Re: Opening Hours whinge

Unable to reply directly to the suggestion from oldboots in the Report a Review thread that the latest review of Boar & Fable should be repressed, but just wanted to say that although it is a bit of a whinge about the pub not being open when it could reasonably have been expected to be, I don't think it is too over the top and it's from a reviewer in our top 50, so I would rather see it stay.

I can remember writing something similar about a micropub a few years back - it's very frustrating if you have checked available info and find that a pub is not open when it should be. In Macclesfield last week one pub out of many that I wanted to visit had three different opening times (on their own website, on Facebook and on WhatPub). When I messaged them to ask which was correct it turned out to be WhatPub, but probably more by luck than good info. (When they subsequently tried to change the Facebook listing, the pub ended up "Temporarily Closed"!)

The number of reviews someone has posted really doesn't have any bearing on whither or not a review is pointless drivel.

This one is pointless and adds zero to this site, moan at WhatPub, Google or the Pub itself by all means but foot stamping like this doesn't belong here.

I'm with Will on this one ob, commenting that a pub's opening hours are not to be trusted is pretty key info, imo. I wouldn't grade this as foot-stomping, seems pretty tame to me...

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Originally Posted by oldboots

The number of reviews someone has posted really doesn't have any bearing on whither or not a review is pointless drivel.

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I have to disagree with you about that. Someone who has posted 500+ reviews has shown a certain commitment to the site and if they have not posted 500 lots of foot-stamping drivel then presumably they are to be trusted by and large. And for someone who has taken the trouble to check Google, Facebook and WhatPub only to find the pub not open, this review seems fairly restrained to me.

Drivel remains drivel regardless of who writes it and that includes me and even you.

I might have had some sympathy if the pub had advertised its opening hours and then not met them - not the case here as the pub didn't advertise its opening hours; I might have had even more sympathy if the reviewer had travelled miles to a remote pub on the basis of hours advertised by the pub - definitely not the case here as North Parade is probably the most densely pubbed street in Bradford and once again the PUB didn't advertise its opening hours. I'll also repeat that What Pub has a caveat about opening hours and if we all whinged in reviews about every pub where the pub didn't advertise its hours and sources the pub doesn't control had them wrong we'd have a lot of pointless reviews wrongly blaming the pub.

We've all had occasions when a pub hasn't been open when expected, most of us are grown up enough to shrug and go somewhere else, not have a whinge about it on a pub review site.

Coincidentally, I've had a couple of conversations recently about information available about pubs, and I have come round to the view that a responsible pub operator would make a point of checking what information is out there about their pub.

If I was running a pub I would make a point of checking at least once a week on Google, Trip Adviser, WhatPub, Facebook and maybe even Pubs Galore. It's easy for one or more of those to have a glitch (like Facebook did when the Brewers Arms in Macc tried to correct their opening hours), so why would you allow inaccurate information about your business to stay out there when it's fairly easy to correct. Same with bad reviews on Trip Adviser, etc; if there's a right of reply option, why leave someone's gripe unanswered.

As a provider of a service, it seems strange to allow false information about that service to remain available to potential customers. Too many pub owners seem to be content (like the guy at that micro in Allestree in 2017) to just shrug their shoulders and say "sorry". Better, surely, to be prepared and keep your customers happy, rather than saying sorry when you don't really mean it.

You seem to be saying that not advertising the hours should protect a pub owner from criticism if someone turns up and finds the pub not open. Why would a pub not advertise its opening hours? Back in the day when it was always 12 to 2.30 and 5.30 to 10.30 or whatever, I could understand not bothering to advertise hours, but that's not been the case for 30 years or more. I take your point about there being lots of pubs nearby, so the reviewer shouldn't be too disappointed; and indeed my reading of Rob Hunter's note is that he intends to return at some time. Once again, this doesn't feel like foot-stamping nonsense to me.

Pubs should absoloutely be checking and updating the info about their pubs as Will says, however many seem incapable of even updating their own websites so I'm not holding my breath.

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Originally Posted by Mobyduck

Pubs should absoloutely be checking and updating the info about their pubs as Will says, however many seem incapable of even updating their own websites so I'm not holding my breath.

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Yup. Agree entirely. Some places are incredibly lax about updating their opening times, some still claiming that they are closing seven days a week at 22.00! I think that sometimes they assume that visitors have popped in from around the corner, not appreciating that some people make a real effort to visit. I wouldn't blame What?ub though; perhaps pubs should have the brains to update What?ub - if I can do it, so can they.
Then again, perhaps they've closed due to immediate unforeseen circumstances.

