View Full Version : In the Hop Garden
Not exactly pubs or beer, but a few pictures from a local hop garden on a fine early summer afternoon...
Wittenden
04-06-2011, 22:30
They're certainly romping away this year,despite the drought: the neighbour's Admirals reached the top of the wirework in late May-the traditional date was Midsummer's Day.
They're certainly romping away this year,despite the drought: the neighbour's Admirals reached the top of the wirework in late May-the traditional date was Midsummer's Day.
And the daffs were four weeks late, that's global worming for you :D :D
aleandhearty
06-06-2011, 13:08
Not exactly pubs or beer, but a few pictures from a local hop garden on a fine early summer afternoon...
Ooh! I do like a bit of hop porn. Do happen to know the names of the saucy little minxes? :D
Ooh! I do like a bit of hop porn. Do happen to know the names of the saucy little minxes? :D
Organic Wye Target...
Strongers
06-06-2011, 21:41
Whilst we're on a gardening theme I thought that I'd bring this one up (http://www.richmondandtwickenhamtimes.co.uk/news/4370269.Fuller_s_wisteria_is_oldest_in_Britain/). Not a hop garden, but a hop heaven - for some anyway.
Wittenden
06-06-2011, 21:58
Organic Wye Target...
In Mr Hall's garden? A very brave man, as hops are prey to all types of noxoius bugs. I thought that they were organic , as I noticed that my neighbour had sprayed off the bottom of his bines. I think Jody Scheckter grows some organic hops at Laverstoke-anyone tried his organic ale and lager? We might be over that way this weekend-I'll try to dive into the farmshop.
In Mr Hall's garden?
Indeed...
I think Jody Scheckter grows some organic hops at Laverstoke-anyone tried his organic ale and lager?
Had a bottle of the Organic Ale a few months ago. I hadn't heard of Laverstock Park Farm at the time, but the label was interesting and led me to look the place up on the internet - quite an operation being developed there...
Wittenden
05-09-2012, 19:14
Thought I'd revive this thread: Eddie Gadd of Gadds brewery posted this: http://gaddsbeershop.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/blog-post.html
I'm not sure if our neighbour has started picking yet-I should think he has, but I haven't been past this week.
PaulOfHorsham
05-09-2012, 20:39
Looks like he'll be getting the ingredients in for a green-hopped ale - will you be supporting the Kent Green Hop Beer Fortnight (http://kentgreenhopbeer.com/) - seems to be centred around Canterbury.
Mobyduck
05-09-2012, 21:21
Soon be time for Darkstars Green Hopped I.P.A. Best dust off the crash helmet.:drinkup:::drinkup::drinkup:
PaulOfHorsham
06-09-2012, 19:23
Soon be time for Darkstars Green Hopped I.P.A.
Already planning my trip to the HopFest (http://darkstarbrewing.co.uk/hopfest/)!
Mobyduck
06-09-2012, 19:54
Already planning my trip to the HopFest (http://darkstarbrewing.co.uk/hopfest/)!
Extremely jealous ,unavoidably working all that weekend.:moremad:
Wittenden
06-09-2012, 22:10
Looks like he'll be getting the ingredients in for a green-hopped ale - will you be supporting the Kent Green Hop Beer Fortnight (http://kentgreenhopbeer.com/) - seems to be centred around Canterbury.
Don't think I'll be able to get to Canterbury, but I'll try to wangle a trip to a LocALE pub somewhere in Kent.
Hops still in the garden today...
"the Strisselspalt hop"
http://www.marketingmagazine.co.uk/news/1149181/Kronenbourg-1664-revamp-highlight-provenance-taste/?DCMP=ILC-SEARCH
good response from Pete Brown
Marstons did a single-hop Strisselspalt beer earlier this year. Whilst not particularly memorable, it was certainly more interesting than a pint of Kronenbourg...
Mobyduck
23-09-2012, 21:19
More hop stuff (http://www.hand-pumped.com/news_pages/news_page_02_230912.htm)
aleandhearty
24-09-2012, 09:10
More hop stuff (http://www.hand-pumped.com/news_pages/news_page_02_230912.htm)
I'm sure there are quite a few Yorkshire drinkers who wish Ossett would start tipping a few more hops into their brews.
Mobyduck
24-09-2012, 09:47
I'm sure there are quite a few Yorkshire drinkers who wish Ossett would start tipping a few more hops into their brews.
I wish I would see more Ossett down my way,usually only get some at beer festivals,all for more hops though.
aleandhearty
24-09-2012, 11:00
I wish I would see more Ossett down my way,usually only get some at beer festivals,all for more hops though.
I guess there's an element of familiarity breeds contempt, MD. They do actually brew some good beers - Silver King, Excelsior and Treacle Stout are great, if in good nick. However, they are also guilty of churning out endless indifferent pale seasonals around 4%, that just merge into each other, character wise. Then again the celebratory B2K was magnificent and Revolution IPA and Quicksilver are far too good to be occasional brews. Overall, I think other local breweries such as Mallinsons, Magic Rock and Kirkstall have overtaken them. If they have any insight, it might give them a kick up the jacksie.
Wittenden
24-09-2012, 12:31
I wish I would see more Ossett down my way,usually only get some at beer festivals,all for more hops though.
Not quite sure where you are based, but isn't there some kind of link-up between Ossett and Fuller Smith and Turner?
I enjoyed Ossett Silver King the last time I was in York.
oldboots
24-09-2012, 15:31
... isn't there some kind of link-up between Ossett and Fuller Smith and Turner?
There is, London Pride is on in my local Ossett owned pub as a regular beer and we get Fullers seasonals in there very often.
Mobyduck
24-09-2012, 19:53
Not quite sure where you are based, but isn't there some kind of link-up between Ossett and Fuller Smith and Turner?
I enjoyed Ossett Silver King the last time I was in York.
That's Interesting,I wasn't aware of that,living in the Surrey/Hant's Borders area,(the Hant's end) there is quite a few Fullers outlets not too faraway,mostly ex-Gales pubs which aren't my first port of call as I think the general range of Fullers ales are pretty run of the mill, the outstanding London Porter being an exception,maybe I should investigate further.
london calling
24-09-2012, 20:01
I rather like Ossett beers.the Fullers tie is that Ossett removed a regular beer from its pubs(timothy taylors maybe)and installed London Pride so Fullers rather than bring back empty lorries when delivering sometimes bring back Ossett beer.often seen around west london Fullers pubs.
Mobyduck
24-09-2012, 20:04
I guess there's an element of familiarity breeds contempt, MD. They do actually brew some good beers - Silver King, Excelsior and Treacle Stout are great, if in good nick. However, they are also guilty of churning out endless indifferent pale seasonals around 4%, that just merge into each other, character wise. Then again the celebratory B2K was magnificent and Revolution IPA and Quicksilver are far too good to be occasional brews. Overall, I think other local breweries such as Mallinsons, Magic Rock and Kirkstall have overtaken them. If they have any insight, it might give them a kick up the jacksie.
To be honest I only remember drinking the Silver King at the Woking Beer Festival one year, I'm sure I must have encounterd Ossett elsewhere but don't recall,I take the point about familiarity,breweries fairly local to me,Triple fff and West Berks aren't bad but can become run of the mill when drunk on a regular basis.I have had some Magic Rock Dark Arts recently and was very impressed.
london calling
24-09-2012, 20:15
Looks like he'll be getting the ingredients in for a green-hopped ale - will you be supporting the Kent Green Hop Beer Fortnight (http://kentgreenhopbeer.com/) - seems to be centred around Canterbury.
the Bricklayers Arms putney has 12 green hopped beers at their fest this week starts wed but the green hop beers wont be on till friday .they are not allowed to sell them before Canterbury fest begins.
Al 10000
25-09-2012, 16:10
I guess there's an element of familiarity breeds contempt, MD. They do actually brew some good beers
This is'nt a dig at you aleandhearty but why do people think that if a beer is readily available then it is not a decent drink,if that is the case then new brewerys would have to keep opening all the time to keep certain people happy about not drinking the same drinks all the time.
I am happy drinking a beer i like on a regular basis,if it is a drink that i like then i carry on liking it i dont get bored with it,i enjoyed drinking Shipstones and Home in the 80s and Youngs and Holts in the 90s and now living very close to Nottingham the beer you see on the bar most regulary is Castle Rock Harvest Pale,this is a really nice beer and i will never get bored of drinking it.
Mobyduck
25-09-2012, 21:04
This is'nt a dig at you aleandhearty but why do people think that if a beer is readily available then it is not a decent drink,if that is the case then new brewerys would have to keep opening all the time to keep certain people happy about not drinking the same drinks all the time.
I am happy drinking a beer i like on a regular basis,if it is a drink that i like then i carry on liking it i dont get bored with it,i enjoyed drinking Shipstones and Home in the 80s and Youngs and Holts in the 90s and now living very close to Nottingham the beer you see on the bar most regulary is Castle Rock Harvest Pale,this is a really nice beer and i will never get bored of drinking it.
I currently drink Darkstar beers until it comes out of my ears and have done for a few years now with no sign (and none expected) of being bored of it, I do think some breweries can rest on their laurels and loose their way,not Darkstar or Castle Rock, Harvest Pale is up there with the best.
Wittenden
25-09-2012, 22:14
More news of the Canterbury GreenHop bash. I don't think I'll get to Canterbury, but I'm working on a greenhop outing. Howard Batt who has supplied some of the hops farms just down the road from us:top man.
http://kentgreenhopbeer.com/2012/09/25/the-kent-green-hop-beers-of-2012/
aleandhearty
26-09-2012, 11:43
I guess there's an element of familiarity breeds contempt, MD. They do actually brew some good beers - Silver King, Excelsior and Treacle Stout are great, if in good nick. However, they are also guilty of churning out endless indifferent pale seasonals around 4%, that just merge into each other, character wise.
This is'nt a dig at you aleandhearty but why do people think that if a beer is readily available then it is not a decent drink,if that is the case then new brewerys would have to keep opening all the time to keep certain people happy about not drinking the same drinks all the time.
Just to re-iterate, the main thrust of my whine against Ossett is the fact that they churn out too many insipid occasional brews. This is a view held by quite a few people in the pubs I frequent. Unfortunately, it does tend to impart a slightly jaundiced view of the brewery as a whole, despite the strength of their core brews.
Al,regarding your point about new breweries opening all the time, I don't really follow your logic. If multi pumped venues have a constantly rotating stock of guest beers, surely they provide enough choice for the drinker?
I guess it's horses for courses, but my drinking patterns have changed considerably over the last twenty years. At one time Landlord, or Ind Coope Burton Ale were my beers and I'd drink virtually nothing else. However,we live in a golden age for beer lovers. My usual mini-crawl of four pubs has thirty two pumps between them. Even if they all sold a couple of the same regular beers, I wouldn't want to drink them. I love variety and searching for the next WOW! find. (However, that's not to say I must drink totally new beers every session). Otherwise, how do you come across beers such as High Wire, The Accomplice etc?
Other factors are that I like to support small breweries and a nagging fear that this golden age isn't going to last forever.
trainman
26-09-2012, 12:18
...and a nagging fear that this golden age isn't going to last forever.
:eek: Say it aint so Joe...!
and a nagging fear that this golden age isn't going to last forever.
"I remember about the rabbits, George." "The hell with the rabbits. That’s all you can ever remember is them rabbits." :whistle: :nishelypished:
Mobyduck
26-09-2012, 13:29
"I remember about the rabbits, George." "The hell with the rabbits. That’s all you can ever remember is them rabbits." :whistle: :nishelypished:
"Well,we aint got any" George exploded. :D
Al 10000
26-09-2012, 16:34
Just to re-iterate, the main thrust of my whine against Ossett is the fact that they churn out too many insipid occasional brews. This is a view held by quite a few people in the pubs I frequent. Unfortunately, it does tend to impart a slightly jaundiced view of the brewery as a whole, despite the strength of their core brews.
