View Full Version : One post whingers
ROBCamra
13-06-2011, 11:30
Is it just me?
It seems that quite a high percentage of the one post wonders we get on the site are women and they join the site simply to complain about the food, the function room, the waiting time for food, the parking, the toilets or the staff and management.
None of them actually review the pub and seldom if ever mention the beer.
Most of the complaints seem to concentrate on the peripheral items rather than the main point of the pub. Which in most cases is selling beer.
Why is this? Is it via Facebook? Anybody any ideas? :confused:
Brewguru
13-06-2011, 12:36
I certainy find it annoying, if you see a review for a pub you are interested in and it bangs on about food and carpets and flowers in vases but makes no mention of what beer or even fizzy stuff is on or available it is frustrating. In alot of instances it must be people with axes to grind. There is thankfully much less of it on this website, a much greater prevalence occurs on that other site. But surely any information is better than no information and it is up to us, the reader, to make what we can of these types of review.
Am sure it is not restricted to women solely, but very irritating none the less.
As a side issue if my wife goes to a pub without me she never checks what was on, I always ask her and she never makes a mental note! Back to the drawing board there, sigh.
As a side issue if my wife goes to a pub without me she never checks what was on, I always ask her and she never makes a mental note! Back to the drawing board there, sigh.
Not restricted to your wife, I often forget what was sale or what t I drank, I sometimes scribble notes but often not as I try & be "invisible" whilst quitely giving place the once over
NickDavies
13-06-2011, 14:43
Is it just me?
It seems that quite a high percentage of the one post wonders we get on the site are women and they join the site simply to complain about the food, the function room, the waiting time for food, the parking, the toilets or the staff and management.
I get the impression most of them are posted late on a Sunday after a poor family Sunday lunch experience. They may well have just fallen out with their in-laws and blamed it on the food. Although many will never figure out that the food is identical stuff from the same factory in every Vintage Toby Harvester Ember in the country and slagging the pub off won't alter that; it'll won't be any better when you take the other in-laws there next Sunday.
I find making notes of what was on in a pub spoils the experience. It's like trying to work out if the sex was good while you're having it.
I can review pubs based on multi-experiences but when I compare to other people's reviews I feel they lack something as they don't go into the specifics. I'll rarely remember what was on (unless it was highly memorable).
I also have to acknowledge that the things I like pubs for are generally not the same as the audience...
gillhalfpint
14-06-2011, 08:24
I tend to concentrate on the beer and forget to mention the surroundings - blinkered or focused - not sure. Try to see if a dartboard or pool table around, but review info drops as the day goes on for some reason.
Soup Dragon
14-06-2011, 12:02
flowers in vases
Or of course........ twigs in vases:twigs::twigs::twigs:
Lady Grey
14-06-2011, 20:08
I see The Black Bull Inn at Great Smeaton Northallerton, has come in for some stick today.
NickDavies
15-06-2011, 08:54
I see The Black Bull Inn at Great Smeaton Northallerton, has come in for some stick today.
Pity they couldn;t get their stories straight. Either 'too busy to make breakfast' or 'breakfast still being eaten at lunchtime (but what's wrong with bacon and egg for lunch?).
Only two bedrooms according to website so that's both of them accounted for I guess.
None of them actually review the pub and seldom if ever mention the beer.
What a review like
It's a hotel, it's got an overpriced bar. Go and drink somewhere better.
ROBCamra
15-06-2011, 11:21
What a review like
Personally I think that review tells you all you need to know as succinctly as possible. Everybody's been in a crap bar in a hotel and paid £4.50 for a crap beer. :D
Which hotel was that from by the way? :evilgrin:
It has been removed from Sheffield Park Hotel (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/43367/) as 'not a review'.
Interesting thread by the way, I still stand by my assertion that I prefer the idea of write what is good about a place and let the blank spaces do the talking, but I understand others don't feel the same way.
Soup Dragon
15-06-2011, 11:35
Trouble is, if you dont put something in it may be because you missed it, not that it was cr*p!
I notice the Black Bull landlady has complained of slander............................ but isn't it libel if written?
