Starting a pub - query

Hi all, new here :p As I'm sure many others have previously, I've been thinking about taking on a pub for ages but kept it on the backburner. In the last week my local - in a nice tourist village, SE England - has come up for lease. It's Enterprise Inns with a "partial tie" (gulp) on beers. As per my research I wouldn't enter into anything of the sort, unless it was free of tie. I've seen talk of negotiating with their pubco prior to taking on the lease - has anyone got experience with this?

There are a few free-of-tie Enterprise owned pubs round here so I'm sure it can be done. I know most recommend buying a freehold which is another option - do EI flog their pubs? I've seen talk of them preferring the planning/convert to flats route as it means more £££ for them - probably right.

FWIW my business partner and I wouldn't be "running" the pub, we'd find a pub manager as we have limited experience in catering although a lot of experience in retailing and marketing and have the funds, to an extent, to get this pub off the ground. Part of me think it's a big opportunity I'd regret if I let it pass, and yet part of me is telling me I'm barmy when X pubs are dying every day.

Anyone ever done anything like this with a pubco ? Definitely won't even consider a partial tie.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by phatwa

Hi all, new here :p As I'm sure many others have previously, I've been thinking about taking on a pub for ages but kept it on the backburner. In the last week my local - in a nice tourist village, SE England - has come up for lease. It's Enterprise Inns with a "partial tie" (gulp) on beers. As per my research I wouldn't enter into anything of the sort, unless it was free of tie. I've seen talk of negotiating with their pubco prior to taking on the lease - has anyone got experience with this?

There are a few free-of-tie Enterprise owned pubs round here so I'm sure it can be done. I know most recommend buying a freehold which is another option - do EI flog their pubs? I've seen talk of them preferring the planning/convert to flats route as it means more £££ for them - probably right.

FWIW my business partner and I wouldn't be "running" the pub, we'd find a pub manager as we have limited experience in catering although a lot of experience in retailing and marketing and have the funds, to an extent, to get this pub off the ground. Part of me think it's a big opportunity I'd regret if I let it pass, and yet part of me is telling me I'm barmy when X pubs are dying every day.

Anyone ever done anything like this with a pubco ? Definitely won't even consider a partial tie.

Cheers

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Tried running a pub once a good few years ago, I was very naive and basically done up like a kipper, pub co was then Unique,I believe brought out (absorbed ) by Enterprise, there was a holding company involved , I lasted about six weeks, if I were to think about a similar venture again it would have to be on a freehold basis and have some considerable funds available, no point at all going in half cocked . Good luck if you go for it.

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Originally Posted by Mobyduck

Tried running a pub once a good few years ago, I was very naive and basically done up like a kipper, pub co was then Unique,I believe brought out (absorbed ) by Enterprise, there was a holding company involved , I lasted about six weeks, if I were to think about a similar venture again it would have to be on a freehold basis and have some considerable funds available, no point at all going in half cocked . Good luck if you go for it.

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Was that on a tied basis? I've not really heard of any positive stories when there's a full- or partial-tie involved...!

Would love to buy the freehold (if available) but then that leaves little in the way of funds for renovation etc. Ideally a free of tie pub leased and with full control over the way it's run and decorated. Does such a thing exist? :D

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Originally Posted by phatwa

Was that on a tied basis? I've not really heard of any positive stories when there's a full- or partial-tie involved...!

Would love to buy the freehold (if available) but then that leaves little in the way of funds for renovation etc. Ideally a free of tie pub leased and with full control over the way it's run and decorated. Does such a thing exist? :D

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I'm no expert but I believe the Craft Beer Company has leased pubs from Greene King on a free of tie,with freedom over operational issues at their Leather Lane site ,and also their Cask Pub and Kitchen in Pimlico.They operate some leading real ale and craft keg beer pubs and you could always put in a cheeky call to them to see what they were able to negotiate.

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Originally Posted by phatwa

Was that on a tied basis? I've not really heard of any positive stories when there's a full- or partial-tie involved...!

Would love to buy the freehold (if available) but then that leaves little in the way of funds for renovation etc. Ideally a free of tie pub leased and with full control over the way it's run and decorated. Does such a thing exist? :D

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Tied.
I think you would be extremely lucky to realise your ideal situation although this has happened in the past.

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Originally Posted by Bucking Fastard

I'm no expert but I believe the Craft Beer Company has leased pubs from Greene King on a free of tie,with freedom over operational issues at their Leather Lane site ,and also their Cask Pub and Kitchen in Pimlico.They operate some leading real ale and craft keg beer pubs and you could always put in a cheeky call to them to see what they were able to negotiate.

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I suspect some serious financial input.

The Owner of the Bree Louise has a free of tie Enterprise lease and In 2009 when it started he agreed to pay £27000 a year for this option.Check out Camra forums I am sure Richard English would know a lot about this subject.

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Originally Posted by london calling

I am sure Richard English would know a lot about this subject.

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He knows everything about everything, allegedly.

Thanks all... I tried to register on the CAMRA forums funnily enough but it never lets me in. I think their registration form is broken. Maybe that explains why the last post was in December 2014...

Looked in to the Bree Louise, apparently they are paying an extra £27k a year to be off any ale tie, but they are still making a bigger profit that way than paying EI as they were before.

Look out for the classic Enterprise tactic of offering a low introductory rent, getting you to pay for refurbishment and then clobbering you for success when profits go up.

Enterprise always win. If they don't, they'll find a way to get rid of you.

I'd give them a wide berth unless you have serious financial assets in reserve.

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Originally Posted by Quinno

Look out for the classic Enterprise tactic of offering a low introductory rent, getting you to pay for refurbishment and then clobbering you for success when profits go up.

Enterprise always win. If they don't, they'll find a way to get rid of you.

I'd give them a wide berth unless you have serious financial assets in reserve.

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I've read about the rent rises during my research... The key seems to be to negotiate a fixed rate for X years and make sure it's written into the contract. There are so many horror stories that I've read about Enterprise treating people in an appalling way - and yet there seem to be a few successful Enterprise pubs nearby. I'm torn. We have financial clout but I think I'm asking for the impossible.

Anyone know when the beer tie is actually going to become law? I can't see any fixed dates.

You say you are looking at a village pub. Have you considered a community buyout?

have you tried the specialist estate agents, eg

http://www.guysimmonds.co.uk/ but google will find you others?