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Originally Posted by Tris39

perhaps pubs should have the brains to update What?ub - if I can do it, so can they.
Then again, perhaps they've closed due to immediate unforeseen circumstances.

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Sometimes getting What?ub updated is easier said than done. More than once I've got the automated reply but no further progress made.

I had a similar experience to Will when I tried to visit the The Bald Buzzard Ale House in Leighton Buzzard, only to find a sign on the door with different times than had been advertised online. I had to go all the way back to Hemel Hempstead to kill some time and go back to Leighton Buzzard, just to tick this one pub.

The owner wasn't having any of it when I asked him about the opening times and insisted that everything was correct online.

I don't have a particular issue with it, there's at least some context. I've posted similar myself.

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Originally Posted by sheffield hatter

Coincidentally, I've had a couple of conversations recently about information available about pubs, and I have come round to the view that a responsible pub operator would make a point of checking what information is out there about their pub.

If I was running a pub I would make a point of checking at least once a week on Google, Trip Adviser, WhatPub, Facebook and maybe even Pubs Galore. It's easy for one or more of those to have a glitch (like Facebook did when the Brewers Arms in Macc tried to correct their opening hours), so why would you allow inaccurate information about your business to stay out there when it's fairly easy to correct. Same with bad reviews on Trip Adviser, etc; if there's a right of reply option, why leave someone's gripe unanswered.

As a provider of a service, it seems strange to allow false information about that service to remain available to potential customers. Too many pub owners seem to be content (like the guy at that micro in Allestree in 2017) to just shrug their shoulders and say "sorry". Better, surely, to be prepared and keep your customers happy, rather than saying sorry when you don't really mean it.

You seem to be saying that not advertising the hours should protect a pub owner from criticism if someone turns up and finds the pub not open. Why would a pub not advertise its opening hours? Back in the day when it was always 12 to 2.30 and 5.30 to 10.30 or whatever, I could understand not bothering to advertise hours, but that's not been the case for 30 years or more. I take your point about there being lots of pubs nearby, so the reviewer shouldn't be too disappointed; and indeed my reading of Rob Hunter's note is that he intends to return at some time. Once again, this doesn't feel like foot-stamping nonsense to me.

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Rather than straw men and specious arguments the point remains that Rob Hunter was brassed off by an error in opening hours published by third parties not the pub, so it seems a bit off to whinge about the pub. While it's desirable for pubs to monitor social media, etc I'm sure there are higher priorities. I suspect the convenience of pub tickers who pop in for a half spending all of £2 never to be seen again isn't that high a priority either.

Yes in a perfect world pubs would display their opening hours outside and on whatever social media they have the time to maintain. What Pub has the caveat probably because some branches are useless at updating the information, even if some kind soul tells them and there are not many of them, the information ought to be checked by someone going to the pub and asking someone who actually knows which is not usually the harassed staff. How you get Google to update their information I don't know and I doubt many publicans do either and don't have the time to find out. If you have a strong local trade and people visiting when pubs are usually open why would you need to show your hours?

The "review" is a fit of pique and aimed at the wrong target.

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Originally Posted by oldboots

If you have a strong local trade and people visiting when pubs are usually open why would you need to show your hours?

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Well, perhaps because the hours are different from when other pubs are usually open.

Opening times for pubs in the area around the Boar & Fable, taken from Facebook where available, otherwise WhatPub or their own website:
Boar & Fable (WP) Friday 4.00 pm - Midnight (updated 7/11/21)
The Sparrow Friday: 11:00 - 00:00
Peacock Bar Friday: 12:00 - 01:00
Crafted Friday: 12:00 - 00:30
Plonk (WP) Friday 5.00 pm - 11.00 pm
The Record Cafe Friday: 11:00 - 23:00
Rumshackalack Friday: 10:00 - 01:00
The Silver Fox (WS) Fri: 11:00 AM – 1:00 AM
The Commercial Inn no info available

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Originally Posted by oldboots

The "review" is a fit of pique and aimed at the wrong target.

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"Come on guys, it doesn't take much to put your opening hours on your Facebook page." Doesn't sound much like a fit of pique to me. More like helpful advice with a tinge of disappointment and maybe a soupçon of exasperation.

This from their Facebook page last Thursday at 16:32. It’s already Pint O’Clock, you know it, we know it - see you down here! In fact, they seem to post on Facebook most days soon after opening, though they're less active on Twitter.

