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sheffield hatter
22-09-2011, 21:24
This one (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/16704/) is having a right go at one of our more prolific reviewers. More a barney than a review. Delete? Or ask them to tone it down a bit?

Conrad
23-09-2011, 10:29
This post has been copied over from the review deletion thread. As I wanted to poll opinion.

Straight off I would like to take the option to ask them to tone it down off the table, I don't have the time to enter into a dialogue with a 1 drop reviewer, experience suggests it will be infuriating and wont get us any more quality content on the site. So I am prepared to do limited edits (can't see how that would help this) or delete with a deletion reason. So any suggestions?

I have to admit that I think it would be a shame to delete it, I was sniggering as I read most of her review, does anyone want to guess at the unnamed landlady's name? ;) Steve's review is good and I have no problem with it, I think the tone of the reply just adds further flavour to the pub and helps anyone in their decision of whether or not to visit, whilst not quite crossing the line to a deletion for not reviewing the pub or being about someone else. I suppose my only concerns are that it has a lot of potential for escalation and I guess Steve may not find it as funny as I do.

aleandhearty
23-09-2011, 12:22
I think most of us who dip into the site on a regular basis would guess who the reply was from. However, for the benefit of casual users, wouldn't an explanatory note from Admin, identifying the poster as the landlady, simply put the record straight and enable her response to be left unedited?

I must admit I was half concerned and half amused when I read her piece. With a name like Lehany and Irish music playing, I took The Weston to be an Irish pub. For her to state we don't sell much Guinness said it all for me.

Farway
23-09-2011, 14:10
I think most of us who dip into the site on a regular basis would guess who the reply was from. However, for the benefit of casual users, wouldn't an explanatory note from Admin, identifying the poster as the landlady, simply put the record straight and enable her response to be left unedited?

I must admit I was half concerned and half amused when I read her piece. With a name like Lehany and Irish music playing, I took The Weston to be an Irish pub. For her to state we don't sell much Guinness said it all for me.

I think we can guess she is the landlady, but is she? I had a Google but found nothing on the licence, gues the only sure way is look over the pub doorway

I also had a smile at Irish pub that has no call for Guinness

Unless proven as landlady, I would just let it stand unedited, and let any readers make up their minds, who knows one may even try the pub and post another review

Steve C posted as he found, customer / land lady does not like it, she has her reply, leave it like that I say

aleandhearty
23-09-2011, 14:32
...does anyone want to guess at the unnamed landlady's name? ;)


I think we can guess she is the landlady, but is she?...Unless proven as landlady, I would just let it stand unedited, and let any readers make up their minds

Farway, I think Conrad's dropping a pretty big hint there and that's certainly where I took my cue from. However, if it's not absolutely certain she is the landlady, I agree with everything you say.

Conrad
23-09-2011, 14:56
I haven't investigated, so Farway's concerns are sound. It is hard to be certain and I am certainly not in this case, I was just drawing my innuendo from the review.

I have been mulling this since posting, and I do worry it is a bit of a double standard by me, but I still do find it quite funny I'm afraid.

RogerB
23-09-2011, 14:57
I wouldn't be tempted to visit the pub based on either review so for me they have both managed to contrive the same result to a third party despite being polar opposites! In fact, knowing Strood, I'm not tempted to visit any pub there given that Rochester is 10 minutes walk over the bridge!

NickDavies
23-09-2011, 15:49
She has a remarkable memory considering her post is three month's on from Steve's. First Guinness sold of the day, football, delivery problems on the real ales. But maybe all that happens every Saturday and certainly judging by another pub review site she had delivery problems with the ales three years ago.

Rex_Rattus
23-09-2011, 18:17
It's hard to believe that she's not the landlady, but there's not any definitive evidence. I don't think that I would delete the review either - after all it does provide some more information about the pub.

I think that if I was Steve I might just post a concilliatory response - gratifying to learn that real ale is usually available and that I was just unlucky on my visit; obviously not able to judge whether the landlady is a rude person or not based on just my one visit, but of course have to say that if she has time to serve me then she has time to say good afternoon/thanks as this takes no additional time, but as you say maybe she had other things on her mind; fair enough with the ear-splitting music, if your regulars like it that way then fair play to them, it's just that I don't like it that loud; best of luck with the pub. It's Steve's call of course, and fair enough if he just wants to let it rest.

Conrad
23-09-2011, 18:40
I have to admit if Steve were to reply I would probably delete both responses as reviews are supposed to be reviews rather than replies, which is another potential reason I should delete the response already there. This is to avoid the sort of tit-for-tat degenerations that can happen that no one wants to read.

Sorry to put another spanner in the works.

Strongers
23-09-2011, 20:04
Ha, this was probably the worst pub I visited during my crawl of Strood and I think the landlady has just made my point. The pub wasn't busy and the landlady certainly wasn't rushing around checking food for an invisible football team. She was plain and simple rude. The music was so loud that the bar was vibrating.

I'll not be posting a reply as it will only start an argument, but it is good to see that my reviews get read!

Millay
25-09-2011, 10:18
I don't see a problem with these reviews staying, they both allow anyone to make an informed decision about whether to visit or not.