Al,regarding your point about new breweries opening all the time, I don't really follow your logic. If multi pumped venues have a constantly rotating stock of guest beers, surely they provide enough choice for the drinker?
I guess it's horses for courses, but my drinking patterns have changed considerably over the last twenty years. At one time Landlord, or Ind Coope Burton Ale were my beers and I'd drink virtually nothing else. However,we live in a golden age for beer lovers. My usual mini-crawl of four pubs has thirty two pumps between them.
I was trying to make the point that if you want to have a different drink whenever you go in a pub at some point you would have drunk all the beers from the brewerys so more would have to keep opening to satify your need for more new beers.
I do take your point about it being hosres for courses,i am probably a bit different to most regular forum users,if i go in a local pub,there is a Spoons less than 5 minutes walk from my house with 10 different beers on i will try one if it tastes good then i will stick with that beer while i am in there.
My original point was not directed to you but to some others on the forum who think if a beer is readily available then it is a boring beer because you can find a drink of it in lots of their local pubs.
Mobyduck
26-09-2012, 19:24
My original point was not directed to you but to some others on the forum who think if a beer is readily available then it is a boring beer because you can find a drink of it in lots of their local pubs.
Some beers are boring not because they are readily available but because they are bland uninteresting middle of the road beers designed to keep the mainstream happy of which there are more than people who like beers with a bit of taste and edge about them, the former I am talking about are beers such as Bombardier ,Spitfire,Doom Bar, Greene King IPA,mass produced rubbish in my opinion,the chicken Korma's of the beer world. Now some people obviously like them hence their popularity, I dont dislike chicken korma but when out for a ruby, nine times out of ten would be more adventurous.My favourite brewery is Darkstar ,firstly because all their beers are bloody good, but also because they are readily available to me in the south east, whereas beers from brewers like Marble,Thornbridge and Magic Rock plus many others are harder to come by in my locality without trips to the likes of London or Brighton for example which unfortunately I cant afford to do more than once a month or two, so some of these lesser tasted beers build up a certain sense of mysticism about them.
Anyway enough of all that deep rubbish,at the end of the day you either like,or not, a beer because you actually like it (or not), not on the frequency of its availability.
london calling
26-09-2012, 20:56
i prefer to try new beers and with about 8000 different beers brewed every year its unlikely i will have to resort to the mainstream beers ever again.is it not the case that when you get really good beers like Dark Star regularly its impossible to go back to bland beers like doombar etc.i regularly drank Fullers beers for twenty years until i started using a pub with ever changing guests.have say i have drank a lot of poor beers from poor brewers but the good ones make up for it.
Mobyduck
26-09-2012, 21:12
is it not the case that when you get really good beers like Dark Star regularly its impossible to go back to bland beers like doombar etc.
You have to be pretty desperate to do so ,or very disappointed if that's the only choice.
http://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/Opinion/Pete-Brown/Hop-portunity-knocks-in-Slovenia-for-UK-brewers
london calling
27-09-2012, 18:47
having tasted greene king -ipa gold i think the head brewer has wasted his time looking for a new hop for his beer.
Mobyduck
27-09-2012, 19:20
having tasted greene king -ipa gold i think the head brewer has wasted his time looking for a new hop for his beer.
I think he's wasting his time full stop.
Wittenden
02-10-2012, 21:57
Kent Green hop festival:list of participating pubs-some not even in Kent!
http://kentgreenhopbeer.com/2012/10/02/kent-green-hop-beer-fortnight-continues-in-the-countys-pubs/
"When the annual hop harvest comes, it brings with it a four week window of opportunity for brewers to make the ultimate seasonal beer"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2012/oct/05/autumn-ales-season-fresh-hops?newsfeed=true
Mobyduck
08-10-2012, 20:38
English hops under threat!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/oct/08/british-beer-makers-fight-foreign-hops?newsfeed=true
" We’re using the hops at 3 stages in the brew to bring out as much of it’s character as we can."
http://adnams.co.uk/about/news/beer-news/fergus-on-english-hops-alpha-acids-adnams-english-red-ale/
aleandhearty
04-11-2012, 17:32
" We’re using the hops at 3 stages in the brew to bring out as much of it’s character as we can."
http://adnams.co.uk/about/news/beer-news/fergus-on-english-hops-alpha-acids-adnams-english-red-ale/
The article states there's no such thing as English Red ale. However, that hasn't stopped the brewers! I really enjoyed BrewDog '5am Saint' when it was availible in cask and more recently Magic Rock 'Rapture' and Rat 'Red Rat'. Be interesting to try this Adnams version.
"Looking at the growing season in the UK it is fair to say that the weather has not been normal or easy when it comes to growing hops."
http://charlesfaram.co.uk/news/entryid/7/northern-hemisphere-harvest-report-october-2012
Wittenden
03-12-2012, 22:02
"Looking at the growing season in the UK it is fair to say that the weather has not been normal or easy when it comes to growing hops."
http://charlesfaram.co.uk/news/entryid/7/northern-hemisphere-harvest-report-october-2012
I was talking to my neighbour who grows hops (strictly speaking he was talking to me), who said that the season was pretty bloody awful, but that the rain and what sun there was in August encouraged the hops to fill out well. Interestingly, he said most of his Goldings were exported to the USA: perhaps drinkers there are now wanting beer that tastes of hops rather than "tropical fruit", whatever that may be!
The home of British Hops
http://www.britishhops.org.uk/
"A short history of hops"
http://zythophile.wordpress.com/2009/11/20/a-short-history-of-hops/
A rather bleak outlook across the hop garden this afternoon...
"wonderful new British hops with flavour profiles we haven’t tasted before, complimenting the traditional varieties we’re rightly famous for. "
http://www.pencilandspoon.com/2013/02/hop-oz97a-rejected-in-1960-rejoiced-in.html
london calling
27-02-2013, 20:38
"wonderful new British hops with flavour profiles we haven’t tasted before, complimenting the traditional varieties we’re rightly famous for. "
http://www.pencilandspoon.com/2013/02/hop-oz97a-rejected-in-1960-rejoiced-in.html
Thats a really good article following on from the one in BEER magazine but they did not mention that American and NewZealand hops are a lot cheaper to buy thats one of the main reasons for their popularity.
"the result will be unknown until the yeast has done its job"
http://www.quantumbrewingcompany.co.uk/
"East Kent Goldings win protected name status"
http://www.thegrocer.co.uk/topics/east-kent-hops-win-protected-name-status/348142.article
" the blessing of the hops takes place "
http://www.kentnews.co.uk/leisure/hop_festival_fans_invited_to_help_make_event_a_suc cess_1_2348219
london calling
27-08-2013, 21:28
" the blessing of the hops takes place "
http://www.kentnews.co.uk/leisure/hop_festival_fans_invited_to_help_make_event_a_suc cess_1_2348219
I see that included in the entertainment is that great old Kent tradition .A display of the Haka by the local rugby club.They will frighten all the Morris dancers surely.
oldboots
27-08-2013, 21:39
I see that included in the entertainment is that great old Kent tradition .A display of the Haka by the local rugby club.They will frighten all the Morris dancers surely.
I doubt there is much that will frighten a Morrisman, dealing with flying pickaxe handles when you've had a half gallon of the pub's strongest ale is "character building" unless Morrismen have become enfeebled as is the modern way. Anyway a load of daft blokes sticking their tongues out and being shouty isn't terribly scary, now the 13th Foot & Mouth Highlanders raising their kilts - that's scary :eek:
I doubt there is much that will frighten a Morrisman, dealing with flying pickaxe handles when you've had a half gallon of the pub's strongest ale is "character building" unless Morrismen have become enfeebled as is the modern way. Anyway a load of daft blokes sticking their tongues out and being shouty isn't terribly scary, now the 13th Foot & Mouth Highlanders raising their kilts - that's scary :eek:
"Fakir! Off!" :o
I doubt there is much that will frighten a Morrisman, dealing with flying pickaxe handles when you've had a half gallon of the pub's strongest ale is "character building" unless Morrismen have become enfeebled as is the modern way. Anyway a load of daft blokes sticking their tongues out and being shouty isn't terribly scary, now the 13th Foot & Mouth Highlanders raising their kilts - that's scary :eek:
The Morris side shown in the picture are the (locally in)famous Seven Champions. If you see them, and the molly - the one at the front with a broom - invites you to participate, then on no account accept his offer (however much you may have had to drink and how bold you think you are)!
gillhalfpint
29-08-2013, 08:29
The Morris side shown in the picture are the (locally in)famous Seven Champions. If you see them, and the molly - the one at the front with a broom - invites you to participate, then on no account accept his offer (however much you may have had to drink and how bold you think you are)!
My friend from Texas who had not seen Morris Men before joined in with them at Plymouth beer festival and got away with knuckles intact. He was told there are Morris Dancers around in the states.
The two fools in the middle, at today's Faversham Hop Festival, didn't listen to my advice...
Wittenden
03-09-2013, 22:02
Neighbour's started picking-I could hear the burners and fans this evening.Not long until Kent Green Hop Festival.http://kentgreenhopbeer.com/
Wittenden
11-09-2013, 13:18
Hops grown in God's own county :http://www.eastyorkshirehops.co.uk/3.html
"Britain’s most northerly hop plantation and the first commercial one in Yorkshire"
http://m.yorkpress.co.uk/news/10678930.Drinkers_to_enjoy_some_of_Yorkshire___s_f irst_entirely_home_grown_beers/?ref=twt&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
"Britain’s most northerly hop plantation and the first commercial one in Yorkshire"
http://m.yorkpress.co.uk/news/10678930.Drinkers_to_enjoy_some_of_Yorkshire___s_f irst_entirely_home_grown_beers/?ref=twt&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Global warming (or climate change, if you prefer), so when do we see hops being grown in the Orkneys...
gillhalfpint
18-09-2013, 07:14
I loved our tour to a hop farm in Herefordshire. We went there for around 3 hours of interesting information seeing round the fields for the tall and short hop set ups, the machinery used after picking and drying room. Worth doing a tour if one in your area.
"there are 23 different varieties grown in Britain"
http://protzonbeer.co.uk/features/2013/09/18/picking-a-fight-ali-capper-leads-the-battle-to-boost-the-fortunes-of-home-grown-hops
http://www.britishhops.org.uk/
"brewed with fresh hops – picked one day and used the next"
http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/business/10708103.Saltaire_Brewery_is_not_caught_on_the_hop _/
Wittenden
09-10-2013, 22:05
A word from one of my brewing heroes:http://gaddsbeershop.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/green-hop-brewing-days.html
Unfortunately, I haven't managed to drink any of his green hop beers yet this year.
Mobyduck
16-11-2013, 20:57
Some great photos from the past, http://spitalfieldslife.com/2013/09/13/hop-picking-pictures/ http://spitalfieldslife.com/2013/09/14/more-hop-picking-pictures/
Talking of hop gardens, the other day I was wandering around a bit of my garden I don't often visit, and I found wild hops growing up one of my apples trees. I certainly didn't put them there, I have no idea what variety they are, but they were very fragrant and a pleasant surprise - I might well make some homebrew with them next year if they come back. Has anyone else found wild hops on apple trees before?
Wittenden
24-01-2014, 19:28
Talking of hop gardens, the other day I was wandering around a bit of my garden I don't often visit, and I found wild hops growing up one of my apples trees. I certainly didn't put them there, I have no idea what variety they are, but they were very fragrant and a pleasant surprise - I might well make some homebrew with them next year if they come back. Has anyone else found wild hops on apple trees before?
