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Soup Dragon
04-11-2009, 16:30
Hi All

Here is one for you. Do you, as the worthy panel, believe that night clubs should be included on PG? Do you believe that clubs, as in things like Bloxwich & Leamore Working Mens' Club be included, as you have to pay a token day membership fee?

It is my belief that neither should, though a pub that turns into a night club can be included and a pub that is free to go in, even though it may be in a paying museum's grounds (eg Bottle & Glass, Black Country Museum) can also be included

What are your thoughts?

Farway
04-11-2009, 16:47
I do not think anywhere that you have to pay to gain entry should be included, including entrance fee to museum or gardens

If you can just walk in off the street & buy an alcoholic drink then in it goes, rest leave out

Otherwise it may annoy some innocent folk expecting to have a pint to find they have to pay, say, 7.50 to gain entrance to Milestones Museum at Basingstoke in order to have a pint in the Edwardian style pub inside

http://www3.hants.gov.uk/milestones

Actually been in the pub, beer OK, good for those who like pubs without twigs :p

Soup Dragon
04-11-2009, 16:51
good for those who like pubs without twigs :p

I whinged in one pub about the twigs, only to be told the broom had been left out:muppet:

Conrad
04-11-2009, 16:57
This has come up a few times, the other one 2 categories that popularly slip by are hotels and cafes.

What interests me more, is why people are adding some of these stretched definitions of pubs. If they have good reason it is worth knowing why as it may be that the site should be broadened in some ways. I have this worried feeling that someone may suggest we have icons to suggest what type of pub/cafe/nightclub/hotel/museum it is ;).

It was previously touched on by Hopwas and FILO in a Holiday Inn thread (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?t=227).

oldboots
04-11-2009, 17:19
personally I detest places that pretend to be pubs but are really restaurants, clubs or residents only hotel bars. So on that basis my definition of a "pub" is a business that would

sell draught beer (keg or cask)
not have a charge for entry (except maybe Christmas/NewYears),
not restrict entry on the basis of membership, style, looks, etc,
not require the purchase of food in order to purchase drink,

arwkrite
05-11-2009, 06:30
I would go with Faraway and Old boots . In my walks around Hereford I was surprised by the number of pubs that now open at 5pm + and are obviously aiming themselves at the club crowd. Having spent lots of time in Holiday Inns, Travelodges etc my opinion is a bar is better than no bar. Apart from the poor choice of beer, normally a smooth flow, and over chilled lager they do the job for a thirsty traveller bearing in mind you normally arrive late and these places are stuck out on a trading estate somewhere in the boonies.
Hotel bars with free public entry have been part of pub scene before the days of the coaching inns.It gave the locals a chance to interact and rip off the traveller with little chance of any come back.I have known some good ones over the years.
I would never think of entering a social club whether you pay or not.The places are so cliquey I would be afraid of sitting in someones seat or upsetting somebody's cousin 14 times removed.

While I am working upto an early morning rant I 'd like to get this of my chest. More pubs are charging for parking in an effort to stop commuter parking, fair enough. However to redeem your ticket you have to order something to eat. Your drinks bill is not good enough. On journeys we often have to stop and use the facilities and so have a couple of coffees or a half of beer.Its only a short stop but it bugs me having to pay parking to buy their coffee....rant over.

PaulOfHorsham
05-11-2009, 10:08
some of these stretched definitions of pubs

I'm no expert on Kingston & Birmingham and we don't have a Carluccio's in Horsham; we do, however, have a Strada and that's an Italian restaurant! A quick Google indicates that you have, in recent days had a couple of restaurants added!

While some pubs are clearly pubs and there is plenty of personal interpretation in places, some restaurants are clearly not pubs by any definition!

Personally, I would have no problem with companion websites for hotels, nightclubs and the rest, with links to & fro, the inclusion of places that are clearly not pubs by any definition will, I feel, lead to a loss of business here as people will not feel they can trust the information, or there's just too much shown in an area for them to take in.

hopwas
05-11-2009, 10:47
I do not think anywhere that you have to pay to gain entry should be included, including entrance fee to museum or gardens

If you can just walk in off the street & buy an alcoholic drink then in it goes, rest leave out

Otherwise it may annoy some innocent folk expecting to have a pint to find they have to pay, say, 7.50 to gain entrance to Milestones Museum at Basingstoke in order to have a pint in the Edwardian style pub inside

http://www3.hants.gov.uk/milestones

Actually been in the pub, beer OK, good for those who like pubs without twigs :p

There is working pub inside Black County Museum.. Bottle and Glass Inn.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3472/3775280652_d3f5ba24e8.jpg

However in order to drink there, you have to pay around 12 to get in museum!