NickDavies
15-06-2011, 12:11
Trouble is, if you dont put something in it may be because you missed it, not that it was cr*p!
I notice the Black Bull landlady has complained of slander............................ but isn't it libel if written?
Libel really. You do wonder why they need to have a public slagging off session. If it was that bad - no breakfast, bog full of chunder, dogs in kitchen - you'd think they would have had a serious discussion about it when it was time to pay the bill, and the management would have headed any public slagging off at the pass with a substantial reduction or promise of a free stay next time. But maybe I'm missing something.
I notice the Black Bull landlady has complained of slander............................ but isn't it libel if written?
Shall I put that in my reply to her communication threatening to take it further?
Some days the off button on this site seems far too tempting.
ROBCamra
15-06-2011, 12:32
Some days the off button on this site seems far too tempting.
Was there a silent F before off in that comment Conrad? :p
Lady Grey
15-06-2011, 12:44
I'm learning more about the English language every day!
Soup Dragon
15-06-2011, 13:57
I dont care about brekky, sick in the bogs and dogs in kitchens....... I just want to know if there are twigs in vases:twigs:
You better be sure they really have got twigs in vases before you write that! I'm not sure I can cope with the sort of threats we would get.
What does take it further mean anyway? I am actually quite worried that someone is about to send their father over. :eek:
Looks like we have another licensee about to get threatening with us, over another one-drop. I am thinking it is time to add a guideline to make me feel a little more comfortable with deleting some of this dross.
Anyone have a problem with, or can think of a better phrasing for something like this:
Pubs Galore exists to promote good pubs, if your purpose is solely to leave negative reviews of pubs you dislike, they will be deleted.
NickDavies
18-06-2011, 16:54
Looks like we have another licensee about to get threatening with us, over another one-drop. I am thinking it is time to add a guideline to make me feel a little more comfortable with deleting some of this dross.
Anyone have a problem with, or can think of a better phrasing for something like this:
Pubs Galore exists to promote good pubs, if your purpose is solely to leave negative reviews of pubs you dislike, they will be deleted.
The usual purpose seems to be to make a one-off complaint about a bad experience rather than to leave serial negative reviews...maybe..."if your purpose is to make a complaint about a pub you should take it up with them directly. Such contributions will be deleted.
It is certainly the main purpose, and if your phrasing is preferred it works for me. I made mine a little more ambiguous to stop people telling me "it was a review not a complaint" (has happened) and also to try and imply that you should leave reviews of pubs you like.
Whilst I would prefer it if people only reviewed pubs they like I have no problem with those who are giving a balanced set of reviews. I personally have no time for those who just want to leave negative reviews however, if that is your experience of pubs, then stop going to them and don't moan at us - if however you know there are good pubs, tell us about those (as well as the bad if you must ;)).
Also there is the reality that I just don't want to put up with the licensees moaning at me for trying to ruin their business. You wonder how many of these reviewers would leave that review if they had to publish their address next to them.
Edit:
I actually do believe that Pubs Galore is here to promote good pubs as well, if it was just about reviewing pubs we would close the site, it costs money to run so why bother with it? There is an element of love in there somewhere, and in that respect I believe it is about rewarding the pubs that are providing a good experience. I accept if people don't need that forced down their throat in the guidelines though.
oldboots
18-06-2011, 20:00
Conrad, I think you've gone off half cocked... yet again;)
I love pubs and I want to celebrate whatever is good about any pub I visit. When I review a pub I try to be balanced and describe what the pub is like; I try not to be gratuitously nasty or to include comments for effect or colour. A simple honest description while giving a realistic impression of the establishment is my aim. I write what I see and what I think, I may occasionally lapse with what I might think is "a well turned phrase" rather than the plain unvarnished truth but I always strive for honesty.
I use the site to gain honest impressions of what a pub is like, I don't care if someone's tastes are not my tastes, I want to know from a review what the place is like, what drinks I can expect and their quality, what the service is like and what the usual customers are like; most especially I want to know has it got bloody candles on the tables or fairy lights and twigs?
and that's what I try to do in my reviews and what I hope for in others.