They'll climb up anything! They'll probably be a "seedling", ie not a named variety, but could well be useful: a retired hopgrower near here is propagating a hop found in the hedge, and Old Dairy are using it in their occasional "Wild Hop". Not bad, as I recall.
Wittenden
24-01-2014, 19:29
Saw the neighbour tidying up his roadside garden-Admiral, I think. Start of the hopgrower's year.
Wittenden
08-02-2014, 22:36
Drove past the National Trust run hopgardens at Finchcocks and Little Scotney. The Teise had burst its banks, and flooding was widespread.
"Today the figure stands at just"
http://protzonbeer.co.uk/features/2014/04/03/hopping-for-the-best-to-save-beer-flavour
"brewing revolution has triggered a shift away "
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-27421779
aleandhearty
19-05-2014, 12:53
"brewing revolution has triggered a shift away "
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-27421779
Do you think a hop shortage might cause a hipster shortage? Please, God !!
"basically here just for mankind's beery satisfaction"
http://www.seriouseats.com/2014/05/different-types-of-hops-what-hops-taste-like-saaz-fuggle-cascade-citra-beer-flavors.html
Wittenden
15-06-2014, 22:32
Hops on the meridean:http://icipints.wordpress.com/2014/06/13/green-fingers-in-greenwich-meantime-establishes-hop-farm-on-the-meridian/
Sounds fun. Aren't Meantime fizz merchants?
london calling
16-06-2014, 22:21
Hops on the meridean:http://icipints.wordpress.com/2014/06/13/green-fingers-in-greenwich-meantime-establishes-hop-farm-on-the-meridian/
Sounds fun. Aren't Meantime fizz merchants?
Very impressive .A brewery with a capacity of 1.5 million pints a week is growing enough hops for 1750 pints of beer.9 pounds of hops cost about £180 pounds according to my calculations.Self promotion stunt?
"Curb Pilots, Trouser Trumpets and Green Diesel"
http://www.canterburytimes.co.uk/Hop-Festival-comes-Faversham/story-22787660-detail/story.html
http://spitalfieldslife.com/2014/09/05/hop-picking-portraits/
london calling
10-09-2014, 20:07
http://spitalfieldslife.com/2014/09/05/hop-picking-portraits/
That's a nice article.They didn't have hops where I grew up in Scotland but we went picking raspberries and strawberries.Cheap labour,hard work but lots of laughs and rain.
http://www.abbeydalebrewery.co.uk/blog/post/?id=187&blog=Albion-Ales--origins-of-a-name
http://www.abbeydalebrewery.co.uk/blog/post/?id=185&blog=Hopping-down-to-Hereford
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29456440
Wittenden
11-12-2014, 17:03
I've just read the hop related chapter of this Report from Nuffield Scholar,hop and fruit grower and luminary of the British Hop Association Ali Capper,who examines ways of promoting the British Hop industry.As with most British institutions, the answer lies in a niche. She goes on to discuss the cider, culinary and dessert apple market. http://nuffieldinternational.org/rep_pdf/1416931256AliCappereditedreport.pdf
oldboots
23-01-2015, 13:20
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/11360318/The-patriotic-pint-10-best-beers-made-with-British-hops.html
Wittenden
22-03-2015, 18:03
Drove along my favourite grape ,chestnut and hop lane on Friday:the Hukins have strung their hops , and the grapes are pruned, ready for more clement weather.In other news,I moved my Golding hop away from the veg garden. Just beginning to shoot.
Wittenden
10-04-2015, 22:29
Coming to a hop garden near me:http://gaddsbeershop.blogspot.co.uk/
http://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/Drinks/Beer/How-hoppy-craft-beer-is-set-to-change?utm_source=copyright&utm_medium=OnSite&utm_campaign=copyright
Wittenden
27-11-2015, 08:09
http://boakandbailey.com/2015/11/hop-shortage-already-biting/ Hmm,like what the man said about malt...
Mobyduck
27-11-2015, 19:49
http://boakandbailey.com/2015/11/hop-shortage-already-biting/ Hmm,like what the man said about malt...
Malt? :confused: :evilgrin:
london calling
27-11-2015, 21:06
Would that be the same hop shortage as was reported for 2015 and 2014 and 2013 and 2012 .I didn't type in anymore years but same story different year.The bigger more established brewers have bought their hops already for the next 3 to 4 years.Its only the little guys who buy as they need that will have trouble getting certain hops.It wont affect Doombar you will be glad to know.
Mobyduck
27-11-2015, 21:12
It wont affect Doombar you will be glad to know.
Thank the lord.
"Brewery will mark the return of the "
http://barmagazine.co.uk/hogs-back-beer-revives-classic-hop-after-over-100-years/
london calling
10-12-2015, 19:42
"Brewery will mark the return of the "
http://barmagazine.co.uk/hogs-back-beer-revives-classic-hop-after-over-100-years/
They say the beer has a fresh flavour.What does fresh taste of.
Wittenden
18-01-2016, 18:36
Good to see some neighbours' names in lights:http://www.charlesfaram.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Hop-WINNERS-2015-Letter-2.pdf Hop awards 2015
Good to see some neighbours' names in lights:http://www.charlesfaram.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Hop-WINNERS-2015-Letter-2.pdf Hop awards 2015
And interesting to see the award for new English hop varieties: Sussex, Jester and Olicana - wonder what they taste like when they reach the pint glass?
Mobyduck
13-08-2016, 08:22
The Hop Pickers (http://spitalfieldslife.com/2016/08/13/hop-pickers-photographs/)
The Hop Pickers (http://spitalfieldslife.com/2016/08/13/hop-pickers-photographs/)
There is another set of photographs from the same source which isn't linked from that page for some reason.
http://spitalfieldslife.com/2013/09/14/more-hop-picking-pictures/
Wittenden
31-08-2016, 07:35
Bit of excitement coming up in Kent:
https://kentgreenhopbeer.com/2016/08/30/more-hops-for-kent-green-hop-beer-fortnight/
Wittenden
11-09-2016, 07:38
Unusually brief and concise post from the prolix Zythophile:http://zythophile.co.uk/
Probably a bit old school for some.
Wittenden
22-10-2016, 09:33
Neew developments with Messrs Marston;http://www.nfuonline.com/about-us/our-offices/south-east/south-east-news/marstons-hop-garden-boost-for-kent-farm/
I knew Clive Edmed years ago.
Wittenden
26-02-2018, 17:49
English developments:https://www.charlesfaram.co.uk/british-hop-association-wye-hops-limited-charles-faram-co-ltd-hop-development-collaboration/
Hop garden in late spring, Salehurst.
http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=1628&d=1527950867
http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=1629&d=1527950922
Wittenden
02-06-2018, 22:23
Hop garden in late spring, Salehurst.
http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=1628&d=1527950867
http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=1629&d=1527950922
Mr Hoad's? Near the Salehurst Halt? Looking good- in 3 weeks' time they should be to the top of the strings.
Mr Hoad's? Near the Salehurst Halt? Looking good- in 3 weeks' time they should be to the top of the strings.Guess so, on the back road east of Robertsbridge and south of the planned Rother Valley Railway restoration
Wittenden
25-08-2018, 15:08
http://appellationbeer.com/blog/you-know-youre-a-hop-geek/ Guilty as charged. What's more, I've seen some growing, not 3 miles from here.
Mobyduck
25-08-2018, 18:47
1663
I think that maybe a good thing.
Aqualung
25-08-2018, 20:25
1663
Oh dear! Maybe I should reconsider my BOTW.
Wittenden
23-09-2018, 13:25
Interesting piece about Cellar Head Brewery in the Torygraph:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/food-and-drink/beer/british-hops-better-american-meet-beer-producers-say-yes/
Quite like their beer-I see a fair bit of it round here.Their Session bitter (unfined) was particularily enjoyed this year, and remains in the running for BOTY.
Mobyduck
23-09-2018, 20:04
Interesting piece about Cellar Head Brewery in the Torygraph:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/food-and-drink/beer/british-hops-better-american-meet-beer-producers-say-yes/
Quite like their beer-I see a fair bit of it round here.Their Session bitter (unfined) was particularily enjoyed this year, and remains in the running for BOTY.
Thank god for American hops, IMO :D
Wittenden
28-05-2019, 13:46
Perhaps this should be 'In the Barley Field':http://zythophile.co.uk/2019/05/28/malt-geezers-in-which-we-look-at-everything-from-an-anglo-saxon-maltings-to-the-most-modern-bit-of-malting-kit-in-the-country/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=malt-geezers-in-which-we-look-at-everything-from-an-anglo-saxon-maltings-to-the-most-modern-bit-of-malting-kit-in-the-country
Good read, anyway.
sheffield hatter
30-05-2019, 13:59
Perhaps this should be 'In the Barley Field':http://zythophile.co.uk/2019/05/28/malt-geezers-in-which-we-look-at-everything-from-an-anglo-saxon-maltings-to-the-most-modern-bit-of-malting-kit-in-the-country/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=malt-geezers-in-which-we-look-at-everything-from-an-anglo-saxon-maltings-to-the-most-modern-bit-of-malting-kit-in-the-country
Good read, anyway.
Yes, very good article.
Wittenden
23-03-2020, 18:09
Lovely! Some round here have been strung for a while now-I don't know whether they survived the winter storms.
oldboots
23-03-2020, 18:12
1932 1933 1934
I hope we're going to need them.
Not a hop garden today (or not nowadays, at least), but quite a famous oast in the background.
1937
This is where the first modern-day UK organic hops were dried (and still in use until relatively recently).
Most hop gardens round here are now arable fields, pasture or modern-style orchards like these...
1942
… and the oasthouses are generally now just houses like this attractive conversion...
1943
Oasts come in all shapes and sizes, but mostly as single or multiple square or roundel kilns (but sometimes a mixed layout around a central stowage floor that has been added to over time). These two conversions are of the late-Victorian / early 20th-century type, both in brick with large single square kilns, clay tiles on the roofs and the ubiquitous white cowls.
1955 1956
Here are a couple of larger oasts - one with an evolutionary arrangement of three square kilns but the second nearby has a pleasingly symmetrical layout with one on each corner.
1960 1961
Here are a couple of larger oasts - one with an evolutionary arrangement of three square kilns but the second nearby has a pleasingly symmetrical layout with one on each corner.
1960 1961
I remember as a kid we'd always holiday in Herefordshire and all the oasts were square. Many years later, I had a girlfriend from Kent and we'd go and stay with her mother and she pointed out all the oasts which down there all seem to be round - largely converted to residential use, she told me that occupants had problems fitting them out as furniture isn't curved.
oldboots
28-03-2020, 18:34
I remember as a kid we'd always holiday in Herefordshire and all the oasts were square. Many years later, I had a girlfriend from Kent and we'd go and stay with her mother and she pointed out all the oasts which down there all seem to be round - largely converted to residential use, she told me that occupants had problems fitting them out as furniture isn't curved.
I'm guessing that round areas make it easier to get loose materials out of the space, while square areas are easier to construct. No slur intended on the Hop Yard people as opposed to the Hop Gardeners.
I'm guessing that round areas make it easier to get loose materials out of the space, while square areas are easier to construct. No slur intended on the Hop Yard people as opposed to the Hop Gardeners.
In the mid-19th century, when many Kent oasts were built, there was a theory (largely later debunked) that round kilns were better because you got even drying all around rather than having cooler spots in the corners, so the trend reverted back to square... and these were indeed cheaper to construct too.
