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ROBCamra
12-01-2010, 08:37
I've had the desperate misfortune to be invited to the judging on Wednesday 20th Jan. :cheers:

Simon, the landlord of The Baum, has been asked to be one of the judges in the Porters section, I've agreed to carry his bag :notworthy:

This means that I get to see the judging and then the official opening ceremony (2 horse pulled drays I believe).

It also means that I get to attend the trade session at 14:30. :drinkup:

By the time it opens to the public at 17:00 I expect to be gently leaning on a wall with a silly grin on!

aleandhearty
12-01-2010, 09:08
This means that I get to see the judging

Oh you lucky, lucky bar steward. Jealous? Who me?

More seriously ROB, I'd be interested to hear what you make of the judging process and how objective you think it is. Is there blind tasting for example? I know I've touched on this before, but northern beers are woefully under represented in the annual national awards, statistically it just doesn't add up. It'll be interesting to see how things shape up in Manchester

trainman
12-01-2010, 09:10
Life is tough ROB! Tbh, though, I usually eschew 'fests concentrating on Winter ales - I just know they're gonna mess me up! I see your calculation is that you'll be en route in 2.5hours and, let's face it, you ain't leaving at 17:00 so the Thurs head may be a tad delicate. Have a great session though, I'm pleased Manchester retains this major Camra fest - did I hear it's moved venue this year?

One I am looking at is the rather smaller affair at Nottingham's Canalhouse (04-07Feb) featuring 56 SIBA winning beers. And, when looking at the Castle Rock website (it's their pub) I was surprised to see that 'spoons vouchers are being accepted throughout the Castle Rock estate!

oldboots
12-01-2010, 09:41
Definitely a lucky bar steward, I wish I were going but work gets in the way yet again :(

Tandleman, a blogging CAMRA bod in the North West has a list of some of the delights in store

read them here and weep

http://tandlemanbeerblog.blogspot.com/

ROBCamra
12-01-2010, 09:46
Life is tough ROB! Tbh, though, I usually eschew 'fests concentrating on Winter ales - I just know they're gonna mess me up! I see your calculation is that you'll be en route in 2.5hours and, let's face it, you ain't leaving at 17:00 so the Thurs head may be a tad delicate. Have a great session though, I'm pleased Manchester retains this major Camra fest - did I hear it's moved venue this year?

One I am looking at is the rather smaller affair at Nottingham's Canalhouse (04-07Feb) featuring 56 SIBA winning beers. And, when looking at the Castle Rock website (it's their pub) I was surprised to see that 'spoons vouchers are being accepted throughout the Castle Rock estate!

The Canalhouse festival was great last year. It's in a separate room above the pub with all beers on handpump.

Sadly this year it clashes with Derby Beer Fest. Whose dumb idea was that, two festivals either end of the A52 on the same days?

trainman
12-01-2010, 09:53
Sadly this year it clashes with Derby Beer Fest. Whose dumb idea was that, two festivals either end of the A52 on the same days?
Agreed - it shouldn't take much foresight to check what might be competing factors locally. But who set their date first...?

ROBCamra
12-01-2010, 11:37
:notworthy:
Definitely a lucky bar steward, I wish I were going but work gets in the way yet again :(

Tandleman, a blogging CAMRA bod in the North West has a list of some of the delights in store

read them here and weep

http://tandlemanbeerblog.blogspot.com/

Tandleman is Peter Alexander, chairman of Rochdale, Oldham and Bury Camra branch. He's also the Deputy festival organiser.:notworthy::notworthy:

hondo
12-01-2010, 13:47
:notworthy:

Tandleman is Peter Alexander, chairman of Rochdale, Oldham and Bury Camra branch. He's also the Deputy festival organiser.:notworthy::notworthy:

just replaced Stonch's blog with tandlemans :D

ROBCamra
12-01-2010, 15:37
Agreed - it shouldn't take much foresight to check what might be competing factors locally. But who set their date first...?

