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View Full Version : Completed site release (The areas release)



Conrad
10-03-2011, 17:19
At some point in the next 24 hours we will do a new release of the Pubs Galore main site, it will probably require us to offline the site for about 30 mins as this is a significant release. I am expecting to do it late morning on Friday, but we will see how it all works out with the various preparatory steps,

Basically it will just include the new area code (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?3726-Town-name-redesign) and a look and feel redesign. It will probably take a little getting used to but please be patient and hopefully you will find it an improvement. Also with a release this long in coming and this big, there are bound to be bugs, just report them and we will look and see what we can do.

The current site is based around location, with a hierarchy as follows:
Country, County, Postal Town, Surrounding Area (Optional)

Where a pub is in a surrounding area it is sort of hidden away on the Postal Town (but still there).

With the new release we are removing the surrounding areas as a constraint on the pub (read on they are not lost).

So going down through the site it will have the following changes

Country pages are unchanged

County pages now show all the Postal Towns as before but also show all the new areas more prominently than before, we have also removed a tiny bit of the Google Maps functionality.

Town pages are now Postal District pages to make it clearer, these pages no longer have the map on them as it won't help and will slow down an already slow page. The top of the page will just be a list of all the areas in the Postal District as you will hopefully find the new area pages more useful. Below this is the latest activity as usual, which can now be minimised, and then a list of all the pubs in the postal district in alphabetic order, the pubs will be listed as you are used to, but will have a list of the new areas they serve as part of the list (multiple areas may be served, solving some of the issues like central London bunching).

Area pages are a new addition, they are basically the old town pages, latest activity shows at the top and can be minimised. Then there is a list of pubs alongside the map.

You will be able to set the areas, and ultimately we expect every pub to have at least one area, so where where a pub is in Bristol city centre then it should belong to the Bristol Central area.

To set up the areas go to a pubs page and click on the "Correct details" button, there will then be the new option "Setup pubs locations". Click on this and you will be provided with 4 types of option.

Areas currently listed will allow you to click on an area that the pub is listed in and ask for it to be removed.

Other areas nearby will allow you to click on an area that is near the pub but not in the pubs list of areas and ask for it to be added.

New area will allow you to add an area to the pub that is not already listed in the locality of the pub. Just type the name of the area (taking care of the spelling please) and click on Add area.

Main area allows you to add one of the areas to the address. This one is a little confusing, it should be used where the town is in a different town to the postal district and allows you to add the area to the pubs address. It is rather like the behaviour when we previously added pubs to a postal towns surrounding area. If the pub is in the central area of the town and should use the postal district as its town then set it to be the postal town and no area will be added to the address, it should never be set to the central area (eg. Bristol Central).

And just click on "Finish area corrections" to close this panel.

Any existing surrounding areas will be set on the pub and added as the main area for the pub.

We are expecting a bit of deluge when this goes live as people get the hang of it and sort out their favourite areas. Whilst this is happening we will not be approving pub links in order, we will prioritise licensees adding their own pubs, but leaving the chain links that regularly get added. This is because these take us a significant time to approve and we need to prioritise the work we complete, sorry about that.

Conrad
11-03-2011, 16:48
Ok, this is now out and able to be used.

Let me know what you think and if you have any questions.

ROBCamra
11-03-2011, 17:04
Conrad,

First buglet for you.

On the front page when you hover on picture or review or blog etc if you hover over the second or third one etc. It still shows the contents of the first one.

e.g. If you hover over review for The Queens Head it say closed and boarded, if you move down the page it flashes up the correct latest review of The Albion but then when you then hover over the underlined pub name for the Albion it still shows the Queens Head review.

Hope that makes sense.

Conrad
11-03-2011, 17:19
It does indeed, will try and look at that one later. I can live with that for a short while at least.

Thanks for letting me know.

Al 10000
11-03-2011, 17:20
Hi Conrad,

I found the same problem as Rob and i also found on the Nottingham home page a new listing for the Duck Inn in Chorley Bridgenorth this pub has a Wolverhampton post code.

I also thought the main listing with all the pubs in Nottingham looked a bit awkward it was like i had clicked on the show pubs for every area in Nottingham i used to use this facility on the old system but then hid the pubs which made the list look neater.

I do undestand this is a new system and i am one of those people who dont like change that much and i will hopefully get to like the new format and forget the old one which i thought was good enough.

:cheers: Alan

sheffield hatter
11-03-2011, 17:52
Conrad,

The new system of assigning pubs to areas seems to be working fine. I've had a little play around with it and it's easy to use and (so far) bug free. Congratulations!

I've found a glitch similar to Alan's (above): Cross Keys Inn, Kinnerley, Oswestry SY10 8DB appears at the foot of the Cumbria page (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/counties/cumbria/)(under the banner "Recently added pubs for Cumbria". Oswestry is, of course, in Shropshire. Sorry to be banging on about geography again.;)

Cheers

Conrad
11-03-2011, 17:56
We need postal districts to have central areas added to them, so a Nottingham Central. Once this has happened up and down the country I am hoping the 'Nottingham Postal District' page (and equivalent) will become largely redundant. But until then I think it is going to be a little messy being honest.

The Duck Inn will have always been under Chorley, postal town: Bridgnorth. I am just investigating it now, thanks for the pointer.

I will certainly be interested to see how this evolves, particularly in places like Central London where 1 pub can touch multiple districts.

Edit, just checked the Royal Mail, the Duck Inn (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/68045/) is correctly assigned to the Postal Town of Bridgnorth.

Edit, edit: And misunderstood what you were saying, looking at what sheffield hatter said it becomes clear, definitely a bug. Will check later and report fix on here.

Conrad
11-03-2011, 17:57
I've found a glitch similar to Alan's (above): Cross Keys Inn, Kinnerley, Oswestry SY10 8DB appears at the foot of the Cumbria page (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/counties/cumbria/)(under the banner "Recently added pubs for Cumbria". Oswestry is, of course, in Shropshire. Sorry to be banging on about geography again.;)
Similarly to Alan's this was always like this, there is a pattern between these 2 ;). We have mistakenly accepted pubs that had impossible combinations.

Edit: I take that back, this one is a bug. I will investigate later. Bl**dy knackered now and it is beer O'Clock

Al 10000
11-03-2011, 18:13
Sorry to bother you again Conrad,

I have just been on the Dronfield list as i was looking at pubs in Holmefield how do you get a seperate list for pubs in Dronfield without the Holmsfield and apperknole pubs.
I look at places like Dronfield to see if its worth going there to do a pub crawl but it is now hard work seeing which pubs are in which town or village.

Thanks Alan

sheffield hatter
11-03-2011, 18:27
Looks like Conrad's off to the pub!

I usually use the maps for designing a pub crawl. If you pick the centre of town (The Rock (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubmap/7297/) is nearest to the station) and then enlarge or reduce the map until you've got a reasonable number of pubs, you'll see a list of the pubs on the right hand side of the map pane. If you hover your mouse pointer over a map point, the pub's name becomes bold. If you hover over a name, the map pointer lights up.

Going by what you've said before, I wouldn't have thought there were enough pubs in Dronfield to make the trip worth your while, unless you include Dronfield Woodhouse and maybe Coal Aston too. Enjoy!

sheffield hatter
11-03-2011, 18:45
I take that back, this one is a bug. I will investigate later. Bl**dy knackered now and it is beer O'Clock

Hope you enjoyed your beer.

I've found another Shropshire pub at the bottom of the Lancashire page...and Cornwall...and Derbyshire...and an Essex pub in Rutland...and a Lincolnshire pub in Wiltshire. OK, I'll stop looking now.

Don't know if there is a pattern which might help you to identify the source of the glitch? It seems to be the "Recently added pubs for..." feature is just randomly plucking any old pub just to fill the space. Hope it's an easy fix.:)

Conrad
11-03-2011, 19:01
Sorry to bother you again Conrad,

I have just been on the Dronfield list as i was looking at pubs in Holmefield how do you get a seperate list for pubs in Dronfield without the Holmsfield and apperknole pubs.
I look at places like Dronfield to see if its worth going there to do a pub crawl but it is now hard work seeing which pubs are in which town or village.

Thanks Alan
If you look at the top of the Dronfield page (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/towns/dronfield/derbyshire/), the first section is 'Areas in the Postal Town of Dronfield':
Apperknowle (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/areas/apperknowle/derbyshire/), Barlow (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/areas/barlow/derbyshire/), Holmesfield (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/areas/holmesfield/derbyshire/)

Click on any of them to get to the areas. Not the greatest example in terms of quantity, but that is how it works. It is at the top to try and get you off the page to those areas really. You can also click on any name where they appear in the Coverage portion of the pub list.


Hope you enjoyed your beer.

I've found another Shropshire pub at the bottom of the Lancashire page...and Cornwall...and Derbyshire...and an Essex pub in Rutland...and a Lincolnshire pub in Wiltshire. OK, I'll stop looking now.

Don't know if there is a pattern which might help you to identify the source of the glitch? It seems to be the "Recently added pubs for..." feature is just randomly plucking any old pub just to fill the space. Hope it's an easy fix.:)
Beer in this instance is initially home for a cup of tea, but we will see how it evolves :)

You have identified it correctly, I should have said, it is the latest pubs wherever it appears on a county page, I am guessing it is actually getting its area and county id's mixed up, I would be surprised if it takes more than 10 minutes to find once I get in there. Excellent analysis!

Dave M
11-03-2011, 19:06
We need postal districts to have central areas added to them, so a Nottingham Central. Once this has happened up and down the country I am hoping the 'Nottingham Postal District' page (and equivalent) will become largely redundant. But until then I think it is going to be a little messy being honest.


I have taken a stab at creating Bristol Central (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/areas/bristol-central/bristol/), which hopefully gives an idea of what we are aiming for with the larger cities.

Conrad
11-03-2011, 19:50
Just uploaded a fix for the bug reported by Alan and sheffield hatter. Counties should show more sensible results for their newly added pubs.

Conrad
11-03-2011, 20:35
Just uploaded a fix for the bug reported by ROBCamra.

Thanks for those.

Bucking Fastard
11-03-2011, 20:41
Guys,
Just wanted to say well done,the new release is a very elegant solution and ,from my point of view,is a considerable enhancement to an already fantastic website.The logic shines through.The city centres roll out will also help itinerant boozers like myself.

sheffield hatter
11-03-2011, 21:08
I have taken a stab at creating Bristol Central (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/areas/bristol-central/bristol/), which hopefully gives an idea of what we are aiming for with the larger cities.

I've started on Sheffield Central. Can you please let me know if I am doing it right. I've started at the Bath Hotel (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/43051/) and worked towards the city centre as far as Jocosa (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/63383/). Presumably you will be creating the Sheffield Central area on the main Sheffield page?

Looking back at some pubs that I've marked as being in Attercliffe, I note that the Britannia (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/43078/) now has the address 26 Worksop Road, Sheffield S9 3TJ (which is as I would expect) but the Greyhound (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/43191/) has 822 Attercliffe Road, Attercliffe, Postal town: Sheffield S9 3RS. I thought I had done the same actions on all of these, but the results are inconsistent. Grateful if you could put me right.

Anyway, enough for now. I'm off to check if the Bath Hotel is still where I put it.:)

Cheers

Andy Ven
11-03-2011, 21:22
Hi Conrad and Dave,

Birmingham Central existed prior to the change, albeit without a title stating so. Is it possible to move everything under Birmingham, which has no assigned coverage, to Birmingham Central?

... and the same principle for Walsall please

Cheers

Andy

Conrad
11-03-2011, 22:17
I've started on Sheffield Central. Can you please let me know if I am doing it right. I've started at the Bath Hotel (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/43051/) and worked towards the city centre as far as Jocosa (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/63383/). Presumably you will be creating the Sheffield Central area on the main Sheffield page?

Looking back at some pubs that I've marked as being in Attercliffe, I note that the Britannia (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/43078/) now has the address 26 Worksop Road, Sheffield S9 3TJ (which is as I would expect) but the Greyhound (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/43191/) has 822 Attercliffe Road, Attercliffe, Postal town: Sheffield S9 3RS. I thought I had done the same actions on all of these, but the results are inconsistent. Grateful if you could put me right.

Anyway, enough for now. I'm off to check if the Bath Hotel is still where I put it.:)

Cheers
The Greyhound Inn wasn't added by you to Attercliffe (I am assuming we added it at your request prior to this release, I hope this is the case anyway as that is what the audits imply). To get the address to reflect Attercliffe that is the portion of the form that is under the heading 'Main area', select Attercliffe in the drop down and then click set.


Hi Conrad and Dave,

Birmingham Central existed prior to the change, albeit without a title stating so. Is it possible to move everything under Birmingham, which has no assigned coverage, to Birmingham Central?

... and the same principle for Walsall please

Cheers

Andy
I would prefer not to, I feel safer electively adding to locations rather than election by omission (if that makes any sense). Certainly in the past we were resistant to adding areas that were just outside the Central area (mainly as when we added them to an area it had to appear in the address as implied by sheffield hatter's answer) whereas with the new system we are happy for those to exist, so we may have created our own issues with our previous attitude. If you scroll down the Birmingham page any pub which doesn't have the 'Coverage' line under it is basically what you are suggesting.

Millay
12-03-2011, 09:14
I read through the first post last night and didn't really understand it, read it this morning and still wasn't sure. However I've had a go and added Portobello and Leith as areas of Edinburgh and shoved a few pubs in there, hope it works and I've done it right. It's a shame you couldn't retain the data from the old sub-districts set-up (I think they were called that) as everything now seems to be thrown into a larger postal town pot. I think the issue will be that until people go in and start setting up the surrounding area pages (and it does rely on a big amount of personal/local knowledge) there are going to be whole swathes of the country that look a bit confusing. Is it possible that they may also appear to be non existent as well, for instance if I searched for pubs in Portobello before I'd set up the area I'm guessing it wouldn't have returned anything. Just tried this with Newington, another sub-district of Edinburgh, and it doesn't recognise it as having any pubs.

Conrad
12-03-2011, 09:48
Just take advantage of this post to reply to some I missed yesterday.


I do undestand this is a new system and i am one of those people who dont like change that much and i will hopefully get to like the new format and forget the old one which i thought was good enough.I think there is going to be quite a bit of getting used to on this and I am sure you will not be the only one feeling this way. The old format needed to be changed as it took us too much time to maintain it, we decided to take advantage of that change to try and improve it, time will tell :)


Guys,
Just wanted to say well done,the new release is a very elegant solution and ,from my point of view,is a considerable enhancement to an already fantastic website.The logic shines through.The city centres roll out will also help itinerant boozers like myself.Thanks BF, it is appreciated. I am sure it will come as no surprise to hear that we love the new set up.


I've started on Sheffield Central. Can you please let me know if I am doing it right. I've started at the Bath Hotel (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/43051/) and worked towards the city centre as far as Jocosa (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/63383/). Presumably you will be creating the Sheffield Central area on the main Sheffield page?I think if you think it is central then it is fine (I haven't double checked you, Dave will reject it if he strongly disagrees). One of the nice things about this system is you can also remove areas though, so if anyone disagrees they can correct you back. I am hoping to be far less uptight about areas now we have this system in place as it has far less implication on our data if we get it wrong.


I read through the first post last night and didn't really understand it, read it this morning and still wasn't sure. However I've had a go and added Portobello and Leith as areas of Edinburgh and shoved a few pubs in there, hope it works and I've done it right. I should have said, just try it if you are in doubt, it is complicated and I think the only way it will come together is as people try it out and work out how they want to use it.