I've now found their website, which they haven't linked to from FB but there's a photo of a board with it on (weird) - https://www.boarandfable.com/ and this shows their opening times! They seem like nice guys (or is it just one guy?), with a lovely pub and superb beers, and no doubt they have good reasons for not opening until 4pm on Fridays (like, it's a long time until 1am).

No doubt Rob Hunter will go back one day and write a review.

Avoiding the point again!

You can huff and puff as much as you like but you’ll never convince me that it’s acceptable to moan about a pub over the actions of third parties. It’s an odd belief to hold but in a country with daft anti-vaxxers and tin-foil hat wearing loonies demonstrating about 5G I suppose it’s only to be expected.

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Originally Posted by oldboots

you’ll never convince me that it’s acceptable to moan about a pub over the actions of third parties.

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Tend to agree with this.

It's happened to me on a couple of occasions recently, which I still put down to pubs finding their way through the pandemic. I've taken to giving a pub a call if I'm making a special journey which has always worked.

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Originally Posted by oldboots

...you’ll never convince me that it’s acceptable to moan about a pub over the actions of third parties. It’s an odd belief to hold but in a country with daft anti-vaxxers and tin-foil hat wearing loonies demonstrating about 5G I suppose it’s only to be expected.

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I respect your right to stick to your guns, but I don't accept your categorisation of Rob Hunter's review as "drivel", a "whinge", a "fit of pique" or a "moan". I see it as a reasonable reaction to a situation where available information suggested the pub would be open. This view appears to have gained some support from others who have posted on this thread, while you remain unconvinced.

I have many years of experience in delivering customer service, even more years as a customer, and now more than 11 years of writing reviews on this site. I gave careful thought to this subject even before you raised your objection to the review on the Boar & Fable page. In my post @6 above I wrote "As a provider of a service, it seems strange to allow false information about that service to remain available to potential customers. Better, surely, to be prepared and keep your customers happy, rather than saying sorry when you don't really mean it." If you disagree with this, please say why - don't try to falsely equate my views with those of "daft anti-vaxxers and tin-foil hat wearing loonies demonstrating about 5G".

This has been fun, especially the bit about anti-vaxxers, but no doubt others are getting a little tired of it by now. Perhaps we could continue over a beer or two? :glass:

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Originally Posted by sheffield hatter

I respect your right to stick to your guns, but I don't accept your categorisation of Rob Hunter's review as "drivel", a "whinge", a "fit of pique" or a "moan". I see it as a reasonable reaction to a situation where available information suggested the pub would be open. This view appears to have gained some support from others who have posted on this thread, while you remain unconvinced.

I have many years of experience in delivering customer service, even more years as a customer, and now more than 11 years of writing reviews on this site. I gave careful thought to this subject even before you raised your objection to the review on the Boar & Fable page. In my post @6 above I wrote "As a provider of a service, it seems strange to allow false information about that service to remain available to potential customers. Better, surely, to be prepared and keep your customers happy, rather than saying sorry when you don't really mean it." If you disagree with this, please say why - don't try to falsely equate my views with those of "daft anti-vaxxers and tin-foil hat wearing loonies demonstrating about 5G".

This has been fun, especially the bit about anti-vaxxers, but no doubt others are getting a little tired of it by now. Perhaps we could continue over a beer or two? :glass:

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As you’re still unable or unwilling to address the basic point I’m certainly not going to waste my time on here or anywhere else on this any longer. Feel free to have the last word, I know you like to.

Get out and have a pint, :drinkup: It's no big deal either side of the argument. :cheers:

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Originally Posted by sheffield hatter

This has been fun, especially the bit about anti-vaxxers, but no doubt others are getting a little tired of it by now. Perhaps we could continue over a beer or two? :glass:

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If the two of you decide to meet up for a beer, please check the opening times before you leave the house :D

I think the lesson here is make sure there's a Wetherspoons nearby...

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Originally Posted by Real Ale Ray

If the two of you decide to meet up for a beer, please check the opening times before you leave the house :D

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And here endeth the thread.

Only just seen this thread as I've not been on the forums for a while.

In my defence, I don't think I launched a scathing attack on the establishment and even ended by saying that the beer menu looked promising and I would look forward to trying to visit again at some point.