Last year the Derby Fest was the 1st Saturday in January as it was the 12th night festival, but the dates didn't work this year.

The Canal House festival was a week later last year.

Who knows who bid first though.

Eddie86
12-01-2010, 21:01
I'll be there, sadly not judging this one (I judged the USA at GBBF last year). If it's the same method:

Piece of paper with numbers 1 - 6 on, large enough for a glass to sit on each. 6 ales are then brought over (1 at a time), and as a group (around 6 of us) you agree on your top 3, in order.

I'll be on the train from Abergavenny and back again, I imagine with a few of the local CAMRA branch.

aleandhearty
13-01-2010, 12:37
(I judged the USA at GBBF last year). If it's the same method:

Piece of paper with numbers 1 - 6 on, large enough for a glass to sit on each. 6 ales are then brought over (1 at a time), and as a group (around 6 of us) you agree on your top 3, in order.



That sounds fair enough, but I wonder how it is decided where the judging groups come from? There are so many variables that need need to be accounted for and as yet I don't think CAMRA/ GBBF have the same level of transparency, regarding judging, as some of the big wine competitions e.g. 'Decanter' World Wine Awards.

Eddie86
19-01-2010, 17:51
I'm not sure how they select people to do the first tastings. I just happened to be walking past when they were counting heads and realised they were one short.

As I'm going up early, I thought I might, instead of drinking lots of free beer by chatting nicely to brewers I know, go around manchester a bit and visit some pubs. Any must-visits I should know about?

I will, of course, be back at the festival for when it officially opens!

oldboots
19-01-2010, 18:47
.... go around manchester a bit and visit some pubs. Any must-visits I should know about?


these are usually quoted as some of the don't miss list

Marble Arch - Rochdale Road (own brewery)
Crown & Kettle - Oldham Rd
Briton's Protection - Gt Bridgewater St (next to G-Mex)
Perverill of the Peak - Gt Bridgewater St (funny opening hours)

aleandhearty
21-01-2010, 11:53
I know I've touched on this before, but northern beers are woefully under represented in the annual national awards, statistically it just doesn't add up. It'll be interesting to see how things shape up in Manchester

Just seen on the 'aswiftone' blog that two Yorkshire beers are in the top three:

Gold: Elland 1872 Porter.
Silver: Breconshire Rambler's Ruin.
Bronze: Acorn Gorlovka Stout.

Time to put that soapbox away for a while. :)

ROBCamra
21-01-2010, 12:08
Just seen on the 'aswiftone' blog that two Yorkshire beers are in the top three:

Gold: Elland 1872 Porter.
Silver: Breconshire Rambler's Ruin.
Bronze: Acorn Gorlovka Stout.

Time to put that soapbox away for a while. :)

I said to Simon before we arrived at the festival that if Elland 1872 Porter didn't at least win it's group and finish in the top three overall I would be somewhat annoyed.

Wapping Stout and Smoked Porter both won medals in their groups as well!

ROBCamra
22-01-2010, 11:22
A photo of the judging taking place at the National Winter ales festival is below.

The guy on the left in the glasses is Simon, the landlord at The Baum.

The guy holding up the glass facing the camera is Peter Alexander, deputy festival organiser a.k.a. Tandleman

To his right on the picture is The Reverend Bracegirdle the senior judge for the porters section. :notworthy:

I'll post again to explain how the judging worked, it's a bit complicated

140

trainman
22-01-2010, 12:06
Time to put that soapbox away for a while. :)
Yeah, we'll believe that when we see it.
Or should that be when we don't see it?

aleandhearty
22-01-2010, 13:43
Yeah, we'll believe that when we see it.
Or should that be when we don't see it?

Bloody cheek! :D I tell you I can't help it. It's in a Yorkshireman's genes to be lugubrious and mithering.

ROBCamra
22-01-2010, 13:58
Bloody cheek! :D I tell you I can't help it. It's in a Yorkshireman's genes to be lugubrious and mithering.