It's a shame you couldn't retain the data from the old sub-districts set-up (I think they were called that) as everything now seems to be thrown into a larger postal town pot.All data has been retained, in that respect the only change is the layout. In the old layout Postal Towns would have a list of the sub-districts (outlying areas, villages etc.) below the list of unallocated pubs and there was a button for showing the list of pubs in that sub-district. We have now just pulled them all back up into the Postal Town to display in the hope that the area (old sub-district's) pages will just make life easier. Anything that was previously in a sub-district will now be in an area of the same name.


I think the issue will be that until people go in and start setting up the surrounding area pages (and it does rely on a big amount of personal/local knowledge) there are going to be whole swathes of the country that look a bit confusing. Is it possible that they may also appear to be non existent as well, for instance if I searched for pubs in Portobello before I'd set up the area I'm guessing it wouldn't have returned anything. Just tried this with Newington, another sub-district of Edinburgh, and it doesn't recognise it as having any pubs.The only place that should have less data now is London, this is because where I previously gave the postal codes the designated arbitrary postal district name I have now stripped that back to just being the postcode. I am hoping the London members will enjoy cleaning that up though as it has frequently been a talking point that London was bad anyway.

From memory the sub-district's round Edinburgh had never been addressed (Dave or someone can correct me if this is wrong) so you are broaching new ground there.

I think the Postal District/Town pages are going to be more confusing now to our members that are familiar with the old layout, I think new visitors will find it just as confusing as the old site.

Definitely relies as you say on local knowledge, but previously we have rejected that as we felt it was breaking the system down into tiny chunks. Now we can take advantage of that and over time have a far more informative system....... I hope :pray:

Edit: Forgot to say, if it isn't in the search you are right it isn't there. The search is a nightly update though, so anything you add will not appear till the following day.

Old Blue
12-03-2011, 11:55
I really like the new release- the area pages are excellent and the way the recently added items appear is very helpful. So many thanks Conrad and Dave, you've done a fab job with this.

One small query about how to apply to rural areas. Typically the 'postal town' is a town whose pubs are not in any 'area', and the 'areas' under it are smaller towns and villages around it. For example, Bridport postal town shows 44 pubs, of which 20 are in Bridport town and thus not in any 'area', and the other 24 are each in one of 17 different 'areas' which are smaller towns and villages. Although this means most of the areas are therefore now villages with only one entry, I think this is useful as I can immediately see that if e.g. I went to Loders I'd only have one pub to go to before presumably trekking to another area, whereas if I went to Burton Bradstock I'd have three. It would be helpful to create an 'area' for the 20 pubs in Bridport itself, so I could see them in that area view without the other 24 getting in the way. I would prefer that area also to be called 'Bridport', as that is what it is, but wondered whether it would matter if an area was called the same thing as the postal town. Otherwise I guess 'Bridport Town' would be the best alternative, but I definitely wouldn't want to call it anything like 'Bridport Central', which would be misleading as the other areas aren't part of Bridport, they are just associated because of the way the postal system works.

Oggwyn Trench
12-03-2011, 12:13
I really like the new release- the area pages are excellent and the way the recently added items appear is very helpful. So many thanks Conrad and Dave, you've done a fab job with this.

One small query about how to apply to rural areas. Typically the 'postal town' is a town whose pubs are not in any 'area', and the 'areas' under it are smaller towns and villages around it. For example, Bridport postal town shows 44 pubs, of which 20 are in Bridport town and thus not in any 'area', and the other 24 are each in one of 17 different 'areas' which are smaller towns and villages. Although this means most of the areas are therefore now villages with only one entry, I think this is useful as I can immediately see that if e.g. I went to Loders I'd only have one pub to go to before presumably trekking to another area, whereas if I went to Burton Bradstock I'd have three. It would be helpful to create an 'area' for the 20 pubs in Bridport itself, so I could see them in that area view without the other 24 getting in the way. I would prefer that area also to be called 'Bridport', as that is what it is, but wondered whether it would matter if an area was called the same thing as the postal town. Otherwise I guess 'Bridport Town' would be the best alternative, but I definitely wouldn't want to call it anything like 'Bridport Central', which would be misleading as the other areas aren't part of Bridport, they are just associated because of the way the postal system works.

I was thinking along the same lines while looking at Shrewsbury , maybe something like Town Centre would be better than Central for smaller places

Conrad
12-03-2011, 12:17
...., but I definitely wouldn't want to call it anything like 'Bridport Central', which would be misleading as the other areas aren't part of Bridport, they are just associated because of the way the postal system works.
I am confused by what you mean by this. If I read it right then you are saying there are 20 pubs in Bridport town. If those 20 pubs were added to something called 'Bridport Central' you would find that misleading? Or are you suggesting a different range of pubs would be in the Bridport central.

We had a certain amount of discussion in the office about what the actual heart of a postal town should be called, technically it is valid to call it 'Bridport' but we felt it would be easily confused with the Bridport Postal District to all but the most familiar with the site (arguably I guess that will always be the case), 'Bridport City Centre' and permutations like that were mentioned, but we were straying dangerously close to the definitions of cities, towns, villages et al. Eventually central was decided on as something that could be generically applied to everything.

I am actually quite relaxed on the word used, it is just whatever it is I would like it to be applied to every postal district on the system without needing debate about whether there is a Cathedral/Abbey there :). We can retrospectively change Central if a new word is decided upon.

Not sure if I stumbled across an answer in there, let me know.

Conrad
12-03-2011, 12:44
Ah right having read Oggwyn's post I take it that basically somewhere like Bridport is small enough that it is a central area in it's own right. I take your point but I would like something that could be consistent across the whole site, so you could apply it to Bristol equally as well as Bridport.

My reasoning is to cut down on our overhead of checking it, but also just so that you know what to look for if you are used to the site.

How do others feel about the 'central' area in general? I am trying to decide how wedded I am to it now.

Old Blue
12-03-2011, 12:54
Thanks Conrad - I think it's only a point about the terminology used for the area of the postal town itself, not about which pubs to put into it. In large cities and towns we generally have a definable 'centre' which is somewhere near the centre and all the other areas are suburbs of that and are also themselves part of the city in the wider sense. But in rural areas the postal town may be a town that isn't actually very big, and isn't necessarily 'central' in any functional or geographic sense to the other areas. So whilst I think there should be an area in which the 20 Bridport pubs are found, calling it 'Bridport Central' feels slightly counter-intuitive as actually its the whole of Bridport itself, and the other 'areas' are not parts of Bridport but are other towns and villages in their own right. Deciding which pubs actually to put in which area is I think much easier in rural areas, as the towns and villages generally know what they are, rather than all being part of an urban sprawl which is difficult to divide up.

Are you dead set on always using 'central'? I can now see why you'd want to avoid calling the area the same thing as the postal town, but think some flexibility would help so we could call things "X Town", "Y Town Centre", or "Z Central" according to what ever feels most appropriate (and taking on board Oggwyn's point that Town Centre might feel right for Shrewsbury)? I don't think this would be confusing, though if you have a reason to need consistency of terminology please let us know

Conrad
12-03-2011, 13:06
Ah the joys of overlapping posts :)

How do others feel on this? I guess technically I have no problem with optional terminologies as suggested by Old Blue. But we would have to not have arguments about which to use, and avoid having an area for Bristol Town, Bristol Town Centre and Bristol Central (as an example, I realise it is a City really).

Farway
12-03-2011, 14:14
Like it so far, I have been having a tinker with adding Old Portsmouth [yep Conrad, at last] & Widley

But something seems to have gone wrong, me I think, so for the moment I have ceased adding and will revisit the method and try later

The two new Portsmouth areas I set up do not appear, do they need approval first?

Dave M
12-03-2011, 14:22
The two new Portsmouth areas I set up do not appear, do they need approval first?

Yes, they do need approval and as you can imagine it is being played with a fair bit. I'll get round to yours later this afternoon - it'll be good to see Old Portsmouth in the system in a sensible way finally!

Farway
12-03-2011, 14:28
Yes, they do need approval and as you can imagine it is being played with a fair bit. I'll get round to yours later this afternoon - it'll be good to see Old Portsmouth in the system in a sensible way finally!

Thanks Dave, I will not do anymore until approval is completed, Oh, I have just chucked in Cowplain under Waterlooville Postal

Old Blue
12-03-2011, 14:37
I was also wondering about greater london suburbs, and whilst there might be a straightforward "just do whatever feels like it's most useful and least confusing to site visitors" answer, thought this might be worth floating for views. Taking Surbiton as an example I think well known to several prolific posters, currently it has 27 open pubs, of which only one is in an area, Long Ditton (I suspect that may have happened because of unexciting reasons to do with the administrative and postal boundaries not marrying up) and that feels a bit silly. We could either (a) get rid of the Long Ditton area and just keep everything under Surbiton, on the basis that it's not a very big area and 27 isn't a great deal of pubs that actually needs dividing up further, or (b) divide the rest up into areas.

The most logical way to divide up, thinking about distances between pubs so it might be useful when planning a crawl, and also based on generally accepted area names might be to have the following areas:
Tolworth - 5 pubs
Berrylands - 5
Hook - 2 (this could also pick up a couple of Hook pubs that are in Chessington postal town, if you can do that)
Long Ditton - 1
Surbiton Town, or Surbiton Town Centre - 17 pubs
which adds up to 30 as there are 3 pubs I'd put in two areas because they're somewhere in between.

Lots of people on the river side of Surbiton have been calling their bit 'Surbiton Village' in recent years, and would doubtless prefer that, which would potentially take 7 pubs out of Surbiton Town and into a new area of Surbiton Village. Though I'd be inclined not to do that as (a) Surbiton Village isn't a generally recognised description, thus could be confusing (b) there's not really enough distance between them to make this a particularly useful distinction when e.g. planning crawls (c) you could get into an argument over whether 3 of the 7 pubs actually qualified for inclusion in the 'village', and (d) there is a school of thought that 'Surbiton Village' as a concept only reflects some of its residents being completely up themselves.

Finally, one could put one of the pubs in an area called 'Seething Wells', which they make much of on their website, but that would seem to be a ridiculous distinction to make on this site.

Whilst writing, I'm coming round to my original thought that doing whatever feels best might be the simple answer.

oldboots
12-03-2011, 14:47
It certainly looks good and apart from the point others have made - that it's not easy to sift out the pubs in the place the postal district is named after - it works fine for me. I have updated York with a York Central and three new areas but it's not so easy to decide where some areas begin and end as RR, I think, said on the London thread. Did I understand you correctly Conrad when you said you'd like us to put all the central pubs into an area called XYZ Central for each postal area?

Millay
12-03-2011, 14:57
Thanks for some of the explanations, it's becoming a bit clearer with use. I've had a look at my local area, Watford, and the outlying areas are already there.

Is it possible to have a pub in two postal areas? for instance this one (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/15080/) is in the postal town of Watford but geographically is closer to the postal town of Bushey, being just outside Bushey train station. Can I allocate it to the Bushey page without screwing anything up?

Old Blue
12-03-2011, 15:42
Millay
if the issue you have here is the same as one of the ones I've been struggling with, I think the answer is that each pub can only be in one postal town, but that we can now set up areas to show when pubs are near to each other even if they appear under different postal towns. So if you create an 'area' which describes the locality, and allocate that to the relevant pubs on both sides of the 'postal town' divide, they should then be visible together in the area view.

Though I'd appreciate Conrad or Dave's confirmation, as I've just tried to do this with Hook, and want to do it in some other places, like Weston Green where pubs on opposite sides of the road appear separately under Esher or Thames Ditton postal towns.

Conrad
12-03-2011, 15:42
(b) divide the rest up into areas.
Definitely this, a major point of this release is to allow more areas to come into existence. Do what you feel is right is my message, if someone disagrees they have they option to request it removed from the area.


Did I understand you correctly Conrad when you said you'd like us to put all the central pubs into an area called XYZ Central for each postal area?
Yep, your busy work is much appreciated and exactly what we were driving at, hopefully will also alleviate the issue of the town relating to the district.

There is a slight question mark over whether this makes sense for smaller postal districts, but that is only in the sense of naming convention. I am receptive to others thinking on that, my only concern is to keep it simple (for the sake of my poor brain).


Is it possible to have a pub in two postal areas? for instance this one (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/15080/) is in the postal town of Watford but geographically is closer to the postal town of Bushey, being just outside Bushey train station. Can I allocate it to the Bushey page without screwing anything up?
I'm afraid where postal towns are concerned we are staying resolute. We look them up on Royal Mail and stick them in there, it is the one solid point of reference we have. What is allowed under this new system is: if there is a 'Bushey Central' area in 'Bushey' Postal Town, The Victoria can be added to the 'Bushey Central' area even though it is in a different postal town (it would help if you added a pub in 'Bushey' to 'Bushey Central' first so that 'Bushey Central' knows it belongs in 'Bushey' though).

I hope that all makes sense, this new system is going to take some getting used to.

Edit: overlapping post with Old Blue, what you say is correct. Hopefully this outlines it in a little more detail, happy to clarify anything though.

Al 10000
12-03-2011, 16:08
Ah right having read Oggwyn's post I take it that basically somewhere like Bridport is small enough that it is a central area in it's own right. I take your point but I would like something that could be consistent across the whole site, so you could apply it to Bristol equally as well as Bridport.

My reasoning is to cut down on our overhead of checking it, but also just so that you know what to look for if you are used to the site.

How do others feel about the 'central' area in general? I am trying to decide how wedded I am to it now.

Hi Conrad,


Having read recent posts i think the problem is with smaller towns like Bridport, Beverley and Dronfield they used to have there own seperate list of pubs in that town but now the other villages close to the town are included in the towns list.
I have just had a look at Beverley and i car'nt seperate the smaller villages from the Beverley list.

At the top of the towns main page there is a list across the top with the villages in that towns area if i click on a village i will see the pubs in that village seperatly but there is no town name at the top to click onto,if you added for example Bridport or Beverley to the list at the top of the main page then when we clicked onto that towns name we would then get a list of the pubs that are in Bridport or Beverley and not a list with the villages mixed in with it.

Cheers Alan

Al 10000
12-03-2011, 16:17
Hi Conrad,

Sorry to bother you again but how do you make a new area eg Nottingham central.
I was going to sort out the Notttingham area but dont have any idea how to do this.

Thanks Alan

ROBCamra
12-03-2011, 16:29
Hi Conrad,

Sorry to bother you again but how do you make a new area eg Nottingham central.
I was going to sort out the Notttingham area but dont have any idea how to do this.

Thanks Alan

Alan, I've just added an area called Nottingham Central and put The Approach in it.

It should now appear as an option on the list for you. :cheers:

Al 10000
12-03-2011, 16:41
Alan, I've just added an area called Nottingham Central and put The Approach in it.

It should now appear as an option on the list for you. :cheers:

Hi Rob,

Ive just had a look and i car'nt see a Nottingham central option on the main page or on the Approach's page.

Alan

ROBCamra
12-03-2011, 17:19
Hi Rob,

Ive just had a look and i car'nt see a Nottingham central option on the main page or on the Approach's page.

Alan

Alan, It works for me as I've just added the Canalhouse to Central.

Try clicking on the Olde Trip, click on correct details and then select Setup pub locations. Nottingham Central is in the list of areas you can choose.

Cheers

Conrad
12-03-2011, 17:25
Hi Rob,

Ive just had a look and i car'nt see a Nottingham central option on the main page or on the Approach's page.

Alan
Hi Alan,

I think you haven't found the controls yet. Pubs need to be put into the areas from the pub, not the area pages. So for instance go to The Bank (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/58105/) apparently the nearest pub to The Approach (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/30846/), click 'Correct details' below the address.

You should then see the 'Setup pub locations' button. This will then show you all the options for controlling The Bank's areas. At time of writing it has no areas so you cannot request any are removed.

Then there is a list of areas nearby, including 'Nottingham Central' (thanks ROB), by clicking any of these you create a request to add the pub to that area.