Wittenden
28-03-2020, 22:35
In the mid-19th century, when many Kent oasts were built, there was a theory (largely later debunked) that round kilns were better because you got even drying all around rather than having cooler spots in the corners, so the trend reverted back to square... and these were indeed cheaper to construct too.
Most of the old oasts by us are round,the newer ones square, and the working ones not really recognisable.On our Boris walk today , we passed a ruinous 3 roundel oast, the kilns of brick, while the barn/cooling floor section was, (or the walls upto first floor level), built of beautifully worked sandstone. Such a shame.
sheffield hatter
28-03-2020, 22:45
... problems fitting them out as furniture isn't curved.
This is off-topic I know, but I came across a curved bench in this pub (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/70182/) the other week (sorry, no photos).
Most of the old oasts by us are round,the newer ones square, and the working ones not really recognisable.On our Boris walk today , we passed a ruinous 3 roundel oast, the kilns of brick, while the barn/cooling floor section was, (or the walls upto first floor level), built of beautifully worked sandstone. Such a shame.
Talking of which, here are two examples of slightly older oasts with a pair or round (roundel) kilns, the first one a fine symmetrical example but the second having windows inserted into the conical pitched roofs (which really should be classed as a heritage misdemeanour...).
1971 1972
Here are two unusual buildings, or the remains of one in the first instance, which was once a tin shed with a stove that was used for heating pitch, tar or whatever black borderline carcinogen they could get hold of to dip the end of hop poles, etc. into to act as a preservative treatment. The second is much more recent, and appears to be used by seasonal fruit pickers for rest, recreation and no doubt various forms of inebriation / intoxication after the end of each week's hard work.
1973 1974
Once a familiar sight in these parts, a row of hoppers' huts where families of hop pickers (traditionally from East London) came to stay for a few weeks each autumn to earn some much-needed extra cash.
1985
Many such huts were flimsy tin structures (as above) whereas others were built wholly or partly in brick (similar to the buildings below, although I'm not 100% certain that these were used for that purpose).
1993
Many oasts are naturally found in amongst other farm buildings, meaning that they can be difficult to photograph even if quite close to a road or a footpath, with sometimes just the cowl and part of the conical or pyramidal roof visible.
1990
The first example above is almost in a village setting whereas the second two below are from a more typical farmstead out in the countryside.
1991 1992
Bucking Fastard
02-04-2020, 13:39
As a matter of interest how many oasts still exist ? Is there a register,perhaps by county ?
Wittenden
02-04-2020, 17:58
As a matter of interest how many oasts still exist ? Is there a register,perhaps by county ?
There's about 50 hop growers left: I don't think any still use the traditional round or square brick kilns, but I might well be wrong. Some use 'American Oasts'-big barnlike buildings with louvres in the roof,but the same principle, but most have gone over to in bin drying.
Unconverted/converted oasts: some are Listed, but not all. There is a person (or group) that photographs oasts and other buildings.https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/368027
Bucking Fastard
02-04-2020, 18:40
There's about 50 hop growers left: I don't think any still use the traditional round or square brick kilns, but I might well be wrong. Some use 'American Oasts'-big barnlike buildings with louvres in the roof,but the same principle, but most have gone over to in bin drying.
Unconverted/converted oasts: some are Listed, but not all. There is a person (or group) that photographs oasts and other buildings.https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/368027
Thanks for the info. I have seen youtube videos of how hops are picked and dried these days which was interesting.
I suppose if most traditional old oasts are now listed,a trawl through listed building data would be a way of estimating the total number,but that's not my strong point :o
But a quick search of wiki came up with 3,500 in the UK,so maybe that's just going to have to be the answer :confused:
Some use 'American Oasts'-big barnlike buildings with louvres in the roof
I was going to put up some pictures from another working hop garden, but the sunset over the orchards on the way back was so splendid I changed my plan... and then Wittenden goes and mentions 'American oasts'. So if that's the order of the day, here's a fine (converted) example that we've passed a couple of times on our recent Boris walks.
1994 1995
I was going to put up some pictures from another working hop garden, but the sunset over the orchards on the way back was so splendid I changed my plan... and then Wittenden goes and mentions 'American oasts'.
Actually, as a bonus, I'll put the sunset pictures up as well!
1997 1998 1999
Yesterday, I promised some pictures of another working hop garden, so here they are (and the growth starting to show can be compared with the pictures in post #117 (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?7362-In-the-Hop-Garden&p=106417&viewfull=1#post106417)).
2002 2003 2004 2005 2006
BF got me thinking about how many oasthouses there are within a (vaguely plausible) walking distance of home, and on an initial count I found that I had photographed over 30 on my 'Boris walks' over the last fortnight. I then spent the rest of the day, all evening and half the night studying maps ancient and modern and now have over 60 on my list!
Anyway, that meant that my planned post about changing perspectives as you see an oast - first in the distance and then closer up - never happened yesterday, so here it is.
2012
This doesn't look too promising initially, although you can see two round kilns and just about make out a square one at the far end, but as you round the corner you then find this view.
2013
Unsurprisingly, a large building like this got converted into two separate units (and with the barn alongside as a third), but it still looks impressive in the landscape.
london calling
05-04-2020, 20:41
BF got me thinking about how many oasthouses there are within a (vaguely plausible) walking distance of home, and on an initial count I found that I had photographed over 30 on my 'Boris walks' over the last fortnight. I then spent the rest of the day, all evening and half the night studying maps ancient and modern and now have over 60 on my list!
Anyway, that meant that my planned post about changing perspectives as you see an oast - first in the distance and then closer up - never happened yesterday, so here it is.
2012
This doesn't look too promising initially, although you can see two round kilns and just about make out a square one at the far end, but as you round the corner you then find this view.
2013
Unsurprisingly, a large building like this got converted into two separate units (and with the barn alongside as a third), but it still looks impressive in the landscape.
I have drank in the Oast House Manchester was it ever one or just a fancily built pub. cheers
I have drank in the Oast House Manchester was it ever one or just a fancily built pub. cheers
Never been there, and it's widely held to be a complete fake... and looking at the old maps it appears to have been an area or terraced buildings backing onto Howarth's Court in the mid-19th century and then cleared to create the Wood Street garage about a hundred year later before that was demolished as part of the work to form Crown Square in front of the new court buildings.
Of course, hops are no use until they are plucked from the harvested bines - initially done by hand out in the hop garden but later by machine inside anonymous sheds such this.
2015 2016
The cut bines would arrive by trailer to be hooked onto a conveyor loop inside the shed before being picked mechanically (an efficient system that is still used today, although - unlike this one - they are usually located adjacent to the oast).
NB - The chute on the side of the building in the second picture is the give away here, with the waste bines and twine from the hop-picking machine expelled outside to form temporary stockpiles in the yard.
You don't throw away an old farm building these days; this oast remained unconverted until work started last year - possibly now occupied.
2018 2019 2020
Wittenden
07-04-2020, 17:36
This is a modern picking, drying and storage facility near Tenterden in Kent.I've driven past-I think it is complete now, and should be operational this harvest.It is enormous!
https://www.instagram.com/p/BxdBjAZlj58/
Here are two really small oasts: the first a single round kiln hidden away behind a low (converted) barn; and the second with no separate kiln at all, instead built inside a compact (converted) barn and particularly difficult to photograph due to high hedges on all sides.
2025 2026
Wittenden
08-04-2020, 08:05
Here are two really small oasts: the first a single round kiln hidden away behind a low (converted) barn; and the second with no separate kiln at all, instead built inside a compact (converted) barn and particularly difficult to photograph due to high hedges on all sides.
2025 2026
There's a really small one-just a weather board shed with pitched roof and a cowl on top, by the cross roads where the Sissinghurst/Benenden road joins the Tenterden/Cranbrook lane.. I'll try to photo it when things get back to normal. Perhaps I'll also work out how to get an image off the phone onto PUG.
The public rights of way network is one of this country's real treasures, but the definitive maps are riddled with anomalies such as footpaths suddenly stopping at a parish boundary, etc. because of inconsistent recording dating back to the 1930s and 1950s. Many of these apparently dead-end paths are thus next to useless, but there is one example that I can think of that is worth exploring.
2037 2038 2039
Yes, it's annoying that it doesn't continue to form a link to the lane beyond, but the expansive hop garden vistas can certainly lift one's spirits.
Oasts are odd things, with an appearance that can change substantially as you view the geometrical elements from different perspectives. For example, this one initially appears to be a single-kiln example connected to the farmhouse on the right.
2045
Moving along the lane a bit, it then becomes apparent that the two buildings are separated by a small gap and the second cowl becomes more visible.
2046
From the other side, the farmhouse has disappeared and you get a more symmetrical façade (at least, until you notice that one kiln is round and the other square).
2047
And finally, when you later look on an old map, it is clear that there was originally a second round kiln at one stage (which would have been in the centre of the view, directly behind the tree).
This is one of my favourite oasts, not only pleasantly symmetrical, carefully converted and easy to photograph...
2051 2052
… but also situated on a rather idyllic little green just far enough away from traffic on the nearby main road.
Somewhat buried away within a large historic farmstead, and nowadays surrounded by orchards rather than hop gardens, but you can get several partial views of this picturesque oasthouse from the nearby footpath.
2064 2063 2062
Some oasthouses are frustrating; you know there is something interesting there to take a picture of, but there is often a hedge or fence in the way (understandably, perhaps, if you have paid a zillion pounds for a fancy oast conversion), so where's the angle that might still be there somewhere?
2072 2073
However, if you walk a few steps up an otherwise annoying dead-end footpath, you get this view of the south end (one of two residences now sharing this fine old building)…
2074
The hop bines are continuing to grow, but the ground is so parched around here it looks slow going at the moment...
2076
although these are starting to climb the strings clockwise but have not been manually trained yet...
2077
but those further away from the footpath look much more vigorous at this stage, so must be a different variety?
2078
Wittenden
14-04-2020, 09:41
An account of an interview with Peter Darby, the godfather of English hops, from Stan Hieronymous.
Hop Queries
February 2019
• The future of hops
• Crafty and classic breeding
• The state of the market
Welcome to Vol. 3, No. 9. Now I know. After last month’s Queries began with a copy of a what I called a radar chart of Hallertau Mittelfrüh I received an email from Jeff Daily at the BarthHaas Group explaining that such charts are more appropriately referred to as Rose or Nightingale charts. Florence Nightingale created the graphic displays following the Crimean War. Here’s a link to the whole story. Pretty cool, don’t you think?
The future of hops
Peter Darby, who has been breeding hops in England for almost 40 years, once said this: “English flavor is like a chamber orchestra, the hops giving simultaneously the high notes and the bass notes. In comparison, a Czech beer is more like a full orchestra with much more breadth to the sound, and an American hop gives more of a dance band with more emphasis on volume and brass. The recent New Zealand hops (e.g. Nelson Sauvin) are like adding a voice to the instrumental music.”
That should get your attention. Darby took over the breeding program at Wye College in 1981. Wye is where E.S. Salmon began cross breeding hop varieties more than 100 years ago, the result changing hops in ways he may never have imagined. There’s more of that history in For The Love of Hops, and a mini-version in a story posted last week at Good Beer Hunting.
In 2007 Britain’s government yanked funding for the program at Wye, which since 1948 had been an equal partnership between industry and the government. “We would have lost 100 years of experience,” said hop farmer Tony Redsell, who spearheaded the establishment of Wye Hops Limited, with Darby at the helm. Darby retires from what he calls “the day job” in March. He will still do some consulting.
