution, I am not sure what would constitute a Postal Town, and what a village though, again a question for those who actually understand London.

[Rex_Rattus]

As far as London is concerned, I don't think that I would regard anywhere as either a "postal town" or a "village". As far as I am concerned they are all just "places". Oh, I know some places are called villages (perhaps the most famous being Wimbledon Village) but this is just because the residents, and other interested parties, think it sounds nicer and separates their "village" from their less affluent neighbours! Just stick to places.

If I were you I would do my best to attribute place names to the various postcodes - which you have done. Of course we know only too well that these postcodes don't match precisely the "places" in London. It's up to you to say whether this is just something that will have to be lived with, or if you will change the place name (irrespective of the postcode) when someone points out that the postcode attribution has put a pub in the wrong "place". Of course some people will be wrong in their re-attributions, but a darn sight more will re-attribute correctly.

[Conrad]

The Postal Towns and villages are just words, I was wondering if there was a concept of districts within districts in London, I kind of suspect not having said it, but if there were it would allow for some breakdown of regions.

I think at some point we are going to have to crack and get rid of the postcode attributions as you say the weight of averages would mean our users sort it out, but I would still like to try and keep the number of locations under control in Central London. I still think underneath it all the maps are the thing that holds it all together though, and at some point in the future I would like to show the map as part of the main pubs page, hopefully that will help people more as well.

[Strongers]

The problem with users sorting it out is that three pubs next door to each other end up being listed in different places eg. Piccadilly, Piccadily Circus and Westminster. It's confusing to say the least.

[rpadam]

Yes, but surely that would be an argument for putting all pubs in a single UK location?

[Conrad]

Certainly that has always been my fear, something I have toyed with in the past is allowing members to take ownership of areas they know, which also has the benefit of lifting some of the admin from us. That said, again this is an idea that would take some time to develop, might still be a good one though.

[Conrad]

Yes, but surely that would be an argument for putting all pubs in a single UK location?

Surely that is an argument for having every house as a different location?

How about trying to be constructive rather than just trying to moan at people who are trying to contribute?