If the area you want is not listed, so for instance you wanted to add it to an area called 'Beastmarket' you would type it in the area where 'new area' is written and then click add area.

Probably best not to worry about Main area too much yet, but that adds the area to the pubs address.

When you are done click on 'Finish area corrections'.

Hope that helps

Dave M
12-03-2011, 17:58
Like it so far, I have been having a tinker with adding Old Portsmouth [yep Conrad, at last] & Widley


Ok, you'll be pleased to know that Old Portsmouth (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/areas/old-portsmouth/hampshire/) and Widley (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/areas/widley/hampshire/) now exist. I see you went with adding the new area as the 'Main Area' for most of your suggestions too, just to let you know that you don't need to do that for all areas - I've quoted Conrads guidance on it below. On that basis I am going to reject the suggestions for Old Portsmouth, since it is basically within Portsmouth but will approve it for the ones in Widley since that is quite distinct.



Main area allows you to add one of the areas to the address. This one is a little confusing, it should be used where the town is in a different town to the postal district and allows you to add the area to the pubs address. It is rather like the behaviour when we previously added pubs to a postal towns surrounding area.

Al 10000
12-03-2011, 18:11
Alan, It works for me as I've just added the Canalhouse to Central.

Try clicking on the Olde Trip, click on correct details and then select Setup pub locations. Nottingham Central is in the list of areas you can choose.

Cheers

Hi Rob,

Thanks for that i have finally got the hang of it now so i will start sorting Nottingham out.

Thanks also Conrad this should keep me busy for a bit.

Andy Ven
12-03-2011, 18:19
I would prefer not to, I feel safer electively adding to locations rather than election by omission (if that makes any sense). Certainly in the past we were resistant to adding areas that were just outside the Central area (mainly as when we added them to an area it had to appear in the address as implied by sheffield hatter's answer) whereas with the new system we are happy for those to exist, so we may have created our own issues with our previous attitude. If you scroll down the Birmingham page any pub which doesn't have the 'Coverage' line under it is basically what you are suggesting.

If it doesn't have a coverage assigned to it then it is central. By electively adding, are you saying that if I send you a list of everything that is in Birmingham Central you would include it under that Coverage?

Conrad
12-03-2011, 19:17
If it doesn't have a coverage assigned to it then it is central. By electively adding, are you saying that if I send you a list of everything that is in Birmingham Central you would include it under that Coverage?
I was trying to con you into looking at each of those pubs and add them using the new interface :)

Just in case you missed any when you were originally doing it really. Also weren't there some areas we said no to when you originally did it (or am I getting mixed up with Leeds or one of the other breakdowns) as we felt they were too close to the centre? That being the case we are fine to have them on the new set up.

sheffield hatter
13-03-2011, 00:39
I would like something that could be consistent across the whole site, so you could apply it to Bristol equally as well as Bridport.

How do others feel about the 'central' area in general? I am trying to decide how wedded I am to it now.

It seems to me that "Central" tagged onto cities like Bristol or Sheffield makes sense, and maybe also for medium-sized towns too (though "town centre" might feel more comfortable), but for small towns like Bridport and Beverley it just seems silly.

Creating an area called Dronfield in the postal town of Dronfield might seem like duplication (because you'll get "Dronfield > Dronfield" appearing in county pages), but once it's been set up it will solve the problem Al 10000 had with identifying which pubs were in the centre and which were in the outlying villages. A fairly tedious chore, but worthwhile for the sake of making the site more user friendly, I think.

Oggwyn Trench
13-03-2011, 10:06
Just done Telford , Central fits perfectly as its not a real town , and added a new area Hollinswood . I will look at the rest of Shropshire later on .

Conrad
13-03-2011, 10:42
On a whim I just did a check. 876 requests to add areas to a pub since we released on Friday, and that is on top of the sites normal activity. Very impressive.

I have to admit I am coming round to the idea of different names on the central areas. I think having no clarification is a mistake (same name for postal district and area), overall I think it would be more confusing and only the most familiar with the site would understand, or even be able to tell which Dronfield page they were on (for the sake of an example). I think it should always be a suffix (so that the alphabetic listing makes sense) and I think it should be from an approved selection. Can anyone think of examples that would not be covered by 'town', 'town centre' or 'central'?

sheffield hatter
13-03-2011, 11:03
I think it should always be a suffix (so that the alphabetic listing makes sense) and I think it should be from an approved selection. Can anyone think of examples that would not be covered by 'town', 'town centre' or 'central'?

The village of Seascale (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/towns/seascale/cumbria/) in Cumbria is a postal district, containing pubs as far away as Wastwater. The two pubs in the village itself would probably be best placed in "Seascale village", I would suggest.

The nearby village of Holmrook is a similar case, and there will no doubt be other examples in country areas.

Conrad
13-03-2011, 11:51
....., but we were straying dangerously close to the definitions of cities, towns, villages et al. Eventually central was decided on as something that could be generically applied to everything.


The village of Seascale (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/towns/seascale/cumbria/) in Cumbria is a postal district, containing pubs as far away as Wastwater. The two pubs in the village itself would probably be best placed in "Seascale village", I would suggest.

I think I have changed my mind, lets just stick with Central, it is simple, and avoids my nightmares every time Coleshill is mentioned (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?597-Few-Corrections-%28Well-more-than-few%21%29).

Old Blue
13-03-2011, 12:01
I agree with SH on 'village' and I did this earlier with Thames Ditton.

As I'm doing this I'm finding maybe the other important thing is to think about what name would feel most inclusive of pubs that need to be covered by it. For example, I think I've made a mistake in creating a 'Leatherhead Town Centre', which seemed to make sense as Leatherhead does have an identifiable town centre, but that doesn't really allow it to cover pubs like http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/35977/ which is technically in Leatherhead but really in the middle of nowhere - I don't see what area it could possibly have unless we rename the main area to Leatherhead Town and put it there.

Conrad
13-03-2011, 12:25
I am actually going to diplomatically back out of this conversation and ask Dave to take over.

I think some valid points are being made, and I think I am too entrenched from many years of debate with site members about what is appropriate (and I think may no longer be true) and it isn't helping my perspective at all.

So over to you Dave.

PaulOfHorsham
13-03-2011, 12:37
I've just read 3 pages of comments in one go (!) so the following point may be covered already (in some form or other).

However, would it be possible to add a filter (or another dropdown) to list all the pubs in a particular sub-district (if that's what you're still calling them) or in none? At present, it seems difficult to pick out the 'town' ones from the 'surrounding area' ones. Unless, you'd like me to create a 'town' sub-district (which seems to be the way the thread is heading)?

I guess, as much as anything, I'm just trying to come to terms with the brave new world of Pubs Galore. :eek:

Conrad
13-03-2011, 13:00
..... Unless, you'd like me to create a 'town' sub-district (which seems to be the way the thread is heading)?
This is the intention. There is just some healthy debate about what you call that town area.

sheffield hatter
13-03-2011, 13:05
Having read the Coleshill thread, I can get an idea of what a minefield this must appear to be to Conrad. :eek: I can appreciate how only allowing the "central" suffix might appear to be the safe option, but we have already seen examples where the result would feel uncomfortable to users. I'll be interested to see others' thoughts on this, and particularly what Dave's take is now that Conrad has stepped out.

Farway
13-03-2011, 13:45
Ok, you'll be pleased to know that Old Portsmouth (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/areas/old-portsmouth/hampshire/) and Widley (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/areas/widley/hampshire/) now exist. I see you went with adding the new area as the 'Main Area' for most of your suggestions too, just to let you know that you don't need to do that for all areas - I've quoted Conrads guidance on it below. On that basis I am going to reject the suggestions for Old Portsmouth, since it is basically within Portsmouth but will approve it for the ones in Widley since that is quite distinct.


Thanks for explanation Dave, I think it has sunk in my addled brain now

NickDavies
13-03-2011, 15:24
I agree with SH on 'village' and I did this earlier with Thames Ditton.

As I'm doing this I'm finding maybe the other important thing is to think about what name would feel most inclusive of pubs that need to be covered by it. For example, I think I've made a mistake in creating a 'Leatherhead Town Centre', which seemed to make sense as Leatherhead does have an identifiable town centre, but that doesn't really allow it to cover pubs like http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/35977/ which is technically in Leatherhead but really in the middle of nowhere - I don't see what area it could possibly have unless we rename the main area to Leatherhead Town and put it there.

I'm wondering about that, having created a Croydon town centre, and am putting everything within the apology for a ring road in it. But some of those for a mile or so outside don't fall in any definable neighbourhood. "Croydon environs" springs to mind but sounds rather estate agentish.

Conrad
13-03-2011, 15:42
I'm wondering about that, having created a Croydon town centre, and am putting everything within the apology for a ring road in it. But some of those for a mile or so outside don't fall in any definable neighbourhood. "Croydon environs" springs to mind but sounds rather estate agentish.
I really don't know any of these areas sadly, but is there not another local name for it, where an estate agent would describe it as isn't necessarily the worst guide.

Oggwyn Trench
13-03-2011, 15:50
I have done Shropshire and have used Central for the main centres , things can allways be tweaked later on regarding Town Centres etc , though i was thinking of dividing Bridgnorth into High and Low towns .

Al 10000
13-03-2011, 17:23
Hi Conrad and Dave,

Have you found a way of looking at town pubs without having the village pubs mixed in with them yet,if you have let me know and i will sort out some towns that i have visited.

Thanks Alan

Old Blue
13-03-2011, 17:25
I'm wondering about that, having created a Croydon town centre, and am putting everything within the apology for a ring road in it. But some of those for a mile or so outside don't fall in any definable neighbourhood. "Croydon environs" springs to mind but sounds rather estate agentish.

I must confess I wasn't brave enough to tackle Croydon, and was wondering who might do. I suspect part of the problem is the way much of this heartless and soulless post-war mess defies description, and the way most of it is generally described as either West, East or South is not unconnected with that. I wonder if those descriptions might help us here. Is most of what you have in mind for Central Croydon on the Western side of the A212? If so (and subject to the ongoing debate) I think that gives you the option of calling that West Croydon, or Central and West, or West and Central, and creating a separate area of East Croydon for things east of the 212. I think that might make it a lot easier to allocate things to them according to what direction they're in rather than necessarily how close they are. Just a thought.

I do wonder if

Dave M
13-03-2011, 18:04
Otherwise I guess 'Bridport Town' would be the best alternative, but I definitely wouldn't want to call it anything like 'Bridport Central', which would be misleading as the other areas aren't part of Bridport, they are just associated because of the way the postal system works.

I think this was a key point. Me and Conrad had felt fairly confident about 'X Central' working as a nice catch-all situation. But I think it does make sense that there are two slightly different cases.

We all seem comfortable about 'Central' making sense in the likes of Birmingham, Bristol, Sheffield but it makes less sense when there aren't any other parts of the postal town. The best work for describing this does seem to be 'Town' but as Conrad has said once we start using words that have specific meanings rather than very generic it tends to cause us issues.

So I would prefer it if people stuck primarily to using Central or Town depending on which situation is relevant. Otherwise I can see future debates about whether the postal town of Llanbrynmair is a town/village or hamlet.

I'm a bit unsure of the usage of 'Town Centre' to be honest, I think it tends to imply that it will only cover main shopping areas.

Having said all that I had no real issues with yesterdays submissions, they were all being offered by people who understand their local geography better than I do and seemed to be using a lot of common sense. I'll get on with looking at todays 800+ suggestions and get back with any thoughts about stuff I strongly disagree with.

Conrad
13-03-2011, 19:20
Hi Conrad and Dave,

Have you found a way of looking at town pubs without having the village pubs mixed in with them yet,if you have let me know and i will sort out some towns that i have visited.

Thanks Alan
No plans for this at the moment I am afraid. The only way currently is to scroll down the page and find ones with no coverage marked against them.

Whilst this can be done it would need to be a new development, and I am not sure how it would slot into the site in general.

Give it a week or two to settle down and we will see where we are at, it may be that this becomes essential, if it does then we will start looking at how to do it.

Andy Ven
13-03-2011, 19:43
I was trying to con you into looking at each of those pubs and add them using the new interface :)

Just in case you missed any when you were originally doing it really. Also weren't there some areas we said no to when you originally did it (or am I getting mixed up with Leeds or one of the other breakdowns) as we felt they were too close to the centre? That being the case we are fine to have them on the new set up.

Oooh... Maybe if I read the thread from the start I might understand it. I'll try tomorrow when I've got 5 minutes ....

Update: I see now. I've got started on it

NickDavies
13-03-2011, 19:59
I must confess I wasn't brave enough to tackle Croydon, and was wondering who might do. I suspect part of the problem is the way much of this heartless and soulless post-war mess defies description, and the way most of it is generally described as either West, East or South is not unconnected with that. I wonder if those descriptions might help us here. Is most of what you have in mind for Central Croydon on the Western side of the A212? If so (and subject to the ongoing debate) I think that gives you the option of calling that West Croydon, or Central and West, or West and Central, and creating a separate area of East Croydon for things east of the 212. I think that might make it a lot easier to allocate things to them according to what direction they're in rather than necessarily how close they are. Just a thought.

I do wonder if

I went for everything within the tram loop but extended south as far as the flyover and included the Porter and Sorter by East Croydon Station. That doesn't leave all that many pubs without somewhere to go but as I said earlier I'm not keen on estate agent contrivances and nobody but the council uses ward names. I might go for tram stop names, which I'm sure were fretted long and hard over at the time.

Oh unless someone gets there before me, in which case well done!

NickDavies
13-03-2011, 20:06
I'm a bit unsure of the usage of 'Town Centre' to be honest, I think it tends to imply that it will only cover main shopping areas.


It might be more a London thing, especially in the outer ring - eg Kingston, Sutton, Croydon, Bromley, to distinguish the towns themselves from their boroughs, where those once rural towns are now swamped by a continuous urban sprawl.

Dave M
13-03-2011, 23:45
It might be more a London thing, especially in the outer ring - eg Kingston, Sutton, Croydon, Bromley, to distinguish the towns themselves from their boroughs, where those once rural towns are now swamped by a continuous urban sprawl.

Yes, to be honest as always any rules that we try to apply for most towns are going to fall apart when we try to apply them around Greater London. So it is probably best to go with local knowledge for the most part.

It is certainly interesting seeing how London is shaping up in general with all the corrections we've had so far.

aleandhearty
14-03-2011, 12:21
Blimey! A fair bit to catch up with. Should keep me out of mischief for a while.

Pubsignman
14-03-2011, 13:15
Firstly, I should congratulate Conrad and Dave on their new release. I think that over time it will prove to be a major asset to the site (even if London looks pretty daunting at the moment!).

I would normally be getting stuck in and sorting out various areas I'm familiar with, but I'm still without internet at home, so I can't join in until that is sorted later this month. I did however, manage to get online over the weekend and as a test I tried to add a new area for the Acorn (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/9920/), which is currently llisted as being in Poole, but is in reality in a suburb called Creekmoor.

I see that this area has not been added yet, which means that either Conrad and Dave have vast amounts of requests to get through and have not yet got round to looking at mine or, more likely, I did something wrong. I think the problem might have been that I didn't create a Poole Central area before creating an outlying area (the reason being that I just did the first pub on the list alphabetically as a test), but I thought that by selecting Poole (Postal District) as the main area, this would not be an issue. Any advice gratefully appreciated.

Also, thanks to Nick for cracking on with the Croydon pubs. I think that there are lots of pubs outside what we might define as the 'centre' which may still have to be listed as Croydon Central, such as the Windmill (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/35584/) which doesn't really come under any other area.