If this ever became a place where I could only find anodyne, gutless comments that tell me nothing about what a pub is like I wouldn't bother contributing or reading the contributions of others. I for one am perfectly capable of discerning the difference between a one drop reviewer, a licensee indulging in some marketing and a "proper" review.
If this site is not about "reviews" ie an informed, impartial, thoughtful and factual description of the good and bad aspects of businesses that are asking to take my or anyone else's money then it's only a catalogue of outlets that people want to promote and you should be charging for that as a service.
Maldenman
18-06-2011, 20:32
Not straightforward this one at all. There is a whole world of difference between the one drop disgruntled reviewer who has just had a crap meal/been barred or thrown out/not been allowed to take their baby or dog in or whatever and the contributor who has reviewed a number of pubs and written as they found. I would suggest that generally if a regular poster writes that something wasn't actually that good then perhaps it wasn't and the truth is enough. If the pub owner/manager doesn't like that then tough, it is most likely to be true though. The one droppers generally will only do the one post, perhaps a few under pseudonyms but then they tend to go. I really see no issue with deleting these and to be fair we do self police and flag dodgy reviews up quickly in general.
Personally I tend to be as positive as I can but sometimes things are not good. I will report poor and indifferent service, stupid rules and regulations or a dubious clientele. I'd be less likely to comment on say beer quality as it could easily be a one-off and not the pub's fault. Having said that a comment about negative issues would not be my sole point as I would describe the whole experience.
Part of the reason of me using this site apart from the tremendous enjoyment it offers is as a valued reference point from other reviewers I trust. If a regular on here says the beer's good, the pub is nice and friendly I'll probably put it on my list for when I'm nearby. If the opposite is clear then I'll give it a miss. Surely that's one of the main points?
As for one droppers or self promoters they are obvious and easily avoided and ignored.
Umm did you actually read my post oldboots, what have I said that disagrees with your rather extended statement? I would be grateful if you could explain how my one sentence guideline rules out any of what you said.
Please forget I mentioned anything, since this is clearly already degenerated into the "How dare you censor me" tack, rather than addressing the actual issue of how we stop this site getting sued and consequently closed.
Maldenman
18-06-2011, 22:35
If we need a statement then I think Nick's version is fine maybe tweaked as you see fit. I wouldn't like to see a statement that would put off a genuine new site member who felt that what they said would be overly scrutinised and subject to censure. Without going around in too many circles perhaps the only other solution is to put new members under moderation until they've submitted say 5, 10 reviews but this is extra work for you admin people.
Perhaps a Code of Conduct could be formulated which is sent on auto....if its easy....when a new member registers, and included in that is a cooling period whereby registration is accepted but posting cannot commence for say 24 hours? ie when they may have chilled a bit. Just a suggestion in this debate, I'm no Techie if it is impossible to do.
Generally I think the way things work at the moment is about right - however, I would like to make sure we still have a site in two years time and Conrad and Dave need to make a living (and how much potential development time is wasted responding to irked landlords and the like?)
Currently a gap is there for an up to date, friendly and reliable pub listings site with genuine reviews (I notice that the other site, despite their new footer and reactivated blog, are still failing to do some really basic things...).
If we all keep working together, I'm confident this site will really start to take off :)
If we need a statement then I think Nick's version is fine maybe tweaked as you see fit. I wouldn't like to see a statement that would put off a genuine new site member who felt that what they said would be overly scrutinised and subject to censure.
I'm not sure if people are realising, there are already guidelines, all this would be would to add another bullet point to the end of them. If you look at the add review button there is a link to them there.
Thanks Quinno for the vote of confidence, it is far more inspiring than being told I have gone off half cocked (even in jest) for explaining the rational behind my phrasing.
I'm not sure if people are realising, there are already guidelines, all this would be would to add another bullet point to the end of them. If you look at the add review button there is a link to them there.
I'd noticed the guidelines and they look sensible. I'm not sure they'll make much difference to the twitteranti or those returning from a particularly poor Sunday lunch experience.
Conrad, I'm sensing that, as well as being informative, you also see these guidelines as a defensive measure against the litigious. This is the www so people can actually post what they want. But provided the site has provided guidelines as to what is and is not acceptable, and makes a reasonable attempt at 'keeping it clean', then I'd have thought the site has a pretty defendable case.