It also raises an interesting point about the 'worth' of reviews. We tend to value those of the 'prolific reviewers' yet decry the 'one drop reviewers'. From my perspective, and I suspect others will be the same, many of my reviews are based on one visit to a pub for a single pint - in effect a one drop review. Conversely those who we consider to be one drop reviewers are more likely to be regulars, or indeed involved with the running of the pub, eager to promote/defend the pub, and can give a more rounded view. Just a thought.

oldboots
25-09-2011, 12:00
I don't see a problem with these reviews staying, they both allow anyone to make an informed decision about whether to visit or not.

It also raises an interesting point about the 'worth' of reviews. We tend to value those of the 'prolific reviewers' yet decry the 'one drop reviewers'. From my perspective, and I suspect others will be the same, many of my reviews are based on one visit to a pub for a single pint - in effect a one drop review. Conversely those who we consider to be one drop reviewers are more likely to be regulars, or indeed involved with the running of the pub, eager to promote/defend the pub, and can give a more rounded view. Just a thought.

As ever Millay you make a very good point, sadly the one drop reviewers we get are not usually satisfied regulars or licensees but those letting off steam about a bad sunday lunch. Tonight or tomorrow's reviews will probably include a crop of those who waited "hours" for a poor quality /cold/badly cooked/served meal as well as some from those who wish to air their own prejudices.

As you say, the regulars who review their local are more likely to be those defending their friend the landlord/lady/manager (and in the other place are often put up to it by said friend) from some poor review by someone else, but I think "prolific reviewers" have the breadth of experience of many pubs which should give them an idea of the relative merits of a pub and will also be more objective than a satisfied regular. We also have a track record to look back over with prolific reviewers so we can assess whither we generally trust their reviews or not or whither they like the kind of pubs we do.

Having said that I find almost any review is useful in some way if approached with a critical eye so I wouldn't wish to decry anybody's review of any pub except on the grounds of allegations, irrelevance or malice.

Conrad
25-09-2011, 12:03
Have to admit I am now veering towards deleting the reply. We do say replies aren't allowed, but we tend to let that slip for people who work at the pub, as the person hasn't stated they work at the pub then it should probably go to make sure we avoid this happening too often.

I would draw a distinction between one drop reviews and one visit reviews. One drop reviews are reviewers who leave one review (generally a complaint, it is a tiny proportion of one drops that are positive let alone involved with the pub), and whatever they write is fairly meaningless for me as it has no context. If you are writing to complain, then lets face it, you are prone to ranting, I know I am, so everything written should be taken with a dose of salt. Similarly if you are writing a one drop positive review then prone to exaggeration holds just as much, if a person mentions they own/work at the pub at least it is easy to see where they are coming from, and hopefully what they are proud of in the pub so got some respect for that category of one drops.

One visit reviews are a completely different beast, unless someone writes that they are a regular I assume a review is a snapshot. And where it is from one of our prolific reviewers you can look at other reviews they have written and gain some context for their snapshot, you can know if the reviewer is looking for the same thing in pubs as you, and where you distrust their opinion. So whilst I appreciate that it was a one off experience for the reviewer I can compare it to a body of snapshots. And where they like the same sort of pubs I like then I know that these are the places I should look to for new places to visit.

So to summarise, one visit reviewers are the bread and butter of this site, they hold it together. One drop reviewers are responsible for 99% of the grief I get from running the site, not only do they do just 1 review against the 100's some of our reviewers have left, but that 1 review is worth 1% of a single review from one of our regulars.

[Edit: Dammit, posted and found that oldboots had beaten me to most of the punchlines, must type faster in future]

Farway
25-09-2011, 14:58
Sometimes of course one drop reviews do build up a picture of the place, often unfavourable

I would expect some rudeness or Fawlty trained staff here for instance (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/52677/), but in this case it may be the views / walk is worth it?

Moonraker
28-09-2011, 15:06
I find almost any review is useful in some way if approached with a critical eye so I wouldn't wish to decry anybody's review of any pub except on the grounds of allegations, irrelevance or malice.

I totally agree. I think you can usually judge the merits of a review by the way it is written. I also applaud Strongers' attitude - there is nothing to be gained in starting an argument. My reviews always focus on the beer/quality and ambience of the pub. Food, to me, is an extra, which if good, is the icing on the cake.

Conrad
30-09-2011, 13:24
XKCD (http://www.xkcd.com/) are one of the finest web comics out there, if you like humour of scientific bent then subscribing to them is a must. Today's comic said much about how I feel about the reviewer subject:

647
Direct Link (http://xkcd.com/958/)

Millay
01-10-2011, 07:22
XKCD (http://www.xkcd.com/) are one of the finest web comics out there, if you like humour of scientific bent then subscribing to them is a must. Today's comic said much about how I feel about the reviewer subject:

647
Direct Link (http://xkcd.com/958/)

:D Can't fault the logic. I suppose the pub equivalent is that you can always get served easily at the bar. You'll probably find yourself sitting in a corner with a stale pint and a bored barmaid intensely watching Trisha on daytime TV though.