Regions that sprang to my mind for inclusion were: Shirley, Addiscombe, Waddon, Pitlake, Broad Green, Selhurst, Woodside, Monk's Orchard, Beddington, Forestdale and possibly something like 'South End' for pubs near the Swan and Sugarloaf (?) and perhaps a Purley Way area for places like the Gipsy Moth (?)

Conrad
14-03-2011, 13:15
Oooh... Maybe if I read the thread from the start I might understand it. I'll try tomorrow when I've got 5 minutes without the call of parenthood
Now see I feel guilty, don't worry about it, it can wait till Tuesday :whistle:

How are you acclimatising? Getting enough sleep?

Conrad
14-03-2011, 13:22
I see that this area has not been added yet, which means that either Conrad and Dave have vast amounts of requests to get through and have not yet got round to looking at mine or, more likely, I did something wrong. I think the problem might have been that I didn't create a Poole Central area before creating an outlying area (the reason being that I just did the first pub on the list alphabetically as a test), but I thought that by selecting Poole (Postal District) as the main area, this would not be an issue. Any advice gratefully appreciated.
Have to admit I am not quite sure what you are saying there. There is no change outstanding on the pub, so not sure what has happened but we haven't received it. There is no requirement for there to be a Central district first.

From the pub summary screen you should click on the 'correct details' button below the address. Then the 'Setup pubs locations' button. As there is no Creekmoor on the system yet, under the New area heading you would type Creekmoor in the box saying 'new area' and then click on the 'Add area' button. At this point a notification should appear at the top telling you that it is awaiting approval.

Hope that helps.

Pubsignman
14-03-2011, 13:58
From the pub summary screen you should click on the 'correct details' button below the address. Then the 'Setup pubs locations' button. As there is no Creekmoor on the system yet, under the New area heading you would type Creekmoor in the box saying 'new area' and then click on the 'Add area' button. At this point a notification should appear at the top telling you that it is awaiting approval.

Hope that helps.

That's strange - I firstly corrected the pub's location, as I noticed the marker was a few hundred yards too far down the road.
I then returned to the pub's page and followed the steps you mention, although I don't specifically recall seeing the notification.
I can only assume I didn't click the 'Add Area' box properly.

NickDavies
14-03-2011, 15:10
Regions that sprang to my mind for inclusion were: Shirley, Addiscombe, Waddon, Pitlake, Broad Green, Selhurst, Woodside, Monk's Orchard, Beddington, Forestdale and possibly something like 'South End' for pubs near the Swan and Sugarloaf (?) and perhaps a Purley Way area for places like the Gipsy Moth (?)

I guess it will never be an exact science. I was trying to avoid single-pub districts - but then there are some large areas with just one pub. Selsdon for example, though the hotel could keep the JDW company if someone added it. I was indeed fretting about the stretch from the flyover to the Tree House. "South End" seems fine. The stretch south of there, late unlamented Swan and Sugarloaf and so on is properly South Croydon.

Dave M
14-03-2011, 15:16
Just thought I'd give a bit of a progress report on this feature.

Since we released it on Friday there have been in excess of 2,400 corrections submitted. Looking at my list awaiting approval there are about 700 waiting for me at the moment so don't be alarmed if yours haven't been dealt with yet as I will get to them soon. I hope!

It is really good to see some areas now taking real shape so thanks to everyone who has taken to helping sort places out.

Some examples of what is going on include:-
Old Boots has made sure that all the open pubs in York postal town (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/towns/york/north-yorkshire/) have now been sorted into an area (except for The Castle Howard Ox (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/56444/) for some curious reason)

Oggwyn has sorted out most of Shropshire (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/counties/shropshire/).

Nick Davies has brought about some much needed order to Oxford (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/towns/oxford/oxfordshire/).

Al 10000 has been able to continue the task of organising Nottingham (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/towns/nottingham/nottinghamshire/).

ROBCamra is busily taking on the task of the whole of Greater Manchester (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/counties/greater-manchester/). :eek:

And then there are at least half a dozen people working on Central and Greater London which I think is finally helping us make some sense of the capital. :notworthy:

Thanks to everyone who is helping out and keep them coming. I'll get back to approving.

Dave M
14-03-2011, 15:26
I guess it will never be an exact science. I was trying to avoid single-pub districts - but then there are some large areas with just one pub.

I don't think people should be afraid of single pub districts.

If it is appropriate name for where the pub is then go for it.

Take this google search for 'julian huxley selsdon (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=julian+huxley+selsdon)' - if we didn't have the Selsdon area then we wouldn't have appeared at all on that search. For me the Selsdon page appears 6th (Google is a strange beast so your results may be different!)

Farway
14-03-2011, 15:52
I don't think people should be afraid of single pub districts.



That's good to know because there are few down here, due mainly to pub closures, not heavenly design

Oggwyn Trench
14-03-2011, 16:50
I reckon i have just about finished Shropshire , so i will start to look at the bits of Herefordshire , Worcestershire and Cheshire that i know , unless someone else beats me to it

NickDavies
14-03-2011, 17:00
That's good to know because there are few down here, due mainly to pub closures, not heavenly design

Indeed and there are countless one-pub villages. I'm just not keen on sanctifying, say, a suburban estate name because the one pub in it isn't near anywhere central. In a country town we probably wouldn't give an area a mile out its own identity. In suburbia you get a row of a couple of shops, a bookies, a chippy and a pub a mile from three sizeable centres and end up separating it out. But sometimes it's the only way.

NickDavies
14-03-2011, 19:46
Simple question: are people doing closed pubs? I don't mind ploughing through them but if nobody else is...

Strongers
14-03-2011, 20:14
Simple question: are people doing closed pubs? I don't mind ploughing through them but if nobody else is...

I wasn't, but then I started to.

Rex_Rattus
14-03-2011, 20:22
Simple question: are people doing closed pubs? I don't mind ploughing through them but if nobody else is...

Good "heads up" Nick - they can easily get overlooked. Thanks.

Oggwyn Trench
14-03-2011, 20:27
Simple question: are people doing closed pubs? I don't mind ploughing through them but if nobody else is...

Not at the moment , forgot all about them , will give it a go when the open ones are sorted

Oggwyn Trench
14-03-2011, 20:38
Done all the Cheshire , Herefordshire , Worcestershire areas i know exept Worcester (will have a go tomorrow), i may have to tweak a couple in Chesters outskirts , it will be clearer once all the Central/New Areas are approved , i need a beer:D

oldboots
14-03-2011, 21:25
Old Boots has made sure that all the open pubs in York postal town (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/towns/york/north-yorkshire/) have now been sorted into an area (except for The Castle Howard Ox (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/56444/) for some curious reason)



It's in a funny area without much identity so I left it for a ponder, I've now stuck it in the nearest area until some York resident sorts it out. I am slowly working through North Yorks although a couple of places don't have many pubs outside the central area so I might leave them as is, Catterick Garrison, Guisborough and Hawes spring to mind. I'll leave West Yorks to A&H, and others I think.

Maldenman
14-03-2011, 22:55
I was also wondering about greater london suburbs, and whilst there might be a straightforward "just do whatever feels like it's most useful and least confusing to site visitors" answer, thought this might be worth floating for views. Taking Surbiton as an example I think well known to several prolific posters, currently it has 27 open pubs, of which only one is in an area, Long Ditton (I suspect that may have happened because of unexciting reasons to do with the administrative and postal boundaries not marrying up) and that feels a bit silly. We could either (a) get rid of the Long Ditton area and just keep everything under Surbiton, on the basis that it's not a very big area and 27 isn't a great deal of pubs that actually needs dividing up further, or (b) divide the rest up into areas.

The most logical way to divide up, thinking about distances between pubs so it might be useful when planning a crawl, and also based on generally accepted area names might be to have the following areas:
Tolworth - 5 pubs
Berrylands - 5
Hook - 2 (this could also pick up a couple of Hook pubs that are in Chessington postal town, if you can do that)
Long Ditton - 1
Surbiton Town, or Surbiton Town Centre - 17 pubs
which adds up to 30 as there are 3 pubs I'd put in two areas because they're somewhere in between.

Lots of people on the river side of Surbiton have been calling their bit 'Surbiton Village' in recent years, and would doubtless prefer that, which would potentially take 7 pubs out of Surbiton Town and into a new area of Surbiton Village. Though I'd be inclined not to do that as (a) Surbiton Village isn't a generally recognised description, thus could be confusing (b) there's not really enough distance between them to make this a particularly useful distinction when e.g. planning crawls (c) you could get into an argument over whether 3 of the 7 pubs actually qualified for inclusion in the 'village', and (d) there is a school of thought that 'Surbiton Village' as a concept only reflects some of its residents being completely up themselves.

Finally, one could put one of the pubs in an area called 'Seething Wells', which they make much of on their website, but that would seem to be a ridiculous distinction to make on this site.

Whilst writing, I'm coming round to my original thought that doing whatever feels best might be the simple answer.

I do think that there can be a tendency to form sub-divisions of areas where they are not required or warranted and which will cause confusion and also potentially leave pubs out of an area listing. As I know Surbiton and its environs intimately this is a good example. I would agree with adding Tolworth as a sub-district despite it only having two pubs now, possibly even Berrylands which has one pub but boundaries have been blurred too much. Maybe I'm wrong but to me this idea was to help tidy up the city areas and larger towns into more manageable chunks rather than try to chop everything down to its smallest parts.

Oh and (d) above certainly isn't a school of thought Old Blue......it's a nailed on fact :rolleyes:

Strongers
14-03-2011, 23:46
I do think that there can be a tendency to form sub-divisions of areas where they are not required or warranted and which will cause confusion and also potentially leave pubs out of an area listing. As I know Surbiton and its environs intimately this is a good example. I would agree with adding Tolworth as a sub-district despite it only having two pubs now, possibly even Berrylands which has one pub but boundaries have been blurred too much. Maybe I'm wrong but to me this idea was to help tidy up the city areas and larger towns into more manageable chunks rather than try to chop everything down to its smallest parts.

Oh and (d) above certainly isn't a school of thought Old Blue......it's a nailed on fact :rolleyes:

I think that the best way to look at it is to imagine that you've never been on this site before and you are trying to find a pub to go to in a certain area. In London I think that most people will either search for a decent pub nearest the tube station that they are alighting from or for an area that they will be spending the evening in eg Soho, Fleet Street etc. So if the 'Dog and Duck' is in Surbiton, but the general area is more Berrylands and the nearest station is Berrylands I would put the pub in both areas.

If this is not the general consensus I will cease in my activities, but I think it makes sense.

PS: I think that Conrad and Dave should avoid North West London for a while because the reclassification of the NW3 postcode has wiped off millions of pounds from the housing market. I've seen many mini metros in the Foxtons gang colours driving around the back streets baying for blood and chanting "you're Welsh and you know you are".

Andy Ven
15-03-2011, 08:33
Just thought I'd give a bit of a progress report on this feature.

Since we released it on Friday there have been in excess of 2,400 corrections submitted. Looking at my list awaiting approval there are about 700 waiting for me at the moment so don't be alarmed if yours haven't been dealt with yet as I will get to them soon. I hope!

It is really good to see some areas now taking real shape so thanks to everyone who has taken to helping sort places out.

Some examples of what is going on include:-
Old Boots has made sure that all the open pubs in York postal town (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/towns/york/north-yorkshire/) have now been sorted into an area (except for The Castle Howard Ox (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/56444/) for some curious reason)

Oggwyn has sorted out most of Shropshire (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/counties/shropshire/).

Nick Davies has brought about some much needed order to Oxford (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/towns/oxford/oxfordshire/).

Al 10000 has been able to continue the task of organising Nottingham (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/towns/nottingham/nottinghamshire/).

ROBCamra is busily taking on the task of the whole of Greater Manchester (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/counties/greater-manchester/). :eek:

And then there are at least half a dozen people working on Central and Greater London which I think is finally helping us make some sense of the capital. :notworthy:

Thanks to everyone who is helping out and keep them coming. I'll get back to approving.

I've done Walsall and I'm working my way through Birmingham. Nice feature!

Farway
15-03-2011, 13:50
Simple question: are people doing closed pubs? I don't mind ploughing through them but if nobody else is...

It is on my "to do" list once the open Pompey ones are completed, which may be while as I am tending to only do one area a day

Al 10000
15-03-2011, 17:26
Hi Conrad and Dave,

I am trying to sort Hull and derby out.
I have been to Hull a lot and and talking to people there they dont talk about living in areas its either East,West or North Hull but i did'nt know which area i should put inner city areas just to the north of the city centre.

I know Derby quite well but there are a lot of pubs to the west of the city centre which are not in an area of there own but also are not in the central area.

If you have any ideas what to do about this i would appreciate it.

Thanks Alan

Rex_Rattus
15-03-2011, 18:27
I think that the best way to look at it is to imagine that you've never been on this site before and you are trying to find a pub to go to in a certain area. ".

That's a sound starting point. I think it's going to largely be horses for courses, and will depend on specific circumstances. But what I am not doing is creating new places that have hitherto not existed. For example, I would not create a place called Clapham Junction just to put The Falcon in it. Clapham Junction is a railway station that is in Battersea (not Clapham), a very well known area of London that is good enough for me. But I'm not going to be hidebound over things like this. There are places that have come into being by association with things that are there. Formally there is no such place as Elephant and Castle or Waterloo (well there is, but it's in Belgium) but they've come into existence as places because of the railway station, and the name of the massive Victorian pub that used to be at Newington Butts. In fact these are already now very real places and I'm not going to try and turn the clock back. Well, that's my take on it anyway.

oldboots
15-03-2011, 18:50
Hi Conrad and Dave,

I am trying to sort Hull and derby out.
I have been to Hull a lot and and talking to people there they dont talk about living in areas its either East,West or North Hull but i did'nt know which area i should put inner city areas just to the north of the city centre.


If you have any ideas what to do about this i would appreciate it.



Maybe Sculcoates to the north west and Stoneferry or Summergangs to the north/north east unless they're too far out of the centre, I only drive through those bits of Hull.

Can't help on Derby although my A-Z shows going clockwise from the SW, St Lukes, New Zealand and then the area by the University as "almost" Markeaton, but I don't know what the locals call them.

Dave M
15-03-2011, 19:02
So if the 'Dog and Duck' is in Surbiton, but the general area is more Berrylands and the nearest station is Berrylands I would put the pub in both areas.

If this is not the general consensus I will cease in my activities, but I think it makes sense.

Yeah that certainly seems fine to me, I think this is the one of the nice things about the new system in that we aren't constrained to saying a pub is in one area or the other. What is also good is that things are evolving, I've seen a few people making changes to their changes already as they work out better ways of classifying areas once they see them appear on the site.


PS: I think that Conrad and Dave should avoid North West London for a while because the reclassification of the NW3 postcode has wiped off millions of pounds from the housing market. I've seen many mini metros in the Foxtons gang colours driving around the back streets baying for blood and chanting "you're Welsh and you know you are".

:D

Well that is Foxtons not being imaginative enough. Sure they may have lost Hampstead for some parts of NW3 but they have gained Belsize Park which sounds like it is worth a doubling of prices at least.


Hi Conrad and Dave,

I am trying to sort Hull and derby out.
I have been to Hull a lot and and talking to people there they dont talk about living in areas its either East,West or North Hull but i did'nt know which area i should put inner city areas just to the north of the city centre.

I know Derby quite well but there are a lot of pubs to the west of the city centre which are not in an area of there own but also are not in the central area.

If you have any ideas what to do about this i would appreciate it.

Thanks Alan

Al,

I've just approved the Hull suggestions you've done so far which should help get an idea of how the areas are starting to look. My inclination is to say that pubs just outside city centres that have no identifiable area should probably be classified as Hull Central, Derby Central or the same in any city.