As my experience may have been useful to someone else potentially planning a visit, I don't really see the issue in the review I left, my point being at the time that the venue had not made its opening hours easy to find, instead leaving people to rely on third party sites such as WhatPub or Google, and despite both being very useful resources are not always bang up to date. I usually find a venue's own Facebook page the most reliable source of information with regard to opening times, and still at the time of this post the opening hours are still absent from their Facebook page. As has been pointed out, there is now a web site listing the opening hours, which is something.

If ever I leave a review that just has information about opening hours I don't leave a rating out of 10 even if it has caused disappointing, as I feel a rating should reflect an actual successful visit, so it's not as if my review has trashed the venue's average rating on here or anything like that.

It seems we all have slightly differing views on what is a useful review and what is not, but so long as there is factual information that may help others (and not a full on abusive rant) then I don't see what harm has been done.

Petty reporting of reviews and the subsequent debates on the forums could leave some less thick skinned reviewers wondering why they bother, and I think sometimes show this site in a poorer light than the original review that is being complained about!

So, as stated in my review, I look forward to trying the place on another occasion and giving it a proper review!

Oh and I'm not sure what relevance "daft anti-vaxxers and tin-foil hat wearing loonies demonstrating about 5G" has to anything else being discussed here!

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Originally Posted by RealAleRobUK

Only just seen this thread as I've not been on the forums for a while.

In my defence, I don't think I launched a scathing attack on the establishment and even ended by saying that the beer menu looked promising and I would look forward to trying to visit again at some point.

As my experience may have been useful to someone else potentially planning a visit, I don't really see the issue in the review I left, my point being at the time that the venue had not made its opening hours easy to find, instead leaving people to rely on third party sites such as WhatPub or Google, and despite both being very useful resources are not always bang up to date. I usually find a venue's own Facebook page the most reliable source of information with regard to opening times, and still at the time of this post the opening hours are still absent from their Facebook page. As has been pointed out, there is now a web site listing the opening hours, which is something.

If ever I leave a review that just has information about opening hours I don't leave a rating out of 10 even if it has caused disappointing, as I feel a rating should reflect an actual successful visit, so it's not as if my review has trashed the venue's average rating on here or anything like that.

It seems we all have slightly differing views on what is a useful review and what is not, but so long as there is factual information that may help others (and not a full on abusive rant) then I don't see what harm has been done.

Petty reporting of reviews and the subsequent debates on the forums could leave some less thick skinned reviewers wondering why they bother, and I think sometimes show this site in a poorer light than the original review that is being complained about!

So, as stated in my review, I look forward to trying the place on another occasion and giving it a proper review!

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Ahh, only just linked you to Rob Hunter, not that it matters either way,personally I have no problems with comments in reviews calling out a pub to up their game regarding customer service.

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Originally Posted by Mobyduck

Ahh, only just linked you to Rob Hunter, not that it matters either way,personally I have no problems with comments in reviews calling out a pub to up their game regarding customer service.

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Have I blown my cover?!

I couldn't possibly reply to all the comments in this thread but I fully agree with what you say, all establishments (not just pubs) should make sure their social media is up to date and contains information such as opening hours that may be useful to people. Saying a business has better things to do just doesn't cut it, in this day and age business owners should be spending maybe just an hour a week responding to online reviews and promoting themselves, it's as much a part of running a business as doing the accounts and keeping on top of stock.

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Originally Posted by Mobyduck

I have no problems with comments in reviews calling out a pub to up their game regarding customer service.

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The Westminster Arms - a first-time visit yesterday, arriving at 21.40 to find the landlord in the process of finalising closing, which he must have started sometime earlier, despite the 23.00 stated closing time, on what should have been the busiest day of the week, being at the heart of Westminster's civil service. If I hadn't had four other successful visits to the area's pubs which were packed, I'd not have been pleased.

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Originally Posted by RealAleRobUK

Have I blown my cover?!

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Yes.

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Originally Posted by Mobyduck

Yes.

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Damn, I shall have to don dark glasses and a fake moustache.

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Originally Posted by RealAleRobUK

Damn, I shall have to don dark glasses and a fake moustache.

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Erm, the point about putting on a disguise is that no one should know in advance what the disguise will be and who is wearing it. But thanks for the tip - I'll keep an eye out for you.

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Originally Posted by sheffield hatter

Erm, the point about putting on a disguise is that no one should know in advance what the disguise will be and who is wearing it. But thanks for the tip - I'll keep an eye out for you.

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Maybe it's a double bluff and I won't have the fake moustache... happy hunting!

In all seriousness though, I do appreciate your post even if it did open a bit of a can of worms, makes me feel like slightly less of an unwelcome review criminal!