He delivered the keynote address at the American Society of Brewing Chemists convention last summer, so it seemed appropriate to ask him via email what seems different about the way brewers, and brewing scientists, view hops now as opposed to 20 years ago. He wrote back:
“There has never been more interest in hops during my career than there is now. The obvious difference between the view of hops now and 20 years ago is that flavour is now all important and impact flavour is more important than traditional aromas. As this is a very subjective area, it means that everyone in the field can have an opinion and no-one is right or wrong.
“There is no unifying definable scientific goal at present and so breeding and use of hops is being undertaken by almost anyone; growers, merchants, hobbyists, scientists etc. Previously, it was left to those with appropriate scientific credentials or brewing experience. But now we do not have sufficient science to explain flavour and so hops have passed back into the art of brewing rather than the science.
“Clearly, increased alpha is no longer the main goal and, with dry hopping in quantity, some of the minor bittering compounds such as humulinones are now getting attention. It seems to me that there is a lot of brewing science and breeding science going on but it is in the background whilst the attention is taken by the taste panels and social media posts.
“Although pest and disease resistance and yield increase remain important goals, there are still sufficient pesticides that the existing threats are all under control. Perhaps climate change will provide the catalyst for the next change in direction for the hop industry.”
Darby has been generous about keeping me on the right track since I first began researching For The Love of Hops. We’ve exchanged emails about the heritage of multiple varieties, because sometimes there is conflicting information. I asked, he answered:
“I do not want to single out particular websites. I will just give a couple examples in general. Most of the inaccuracy that I come across is in pedigree information. The first example is the pedigree of Admiral. It is actually the result of a cross between two numbered selections. So, the BHA quote it correctly as being of Northdown and Challenger breeding lines. In fact, Challenger is its maternal grandmother and Northdown is its paternal great grand-aunt. Its pedigree is mentioned in at least three other websites other than the British Hops (BHA) website. These others incorrectly state that it is a cross between Northdown and Challenger, or that it is a seedling of Northdown. This type of simplification to give inaccurate information is typical.
“The second example involves the pedigree of the new dwarf varieties in the Czech Republic. These have arisen from pollen provided to the Hop Research Institute from the collection here at Wye Hops as part of a European project. I know the pedigree but (those at) the Czech Institute do not. So, the several websites which mention these varieties give various incorrect pointers mentioning other dwarf varieties including First Gold, Sovereign or Minstrel as the origin. One even says that they are the result of a cross between First Gold and Sovereign which, as two female varieties, is completely wrong. In fact, there is no First Gold in their pedigree at all and it is unlikely that any of the other named varieties are in their direct pedigree.”
There is never going to be a hop breeding question on Jeopardy. (The answer is Mistral. Your question would be, “What is the daughter of a cross between Cascade and a brother of Barbe Rouge.”) But getting these things right still matters. The Good Beer Hunting story mentioned earlier is about how sequencing the genome of hops, barley and yeast may change those ingredients. New technology is arming breeders with important knowledge, but it doesn’t make basic (and correct) information less valuable.
I hope your eyes did not glaze over during all of this. Just in case, I’ll repeat an important insight from Darby: “hops have passed back into the art of brewing rather than the science.” It happens I’ll be speaking about “The Science And Art Of Blending Hops” at Homebrew Con in June.
Drifting off-topic slightly, but our 'one-a-day walks' are taking us through or near various remnant woodlands between the fields, orchards, vineyards and (occasional) hop gardens, and the bluebells are now in full bloom. However, these are always difficult to photograph since there is something about the shade which seems to defeat an any digital camera when trying to capture the striking natural colour...
2079
The wild garlic is also starting to show itself, although it's still a little early to get a full display of the delicate white flowers.
2080
This sequence shows how the views of an oast in the landscape can change radically, (1) firstly viewed from over half-a-mile away across a valley, (2) then increasingly close, (3) passing the front (on the farm lane), (4) round the side (on the main road) and then (5) when starting to move away again.
(1)2081 (2)2082 (3)2083 (4)2084 (5)2085
Unlike the building in Post #142 (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?7362-In-the-Hop-Garden&p=107193&viewfull=1#post107193), this unprepossessing structure is still a fully operational hop picking machine shed (although you would never know, except for a hectic couple of weeks in early autumn).
2086
From this angle, you can see the covered conveyor that will take the freshly picked cones directly into the adjacent oast - low tech, but a very efficient arrangement.
2087
At the other end of the shed, you can see the stockpile of waste bines and twine from last year's harvest, waiting to be used as a mulch elsewhere on the farm.
2088
Would you give this place a second thought if you drove / cycled / walked past?
2089
Probably not, although you might stop to puzzle at the conveyor linking it with the next-door shed?
2090
However, if viewed from further away on the far side, other clues (or, failing that, yesterday's post) might lead you towards the answer...
2091
Yes, a real working oast, albeit as far away from the stereotype as one could think of, but a real survivor of a small but very important industry to us all...
2092
… with perhaps the most flattering view from across the neighbouring farm's pond!
Located at the other end of the farm from yesterday's modern working 'kiln shed', this grand structure is a now rare unconverted oast.
2096 2097
However, although you can see three cowls, the story here is a bit more complicated... because there are three square kilns at the back, but the one at the right-hand end has been truncated and is effectively invisible now. The round kiln with the conical black roof and slightly different stowage at the other end must have been a later extension. Doubtless it will be converted one day, but in the meantime it remains an authentic reminder of how things looked decades ago.
We had this oast before (see right-hand picture on post #129 (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?7362-In-the-Hop-Garden&p=106693&viewfull=1#post106693)), but the kilns pay closer inspection.
2107 2110
Oast cowls is another subject in its own right, and in Kent the tradition is to have a black horse (the inverse of the 'Invicta' white horse symbol) on the vane, although you can get dogs, horses, wicket gates and all sorts of other things. However, here you can see the dates of the two roundels quoted which adds some interest for the passing walker.
2109
And here it is again, late on a fine spring evening, with a curious shadow formed by two people standing close together (albeit in strict compliance with the social distancing rules as they come from the same household!).
Wittenden
19-04-2020, 22:07
Coloured cowls
Traditionally, Kentish Oast cowls were painted white, these https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1373861
at Liitle Chart, bear the racing colours of Sir Chester Beatty,the businessman and philanthropist, a former owner.
Most of the oasts featured so far have been two-storey structures, but this fine building has three storeys (probably with a separate stowage above a middle cooling floor).
2116 2117 2118
Of course, the roundels only have two storeys below their conical roofs; the kilns at ground level and the drying floors above.
This is another type of oast, of which there are several local examples, with a substantial stowage building that a modern-day developer might call a 2½-storey design (with an almost windowless upper level).
(1)2119 (2)2120 (3)2121
However, as you walk round the end, the whole appearance of the building changes dramatically, with the stowage obscured by a total of five round kilns (having particularly tall and sharply pointed roofs in this case, which somehow remind me of a fairy-tale French chateaux).
(4)2122 (5)2123
NB - Old Ordnance Survey maps only show three kilns, and you can just about make out that the two later additions furthest from the camera in picture (5) are built from a redder shade of brick. However, the building form suggests that the original building just had the pair of kilns shown in picture (4), an impression reinforced by the middle one in picture (5) seeming to have slightly darker roof tiles.
This pleasingly symmetrical mid-19th century oast with three roundels on each long side of a central three-storey stowage was obviously planned for a high throughput from the start, rather than having extra kilns added over time.
2125 2126 2127
The design must have worked well, because there are at least three other examples elsewhere in the same parish...
2128 far distance, centre
2129 an easier one to photograph;
2130 left-hand oast, partly hidden behind trees (with another, smaller oast to its right)
oldboots
23-04-2020, 09:02
This pleasingly symmetrical mid-19th century oast with three roundels on each long side of a central three-storey stowage was obviously planned for a high throughput from the start, rather than having extra kilns added over time.
2125 2126 2127
The design must have worked well, because there are at least three other examples elsewhere in the same parish...
2128 far distance, centre
2129 an easier one to photograph;
2130 left-hand oast, partly hidden behind trees (with another, smaller oast to its right)
Are you planning a book on the Kent Hop Trade or just enjoying the research?
Are you planning a book on the Kent Hop Trade or just enjoying the research?
Not sure - perhaps just finding a reason to go somewhere different each time for our daily 'Boris walk'?
When out and about looking for oasthouses and other remaining parts and relics of the hop industry, my eye is starting to get caught by 'solitary trees' such as these.
2131 2132
Sadly, these ancient landmarks will eventually expire, but even in death they can retain a spooky grandeur...
2133 2134 2135
Mobyduck
23-04-2020, 21:17
When out and about looking for oasthouses and other remaining parts and relics of the hop industry, my eye is starting to get caught by 'solitary trees' such as these.
2131 2132
Sadly, these ancient landmarks will eventually expire, but even in death they can retain a spooky grandeur...
2133 2134 2135
Yes they can be quite striking in an otherwise barren landscape.
Nearly all the oasts pictured so far have been converted to residential use (with a couple of honourable exceptions), but there are other options too...
2136 2137
The one above is now rather incongruously located within a small rural industrial estate (albeit based in a former farmyard), but it has been carefully converted for business use.
2138
This one was also converted for use as offices, although a financially-driven change of use to residential may now be approved through the planning system.
Here's another rarity, an unconverted oast, a reminder of days gone by when almost every farm around here would have had at least a single kiln in operation at harvest time.
2154 2155 2156 2157 2158
Mind you, this place operates as an agricultural museum these days (albeit now only open by appointment).
Wittenden
26-04-2020, 12:58
Feature on p 7 of today's Sunday Crimes on Ali Capper and her band of hop trainers on their Worcestershire farm.
Feature on p 7 of today's Sunday Crimes on Ali Capper and her band of hop trainers on their Worcestershire farm.
Many thanks for spotting this - I can't get beyond the photograph and the first three paragraphs because of the paywall, but it's good to see the bines (literally) in hand at Stocks Farm! Coronavirus: new pickers join the land army, but farmers’ ranks still have many gaps (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-new-pickers-join-the-land-army-but-farmers-ranks-still-have-many-gaps-s32gvblx6)
This one is difficult to photograph (being somewhat hidden away within an agglomeration of farm buildings and former tied cottages), but it is another - if short-lived 1960s - example of an industrial oast:
2160 2161 2162
However, once you've spotted the roof vent, and then look back from further up the road you start to get a better view, and then then taking a diversion up a footpath you get the clearest (if partial and distant) view.
Bucking Fastard
27-04-2020, 11:31
Nearly all the oasts pictured so far have been converted to residential use (with a couple of honourable exceptions), but there are other options too...
2136 2137
The one above is now rather incongruously located within a small rural industrial estate (albeit based in a former farmyard), but it has been carefully converted for business use.
2138
This one was also converted for use as offices, although a financially-driven change of use to residential may now be approved through the planning system.
Has anyone opened a micro pub or possibly a micro brewers tasting room in a former oast ?
What do you make of this building?
2171 2172 2173 2174
It certainly looks like an oast (minus its five cowls) from a distance, but as you get closer you realise that it is a new 'inspired by' architect-designed cruciform mansion.
Has anyone opened a micro pub or possibly a micro brewers tasting room in a former oast ?
Not that I can recall, but just thinking about the question has triggered my post-traumatic stress disorder caused by this little horror (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/24267/)...
Bucking Fastard
28-04-2020, 10:05
Not that I can recall, but just thinking about the question has triggered my post-traumatic stress disorder caused by this little horror (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/24267/)...
There must have been a subliminal recollection of this place as I have used London Bridge a lot over the years,as you say best forgotten.
What do you make of this place?
2180 2181
Perhaps a pair of very plain semi-detached farm cottages? But what about that odd extension at the front?