Looking at an example I'd say that The County (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/69406/) is as you say not in the City Centre of Hull but it is still pretty much Central.

ROBCamra
15-03-2011, 19:18
[/QUOTE] Looking at an example I'd say that The County (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/69406/) is as you say not in the City Centre of Hull but it is still pretty much Central.[/QUOTE]

In Hull there is a fairly undefined area that is called CHULLN when abbeviated. It stands for Central Hull North.

It might not be a specific area but it would certainly define where it is.

Anything north of Freetown Way up to around The Whalebone on Wincomalee is considered to be in CHULLN.

Once you get north of there its Sculcoates or Wilmington or Summergangs depending on how far East you go.

So an area called Hull Central North may be the option. What do you think Dave?

Oggwyn Trench
15-03-2011, 20:14
Just had a go at Worcester , theres no name for the mass of new housing estates to the North East of the city (between Shrub Hill Station and the Rugby Ground and bordered by Northwick and Red Hill), so i have put them under North East Worcester rather than just naming all the estates individualy , obviously this can be altered later if someone has a better idea

Strongers
16-03-2011, 00:09
When the dust settles and the rush to get these areas sorted is coming to a close what will be the procedure for changing areas that one does not agree with? I can see that the areas have minus signs next to them, but what happens if two posters disagree?

Also, I've tended not to use the 'town' suffix in London if it is not actually classed as a town as I think it is misleading. Harking back to Hampstead that I know very well and is a good example as it is like many places in the smoke – ‘Hampstead’ suffices because it is Hampstead, not Hampstead Town or Central or High Street. If you travel far enough away it becomes somewhere else, not Outer Hampstead or Hampstead Environs – Nobody looking for a pint in Hampstead is going to type ‘Hampstead Environs’ I think that breaking up areas for the sake of it makes the search harder for people looking for a decent pub.

ROBCamra
16-03-2011, 09:58
Since I started to sort out much of the coverage in Oldham & Blackley, Wild Rover has pointed out several closed pubs in those areas.

Another "hidden" benefit. :cheers:

Maldenman
16-03-2011, 10:36
Also, I've tended not to use the 'town' suffix in London if it is not actually classed as a town as I think it is misleading. Harking back to Hampstead that I know very well and is a good example as it is like many places in the smoke – ‘Hampstead’ suffices because it is Hampstead, not Hampstead Town or Central or High Street. If you travel far enough away it becomes somewhere else, not Outer Hampstead or Hampstead Environs – Nobody looking for a pint in Hampstead is going to type ‘Hampstead Environs’ I think that breaking up areas for the sake of it makes the search harder for people looking for a decent pub.

Absolutely, agree entirely.

aleandhearty
16-03-2011, 11:48
I'll leave West Yorks to A&H, and others I think.

Still haven't had chance to trawl through the whole thread, but have just worked through about 95% of Wakefield (need to swot up on local geography, for a few stragglers) and will start Leeds v.soon.

Conrad
16-03-2011, 13:01
When the dust settles and the rush to get these areas sorted is coming to a close what will be the procedure for changing areas that one does not agree with? I can see that the areas have minus signs next to them, but what happens if two posters disagree?
I'll let them argue about it. It is highly unlikely I will know better than them, and it has done my head in for years, I say let them go insane :p


Also, I've tended not to use the 'town' suffix in London if it is not actually classed as a town as I think it is misleading. Harking back to Hampstead that I know very well and is a good example as it is like many places in the smoke – ‘Hampstead’ suffices because it is Hampstead, not Hampstead Town or Central or High Street. If you travel far enough away it becomes somewhere else, not Outer Hampstead or Hampstead Environs – Nobody looking for a pint in Hampstead is going to type ‘Hampstead Environs’ I think that breaking up areas for the sake of it makes the search harder for people looking for a decent pub.
The town suffix is only really a concern where the town has the same name as the Postal District, so for instance we have a Croydon Town Centre district because we have a Croydon postal district. With Hampstead the postal district is NW3, so Hampstead makes more sense.

Al 10000
16-03-2011, 14:58
Thanks for all your suggestions on Hull

I will go with Hull Central North for pubs north of freetown way,i have done most pubs in Summergangs which is east of the river hull but the locals always say they live in East Hull so i will stick with that.

Quinno
16-03-2011, 15:06
quick post to say that the hard work has definitely been worth it, done a few amendments just now :) good work D&C!

Farway
16-03-2011, 15:11
Yeah that certainly seems fine to me, I think this is the one of the nice things about the new system in that we aren't constrained to saying a pub is in one area or the other. .

Nice to see that reply, saves me asking the question about pubs being in one local area but different Postal Districts

Conrad
16-03-2011, 15:24
Nice to see that reply, saves me asking the question about pubs being in one local area but different Postal Districts
Yeah I guess the easiest way to look at this is that we get to set the postal district and can police it at that level and below that we let those who actually know what they are on about set it (and argue about it ;)).

ROBCamra
16-03-2011, 17:11
Right, I think I've completed all the open pubs in Rochdale, Oldham & Ashton U Lyne and their surrounding areas.

Now all we need is some reviews for the last two. I may have to go on an excursion sometime soon. :cheers:

Oggwyn Trench
16-03-2011, 19:02
Had a tidy up of the Wirral , will look at Birkenhead and surroundings later in the week , will i get away with marking Birkenhead Centre as Hellmand Province:D

oldboots
16-03-2011, 19:52
Had a tidy up of the Wirral , will look at Birkenhead and surroundings later in the week , will i get away with marking Birkenhead Centre as Hellmand Province:D

Shame on you, I think that's doing a dis-service to the place,



Hellmand I mean



Birkenhead's not twinned with Hellmand but haven't they got a suicide pact ?

Conrad
17-03-2011, 14:50
Oi, my Dad used to live in Birkenhead, right up until the day he died .....

Yeah, ok, I take your point.

Oggwyn Trench
17-03-2011, 20:18
Now done Birkenhead , Wallasey and Prenton , it will probally need a few admendments once its all approved as a few areas cross the postal districts . Done Wrexham as well , pretty easy compared to Birkenhead etc

ROBCamra
18-03-2011, 09:56
Well I think I've now finished Manchester.

Now to finish Bury, Bolton & Salford and start Stockport & Altrincham.

I may be gone some time. :p

Conrad
18-03-2011, 12:52
Well a week in and can I just say what an amazing response.

In general people seem relatively comfortable with this release, and where people haven't enjoyed it they seem willing to give it a chance. So it is an update that has left me quite positive. And thanks for the patience of those who wanted to update areas but held off for this update.

Also just a :notworthy: to all the extensive work of members cleaning up all the areas I was expecting a rush, but the amount of effort everyone has put in is incredible and has I believe made the site far more informative.

Farway
18-03-2011, 14:36
Well I think I've now finished Manchester.

Now to finish Bury, Bolton & Salford and start Stockport & Altrincham.



I am in awe at this, I thought my tinkering around Portsmouth would be longish job, given lack of my speed, but well done ROB for this one

Al 10000
18-03-2011, 16:59
I would just like to say i do like the new system and when you put the effort into sorting cities and towns out i have found the outcome is very good.

At the start of this thread i asked about seperating towns from the villages but i have decided to start doing this myself so far i have sorted out Beverley, Buxton, Bridport, Ilkeston, and Nantwich,all i do is add Town to the list then do this for every pub in that town then if anyone wants to just view pubs in that town you just click on the town button.

I am hoping to do this for as many towns as possible but i was hoping i could get some help in doing this as it is a very big task to do on my own this is why my reviews have almost ground to an halt.

Thanks Alan

ROBCamra
18-03-2011, 17:00
Ok, this is now out and able to be used.

Let me know what you think and if you have any questions.

Conrad,

I've just noticed that if I look at "My Contributions" it tells me how many pubs I've contributed to including the ones I've amended the Coverage for. However there isn't any coloured block next to the pub name to show what the contribution was.

i.e it says RobCamra has conributed no photo's, hasn't amended the map point, hasn't reviewed etc. which looks a little strange.

Is this going to be added in a later release, or is it just a glitch? :cheers:

Conrad
18-03-2011, 17:51
Conrad,

I've just noticed that if I look at "My Contributions" it tells me how many pubs I've contributed to including the ones I've amended the Coverage for. However there isn't any coloured block next to the pub name to show what the contribution was.

i.e it says RobCamra has conributed no photo's, hasn't amended the map point, hasn't reviewed etc. which looks a little strange.

Is this going to be added in a later release, or is it just a glitch? :cheers:
It is a bug really. It relates to the way we do those user pages, really I need to give some serious thought to how to sort them out.

My feeling is that you don't really care to see how a user has sorted an area, so exclude them from that view when I get to it?

Conrad
18-03-2011, 17:57
Ok, a minor tweak.

It is a toy for those of you who are trying to clear out these postal districts. It is a view of pubs that are not yet covered. So 2 examples:
Birmingham (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/townsu/birmingham/west-midlands/) (Andy Ven is a nutter :))
Liverpool (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/townsu/liverpool/merseyside/) (A work in progress)

To see the link to this version I have to give you permissions, this is just so that it doesn't confuse people who don't know what is going on. I have arbitrarily handed it out to members I think will be interested, but just ask if you want it.

If you have it, it will be on the right under the Follow area's pubs button. A button saying 'Arealess pubs', also this is effectively what used to be the old town page in many respects, but as things get moved into 'Central' areas it will become redundant for that purpose.

Anyway, usual thing, just ask if you want more of an explanation of any of that, or the ability to see the button.

Al 10000
18-03-2011, 18:05
Hi Conrad,

I have just read what you have done but i dont understand what this means and i could'nt find a button to see what this does.

Conrad
18-03-2011, 18:18
Hi Conrad,

I have just read what you have done but i dont understand what this means and i could'nt find a button to see what this does.
I did add you to it, you may need to log out and then in again.

Those pages when you get to them, will only show pubs in that Postal District which do not have any areas for their coverage. So in Birmingham Andy has gone for it and moved every possible pub into an area, so the list is empty.

I hope that makes a little more sense.

ROBCamra
18-03-2011, 18:45
It is a bug really. It relates to the way we do those user pages, really I need to give some serious thought to how to sort them out.

My feeling is that you don't really care to see how a user has sorted an area, so exclude them from that view when I get to it?

I agree. I haven't really contributed to those pubs at all, so I'd just ignore them if I were you.

ROBCamra
18-03-2011, 18:47
Do I have the link Conrad?

I'm not sure I want to log out. It's so long since I logged in (months at least) that I can't remember my password anyway. :)

Conrad
18-03-2011, 18:58
Do I have the link Conrad?

I'm not sure I want to log out. It's so long since I logged in (months at least) that I can't remember my password anyway. :)
You should have, I think the biggest miracle of that is that the remember me works for someone :).

You don't strictly speaking have to log out, just not do anything on the site for a while, probably an hour to be safe. The system temporarily caches your permissions rather than look them up whilst you are browsing the site.

Let me know if you are not seeing the links in a while, there may be a bug there, it is a little difficult for me to check offhand though.

Edit: I did just contrive a test and it is working for me here. You will only see these links on Postal District pages.

ROBCamra
18-03-2011, 19:06
You don't strictly speaking have to log out, just not do anything on the site for a while, probably an hour to be safe.

Going out for a few beers in an hour or so should sort it by the time I get back then. :nishelypished::p

sheffield hatter
18-03-2011, 20:37
Ok, a minor tweak. It is a toy for those of you who are trying to clear out these postal districts. It is a view of pubs that are not yet covered.

Hey, this is really good! I just wish you'd thought of it before I did the whole of Sheffield manually.:moremad:

No, seriously, this will give me the incentive I need to tackle other areas. Nice one! :)

Andy Ven
18-03-2011, 21:14
It is a toy for those of you who are trying to clear out these postal districts. It is a view of pubs that are not yet covered. So 2 examples:
Birmingham (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/townsu/birmingham/west-midlands/) (Andy Ven is a nutter :))


It taps into my obsession for order.

Your (Conrad's) link to Birmingham returned no pubs in Birmingham so any Birmingham fanatics can see the whole of Birmingham with this link http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/towns/birmingham/west-midlands/ or Birmingham Central (including closed pubs) http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/areas/birmingham-central/west-midlands/. The best of both worlds!

It was so exciting I did Walsall, Wolverhampton, Dudley, West Bromwich and a few more bits ;)

ROBCamra
19-03-2011, 01:05
You should have, I think the biggest miracle of that is that the remember me works for someone :).

You don't strictly speaking have to log out, just not do anything on the site for a while, probably an hour to be safe. The system temporarily caches your permissions rather than look them up whilst you are browsing the site.



Yep that works, no pubs in Manchester and only 15 in Bolton. I'll sort that. :cheers:

NickDavies
19-03-2011, 12:39
Have I broken something here

http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/areas/st-james%27s/central-london/

possibly because there is already a St James's Park area and I made a St James's? Parsing error?

Just made a St John's Wood with similar effect

Al 10000
19-03-2011, 12:52
Hi Conrad,

Thanks for the new way of seeing what pubs need to be done i have now completed Nottingham, Hull and Derby,i will carry on sorting towns out and also look for another large city that i have been to that as not been sorted yet.

Oggwyn Trench
19-03-2011, 13:52
Done a few corrections to Wallasey and Prenton (my fault) and have now done most of Clwyd , i will start working my way down the border into Powys and Herefordshire , definatley need a pint or six tonight:D

rpadam
19-03-2011, 14:28
Have I broken something here

http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/areas/st-james%27s/central-london/

possibly because there is already a St James's Park area and I made a St James's? Parsing error?

Just made a St John's Wood with similar effect
I was going to tackle St James's at some stage, having already done St James's Park.

There is, to my mind, an important distinction between the two, with St James's Park being the area around the tube station of that name (i.e. to the south of the park), with the (original) St James's being the area to the north of the park of that ilk, east of Green Park, south of Piccadilly and west of Haymarket.

NickDavies
19-03-2011, 14:42
I was going to tackle St James's at some stage, having already done St James's Park.

There is, to my mind, an important distinction between the two, with St James's Park being the area around the tube station of that name (i.e. to the south of the park), with the (original) St James's being the area to the north of the park of that ilk, east of Green Park, south of Piccadilly and west of Haymarket.

Exactly what I've done, but a glitch in the system

Oggwyn Trench
19-03-2011, 16:05
Finished Powys , all those weird Welsh names have done my head in , though i now have a mad urge to drink some Purple Moose :cheers:

sheffield hatter
19-03-2011, 16:12
Conrad,

I've been trying to improve the Lake District areas by putting individual village pubs in larger areas defined by the valleys in which they are found. Thus the pubs in Pooley Bridge, Patterdale and Glenridding are now also in Ullswater, the three pubs in Boot are also in Eskdale, and the three pubs in Stonethwaite, Rosthwaite and Seatoller are also in Borrowdale.

However, in one instance this has resulted in a change to the pub's address: The Langstrath Country Inn (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/61067/) is now shown as being at Borrowdale in Stonethwaite, rather than at Stonethwaite in Borrowdale. (Ideally, Borrowdale should not be part of the address at all.) Is this just random or as a result of an error on my part? Can you correct it at your end or is there a fix I can do?

Cheers

rpadam
19-03-2011, 16:58
i now have a mad urge to drink some Purple Moose
Never a mad urge!

Conrad
19-03-2011, 18:11
Have I broken something here

http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/areas/st-james%27s/central-london/

possibly because there is already a St James's Park area and I made a St James's? Parsing error?

Just made a St John's Wood with similar effect
A problem at our end to do with apostrophes, they are not technically allowed in the address and I was mishandling them. The St James's link (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/areas/st-jamess/central-london/) has been changed and any new areas will be handled correctly.