There is also working pubs in Coalbrooke museum and Bass Museum in Burton. Both requires admission fee :mad:

Soup Dragon
05-11-2009, 12:46
Some good points have been raised.

Maybe if Conrad (:muppet:) gets a PG research fund together, I could go and check every one out for :glass: and :twigs:

Seriously, it shows how difficult it can be - Ed's place is Kilvert's 'Hotel', yet it is as good a 'pub' as you will find - i used to avoid hotels as i didnt think of them as pubs, just for the residents. Again, i associate a 'bar' with vodka and lager, but many do have real ale in now. The Freemasons - a pub by me has closed and is about to re-open, refurbed as 'Masons Bar and Restuarant' - the boundaries of what is a restaurant, bar, hotel et al have become so blurred these days. Even the Plum Pudding in Armitage still has 5% of its space given over for drinkers! I think we just have to cut some slack at the end of the day

Conrad
05-11-2009, 13:03
I'm no expert on Kingston & Birmingham and we don't have a Carluccio's in Horsham; we do, however, have a Strada and that's an Italian restaurant! A quick Google indicates that you have, in recent days had a couple of restaurants added!
Strada (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/67792/) was added by Wynne Route (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/userinfo.php?name=First+King) who has contributed to 1164 pubs in the system (more than 1%), if you take a close look at the picture the awning says Bar on it, which is why we approved it. Carluccios (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/67801/) was added by Graham Mason (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/userinfo.php?name=Perry) who has contributed to 3491 pubs on the site (more than 5%) and on inspecting the chains web site there was some implication that some of their restaurants had a bar you could drink at, which is why we approved that one.


Personally, I would have no problem with companion websites for hotels, nightclubs and the rest, with links to & fro, the inclusion of places that are clearly not pubs by any definition will, I feel, lead to a loss of business here as people will not feel they can trust the information, or there's just too much shown in an area for them to take in.
There is certainly the possiblility of a Restaurants Galore at some future point, and if we can think of a good hook we would clearly do it, if for no other reason than it would likely be a far bigger money spinner than pubs.:)

A couple of things come out of this post from my perspective. I mentioned above how we came to approve the 2 named, we do reject a number of pubs of 11527 pubs suggested we have rejected 681 (less than I thought actually). We do this by checking what we can, I do wonder who could police this though, as observed the 2 posters of these venues are some of the most prolific contributors to the site, from our perspective if we don't trust them, who do we trust to police the content.

As to losing the business, these are the people who are using the site, I think the threat to the business comes from people trying to scam the site, be it adding their DJ business, or libeling a pub they don't like.

Sorry Paul, not picking on you, it was just your post was the most precise and as such easiest to reply to :o.

As to Social clubs, I kind of think they should be included oddly, having a lot of x-military relatives (who doesn't) I would like it if the Royal Legion was listed on here, whilst it doesn't help our Real Ale members, it would help those veterans who are visiting a town and want to find a friendly place to drink.

And just realised that Soup Dragon has beat me to it.:confused:

hopwas
05-11-2009, 13:27
Conrad,

How about setting up another website dedicated to Bar/restaurants..

Something like Baragalore or resturantsagalore whatever you call it.. :rolleyes:

PaulOfHorsham
05-11-2009, 13:32
Don't worry, Conrad - not feeling picked on (that's the benefit of expressing your self eloquently:)).

I saw who'd added the venues, but I did think it odd. In one draft of my earlier post, I attempted to say something about personal interpretation of what constitutes a bar, pub or whatever came into play a little. Which is to say, I won't be adding Strada in Horsham, but somebody else might (they could just rip through the company website:rolleyes:).

Conrad
05-11-2009, 13:53
(they could just rip through the company website:rolleyes:).
This is not unheard of.

If I am honest I prefer to be as elitist as possible, in some ways I would like to make this a real ale site as that does seem to be where the most genuine interest comes from. The real challenge however is to try and find a way to make this site a site for all users, and I am not sure how we can go about that.