2178 2179
Yes it is a former oast, this time of the 1950s variety, with the first-floor stage for unloading green hops in pokes and loading dried hops in pockets, although its original purpose is far from obvious since it has lost what once have been a roof vent when it was converted.
Wittenden
29-04-2020, 10:28
What do you make of this place?
2180 2181
Perhaps a pair of very plain semi-detached farm cottages? But what about that odd extension at the front?
2178 2179
Yes it is a former oast, this time of the 1950s variety, with the first-floor stage for unloading green hops in pokes and loading dried hops in pockets, although its original purpose is far from obvious since it has lost what once have been a roof vent when it was converted.
Workshops? Anyway, if it is were I think it is, near the Onion pub.
Workshops? Anyway, if it is were I think it is, near the Onion pub.
Not exactly near the Onion pub, although it could be walked at a push (if keen and fit, with a good knowledge of the back roads and footpaths).
However, I have an inkling of the one you may be thinking of, with this now being so non-descript that we must have cycled past it a few weeks ago without thinking of stopping because there might be something to photograph!
Wittenden
29-04-2020, 21:55
Not exactly near the Onion pub, although it could be walked at a push (if keen and fit, with a good knowledge of the back roads and footpaths).
However, I have an inkling of the one you may be thinking of, with this now being so non-descript that we must have cycled past it a few weeks ago without thinking of stopping because there might be something to photograph!
No,it's not the one I was thinking about;that's even more workshop-like. same vintage, though.
This is the predecessor of yesterday's 1950s oast - something much more traditional, with a single round kiln, but no doubt much less efficient too.
2182
However, it continues to be cowl-less, which is something I would have thought you would want to fix if you had the sort of money to buy a place like this...
One of the great pleasures when out walking is to see a good rainbow (especially if a complete arc, and even more so if a double one).
2183
Of course, there is one vital ingredient for a rainbow, and another heavy squall caught us a bit later (although we managed to reach a barn for some temporary shelter).
2184
Now here's something a bit different, an 'industrial' oast dating from the late 1940s that was used until the late 1980s.
2185 2186 2187
However, and perhaps it's just me, isn't there something rather sinister about this place (especially with the chimney)?
Probably the closest oast to yesterday's 1940s example, this much earlier building looks particularly business-like in the landscape.
2194
That impression is maintained as you approach, with quite a plain front elevation, but unexpectedly having a three-storey stowage (albeit almost totally rebuilt when it was converted).
2195
However, things may not be quite as simple as that, because old maps and aerial photographs only ever show a single round kiln?
2196
Indeed, the second 'kiln' isn't even a replica, but instead a wholly new early 2010s extension in the local vernacular (but very well done, because I don't think you would ever guess).
As previously noted, unconverted oasts are increasing rare these days, with hop growing becoming a more specialist farming activity and these buildings giving rare opportunities for upmarket residential development in rural areas.
However, while taking our daily exercise when cycling along a 'quiet lane', we came across this fine example which I had almost forgotten about.
2201 2200
This alone is worthy of note (and it is rightly listed Garde II), especially when you look at the two early 19th-century roundels. You would normally expect the one on the far side to be a later addition, with the kiln at the end of the stowage being the original, but old maps show that this wasn't the case here.
2202 2203 2204
More remarkably, though, this farm not only has a second oast, but this one (also Grade II listed) had a large square kiln and stowage added to an older barn in the 1920s and this ensemble remains unconverted as well.
As another point of interest, both of these buildings have an adjacent pond too; not at all uncommon, and you may have spotted this feature earlier elsewhere, but when you have got open fires in structures with at least as much wood as brick then this is a sensible precaution...
This should be one of the most widely known oasts, since it's right by the entrance to one of Kent's biggest National Trust attractions and even nearer the gift shop (although both are closed at the moment of course), but I suspect that barely 5% of visitors give this interesting nearby building any thought.
2205 2206
The arrangement of six conjoined square kilns is certainly unusual, and I think you would need to walk across two drying floors to get to the end pair, which seems initially seems inefficient. However, with careful management, I suppose you could fire any number of kilns between one and six in the right sequence to match the size of each day's crop to give the same drying time? Or perhaps it didn't work that well, so they added the two much larger roundels instead, or maybe they just increased the acreage of hop gardens and needed all eight?
2207 2208
For the curious, here's a couple of clues (but not the landmark view that would give the game away too quickly).
oldboots
05-05-2020, 07:34
For the curious, here's a couple of clues (but not the landmark view that would give the game away too quickly).
I suspect this is a castle that sounds like it's in Yorkshire.
Wittenden
05-05-2020, 07:47
This should be one of the most widely known oasts, since it's right by the entrance to one of Kent's biggest National Trust attractions and even nearer the gift shop (although both are closed at the moment of course), but I suspect that barely 5% of visitors give this interesting nearby building any thought.
2205 2206
The arrangement of six conjoined square kilns is certainly unusual, and I think you would need to walk across two drying floors to get to the end pair, which seems initially seems inefficient. However, with careful management, I suppose you could fire any number of kilns between one and six in the right sequence to match the size of each day's crop to give the same drying time? Or perhaps it didn't work that well, so they added the two much larger roundels instead, or maybe they just increased the acreage of hop gardens and needed all eight?
2207 2208
For the curious, here's a couple of clues (but not the landmark view that would give the game away too quickly).
For those of an agrarian pursuasion, many of the leading Kent farmers of a now elderly generation were trained here, under the redoubtable Captain Beale. They lived in the upper storey of the gate house like building: it must have been perishing in the winter.
I suspect this is a castle that sounds like it's in Yorkshire.
No, not that one - try again!
The hop gardens were starting to look sorry until the end of last week because the ground was so dry, but thankfully a few heavy showers have got things going again.
2209 2210 2214
Looking closer, you can see that the bines have now been trained (or twiddled) to grow clockwise up the strings at a great rate.
2211 2212 2213
Of course, hops don't restrict themselves to hop gardens, and wild - or perhaps feral - hops abound in many hedgerows (and now growing vigorously).
2215 2216
Many hedgerow hops are male, unlike the ones with the cones in the hop gardens which are all female, and historically these self-sown plants would have been removed by local growers since unseeded hops could command a premium.
2217 2218
However, there can be serendipity here too, such as the new variety of wild hop discovered in Sussex and now used by Harvey's for one of its brews: Wild Hop (https://www.harveys.org.uk/beer/wild-hop).
Wittenden
07-05-2020, 08:14
However, there can be serendipity here too, such as the new variety of wild hop discovered in Sussex and now used by Harvey's for one of its brews: Wild Hop (https://www.harveys.org.uk/beer/wild-hop).
I think this was selected by Mr Cyster of Northiam, a well known hop grower,from material growing in a hedge that bordered a former garden. The same remarks apply to Epic hops, selected in Sandhurst by the Nicholas family.https://www.charlesfaram.co.uk/product/epic/
london calling
07-05-2020, 21:31
My local micro brewer has started doing a series of one hop beers as he has found it easier to get hops due to the lack of breweries brewing.Might this affect the prices of this years hops?
Wittenden
07-05-2020, 21:56
My local micro brewer has started doing a series of one hop beers as he has found it easier to get hops due to the lack of breweries brewing.Might this affect the prices of this years hops?
My neighbour is going around with a face full of chisels,so probably yes.
This unusual oast is currently under conversion (albeit paused by the current plague...), with a pair of former kilns featuring 'modern' (as in mid-20th century) longitudinal ridge vents. Old maps and 1949 aerial photographs also show a roundel at the back, but that seems to be long gone, and whatever the final result looks like, it certainly won't be of the picture postcard variety.
2232 2233
So, a bit unusual, but nothing like as odd as what can be found further back and off to one side of the same site…
2234 2235 2236
This very undistinguished 1950s(?) concrete portal frame building, stripped right back to the basic structural elements, is also under conversion to residential use, but what was it? The answer is the hop-picking machine shed, but one wonders what the future owner would make of its humble origins, having paid a £zillion for the privilege?
Wittenden
08-05-2020, 08:23
Thought at first the 2nd was a "Conder" grain store, especially with the cockloft,but on reflection they were usually of monocoque (?) construction rather than portal frame, and so virtually impossible to convert. We are seeing some weird and wonderful developments!
Thought at first the 2nd was a "Conder" grain store, especially with the cockloft,but on reflection they were usually of monocoque (?) construction rather than portal frame, and so virtually impossible to convert. We are seeing some weird and wonderful developments!
Here are the sale particulars: Mathurst Farm Oast and Hop Picking Machine Shed (http://media.rightmove.co.uk/30k/29126/63075544/29126_8401036_DOC_02_0000.pdf).
We have had hop pickers' huts before (see post 131 (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?7362-In-the-Hop-Garden&p=106873&viewfull=1#post106873)), but how have things changed over time?
(1) 2237 (2) 2238
The ones shown in (1) and (2) are of the most basic tin shed variety - it seems incredible now that a whole family would share each section of these for a few weeks every September, even until relatively recently in some places.
(3) 2239 (4) 2240 (5) 2243
Some farms had huts at least partly built of brick or block, such as the lighter ones shown in (3), and remarkably still used by families of former hop pickers as annual holiday accommodation until a couple of years ago (long after the associated hop gardens had disappeared). However, despite appearances, those shown in (4) are actually tin sheds, albeit with brick frontages added in the 1970s to smarten them up a bit. On the other hand, the brick building shown behind the trees in (5) is much older, being a Grade II hop-pickers' kitchen dating back to Victorian times. So what about today?
(5) 2242
These contemporary 'mobile' homes shown in (5) are still used by hop pickers at harvest time... so progress?
Ponds like these abound in the higher ground along the Kent / East Sussex border, wherever you walk through the orchards (and mostly former) hop gardens.
2248 2249 2250
They are typically found on sandstone outcrops, mined for ironstone, and together with the (then) ample supply of timber for making charcoal and wooden carriages, plus plenty of streams for the hammer mills, this area was renown for making cannons for the Royal Navy from Tudor times.
So the High Weald was the first beating heart of industrial Britain - sorry Coalbrookdale!
You do see some odd things when out and about on one's once-a-day exercise, including these two exceptional items of vital 'street furniture' on two country footpaths...
(1) 2252 (2) 2253
So, (1) a 'kissing gate' for those really wanting a kiss, and (2) a stile for those really needing a step up?
(3) 2254 (4) 2255
And, on the edges of playing fields, perhaps (3) should be sub-titled "Dun Rollin'" and what on earth is the kit shown in (4)?
Pubsignman
11-05-2020, 09:18
what on earth is the kit shown in (4)?
It's a machine used by rugby teams to practise scrums.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrum_machine
It's a machine used by rugby teams to practise scrums.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrum_machine
Thanks!
This is an odd one - the remains of an oast with two roundels, unusually set in a remote location surrounded by orchards on the slopes above the former hop gardens on the lower-lying ground, rather than in the farmstead or beside a main road for ease of access.
2256 2257 2258
However, the really strange thing is not its location but the attached single-storey building. A stowage normally has at least two storeys, with the cooling floor and hop press beside the drying floor at first-floor level above the kilns, so what happened here (and why)?
Wittenden
12-05-2020, 12:39
This is an odd one - the remains of an oast with two roundels, unusually set in a remote location surrounded by orchards on the slopes above the former hop gardens on the lower-lying ground, rather than in the farmstead or beside a main road for ease of access.
2256 2257 2258
However, the really strange thing is not its location but the attached single-storey building. A stowage normally has at least two storeys, with the cooling floor and hop press beside the drying floor at first-floor level above the kilns, so what happened here (and why)?