However, in one instance this has resulted in a change to the pub's address: The Langstrath Country Inn (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/61067/) is now shown as being at Borrowdale in Stonethwaite, rather than at Stonethwaite in Borrowdale. (Ideally, Borrowdale should not be part of the address at all.) Is this just random or as a result of an error on my part? Can you correct it at your end or is there a fix I can do?
Basically the street of the pub had been set to be Borrowdale, presumably just a way to get the pub into the system as it has no street. We have blanked it for the moment, which is not ideal, but doesn't cause major problems for now.

Oggwyn Trench
19-03-2011, 21:32
Never a mad urge!

Good timing , they had Calon Lan on in the Crown , loveeeellllyy(thats welsh , that is)

Andy Ven
19-03-2011, 22:41
Conrad/Dave,

The facility to have all pubs in the same 'coverage' listed together is great because, for instance, if I want to update Birmingham central I can print off just one list..... but ! a print of one page is a little unwieldy because of everything else that is on a PG page. Even with printing a selected area the details for each pub takes up a couple of lines. Would it be possible to develop a print friendly option for each page so that I can print one line per pub showing its name and address and whether it has a photo, a review or a rating?

Similarly, if I print the map view page, the map and list of pubs shown on it are always printed on separate sheets. Is a print-friendly all-on-one-page option possible for maps and the list of corresponding pubs?

Strongers
20-03-2011, 01:01
I've twisted myself all over the place in the last two days trying to do some of London that I know and the more beers I have more the parameters change... AAAAAARGH!!!

Strongers
20-03-2011, 01:34
I'm still a bit confused about the allocation of an area if it is the name of a borough. Barnet, as an example, is a London Borough, but also a real place. I think that my question is, should every pub in Greater London have coverage marked against it? dog and duck, barnet, barnet?

Rex_Rattus
20-03-2011, 11:29
I've been adding these as "coverage areas". If (say) there is a postal town called Barnet then it will probably encompass a larger area then just Barnet proper, so it makes sense to me to give those pubs that are actually in Barnet proper to be allocated "Barnet" as a coverage area. Anyway, the coverage areas don't appear in the address, so the Dog & Duck will only have one Barnet show in its address - i.e. because Barnet is the postal area. That's how it looks to be working - I hope I've got it right.

NickDavies
20-03-2011, 11:47
I've been adding these as "coverage areas". If (say) there is a postal town called Barnet then it will probably encompass a larger area then just Barnet proper, so it makes sense to me to give those pubs that are actually in Barnet proper to be allocated "Barnet" as a coverage area. Anyway, the coverage areas don't appear in the address, so the Dog & Duck will only have one Barnet show in its address - i.e. because Barnet is the postal area. That's how it looks to be working - I hope I've got it right.

Exactly. To pick somewhere at random, say you were planning an day out investigating Dorking's cultural attractions. As it stands at the moment, if you land here (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/towns/dorking/surrey/) you get presented with links to all the surrounding villages but not Dorking itself - you need to inspect the list of pubs to plan your visit. So it needs someone to create an area called Dorking and stick all the town's pubs in it. I don't think in this example it needs to be qualified by 'town' or anything like that as Dorking is fairly compact - no outlying suburbs to separate out- and the context is obvious.

sheffield hatter
20-03-2011, 12:28
Would it be possible to develop a print friendly option for each page so that I can print one line per pub showing its name and address and whether it has a photo, a review or a rating?

Similarly, if I print the map view page, the map and list of pubs shown on it are always printed on separate sheets. Is a print-friendly all-on-one-page option possible for maps and the list of corresponding pubs?

I use the "alt-print screen" facility, which enables you to paste a screen shot into a word processor document. This works for both lists and maps. Admittedly not as convenient as a print page option in the website itself, but it works!

sheffield hatter
20-03-2011, 12:32
So it needs someone to create an area called Dorking and stick all the town's pubs in it. I don't think in this example it needs to be qualified by 'town' or anything like that as Dorking is fairly compact - no outlying suburbs to separate out- and the context is obvious.

I've done this in Leek by creating a Leek Town Centre area, and the same in Barrow in Furness, but I've limited myself to those pubs that are fairly central - there are some on the outskirts that don't seem to have defined areas with names, so I've just left them out. A "Leek Outskirts" would be an option, but is probably getting too complicated and not terribly useful, as no one is likely to want to visit all the pubs in the N, E, S and W outskirts in one go.

Andy Ven
20-03-2011, 12:47
I use the "alt-print screen" facility, which enables you to paste a screen shot into a word processor document. This works for both lists and maps. Admittedly not as convenient as a print page option in the website itself, but it works!

Thanks for the suggestion!

Al 10000
20-03-2011, 15:15
as no one is likely to want to visit all the pubs in the N, E, S and W outskirts in one go.

I would

Rex_Rattus
20-03-2011, 15:22
I've done this in Leek by creating a Leek Town Centre area, and the same in Barrow in Furness, but I've limited myself to those pubs that are fairly central - there are some on the outskirts that don't seem to have defined areas with names, so I've just left them out. A "Leek Outskirts" would be an option, but is probably getting too complicated and not terribly useful, as no one is likely to want to visit all the pubs in the N, E, S and W outskirts in one go.
That's one way of dealing with it. But those pubs that aren't slap bang in the centre of Leek must be somewhere. Now I don't really know anything about Leek, but if it's big enough for parts of it to have their own names then I reckon they can be created as such - but if not, I would just stick all of the pubs - central, and not so central - in "Leek".
Oh, "no one is likely to want to visit all the pubs in the N, E, S and W outskirts in one go" - you've not met RogerB then have you?

Al 10000
20-03-2011, 17:22
It is a bug really. It relates to the way we do those user pages, really I need to give some serious thought to how to sort them out.

My feeling is that you don't really care to see how a user has sorted an area, so exclude them from that view when I get to it?

Hi Conrad,

When are all the pubs that we have altered the area to that are listed on our user page going to be deleted as this gives a false impression of how many pubs we have contributed to.

Cheers Alan

Conrad
20-03-2011, 17:47
Conrad/Dave,

The facility to have all pubs in the same 'coverage' listed together is great because, for instance, if I want to update Birmingham central I can print off just one list..... but ! a print of one page is a little unwieldy because of everything else that is on a PG page. Even with printing a selected area the details for each pub takes up a couple of lines. Would it be possible to develop a print friendly option for each page so that I can print one line per pub showing its name and address and whether it has a photo, a review or a rating?

Similarly, if I print the map view page, the map and list of pubs shown on it are always printed on separate sheets. Is a print-friendly all-on-one-page option possible for maps and the list of corresponding pubs?
I am not sure about the print page to show all the details including pub and the rest. Assuming I excluded the header (which I think we already do) and the map from the right would all the rest of the data on an areas page be what you wanted printed?

As to printing the maps page that is a problem for when I rewrite the maps.


Exactly. To pick somewhere at random, say you were planning an day out investigating Dorking's cultural attractions. As it stands at the moment, if you land here (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/towns/dorking/surrey/) you get presented with links to all the surrounding villages but not Dorking itself - you need to inspect the list of pubs to plan your visit. So it needs someone to create an area called Dorking and stick all the town's pubs in it. I don't think in this example it needs to be qualified by 'town' or anything like that as Dorking is fairly compact - no outlying suburbs to separate out- and the context is obvious.
I am not sure the context is obvious if you are not familiar with the site, I think the Dorking area does need some sort of qualifier in the name to separate it from the Dorking Postal district page, otherwise we have 2 Dorking pages.


Hi Conrad,

When are all the pubs that we have altered the area to that are listed on our user page going to be deleted as this gives a false impression of how many pubs we have contributed to.

Cheers Alan
I am not sure, the problem needs assessing, the thing is, they are contributions to the pub, just not contributions that you care to see apparently. Even if I just fix this though it doesn't sort out any of the other issues that the user contribution pages have.

sheffield hatter
20-03-2011, 19:19
That's one way of dealing with it. But those pubs that aren't slap bang in the centre of Leek must be somewhere. Now I don't really know anything about Leek, but if it's big enough for parts of it to have their own names then I reckon they can be created as such - but if not, I would just stick all of the pubs - central, and not so central - in "Leek".


I thought of that, but I remembered that Dave and Conrad had not been keen on this when it was brought up before, so I went with "town centre". (Conrad's more recent post also reiterates this point.) There comes a point where the "town centre" designation becomes inappropriate, so I just left those pubs arealess. Every town is different, so it's unlikely we'll get a solution to this that fits all. I think we just have to accept that there are some pubs that belong to a town but are not actually in it, or at least not in the centre, and leave it at that. Unless someone's got a better idea?

PaulOfHorsham
20-03-2011, 20:03
I have created a 'Town (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/areas/horsham-town/west-sussex/)' sub-district for one place and added all the appropriate pubs. I expect to also add a sub-district for the Roffey area, as there are 3 or so that would benefit from a more specific location (so these would be in 2 areas). I suppose I could also have a 'Horsham town centre' as well, but then I think I'm running the risk of clutter.

At present, I am inclined to give a Town suffix to smallish places (such as Dorking, as it happens) and 'Central' for larger towns and cities (Crawley & Brighton spring to mind here), with sub-districts for various suburbs and estates.

ROBCamra
20-03-2011, 20:11
I thought of that, but I remembered that Dave and Conrad had not been keen on this when it was brought up before, so I went with "town centre". (Conrad's more recent post also reiterates this point.) There comes a point where the "town centre" designation becomes inappropriate, so I just left those pubs arealess. Every town is different, so it's unlikely we'll get a solution to this that fits all. I think we just have to accept that there are some pubs that belong to a town but are not actually in it, or at least not in the centre, and leave it at that. Unless someone's got a better idea?

http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/34394/

Well for example I would say that this pub is at Bridge End which is a specific area on the outskirts of Leek.

sheffield hatter
20-03-2011, 20:30
http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/34394/Well for example I would say that this pub is at Bridge End which is a specific area on the outskirts of Leek.

If you know the names of the outskirts, please go ahead and create them - I really only know the town centre, hence my hesitation.

Oggwyn Trench
20-03-2011, 21:57
If you know the names of the outskirts, please go ahead and create them - I really only know the town centre, hence my hesitation.

If your not sure , just click on Map and pan out a bit , an area name shouldnt be to far away .

Oggwyn Trench
20-03-2011, 22:01
I think i have finished Herefordshire and Worcestershire now , anything rather than watch bloody dancing on ice and duran duran:eek::D

Quinno
21-03-2011, 14:03
OK, just done Reading. Split into Reading Central, East, West and University (slightly contentious maybe, but useful - all University pubs also have a proper geographical area as well).

No North - that's Caversham :)

The only other large place I know well enough to make a stab at is Bristol, but others already seem to be on top of that one!

Al 10000
21-03-2011, 15:17
I've done this in Leek by creating a Leek Town Centre area, and the same in Barrow in Furness, but I've limited myself to those pubs that are fairly central - there are some on the outskirts that don't seem to have defined areas with names, so I've just left them out. A "Leek Outskirts" would be an option, but is probably getting too complicated and not terribly useful, as no one is likely to want to visit all the pubs in the N, E, S and W outskirts in one go.

If you look at the pubs that i did in Leek these were all done in one day so you can see that this is a fairly small town so i would put all the pubs under that towns name.

I also noticed that you put the Ball Haye tavern in an area called Ball haye this pub is'nt that far from the town centre so i would also put this under the town banner.

If i lived in Leek or any other town i would say i lived in that town if it was in the middle or on the edge of town.

Blackthorn
21-03-2011, 16:19
The only other large place I know well enough to make a stab at is Bristol, but others already seem to be on top of that one!

I'm trying to do that! Most of the way through I think, although someone else has done many of the outlying areas.

NickDavies
21-03-2011, 17:02
I am not sure the context is obvious if you are not familiar with the site, I think the Dorking area does need some sort of qualifier in the name to separate it from the Dorking Postal district page, otherwise we have 2 Dorking pages.

Hmm yes I see what you mean, I assumed that say "Dorking postal district" was labelled such in the database and one would come under the other. But if I'd been paying attention here at the back I would have realised it doesn't work like that. Won't do it again!

Conrad
21-03-2011, 17:44
Conrad,

I've just noticed that if I look at "My Contributions" it tells me how many pubs I've contributed to including the ones I've amended the Coverage for. However there isn't any coloured block next to the pub name to show what the contribution was.

i.e it says RobCamra has conributed no photo's, hasn't amended the map point, hasn't reviewed etc. which looks a little strange.

Is this going to be added in a later release, or is it just a glitch? :cheers:
Ok, I have just put a hack in to stop them being displayed. It is not ideal, but seems to be working.

Strongers
21-03-2011, 23:32
I'm having a little trouble naming somewhere as a 'town' or 'central' in Greater London just because they conflict with the postal code. Pinner, for instance, isn't a town or village or ripe banana, it's Pinner. If it needs to be distinguished from the postal area I'd be more inclined to name the area 'Pinner Tube Station' as it makes more sense, but sounds a bit shyte as it is Pinner. Is it impossible to separate the postal district from the town without making up names?

Bristol City Central Rovers! :rolleyes:

Strongers
22-03-2011, 11:53
I was wondering what others thought about the location of this pub (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/10768/). It's not in Eastbourne Town, Old Town or Hampden Park. I was thinking about making an area called District General Hospital, but I'm not so sure.

NickDavies
22-03-2011, 12:19
I was wondering what others thought about the location of this pub (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/10768/). It's not in Eastbourne Town, Old Town or Hampden Park. I was thinking about making an area called District General Hospital, but I'm not so sure.

It comes under Ratton ward - but only local knowledge would advise if anyone actually calls it that.

http://www.eastbourne.gov.uk/council/councillors/wards/

Conrad
22-03-2011, 12:53
Is it impossible to separate the postal district from the town without making up names?
I could just delete all the pubs in Pinner then there would be no need for allocation?

Alternatively I am still happy to just flatten the site and have all 60k+ listings as being on The Earth.

Strongers
22-03-2011, 13:07
I could just delete all the pubs in Pinner then there would be no need for allocation?

Alternatively I am still happy to just flatten the site and have all 60k+ listings as being on The Earth.

Maybe my post came across as being a little harsh, maybe a few emoticons wouldn't have gone amiss.

Strongers
22-03-2011, 13:09
It comes under Ratton ward - but only local knowledge would advise if anyone actually calls it that.

http://www.eastbourne.gov.uk/council/councillors/wards/

I think that Ratton is better than DG Hospital - Cheers!

Conrad
22-03-2011, 13:16
Maybe my post came across as being a little harsh, maybe a few emoticons wouldn't have gone amiss.
I think it was the explicit reference to Bristol that was more irritating, as a question to the community it was fine. As an expression of how the new system doesn't work it is a little wearing.

We are dealing with a run of complaints at the moment and as I am sure you can imagine/sympathise it gets tiring.

Strongers
22-03-2011, 13:28
I’d like to think of mine as more of a query than a complaint, but I get your point. I’ve twisted my brain up a few times trying to allocate areas to pubs and the problem ones always seem to be the last. It gets a little tedious doing them, but like some drug I cannot stop! Give it another week and I’ll have to book myself into therapy.

I also apologise for putting City and Rov*$% in the same sentence, it was late and I’d worn myself out staring at maps and drinking warm Guinness.

On a good note, I think that the changes and effort are well worth it and it is interesting seeing it all take shape.

NickDavies
22-03-2011, 15:08
If anyone wants council ward names you can find them here

http://www.election-maps.co.uk/index.jsp

a bit clunky but it does the trick

Strongers
22-03-2011, 22:19
I'm having trouble correcting the details of this pub (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/11043/). When I click on 'correct details' I get an error message saying something along the lines of 'connection with server interrupted, please try again later. I was wondering if it is a blip on the site or some gremlins have crawled into my computer. This error is displayed on some pubs, but others are fine.