Some of the suggestions already gone by - like icons will definitely help this. I would also like to kind of head in a social networking direction, so if people like pubs that PaulOfHorsham has suggested are good, they might want to try other pubs he has liked, and if we can cross reference multiple reviewers then it gets even better. I am not really sure how we will go about this and it is still a long way off, but for me the interface should make the site behave in the way you want it to.

arwkrite
05-11-2009, 13:55
Called in at the Toby Inn, Worcester this lunch time and behold they have Butcombe Bitter and St Austell Tribute on hand pumps. This and the nearby Harvester resturant are local pubs to sizeable new housing developements. I wonder what the Harvester have put on?

Soup Dragon
05-11-2009, 14:00
Called in at the Toby Inn, Worcester this lunch time and behold they have Butcombe Bitter and St Austell Tribute on hand pumps. This and the nearby Harvester resturant are local pubs to sizeable new housing developements. I wonder what the Harvester have put on?

I have not been in a Harvester for years, but i have ventured into a couple of Toby places now because they do have real ale. I still tend to rate them as pubs, even if i eat, i will say the food was good etc, but i dont list the menu - but i do the beers!

hopwas
05-11-2009, 14:12
I wonder what the Harvester have put on?

I can safely say they do stock Pedigree, John Smiths and the usual stuff but no real ales :(

Source: Ladybridge, Tamworth

Farway
05-11-2009, 14:31
As to Social clubs, I kind of think they should be included oddly, having a lot of x-military relatives (who doesn't) I would like it if the Royal Legion was listed on here, whilst it doesn't help our Real Ale members, it would help those veterans who are visiting a town and want to find a friendly place to drink.



I second this idea,as ex RN I and others would find this useful

By a conincedence I was in Bracklesham Bay the other weekend, just one pub, the Lively Lady http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/39475/ and in my review I actually did say walk down road to the Legion could be wise

The Legion there had two draught beers, HSB & Old Speckled, but as I was reviewing the LL I did not add that bit as not really relevant to LL

arwkrite
05-11-2009, 16:42
I can safely say they do stock Pedigree, John Smiths and the usual stuff but no real ales :(

Source: Ladybridge, Tamworth

Thanks Hopwas I dont mind Pedigree. If I do visit a Harvester it because I have a " Chicken Moment" when we are out and about. It happens about three times a year.Chances are I will be drinking wine. Fish and chips go well with beer or tea. Just can'y take the bulk these days.

Eddie86
05-11-2009, 17:35
This is exactly why we're being reassessed by the Visit Wales team (one day - it's completely unknown when they do it, it's a true 'mystery shopper' :eek:) as an Inn

It's taken as granted that a hotel rating will be one less than an inn - for example we're a 2 star hotel but would probably be a 3 star inn (although we're aiming for 4*)

When I think of hotel, I think of stiff, smartly dressed staff, no ale and quite cold and characterless. Whereas an Inn I think warm fire, etc etc etc.

Restaurants galore sounds like a good idea, and hotels galore - no reason why listings can't be cross-listed.

Oggwyn Trench
05-11-2009, 18:54
Things get ever more confusing , i know a couple of upmarket country house hotels that serve decent , local real ales in their public bars .
The Shrewsbury Hotel is as the name suggests an hotel but also a wetherspoons , so pub or hotel ?
And just for Conrad , our local Cricket club (St Georges) is a GBG regular and is better than most of the surrounding pubs .

Oggwyn Trench
05-11-2009, 18:56
Thinking about it , didnt most clubs (social , legion , labour , workingmens etc) have their own brewery , Federation ?

Dave M
05-11-2009, 19:16
And just for Conrad , our local Cricket club (St Georges) is a GBG regular and is better than most of the surrounding pubs .

I've noticed there are quite a few well regarded sports clubs that get added.

I must admit I raised an eyebrow when I saw a member adding the Darlington Snooker Club (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/67125/), but since it won the local CAMRA pub of the year award it pretty much had to go on. It is really helpful though when the person submitting it leaves a review to explain why it should be on here.

arwkrite
06-11-2009, 09:02
This is exactly why we're being reassessed by the Visit Wales team (one day - it's completely unknown when they do it, it's a true 'mystery shopper' :eek:) as an Inn

It's taken as granted that a hotel rating will be one less than an inn - for example we're a 2 star hotel but would probably be a 3 star inn (although we're aiming for 4*)

When I think of hotel, I think of stiff, smartly dressed staff, no ale and quite cold and characterless. Whereas an Inn I think warm fire, etc etc etc.

Restaurants galore sounds like a good idea, and hotels galore - no reason why listings can't be cross-listed.