Do you think there might have been fire damage in the past? My grandfather, who wasn't a hop grower allowed a third party to store some apples in the Oast.Surprisingly enough they caught fire. To salvage the situation the cooling floor and kilns were roofed,resulting in a sort of barn/oast hybrid. A subsequent owner converted it to a dwelling, reinstating the roundels to their former glory.
Here are the sale particulars: Mathurst Farm Oast and Hop Picking Machine Shed (http://media.rightmove.co.uk/30k/29126/63075544/29126_8401036_DOC_02_0000.pdf).
Wow! The potential to be the oastest with the mostest!
Do you think there might have been fire damage in the past? My grandfather, who wasn't a hop grower allowed a third party to store some apples in the Oast.Surprisingly enough they caught fire. To salvage the situation the cooling floor and kilns were roofed,resulting in a sort of barn/oast hybrid. A subsequent owner converted it to a dwelling, reinstating the roundels to their former glory.
That sounds more plausible than anything I could think of, and I suspect that this pair of roundels with have their day again when the farmer needs to boost his pension pot!
This one is an unusual oast, with a slightly offset arrangement of two square kilns at each end of a surprisingly large stowage building, perhaps allowing for further expansion?
2261 2262 2265
Indeed, this seems to have happened with the addition of the (presumably later) roundel on one side, but it all looks a bit odd (especially because you would expect the original kilns to be round and the later square in an oast of this age)?
2263 2264
It also has a noticeably large (and partly covered) 'greenstage' at the back, used for unloading pokes (rough sacks) of green hops from carts bringing them in from the hop gardens and then loading sealed pockets (finer sealed sacks, stamped with the producer's name) of dried hops onto wagons taking them to markets such as the Hop Exchange in Southwark. But why at the back of the building rather than the front?
It's a bit difficult to make out, but there is a disused hop garden in the field beyond, with the wirework still supported on poles but the plants removed and replaced by grass.
2266
Although hop growing could theoretically be reinstated after a rest without major capital investment, this garden will almost certainly end up as pasture like the field in the foreground.
2267 2268 2269
In turn, that means that the hop poles will be taken down in due course, but as useful timber these tend to be kept in what might be called 'stooks' for cutting up and use as fenceposts, etc.
This oast is unusually located at the top of quite a steep hill, close by The Bull Inn (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/16294/) at Linton which has a spectacular view over an 'amphitheatre' of orchards from its rear beer garden.
2270 2271 2272
I assumed that the oast would also have a similar view, although it was almost hidden at first, but looking back from distance confirms it has (with the pub located just out of the frame to the left of the church).
Wittenden
14-05-2020, 21:50
It's a bit difficult to make out, but there is a disused hop garden in the field beyond, with the wirework still supported on poles but the plants removed and replaced by grass.
2266
Although hop growing could theoretically be reinstated after a rest without major capital investment, this garden will almost certainly end up as pasture like the field in the foreground.
2267 2268 2269
In turn, that means that the hop poles will be taken down in due course, but as useful timber these tend to be kept in what might be called 'stooks' for cutting up and use as fenceposts, etc.
Do you ever come across newly set up gardens in your travels? I found one yesterday when following a diversion in the back lanes between Biddenden and St Michaels. The young plants were climbing up substantial canes,while the poles and wirework were work-in-progress.
Do you ever come across newly set up gardens in your travels? I found one yesterday when following a diversion in the back lanes between Biddenden and St Michaels. The young plants were climbing up substantial canes,while the poles and wirework were work-in-progress.
That's a stage I've never seen in my 'x' decades, although I know that the only active hop growers near home have replanted their various gardens on a cyclic basis, usually with one lying fallow for a few years.
So what do we have here?
2273
One square oast with a cowl? Yes. Two cowl-less roundels with what looks like shingle-clad conical roofs? Sort of. And another cowl-less square kiln? Not quite...
2274 2275
So, getting closer, those are definitely a pair of roundels, but who would adopt timber roofs where there are kilns directly underneath? The answer is no-one, but the conical brick roofs were clad with shingles on conversion to residential use (for some reason that escapes me). But what's that down the far end?
2276
It turns out to be a little gazebo with a hexagonal floor plan and shingle roof (that, if you are generous, might hint at other nearby structural forms?).
2277 2278
But what about that other cowl-less square 'kiln'? This turns out to be a modern garage built with an oast-style roof as an architectural fancy!
We've had a picture of this 2½-storey oast before (see the first picture in post #122 (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?7362-In-the-Hop-Garden&p=106565&viewfull=1#post106565)), but that really doesn't do the place justice, so here are another couple of views (taken on another Boris walk taking the same route back home).
2283 2284
Do you ever come across newly set up gardens in your travels? I found one yesterday when following a diversion in the back lanes between Biddenden and St Michaels. The young plants were climbing up substantial canes,while the poles and wirework were work-in-progress.
That's a stage I've never seen in my 'x' decades, although I know that the only active hop growers near home have replanted their various gardens on a cyclic basis, usually with one lying fallow for a few years.
Spurred on by Wittenden's report, we cycled out in the appropriate direction to try to find the newly planted hop garden. Just when we thought we must have somehow missed it, here is what we found.
2287 2288
Some of the new hops are showing more vigorous growth up the temporary canes than others, presumably because they were planted earlier, and only a limited number of hop poles have been loosely installed so far. However, I don't imagine that it will be too long before the remaining poles go in, the wirework installed and everything tidied up in readiness for the following season.
2289 2290
Back down the road a bit, here are a couple more of the same grower's established hop gardens that will soon be supplemented by the new one.
This is a modern picking, drying and storage facility near Tenterden in Kent.I've driven past-I think it is complete now, and should be operational this harvest.It is enormous!
https://www.instagram.com/p/BxdBjAZlj58/
Built by the same outfit that has just planted yesterday's new hop garden, this huge "hop processing facility" (which I think is Euro-babble the funding bodies wanted instead of "oast" on the sign) is surprisingly difficult to photograph from any angle.
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Mind you, the previous oast is quite interesting in its own way (and a lot easier to see), and the hops probably don't care anyway!
2295 2296 2297
On our way to find the modern "hop processing facility" and newly planted hop garden on Sunday, we cycled round a loop to find another hop grower in another parish a few miles away.
2301 2303 2302
This one is a much more traditional affair, and I can't work out whether the old oast is still working (because the space now occupied by the first-floor window used to house an electric fan to aid drying, but there is also no obvious sign of a replacement).
Wittenden
19-05-2020, 21:59
On our way to find the modern "hop processing facility" and newly planted hop garden on Sunday, we cycled round a loop to find another hop grower in another parish a few miles away.
2301 2303 2302
This one is a much more traditional affair, and I can't work out whether the old oast is still working (because the space now occupied by the first-floor window used to house an electric fan to aid drying, but there is also no obvious sign of a replacement).
My neighbour! They haven't used the old oast for a few years now,the hops being dried in a bin system in the portal frame buiding in front of the picking machine.
My neighbour! They haven't used the old oast for a few years now,the hops being dried in a bin system in the portal frame buiding in front of the picking machine.
Thank you - another mystery solved!
Since it was such wonderful weather, we went for a trek after finishing work to find another operational hop farm, first seen from a distance and then getting increasingly close.
2304 2305 2306
Whether ti's due to the varieties grown, the soil or the micro-climate, it becomes very obvious that these hops have shown much more growth than in the other recent examples. Luckily, the footpath runs through several of the hop gardens, so one can see the various different means of support for the wirework around the edges.
2307 2308 2309 2310
Looking much closer, you can also now see how the trained hop bines climb clockwise up the twine strings.
2311
If you have bought a Westerham Brewery bottle in a National Trust gift shop (or the same beers from elsewhere), the hops were almost certainly dried in this imposing traditional oast that sits above the hop gardens featured yesterday.
2312 2313 2314
As well as the four round kilns set around the white weatherboarded stowage building, you can also see the greenstage (covered first-floor loading / unloading platform) and the slightly less appealing hop picking machine shed and a pair of silos (possibly for mulching the waste bines and twine?).
Another fine (if windy) evening, so after work we set off on a quest to find some more hops, and ending up seeing far more things to note than initially expected.
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Firstly, these hops are growing up permanent open wire mesh panels rather than strings - greater capital expenditure, lower operational expenditure, but a right nuisance to harvest? Also, the growth is so patchy, with some bines already reaching the top well before the end of May but others barely above knee height, and it all looks rather unkempt, so is this a failed experiment?
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However, right next door, there is a very tidy plot, with the footpath ideally placed for observers (if not the farmer) right through the middle - you couldn't be more "In the hop garden" if you tried! Getting this close, you also notice that each plant only has two strings rather than the usual four, which suggests that any loss of yield is more than offset by the lower manual labour input required?
More from around here tomorrow....
The hops shown in yesterday's post are taken to an oast on a nearby farm which also has its own hop gardens, with the ones visible from another footpath in the neighbouring parish also using the two-string system.
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However, as more of a puzzle, there is another, much newer but less manicured large hop garden on the other side of the path, so whether this belongs to a different farmer isn't clear.
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The "oast on a nearby farm" mentioned yesterday is here (if you look closely...):
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Most obviously, you can see the two traditional white cowls mounted - rather incongruously - atop an anonymous modern shed. However, the structure to the right also has a ridge vent, suggesting that there may also be another oast here? Of course, one of the other buildings must also be the hop picking machine shed, but plenty of top fruit is grown here too, so some of them are probably pack-houses and/or cold stores for apples and pears.
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On the way back, we also found the original oast on a third farm, now superseded by the above, with unusual louvred ventilators instead of cowls. All in all, an interesting and rewarding post-work walk.
Wittenden
24-05-2020, 22:31
Another fine (if windy) evening, so after work we set off on a quest to find some more hops, and ending up seeing far more things to note than initially expected.
2315 2316 2317
Firstly, these hops are growing up permanent open wire mesh panels rather than strings - greater capital expenditure, lower operational expenditure, but a right nuisance to harvest? Also, the growth is so patchy, with some bines already reaching the top well before the end of May but others barely above knee height, and it all looks rather unkempt, so is this a failed experiment?
2318 2319 2320
However, right next door, there is a very tidy plot, with the footpath ideally placed for observers (if not the farmer) right through the middle - you couldn't be more "In the hop garden" if you tried! Getting this close, you also notice that each plant only has two strings rather than the usual four, which suggests that any loss of yield is more than offset by the lower manual labour input required?
More from around here tomorrow....
Not really sure about hop stringing, but I think the number of strings,2 vs 4, could determine eventual yield,so the grower manipulates productivity to meet terms of contracts that have been negotiated.Also, younger plants are nurtured on one or two strings in the early years.The saddest sight is unpicked hops left to blow,or surplus plants sprayed off and not strung.
"Hedge hops" do tend to look scruffy this time of year,but they even up in time. I've not seen a mobile picking rig in action,despite some being grown fairly near by.
I got rather side-tracked over the weekend with the ArtUK site which aims to display all the artworks in public collections across our 'united' kingdom.
You can now 'curate' your own collection ranging from the obvious to the obscure, and bloggers Boak and Bailey starting things off with Pub Life (https://artuk.org/discover/curations/20th-century-pub) in the 20th century.
Inspired by this, I have had an initial go at Hops, hop-picking and oasthouses (https://artuk.org/discover/curations/hops-hop-picking-and-oasthouses) which includes a number of really interesting paintings (as well as a few duffers).
Another long walk, this time on the Kent - East Sussex border, looking for one hop farm and other (more famous) former hop gardens, produced plenty of interesting things to look at.
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Firstly, these three hops gardens are growing different varieties, including Epic and Key(worth's) Early, with each looking subtly different even at this early stage.
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Secondly, this hop garden is being renewed, with new poles and wirework, but the existing hop plants appear to be being retained as they haven't been ploughed up or replanted.