Conrad
22-03-2011, 23:03
I'm having trouble correcting the details of this pub (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/11043/). When I click on 'correct details' I get an error message saying something along the lines of 'connection with server interrupted, please try again later. I was wondering if it is a blip on the site or some gremlins have crawled into my computer. This error is displayed on some pubs, but others are fine.
One for the, "Well you learn something new every day" quote. Definitely a bug, and one where I was looking at it thinking, why the hell is it doing that. Should now be working.

Thanks for that, I will just sit here shaking my head at stupid programmers.

Strongers
22-03-2011, 23:52
One for the, "Well you learn something new every day" quote. Definitely a bug, and one where I was looking at it thinking, why the hell is it doing that. Should now be working.

Thanks for that, I will just sit here shaking my head at stupid programmers.

Sorted - Cheers.

Farway
23-03-2011, 14:57
On the Postal Town page there was a link, or two, to other pub sites that had details / reviews of the local area, I am thinking specifically here of Portsmouth and the "pubs of Portsmouth" link, http://www.portsmouthpubs.org.uk/

It still exists on Southsea area, as does the Emsworth pub link

Has it fallen off the long page or just vanished into the ether, or is it just me?

Dave M
23-03-2011, 16:47
Has it fallen off the long page or just vanished into the ether, or is it just me?
Not just you.

You were quite right that up till yesterday there were indeed two links.

A very odd circumstance meant that any town links specifically on the Portsmouth page vanished. They are now back again.

Thanks for spotting that so quickly, made it much easier to figure out what had happened.

Farway
24-03-2011, 13:59
A bit of guidance please, is it possible to have two locations [coverage] for the same place within a Postal Town?

Specifically Portsmouth postal area,, has Old Portsmouth which is generally around the harbour mouth

This area is also known as Spice Island locally (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/13620/), and is touristy for guided walks and the like

My thinking is a tourist may search for Spice Island and would find the pub listing here, as would a search on Old Portsmouth

There are about 3 open & 2 closed pubs affected, could stretch it as far as the Cathedral to include a couple more open ones

SO, is it possible, or allowed, or will it completely foul the site up?

Strongers
24-03-2011, 14:09
I think that a pub can have any amount of places attached to it. I've done a few where they overlap areas.

Quinno
24-03-2011, 14:12
A bit of guidance please, is it possible to have two locations [coverage] for the same place within a Postal Town?

SO, is it possible, or allowed, or will it completely foul the site up?


Indeed you can I have done it for Reading - http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/towns/reading/berkshire/ eg Nags Head :)

Strongers
24-03-2011, 14:13
Conrad/Dave,

Would it be possible to change a couple of location names that I have done?

Twickenham should be Twickenham Town (This was done before I knew what I was doing)
East Cowes should be East Cowes Town (Made the mistake today as I didn't realise that East Cowes was a postal town)

Cheers

S

Farway
24-03-2011, 14:21
Indeed you can I have done it for Reading - http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/towns/reading/berkshire/ eg Nags Head :)

Thank you, off to do the job now

Dave M
24-03-2011, 17:20
Thanks to Strongers and Quinno for getting in there and confirming that was ok.

From the looks of it the example Farway has given is a good use of a pub being in multiple areas, if there is a chance that tourists could be trying to find it in two named areas it is great that we are able to list it in both.


Twickenham should be Twickenham Town (This was done before I knew what I was doing)
East Cowes should be East Cowes Town (Made the mistake today as I didn't realise that East Cowes was a postal town)

Yeah no problem, both sorted now.

oldboots
24-03-2011, 19:38
Thanks to Strongers and Quinno for getting in there and confirming that was ok.

From the looks of it the example Farway has given is a good use of a pub being in multiple areas, if there is a chance that tourists could be trying to find it in two named areas it is great that we are able to list it in both.


That's good as I've put in an area called Nidderdale containing all the pubs in the touristy bit. I'll do the same for Wensleydale and Swaledale, and maybe the Moors. The search will return all the pubs in an area if you type in its name so that should be quite useful (if the areas are set up).

ROBCamra
24-03-2011, 20:20
ROBCamra is busily taking on the task of the whole of Greater Manchester (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/counties/greater-manchester/). :eek:


Well I think that's GM done now, unless there's an odd one hiding somewhere.

Also done Durham & Halifax plus quite a lot of Newcastle & Liverpool.

Time for a beer. :cheers:

ROBCamra
25-03-2011, 12:09
Conrad/Dave,

Would it be possible to change a couple of location names that I have done?

Twickenham should be Twickenham Town (This was done before I knew what I was doing)
East Cowes should be East Cowes Town (Made the mistake today as I didn't realise that East Cowes was a postal town)

Cheers

S

Conrad/Dave,

Could you please change Wallsend to Wallsend Central. I didn't realise it was a postal town until too late either. :o

Strongers
25-03-2011, 14:19
Conrad/Dave,

Could you please change Wallsend to Wallsend Central. I didn't realise it was a postal town until too late either. :o

Glad it's not just me.

Another one that I did before being clear on the rules was Brentford which should be 'Brentford Town'. Hopefully I have picked them all up now!

Dave M
25-03-2011, 20:22
Conrad/Dave,

Could you please change Wallsend to Wallsend Central. I didn't realise it was a postal town until too late either. :o
Yeah, that has been sorted out now.

ROBCamra
28-03-2011, 09:13
Just noticed that some of the pubs I've put into an area in Newcastle also have a note on the email saying associated with e.g East Wallhouses area by Dave M.

This means that the address now has the East Wallhouses name in it twice. e.g. this one

http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/36552/

and this one

http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/36618/

and slightly differently, this one

http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/36595/

Is there a glitch somewhere?

Conrad
28-03-2011, 19:33
Glitch is probably the most appropriate word.

Where you include it as an association it chucks the place name onto the address and marks the town as a postal town. In the cases you mention they had the area name as part of the address, generally as part of the street name. It is the fragility of address systems sadly.

Thanks for that.

Strongers
28-03-2011, 22:45
Glad it's not just me.

Another one that I did before being clear on the rules was Brentford which should be 'Brentford Town'. Hopefully I have picked them all up now!

Sorry Dave/Conrad - I probably shouldn't have put in a change request half way through a sentence. I was thinking about 'Brentford the Home of the Bees', but I think that ‘Brentford Town’ is more suitable on this occasion.

PS: I've put the four pubs on each corner of the ground under 'Griffin Park' as well as 'Brentford' as this seems to be our claim to fame!

Conrad
29-03-2011, 14:11
Do you mean this Brentford (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/areas/brentford/greater-london/)?

If so it is in W4, so I am happy for it to stay Brentford, it is only where the name is the same as the postal town so you end up with something along the breadcrumb that reads:
Home > England > Greater London > Brentford > Brentford
Whereas currently it reads:
Home > England > Greater London > W4 > Brentford

Hopefully that clears it up.

Edit: Equally if you are telling me that it is better described as Brentford Town I can do that.

Strongers
29-03-2011, 19:19
Do you mean this Brentford (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/areas/brentford/greater-london/)?

If so it is in W4, so I am happy for it to stay Brentford, it is only where the name is the same as the postal town so you end up with something along the breadcrumb that reads:
Home > England > Greater London > Brentford > Brentford
Whereas currently it reads:
Home > England > Greater London > W4 > Brentford

Hopefully that clears it up.

Edit: Equally if you are telling me that it is better described as Brentford Town I can do that.

I think we have an example here of why the postal name needs to be different as I think I have caused a bit of a problem.
Brentford is TW8 (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/towns/brentford/greater-london/) and the pub That I first added to Brentford was on the border of Brentford with a W4 (Chiswick) postcode (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/areas/brentford/greater-london/).

I hope that this is clear and doesn't take much clearing up.

PS this is Rowans that (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/68488/) overlaps into Brentford.

Conrad
30-03-2011, 13:23
Hopefully all now fixed. Thankfully part of why these take so long to release at the moment is we are improving the management tools and things are a lot easier to fix on this.

Interestingly this one demonstrates something that may start appearing in the future. Before I fixed it the system believed that Brentford Town was part of W4 (and just happened to have some pubs from Brentford Postal District in it), I have now set it so that Brentford Town is part of Brentford as well.

Thanks for that, let me know if it still looks wrong - Brentford Town (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/areas/brentford-town/greater-london/).

Al 10000
30-03-2011, 16:17
Hi Conrad & Dave,

Would you mind changing Salisbury Town area to Salisbury central and all the pubs in this area,i made a mistake adding Town to the Salisbury list.

Thanks Alan

dasusara
14-04-2011, 07:58
Conrad

Could you please change Toll Cross in Edinburgh to Tollcross. Also thanks to ROBCamra for his tiding up of Edinburgh.

Ta

ROBCamra
14-04-2011, 08:19
Conrad

Could you please change Toll Cross in Edinburgh to Tollcross. Also thanks to ROBCamra for his tiding up of Edinburgh.

Ta

You're perfectly correct. I had a bit of a mind storm there.

I use to live in Dean Village in Edinburgh and spent quite a lot of time up around Tollcross especially in Cloisters and still got it wrong. :o

Conrad
14-04-2011, 10:40
Conrad

Could you please change Toll Cross in Edinburgh to Tollcross. Also thanks to ROBCamra for his tiding up of Edinburgh.

Ta
Now corrected, thanks for that.

Al 10000
20-04-2011, 17:37
Hi Conrad,

I was going to set the locations for the Ely postal district and then realised that Ely is a city,this city only has a poulation of just over 15000 and i think setting the area for Ely as City centre or Ely City looks daft,i was going to call it Ely Town but i have been proved wrong in the past calling cities towns.

What are yours and Daves thoughts on this i will go with the area you both think is best.

:cheers: Alan

Strongers
20-04-2011, 19:37
Hi Conrad,

I was going to set the locations for the Ely postal district and then realised that Ely is a city,this city only has a poulation of just over 15000 and i think setting the area for Ely as City centre or Ely City looks daft,i was going to call it Ely Town but i have been proved wrong in the past calling cities towns.

What are yours and Daves thoughts on this i will go with the area you both think is best.

:cheers: Alan

I would call it a city if it is one. It may seem sound strange, but not as much as Welwyn Garden City Town!

Conrad
21-04-2011, 10:48
I have no opinion and am not dealing with these to be honest.

I think Dave is fairly busy at the moment, but will presumably correct it if he disagrees.

Rex_Rattus
22-04-2011, 20:42
It looks like you can do what you think is right Alan. If you want another opinion here is mine: I tend to agree with Strongers - if it's a town and it needs a centre then it's a Town Centre, but if it's a City and it needs a centre then it's a City Centre. I don't think the population of the place in question is relevant. But that's just my opinion, and no doubt if anyone disagrees they will say so.

sheffield hatter
22-04-2011, 21:54
...if it's a town and it needs a centre then it's a Town Centre, but if it's a City and it needs a centre then it's a City Centre. I don't think the population of the place in question is relevant.

For what it's worth, I think if the place is small enough to have no suburbs, there's no need for the word "centre". If all the pubs in Ely are within a reasonable walk of the railway station, say, I'd just call it Ely City.

Rex_Rattus
22-04-2011, 23:06
For what it's worth, I think if the place is small enough to have no suburbs, there's no need for the word "centre". If all the pubs in Ely are within a reasonable walk of the railway station, say, I'd just call it Ely City.

Or in that case maybe just "Ely" would do.

sheffield hatter
23-04-2011, 09:33
Or in that case maybe just "Ely" would do.

No, I think Conrad has already said that this causes confusion between the postal town and the area: they have to have different names to distinguish them.

Rex_Rattus
23-04-2011, 10:37
Yes, of course, that's different if it's in a "Postal Town" with the same name.

Farway
28-04-2011, 14:51
There may be the first minor disagreement over location, between me & Robcamra, regarding Southsea Central (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/areas/southsea-central/hampshire/)

I have PMd Rob and await his response, basically my objection is to the spread of Southsea Central to include the Albert / Victoria road area


IMO Southsea Central is a very tightly defined area, around Osborne Palmerston cross Roads, I would even query the inclusion of the Jolly Sailor (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/13996/)

Southsea Postal is a sprawling area, much of it suburban, and the Albert / Victoria road area is a fair walk from the what I would term Southsea Central, which is also where buses from Portsmouth Central [Landport] stop.

The Albert Road area is unique, but unfortunately does not have a geographical area / name, I am therefore going to suggest, via the forums, that your designations for the Albert Road area pubs are removed and the Albert Road area is just left as Southsea

ROBCamra
30-04-2011, 08:51
There may be the first minor disagreement over location, between me & Robcamra, regarding Southsea Central (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/areas/southsea-central/hampshire/)

I have PMd Rob and await his response, basically my objection is to the spread of Southsea Central to include the Albert / Victoria road area


IMO Southsea Central is a very tightly defined area, around Osborne Palmerston cross Roads, I would even query the inclusion of the Jolly Sailor (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/13996/)

Southsea Postal is a sprawling area, much of it suburban, and the Albert / Victoria road area is a fair walk from the what I would term Southsea Central, which is also where buses from Portsmouth Central [Landport] stop.

The Albert Road area is unique, but unfortunately does not have a geographical area / name, I am therefore going to suggest, via the forums, that your designations for the Albert Road area pubs are removed and the Albert Road area is just left as Southsea

I've no axe to grind with where things are put in Southsea and I suspect you know the area better than me Farway as it's about 15 years since I was last there. :)

I don't think you can just have Southsea though under the new system as that's the postal town.

I would have thought that Southsea East/West/North may be better though? :cheers:

Farway
30-04-2011, 14:48
I've no axe to grind with where things are put in Southsea and I suspect you know the area better than me Farway as it's about 15 years since I was last there. :)

I don't think you can just have Southsea though under the new system as that's the postal town.

I would have thought that Southsea East/West/North may be better though? :cheers:

Good idea, I will get on with it in the next few days [daze?]

Conrad
01-05-2011, 17:27
Thanks you two for dealing with it.

ROB, we are getting hassled through feedback by someone swearing blind that Park Wood, Bradford (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/areas/park-wood/west-yorkshire/) is just a Google apparition and we need to sort it out NOW. I am sure you can imagine how much I care (lets see, how do I delete all the pubs in Bradford from the system again :whistle: ). Was just wondering if you did get it off Google, or had actually recognised the area?

Regardless they can do the correction themselves.

oldboots
01-05-2011, 20:54
Knowing your hatred of geography I shouldn't say this ................but it looks like Park Wood is just something thought up by Google. Her Majesty's Ordnance Survey goes with "Laisterdyke", "Bradford Moor" or "Barkerend" for that rough area, and I mean rough in both senses of the word.

Were you scared by a man with leather patches on his "sports Jacket" elbows at a young age?:D

ROBCamra
02-05-2011, 09:39
Knowing your hatred of geography I shouldn't say this ................but it looks like Park Wood is just something thought up by Google. Her Majesty's Ordnance Survey goes with "Laisterdyke", "Bradford Moor" or "Barkerend" for that rough area, and I mean rough in both senses of the word.

Were you scared by a man with leather patches on his "sports Jacket" elbows at a young age?:D

Park Wood is on my old (circa 1983) A - Z, but Laisterdyke is just as close. I might change it if I can be arsed. ;)

Conrad
02-05-2011, 10:54
Were you scared by a man with leather patches on his "sports Jacket" elbows at a young age?:D
:confused:

If you are referring to the hatred of areas, then no. It is just bemusing to me how animated people become about the areas. As I have said, this site is about pubs not areas, so I rapidly lost my sense of humour about being told that a pub is in the wrong place, such a wrong place that you found the bl**dy thing to tell me it was in the wrong place :rolleyes:. When you can't find the listing it is an issue, when you have found the listing then telling me it is in the wrong place has a little less weight.