I don't want to see anything that's in a Yorkshiremans jeans :whistle:

oldboots
22-01-2010, 14:05
I don't want to see anything that's in a Yorkshiremans jeans :whistle:

you wont see the cash out their jeans pockets if they can help it, that's for sure :D

aleandhearty
22-01-2010, 14:10
you wont see the cash out their jeans pockets if they can help it, that's for sure :D

You're supposed to be on my side seeing as we let you live in the land of broad acres. :)

oldboots
22-01-2010, 14:13
You're supposed to be on my side seeing as we let you live in the land of broad acres. :)

I am, but if we tell the truth about the generous and open handed yorkshire folk we'll have all manner of people visiting here and littering the place up, print the legend as they say. I always tell 'em how grim it is "oop north" for similar reasons.

ROBCamra
22-01-2010, 14:25
This is how the judging for the Winter Beer Festival works (I think).

The initial judging process in done within local areas and comprises of 9 regions to ensure a fair distribution across the country. These are selected through local CAMRA branches and tasting panels.

The categories are Old Ale/Strong Mild, Porter, Stout & Barley Wine/Strong Old Ale.

All the beers nominated from the regions go forward to the area tasting panels who decide which 5/6 beers in each category will go through to the final area judging. The area judging is done at the Winter Beer Festival.

The judging for the Winter Beer of Britain is also done at the festival but they are judging from the category winners for LAST YEARS area competition.

The winners in each of the categories goes through to the FOLLOWING YEARS Champion Winter Ale judging.

Hope that's all clear then. :confused::confused:

aleandhearty
25-01-2010, 14:59
Hope that's all clear then. :confused::confused:

Oh yes, absolutely!:eek: Sorry about the late reply ROB, somehow managed to overlook your post. Thanks for the breakdown.

ROBCamra
25-01-2010, 15:09
Oh yes, absolutely!:eek: Sorry about the late reply ROB, somehow managed to overlook your post. Thanks for the breakdown.

You think that's late, I still haven't written up what trainman calls "The derring do of the judging day".

I will though, I will.

ROBCamra
25-01-2010, 16:09
You think that's late, I still haven't written up what trainman calls "The derring do of the judging day".

I will though, I will.

I have, I have.

I arrived at The Baum, bright and breezy at about 10:15 and the first thing Simon (the landlord) said is “Are we having a pint before we set off?”. Having persuaded him that there would be rather a lot of beer later in the day we set off to walk up to the station. Two things to mention here. One is that Simon doesn’t walk anywhere at all in general and usually goes everywhere by taxi. The second thing is that the station is a 15 minute walk when you know where you’re going and are sober (isn’t it trainman? so how did you miss the train having allowed 25 minutes when you visited the Baum :D:D).

We caught the train into Manchester and decamped to the well known greasy spoon cafe The Abergeldie, where we both had a full English breakfast to “clear the palate”. As we had quite a bit of time in hand I talked Simon into walking to the festival!!!

We arrived at about 12:15 and we’re greeted by the fine sight of the Robinsons dray and a shire horse stood outside. All the judges (and me) got a short briefing about how the judging would work and were introduced to the chief judge for each section. Then several jugs of beer were brought out. As the chief judge said “This is a bland, inoffensive beer that will tickle your taste buds without leaving any distinctive taste”.

What a damning indictment of someone’s beer I thought, I wonder what it is? A quick foray into the room where it was being poured into the jugs revealed the answer, Cains Mild! I also managed to wangle myself 2 halves of this, despite not actually being a judge. :cheers:

Off the judges went and left me on my own for about an hour with no beer! The judging area was jealously guarded by some orange jacketed numpties. I tried to take a photograph but was told “You can’t take photographs” I asked “Why?” As he struggled to come up with an answer I took one anyway, it’s posted earlier in the thread. What a :muppet::muppet::muppet:

Once the judging had officially finished I sneaked in and joined Simon and the other judges of the porter section at their table. Simon had thoughtfully left a bit in each of his tasting glasses so I could try them, good man. The judges were then invited to have some food, very nice it was too.;)

Patsy, the brewster at Prospect brewery in Wigan then joined us for a chat :notworthy: and soon after that the trade session started. A couple of pints and a lot more halves followed. :drinkup::drinkup::drinkup:

As it was a trade session many of the brewers were there in person to see how they had got on. We were talking to Tony Allen from Phoenix brewery :notworthy: when the results were announced. The overall winning beer Elland 1872 Porter got a good round of applause and some cheering. This was nothing like as much noise as the 8 or so Breconshire bunch made when Ramblers Ruin won a medal (very good beer it was too).

After a very convivial afternoon we set off back into Manchester. As we got to the bus stop Simon flagged down a taxi (did I mention the walking bit) and we called in Odd. This is an excellent little bar in the N/4 area (northern quarter) that is well off the normal route for festival goers. It only has one handpump but the beer is always good and changes almost daily.

After a pint of Phoenix Arizona we went round the corner to The Unicorn. This is a GBG2010 listed pub and I’m not really sure why. I hoped things had improved since the last time I was in but I was disappointed. The first day of the national beer festival and they only had Bass on out of the three they normally have. It was a very average pint as well, it really shouldn’t be in the guide. :(

We trotted back to the station after that and caught the train back to the Dale. A taxi (surprise, surprise) took us back to The Baum where we had another couple of pints (things were getting a little hazy by then, so I can’t remember what they were). Simon then presented me with a beef rag pudding (ask a northerner if you don’t know) to take home for supper.:cheers:

I got home, had the rag pudding with mushy peas and apparently told the other half the same stories twice in less than an hour (surely not). I slept well that night!!

aleandhearty
25-01-2010, 17:59
Simon then presented me with a beef rag pudding (ask a northerner if you don’t know)

Must admit I didn't know. So basically it's a steak, onion and suet pudding, boiled in a pillow case. The stuff you eat, on the dark side of the Pennines! :)

trainman
25-01-2010, 19:35
I have, I have.
the station is a 15 minute walk when you know where you’re going and are sober (isn’t it trainman? so how did you miss the train having allowed 25 minutes when you visited the Baum :D:D).

Oi! It's a mile, and that's nearer 20mins for me, and I was trying to hold up my (even more) staggery mate by the back of his coat, causing us to be 'buzzed' by some Dale yoof on bikes, who thought I was dibble nicking him! We have to laugh when I ask him how his gang from the dale are gettin on...

ROBCamra
25-01-2010, 19:38
Must admit I didn't know. So basically it's a steak, onion and suet pudding, boiled in a pillow case. The stuff you eat, on the dark side of the Pennines! :)

That's right, although eating the pillow case is optional :)

ROBCamra
25-01-2010, 19:40
Oi! It's a mile, and that's nearer 20mins for me, and I was trying to hold up my (even more) staggery mate by the back of his coat, causing us to be 'buzzed' by some Dale yoof on bikes, who thought I was dibble nicking him! We have to laugh when I ask him how his gang from the dale are gettin on...

How is Neil? The only person I have met who would have chosen to wait for a train in Last Orders, the station platform would have been better. :D

trainman
25-01-2010, 21:44
How is Neil? The only person I have met who would have chosen to wait for a train in Last Orders, the station platform would have been better. :D
Yeah, he's ok, despite occasionally falling onto places like Last Orders (if that's what it was called?). No beer, I recall, so fair play to the still-hangin-around yoofs who, having now accepted I wasn't old bill & wasn't arresting anyone, were surprisingly amenable in advising that your 'spoons would still be open - something of a touch, since the trains had, by then, switched to one-per-hour and most other pubs had shut!

Soup Dragon
25-01-2010, 21:45
you wont see the cash out their jeans pockets if they can help it, that's for sure :D

Says the Scotsman!