I'd be interested in your thoughts Conrad, and those of others of course.
I believe that no one has had a go at ansering Robs original question...
Why is this? Is it via Facebook?
I think the answer is ... yes.
I'd noticed the guidelines and they look sensible. I'm not sure they'll make much difference to the twitteranti or those returning from a particularly poor Sunday lunch experience.
Conrad, I'm sensing that, as well as being informative, you also see these guidelines as a defensive measure against the litigious. This is the www so people can actually post what they want. But provided the site has provided guidelines as to what is and is not acceptable, and makes a reasonable attempt at 'keeping it clean', then I'd have thought the site has a pretty defendable case.
I'd be interested in your thoughts Conrad, and those of others of course.
The Guidelines are intended as just that guidelines on how you review. I guess the major issue is that when we delete reviews we explain why we do it and this explanation gets sent to the reviewer, we do this because we think that remaining transparent is the right way to do things. The inevitable next step is that the reviewer contacts us and tells us how we are morons and their review was completely legitimate (if I had any sense I would reply and point them at our forum as they would fit right in here) and that they will never leave another review on our site, a great loss as I am sure you will all appreciate. Now there is obviously nothing stopping us deleting any old review we want in reality, but it is nice if we have at least attempted to advise them that if you behave inappropriately you will be deleted, and that is where the guidelines come in.
In terms of the litigious, they make no difference, broadly speaking as long as we can be contacted, and we make every effort to address any concerns in a timely manner then there is no case against us - and where there is we can then sue the poster assuming we can track them down. The simple truth is though if we get sued the site is being closed and we throw in the towel, there is no defence fund. The advertising on the site doesn't even cover the cost of hosting it, every month me and Dave effectively dip into our pockets to keep it running. Now clearly we wont be complaining if it ever does make money (although I am buggered if I know how that is going to happen), but it doesn't alter the reality of the situation that it won't exist at all if a licensee gets wound up to the point where they sue.
Anyway, forget I mentioned it, I will certainly be doing my best to forget I mentioned it.
I believe that no one has had a go at ansering Robs original question...
Why is this? Is it via Facebook?
I think the answer is ... yes.
Nick (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?7478-One-post-whingers&p=33596#post33596) actually made a damn good stab at it. As far as we can tell he is pretty much spot on.
Whilst Facebook may facilitate a few of the posters as it makes registration as simple as one click it is far more to do with a slightly improved visibility on Google allowing these posters to find our site on those Sunday afternoons.
gillhalfpint
19-06-2011, 11:07
This female is about to go out for Sunday lunch to the Star at Vogue where they serve good beer and excellent pensioners 2 course lunch for £6.50 with choice of meats for the lunch and selection of puds to drool over.
There is often a twig on the table but no candles or fairy lights.
The insults are mutually bandied about between the staff and customers making a great friendly atmosphere.
Car park often shared with the local petange teams who have their boules matches there.
Carry on your debates in my absence - will catch up with you again later. Seconds out..............
NickDavies
19-06-2011, 15:03
Father's day strikes....
The Greyhound Inn (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/61016/)
This female is about to go out for Sunday lunch to the Star at Vogue where they serve good beer and excellent pensioners 2 course lunch for £6.50 with choice of meats for the lunch and selection of puds to drool over.
There is often a twig on the table but no candles or fairy lights.
The insults are mutually bandied about between the staff and customers making a great friendly atmosphere.
Car park often shared with the local petange teams who have their boules matches there.
Carry on your debates in my absence - will catch up with you again later. Seconds out..............
As per Sam Goldwyn, include me out
NickDavies
29-08-2011, 16:18
Bank holiday lunchtime strikes again
Botley Hill Farmhouse (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/53337/)
http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs/s/21/21140/Botley_Hill_Farmhouse/Warlingham
Bank holiday lunchtime strikes again
Botley Hill Farmhouse (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/53337/)
http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs/s/21/21140/Botley_Hill_Farmhouse/Warlingham
Alas they neglected to mention the 7 Jaegerbombs, table dancing and spewing up over the bar later on. Coyness...
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