Also the whole tone is so frequently one of personal slight (which is not so funny when all we are trying to do is a pub site).

Anyway, the facility is there for others to do it now and one day hopefully we will stop getting these complaints.


Park Wood is on my old (circa 1983) A - Z, but Laisterdyke is just as close. I might change it if I can be arsed. ;)
Thanks ROB, I shouldn't worry hopefully the complainer will correct it, but it may help Dave when he does the approvals.

ROBCamra
09-05-2011, 14:22
Conrad, is there any easy way to extend the Arealess pubs button to look at whole counties?

I'm happy to keep the areas I've contributed to up to date when new pubs are listed etc but it would be a lot easier if I could click on e.g. Greater Manchester rather than all the sub postal towns.

I know you hate areas but as this is a bit of coding I thought I might get away with it. :whistle:

Conrad
09-05-2011, 14:28
I hate the minutiae of areas, the technical bit is perfectly fair game.

To answer your question I am not sure. Technically it is perfectly feasible, probably not too difficult, I am just not sure how hard a hit it will cause on the system. Let me give it some though and reply when I have a better idea.

Conrad
10-05-2011, 11:49
I have been thinking about this some more.

I sadly just don't see where it conveniently fits in the system. The other thing is that the real solution is to make the add pubs better I think. So unless this becomes urgent I will probably leave it alone.

ROBCamra
10-05-2011, 12:05
I have been thinking about this some more.

I sadly just don't see where it conveniently fits in the system. The other thing is that the real solution is to make the add pubs better I think. So unless this becomes urgent I will probably leave it alone.

No problem.

Just wondering though. Is it possible to do it as a monthly report like Dave's stats?

So that it shows arealess pubs by County/Postal Town?

That would also show which areas still need addressing at the moment.

Conrad
10-05-2011, 12:09
It would be possible, only real issue is format. Couldn't really publish it on the forums (it would be huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge), it may be possible to do it as a web page.

Mind you if I was going to do it as a web page I could probably just make it an active web page separate from the site.

Once again, let me think it over :), it may actually be simple to do something really spartan and create a link from the forum.

ROBCamra
08-06-2011, 20:13
I've no axe to grind with where things are put in Southsea and I suspect you know the area better than me Farway as it's about 15 years since I was last there. :)

I don't think you can just have Southsea though under the new system as that's the postal town.

I would have thought that Southsea East/West/North may be better though? :cheers:

Dave,

You've recently rejected a few of my area corrections with things like Barnsley/Leicester etc North/South etc area does not exist.

I thought we'd agreed earlier in this thread that North/South/East/West was acceptable.

My view for what it's worth is that in Barnsley for example there is a ring road pretty much around the town centre. Anything within the ring road I've considered to be in Barnsley Central. If they're outside the ring road and yet not in a specific named area I've used East/West/South/North.

Using Central when they're not really looks a bit confusing to me.

Could you clarify your position on these please?

Cheers. :cheers:

Old Blue
09-06-2011, 07:34
Dave

Same question from me, really. In some towns I've been thinking it's probably most useful to the user to have a central area with, say, 30ish pubs that really are in the centre, and then surrounding areas labelled N, S, E and/or W where there are groups of pubs you could visit depending on which direction you went in. To avoid either having a huge number of pubs in one 'central' area, or a multiplicity of differently named areas representing estates with only about one pub in each, either of which would seem to defeat the object of the areas display. That said, I can see why you've overridden some of mine where on reflection I was probably subdividing a bit further than was necessary.

The other advantage of doing it this way seems to be that when you look at the town display you can see which areas are towards the middle of town as they each begin with the town name, as opposed to bits further out or separate towns or villages that are called something completely different.

OB

Conrad
09-06-2011, 08:06
.... either of which would seem to defeat the object of the areas display.
What is the object of the areas display?

Edit: For me they are there to be accurate, if there is only one pub in an estate, then it is fine to put it in that area. If there are 100's of pubs in a central area, then that is fine, areas are not an attempt to replace the postcode system and have exactly 30 pubs in each area. They should exist to serve those who are looking to find a pub in a named area for whatever reason and are searching for that, also they should make up for the weaknesses in the Postal Town naming convention (where towns can exist in Postal towns) - if you are looking to find localities of pubs there is always the maps.

So if you think that you would go to Google and look for a pub in North Barnsley, then having a Barnsley North area makes sense. That is just my interpretation though.

I actually shouldn't have posted on this thread and will now leave it be.

gillhalfpint
09-06-2011, 11:10
I am glad that around 99% of the time I want to find a pub, I just enter the pub name in the search box, unless it is something like Red Lion. Then I use the town and normally have no problem finding the pub. Areas have never been something I have looked into in detail.

Conrad
09-06-2011, 18:57
No problem.

Just wondering though. Is it possible to do it as a monthly report like Dave's stats?

So that it shows arealess pubs by County/Postal Town?

That would also show which areas still need addressing at the moment.
Just realised that I never officially replied to this.

We honestly haven't got the time for it at the moment. On top of the time it would take to come up with the report there is the fact that we would then end up pouring over obscure areas that people came up with, so it will be left for now.

Sorry about that.

Old Blue
10-06-2011, 08:26
What is the object of the areas display?

Edit: For me they are there to be accurate, if there is only one pub in an estate, then it is fine to put it in that area. If there are 100's of pubs in a central area, then that is fine, areas are not an attempt to replace the postcode system and have exactly 30 pubs in each area. They should exist to serve those who are looking to find a pub in a named area for whatever reason and are searching for that, also they should make up for the weaknesses in the Postal Town naming convention (where towns can exist in Postal towns) - if you are looking to find localities of pubs there is always the maps.

So if you think that you would go to Google and look for a pub in North Barnsley, then having a Barnsley North area makes sense. That is just my interpretation though.

I actually shouldn't have posted on this thread and will now leave it be.

I think ideally the object ought to be to assist the site user as best it can in relation to any of the things the user might want to use the site to do. Primarily, to help the user find a pub he is looking for, or a pub in an area he is looking at. Also perhaps to help a user to understand the pub geography of an area he is going to but is not intimate with, for the purposes of planning visits, crawls etc. My point was not that there ought to be a 'standard' way of arranging areas for different towns, or that there is any case for losing accuracy in favour of anything else, simply that there may be different ways of doing it for any town, I think we all want to get the site looking as good as it can, and it would be useful to make sure we're not working against each other in this respect.

Although I can see the areas display may not be of much use to those PuG stalwarts who might already be intimate with the pub geography of places they may go to, or seek advice in the forum if not, I do find it useful myself. I think that being able to look at a page of pubs in an area one may be going to, to look at different pages for different localities nearby, and to print these off if desired, are features whereby this site is potentially a lot more user-friendly than others in ways that are likely to be appreciated by less well established users, and that they are worth doing as best we can for that reason.

Conrad
10-06-2011, 10:27
I am not sure how any of what you said has anything to do with the compass points. They are being used for a catch all where the area is not known, and that is why they are being rejected.

One of the ones that left me laughing when I heard about it The New Inn (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/113/) was placed into West Bath (Bath West). I lived in Bath for many years, it is a new one to hear about an East or West Bath on me. Bath can be subdivided into North and South based on the river, or BA1 and BA2 if you are so inclined. Given the existence of a Bath Weston (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/areas/weston/somerset/) and Batheaston (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/areas/batheaston/somerset/) the concept of making up these compass points is just plain confusing and ridiculous. All of which is a bit of a red herring as Monmouth Street is 2 minutes walk from the main shopping Street and between the largest City Centre car park and the shops.

If the areas exist all well and good, but we are at the point where the compass points are being used as a lazy trap for lack of local knowledge. And in the case of the example I gave is actually creating something disingenuous.

Dave M
10-06-2011, 14:46
I'm still working from the principle of areas in the middle of a city where they are not in any named district should have the Central suffix. So if it is just Barnsley then call it Barnsley Central.

Where I've been seeing compass points suggested that I think are just there as a stop gap for pubs not in the shopping centre or not within the ring road then I have generally merged them into the central area. After all it made no sense to me to have an area like Barnsley West that had a number of pubs that are still in Barnsley (Gawber district) yet are west of Barnsley West.

Where I've felt there might be a name for an area I've rejected them so that someone with good local knowledge can hopefully fill us in, which is what I felt about the Leicester ones.

As to Farways issues with the the naming of Southsea Central, my take would be that if Southsea Central has a specific meaning then we should call it Southsea Town. Then anything that is just Southsea is put into Southsea Town.

Farway
10-06-2011, 14:53
If the areas exist all well and good, but we are at the point where the compass points are being used as a lazy trap for lack of local knowledge. And in the case of the example I gave is actually creating something disingenuous.

Oh how to frame this reply without annoying someone :o

In the case of good local knowledge, and where an area does not have a geographic name, then surely compass points would help a new visitor to the area?

I site Southsea, I have local knowledge, there are no such places a Southsea Central, or East, West or North, and nor, in the main, do the areas of the Postal district have local names, except meaningless ones to non residents, like Somerstown [roughly North area]

My point is sometimes it is not a lazy trap, but can be useful tool for visitors not familiar with area

I do take take the point about being used as a lazy trap for lack of local knowledge And I think some additions in my local area are incorrect but are submitted by members who are trying to help, it is awkward to correct these without possibly causing offence, especially as I have not the time at present to do it myself

Conrad
10-06-2011, 15:09
The only issue I have with what you said Farway is that we can end up creating areas that are fictional representations, it is just a bit of box ticking for self gratification, I don't see it helping anyone else (definite IMHO there). I don't see the point of having an area that wouldn't be searched for on Google. If anyone is looking for pubs in the East of a city, pull up the map and drag it right.

Anyway, Dave has given the official answer, and given my obvious prejudices I should probably give up.

ROBCamra
10-06-2011, 15:15
I'm still working from the principle of areas in the middle of a city where they are not in any named district should have the Central suffix. So if it is just Barnsley then call it Barnsley Central.

Where I've been seeing compass points suggested that I think are just there as a stop gap for pubs not in the shopping centre or not within the ring road then I have generally merged them into the central area. After all it made no sense to me to have an area like Barnsley West that had a number of pubs that are still in Barnsley (Gawber district) yet are west of Barnsley West.

Where I've felt there might be a name for an area I've rejected them so that someone with good local knowledge can hopefully fill us in, which is what I felt about the Leicester ones.

As to Farways issues with the the naming of Southsea Central, my take would be that if Southsea Central has a specific meaning then we should call it Southsea Town. Then anything that is just Southsea is put into Southsea Town.

Thanks for the clarification Dave.

I do have local knowledge of Barnsley. I had the good fortune to spend a few days in a Portakabin on a car park a couple of minutes from the shopping centre. :p

This is where Barnsley YOT (Youth Offending Team) used to be based. :eek:

Afer some digging, and help from a 1991 A - Z. I have come to the conclusion that the Barnsley West pubs that are not as far west as Gawber, should be in Old Town. At least they were in 1991. :p So that's where I've now put them.

Farway, I can't comment for anyone else, but if someone with better local knowledge than me thinks I've got some areas wrong then please change them. I've visited loads of places with my work over the last 20+ years and spent lots of time mooching around crap towns (Southsea excepted of course:o) whilst staying in hotels. But current local knowledge overrides a 2 week visit with a GBG and an A - Z 10 years ago. :D

Strongers
11-06-2011, 00:20
I'd also like to add that I have no problem with anyone changing what I've done - Unless I'm right and then I'll argue the toss!

I'll also add that a pub can have more than one area allocated to it so if it is in the middle of two places add both off them to it. If someone with better knowledge of the area comes along in a couple of years and wants to change it they can add the correct local name.

Al 10000
11-06-2011, 15:00
Hi Conrad, Dave & Rob,

Regarding using compass points for locating pubs,

I started using this to seperate pubs in a city from the pubs that were in the conurbation but not within the city limits,this then gave a good indication of what pubs were in said city i have to admit that this was done in some ways for my own reasons but i also think a conequence of this has made the pubs main page look better.

The reason i said that is if anyone is visiting a new city and there are lots of pubs in different areas in that city then if you look at say Nottingham North you will see all the pubs in this area and i think this will help visitors or pub crawlers when looking at the cities main page.

As for Leicester,

I know this city very well and by the mid 80s had visited over 180 pubs there, but there were some pubs that were in a sort on no mans land these were to the north of the city centre and i have visited all these pubs but still dont know what area they are in,i dont know who tried to set their areas but would have a good guess that Rob had a go at it.

I think that Rob has done a great job in trying to sort the areas out, as i have also tried to do and all we are trying to do is make the site look better for our own and others enjoyment.

I dont think putting a pub in a compass point is a cop out, it is just trying to to get the Pubs Galore site looking as good as possible, i know we all make mistakes and if there are any bad ones that i have made i would have no problem if some body altered it.

If i did start this compass point thing then i do apologise but in most cases i think it does make the site look better.

Cheers Alan

Galore Admin
08-02-2012, 07:17
I have just moved this thread into Requests so that it is still accessible. It is handy for me to point at as an explanation of areas (if such a thing is possible).

Conrad

ROBCamra
30-03-2013, 10:32
Bump.

Please correct me if I'm wrong and I'm sure you will. :p

My conclusion after re-reading this thread is that areas with compass points are fine until superceded by local knowledge which can allocate them to their correctly named area.

Hence East Manchester is fine until a pub is added to e.g. Openshaw when the East Manchester bit becomes redundant and can be removed.

This is the premis that I'm working on when removing pubs from compass points when I've added them to a known, named area.

This is a long thread, but worth reading as it took us quite some time to get a concensus and not all agreed even then of course.

Al 10000
30-03-2013, 19:15
Bump.

Please correct me if I'm wrong and I'm sure you will. :p

My conclusion after re-reading this thread is that areas with compass points are fine until superceded by local knowledge which can allocate them to their correctly named area.

Hence East Manchester is fine until a pub is added to e.g. Openshaw when the East Manchester bit becomes redundant and can be removed.

This is the premis that I'm working on when removing pubs from compass points when I've added them to a known, named area

All of the Manchester pubs were already in their correct areas IE Openshaw or Gorton when i added them to East Manchester so you are not putting them into the correct areas has they were already there and all of the pubs i added to Manchester which was quite a few i always put them into their correct area before adding them to either East,North or South Nanchester.

ROBCamra
30-03-2013, 19:36
All of the Manchester pubs were already in their correct areas

Yes indeed, I spent weeks putting most of Greater Manchester in their correct areas.

AlanH
30-03-2013, 23:19
Yes indeed, I spent weeks putting most of Greater Manchester in their correct areas.

So what is wrong with having BOTH correct areas and compass points. As Sheffield Hatter said, use the compass points if you find them useful but ignore them if you dont!
In some towns I would find them very useful to get a general view of the area as there are so many areas with 1 or 2 pubs in it is hard to get a general view.
As for looking at PuG maps, it is OK if your trip was planned ahead, but this is not always the case and if you dont have an i-phone or carry a lap top, you don't have access to these maps.
So lets have a sensible compromise and allow both but ignore them if you wish.

Mobyduck
31-03-2013, 08:34
So what is wrong with having BOTH correct areas and compass points. As Sheffield Hatter said, use the compass points if you find them useful but ignore them if you dont!
In some towns I would find them very useful to get a general view of the area as there are so many areas with 1 or 2 pubs in it is hard to get a general view.
As for looking at PuG maps, it is OK if your trip was planned ahead, but this is not always the case and if you dont have an i-phone or carry a lap top, you don't have access to these maps.
So lets have a sensible compromise and allow both but ignore them if you wish.
Sounds totally reasonable to me.