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Thirdly, as more distant views from the nearby slopes show, this area is becoming increasingly known for its vineyards as well as its orchards and hop gardens.
To be continued...
So with plenty of hops (as well as all the vines) on this farm, what about the oast?
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This can be found in a rather higgledy-piggledy complex of farm buildings of all types and sizes, with a tall brick stowage keeping (most of) a first-floor greenstage that also runs in front of a lower (and probably older) part of the building.
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The two original roundels were replaced by a small industrial oast with a ridge vent at the far end and this was then supplemented by a much larger building set parallel to the road to expand drying capacity (until this caught fire in 2015, before being replaced by the similar-sized green building).
To be continued...
(... later than planned due to a broadband outage last night...)
The next part of the walk took us to Bodiam, where the vast Guinness Hop Farms were once located on the slopes and plains of the Rother valley.
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We need no excuse to visit Bodiam Castle, which is a splendid place run by the National Trust, albeit very rarely looking as devoid of visitors as this (due to being closed for the lockdown, although the footpath through the grounds remains open). Anyway, back to the point, the slopes above and beside the castle that were once covered by hop gardens are now vineyards (some more established than others).
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One of the former Guinness oasts is visible in the distance directly across the river from the castle, but high above stands one of the original farm oasts in use before the hop gardens were sold to the brewery.
Having achieved our objective, we started back towards the starting point when we saw this vista as we walked through the rolling countryside north of Bodiam.
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With our attention initially caught by the pair of white oast cowls, the suggestion of a hop garden beyond was enough to prompt an unplanned diversion.
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Firstly, we found the rather parched hops we had seen from a distance, then (probably) the modern oast and older hop picking machine shed and beyond that several more hop gardens (including the one in the third picture, which is showing better growth). However, the surprises didn't stop there...
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Another series of hop gardens came into sight further up the valley, but these were much more typically located in the low-lying ground than those on the slopes we had seen further back. The footpath fortuitously runs along the periphery of one, giving a good reminder of how this wider area must once have looked in the Guinness days.
Two very impressive 3½-storey buildings here, set at a right angle, each with two very large square 'kilns' at the far end.
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They both look like ginormous oasts, but are actually the maltings for the former Close Brewery of Kenward & Court at Hadlow (now converted to flats).
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Although used for a different (if related) purpose, they must have been constructed by one of the many oasthouse-builders in the district.
london calling
30-05-2020, 21:50
Two very impressive 3½-storey buildings here, set at a right angle, each with two very large square 'kilns' at the far end.
2375 2376 2377 2378
They both look like ginormous oasts, but are actually the maltings for the former Close Brewery of Kenward & Court at Hadlow (now converted to flats).
2379 2381 2380
Although used for a different (if related) purpose, they must have been constructed by one of the many oasthouse-builders in the district.
Have you noticed that nobody cares about about oasts.?
Have you noticed that nobody cares about about oasts.?
Yes.
Some of you will be pleased to know that my keeping-busy-during-the-lockdown experiment to look at one beer-related story in more detail than previously done here (or almost anywhere else, so far as I know) was already coming to an end.
With two of the last six aspects planned (i.e. the former Guinness hop farms at Bodiam and the Hadlow maltings) already covered, I hope that forbearance will be shown by those who may wish to avert their eyes for the last four items in order that the 'narrative arc' may be completed.
However, I think the idea of looking at some facet of the history of beer or pubs in more detail is a good one, so why doesn't somebody else give it a go? Breweries and brewing? Malt and maltings? Pub architecture and architects? Listed pubs? Community pubs? Pub rock? Pub signs? Beer bottle labels? Beer mats? The possibilities are almost endless.
Wittenden
31-05-2020, 22:18
Two very impressive 3½-storey buildings here, set at a right angle, each with two very large square 'kilns' at the far end.
2375 2376 2377 2378
They both look like ginormous oasts, but are actually the maltings for the former Close Brewery of Kenward & Court at Hadlow (now converted to flats).
2379 2381 2380
Although used for a different (if related) purpose, they must have been constructed by one of the many oasthouse-builders in the district.
Serious buildings. I don't think that there are any working maltings in Kent now.
london calling
01-06-2020, 21:25
Yes.
I should have thought about the fact that it keeps you busy .Continue for posterity if nothing else. cheers
The best-known hop production facility in the country must be the former Whitbread Hop Farm at Beltring, with four iconic Victorian oasts (known as Bells 1 to 4) each with five kilns. These were actually built by a local farmer, Mr E.A. White, before they were sold to the brewery in 1920. Whitbread later added another five-kiln oast (Bell 5) of a more modern integral design and also purchased several nearby farms with their traditional buildings.
Now a tourist attraction of sorts, it is difficult to appreciate the scale of the site and take photographs unless you pay for entry, and it is currently closed for the pandemic anyway. However, there is plenty of material about it on the internet, including here: Oast House Archive (http://www.geograph.org.uk/article/The-Hop-Farm).
We did walk past the back of the farm last week to see what could be seen of the former hop gardens.
2382
Sadly just featureless plains like this, with no indication of their proud history...
Wittenden
02-06-2020, 08:24
The best-known hop production facility in the country must be the former Whitbread Hop Farm at Beltring, with four iconic Victorian oasts (known as Bells 1 to 4) each with five kilns. These were actually built by a local farmer, Mr E.A. White, before they were sold to the brewery in 1920. Whitbread later added another five-kiln oast (Bell 5) of a more modern integral design and also purchased several nearby farms with their traditional buildings.
Now a tourist attraction of sorts, it is difficult to appreciate the scale of the site and take photographs unless you pay for entry, and it is currently closed for the pandemic anyway. However, there is plenty of material about it on the internet, including here: Oast House Archive (http://www.geograph.org.uk/article/The-Hop-Farm).
We did walk past the back of the farm last week to see what could be seen of the former hop gardens.
2382
Sadly just featureless plains like this, with no indication of their proud history...
Yes, I met, several years ago a hop grower who had the contract to look after a relic/demonstration hop garden. The (then?) owners weren't really interested, so that project didn't last.
Having mentioned the largest and most impressive group of oasts in the country (and probably, with little or no exaggeration, the world), it must be worth a look at the oddest before I finish.
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I was reminded of that when we walked past this minor oddity a couple of weeks ago, featuring a strange-looking circular shallow-pitched roof with the cowl missing. As building styles can be very local, this could mean that what we were looking for might be somewhere nearby.
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With bit of assistance from the Oast House Archive (https://www.geograph.org.uk/profile/10354) site and Google Maps / Street View, we tracked down this 'bottle neck' kiln and cowl - one of the strangest buildings in Britain.
An important milestone in the hop-growing year is when the bines first reach the wirework trellis.
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This hop garden is showing even and vigorous growth at the end of May, way ahead of anything else we've seen in this very dry spring, so the micro-climate must be ideal here.
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Another view taken on the same same day at another farm a couple of miles away, with only the strongest bines in this parched hop garden just touching the wires (with most others well behind).
For my last post on this thread for the time being, this oast is of special interest to me since it's the only one I've worked in, albeit just for one September and many decades ago...
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Long since converted, of course, but a very valued experienced for a (then) young beer drinker.
I wasn't planning another post here for a while, but what turned out to be a fool's errand because we went a year too late to find some hop gardens hidden away in the High Weald.
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Yes, with the poles and wirework cleared and the ground ready for ploughing, it was all a bit sad.
However, having foolishly left the research until after the event, I found this video from a local vlogger with an interest in machinery of all sorts: Hop Harvest Kent 2019 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjhdO8i2j1E).
This illustrates three things for those with an interest in hops and hop picking:
1) It starts with the hop-growers second worst nightmare (after an outbreak of Verticillium Wilt) - an entire crop of hops being brought to the ground by severe weather (which in extremis can result in a full season's work being lost, with drastic financial consequences).
2) Probably the most authentic - if not professionally polished - footage of a hop-picking machine in action; in this case, one produced by Bruff Engineering from Suckley in the heart of the Worcestershire hop yards, reputedly so efficient and well made that the company went out of business because no grower ever needed to buy a second one (and certainly many are still working after 40+ years, holding their second-hand value for those looking to upgrade from something else). With their unmistakable noise and the smell of green hops, finding one of these working is an unforgettable experience.
3) A modern 'industrial oast' in operation, with hops dried in a train of heated bins rather than being moved into and out of kilns manually using 'scuppets'.
Wittenden
01-07-2020, 22:00
I wasn't planning another post here for a while, but what turned out to be a fool's errand because we went a year too late to find some hop gardens hidden away in the High Weald.
2413 2414 2415
Yes, with the poles and wirework cleared and the ground ready for ploughing, it was all a bit sad.
However, having foolishly left the research until after the event, I found this video from a local vlogger with an interest in machinery of all sorts: Hop Harvest Kent 2019 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjhdO8i2j1E).
This illustrates three things for those with an interest in hops and hop picking:
1) It starts with the hop-growers second worst nightmare (after an outbreak of Verticillium Wilt) - an entire crop of hops being brought to the ground by severe weather (which in extremis can result in a full season's work being lost, with drastic financial consequences).
2) Probably the most authentic - if not professionally polished - footage of a hop-picking machine in action; in this case, one produced by Bruff Engineering from Suckley in the heart of the Worcestershire hop yards, reputedly so efficient and well made that the company went out of business because no grower ever needed to buy a second one (and certainly many are still working after 40+ years, holding their second-hand value for those looking to upgrade from something else). With their unmistakable noise and the smell of green hops, finding one of these working is an unforgettable experience.
3) A modern 'industrial oast' in operation, with hops dried in a train of heated bins rather than being moved into and out of kilns manually using 'scuppets'.
Didn't realise that they'd gone-haven't been past much this spring for obvious reasons. As an aside, I think the modern oast was opened by Prince Charles after a fire several years back.
About time to see how the hops are getting on, and Wittenden should recognise where these healthy examples are growing:
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Wittenden
27-07-2020, 21:50
About time to see how the hops are getting on, and Wittenden should recognise where these healthy examples are growing:
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Should drive past them tomorrow.
Amid the heady aroma of lupulin from the freshly cut bines, here is the start of the East Kent hop harvest (in this case, most likely headed for Gadd's Ramsgate Brewery) in the curiously-named hamlet of Shatterling.
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On the other side of Canterbury, the same operation has started at the the much larger facility at China Farm, Upper Harbledown (although the process remains essentially the same, and unchanged for the last 60+ years).
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The dried hops in those bales beginning to accumulate in the shed will be coming to your pint soon!
Wittenden
08-11-2020, 14:37
https://www.beer52.com/ferment/article/771/a-hop-called-fuggle
Takes me back to my youth.
Keeping it traditional down in West Kent: Larkins Brewery Hop Picking 2020 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mRPQNhLA-M).
Keeping it semi-traditional down in Poperinge: Putting Hops on the Table in Belgium’s Westhoek (https://www.belgiansmaak.com/belgian-hops-poperings-hommelbier-westhoek/).
Komakino
13-11-2020, 14:10
https://www.beer52.com/ferment/article/771/a-hop-called-fuggle
Takes me back to my youth.
Keeping it traditional down in West Kent: Larkins Brewery Hop Picking 2020 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mRPQNhLA-M).
Keeping it semi-traditional down in Poperinge: Putting Hops on the Table in Belgium’s Westhoek (https://www.belgiansmaak.com/belgian-hops-poperings-hommelbier-westhoek/).
Really interesting stuff; thanks for sharing gents.
Keeping it traditional down in West Kent: Larkins Brewery Hop Picking 2020 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mRPQNhLA-M).
Very interesting - never knew how it was done, I hope they don't eat that wasp!
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