Good Luck with the assessment Eddie. Wonder why the difference between a hotel and an inn re. stars. I recall something that an inn had to offer refreshment or/and accommodation at any time of day or night to a traveller but I think that went out years ago.
I find the term Hotel much misused these days.When I visited North London some were little more than licenced B& Bs where the beer was always on the turn. Travelodge and Travel inn were a better option in many cases.
I used to drink at a pub called the *** **** Inn. The only accommodation it had was if the lady publican fancied you for a nights entertainment.:)Does that come under the heading "A warm fire,etc,etc,etc ?:D

oldboots
06-11-2009, 09:48
Thinking about it , didnt most clubs (social , legion , labour , workingmens etc) have their own brewery , Federation ?

Quite right, the famous Federation Brewery is at Dunston, Gateshead and is now where Heinekin brew "Newcastle" Brown Ale, only for the moment though as it will soon close and brewing move to that well known geordie town........ Tadcaster. The Fed' brewery was started by a federation of northern workingmens clubs, there was also one in South Wales which I think became Crown.

Federation ale was sold in the bars in the House of Commons, but I don't think we ought to have them on PG :D. The clubs in the GBG tend to only let in people with CAMRA membership cards or sometimes those who wave a copy of the current guide, either way it's not really a pub.

hopwas
06-11-2009, 10:09
geordie town........ Tadcaster

Ahem oldboots but sorry innit Tadcaster is Yorkie town? :rolleyes:

oldboots
06-11-2009, 10:48
geordie town........ Tadcaster

Ahem oldboots but sorry innit Tadcaster is Yorkie town? :rolleyes:

my irony is wasted here :(

Conrad
06-11-2009, 11:47
my irony is wasted here :(
Trouble is you used full stops, it is well known on the Intermernet you need to use smileys :p

;)

Eddie86
06-11-2009, 12:13
Good Luck with the assessment Eddie. Wonder why the difference between a hotel and an inn re. stars. I recall something that an inn had to offer refreshment or/and accommodation at any time of day or night to a traveller but I think that went out years ago.
I find the term Hotel much misused these days.When I visited North London some were little more than licenced B& Bs where the beer was always on the turn. Travelodge and Travel inn were a better option in many cases.
I used to drink at a pub called the *** **** Inn. The only accommodation it had was if the lady publican fancied you for a nights entertainment.:)Does that come under the heading "A warm fire,etc,etc,etc ?:D

I wouldn't dare comment on entertainment for the staff/landlady! I've heard of a couple of pubs called the Seven Stars Inn, which one is it :rolleyes:

I like to think of it as an Inn is a pub with rooms and food, a hotel is rooms with a bar and food...

aleandhearty
22-03-2011, 14:07
I have given this thread a 'bump' having just read 'shoggie's ' post on the 'Review????' thread. He feels aggrieved because a venue that requires membership has been deleted. From memory I thought that this issue was quite clear cut, but having re-read this thread, it's actually more balanced than I recall. Maybe the issue of social clubs needs looking at again?

Strongers
22-03-2011, 14:34
It seems a shame to delete any useful input, but I still think that anyone should be able to walk in and have a pint without paying an entrance fee, be that by membership or on the door.

Conrad
22-03-2011, 15:12
I guess there is an element of what you think the site is for. I have always thought that it would be nice to show the British Legion on the site so that branches could be easily found (although I am guessing there is somewhere better for that), I wouldn't particularly want them reviewed though. Similarly it would be nice to for instance show music venues along with a what's on guide to any area, and if we were to do that I think it would be essential to include ticketed venues.

Long term I hope we can do it by improving the filtering and categorisation on the site, but it is hard to know how exactly we are going to do some of that. For now as Strongers says, I think the thing that bothers me more is where we delete any useful input.

Farway
22-03-2011, 15:12
I still think that anyone should be able to walk in and have a pint without paying an entrance fee, be that by membership or on the door.

Me to, as noted on 'Review???? thread, Pub is short for Public house, so Joe public must be able to just walk in off the street & buy a pint or other alcholic drink without having to jump through hoops, buy a meal, pay a fee, sign in or complete a form

By definition this must exclude members clubs, staff canteens, sports clubs, swimming pools, airside terminal bars, etc, and sadly for me [& Conrad] British Legion as well

shoggie
22-03-2011, 15:27
It’s all fine and dandy only allowing pubs on this site but I do think some
of your comments are in the dark ages somewhat, I mean only pubs that sell cask
ales well that knocks half the pubs out, even though I am a cask drinker.



But I also feel some are a bit behind the times where social clubs are
involved with more and more pubs closing every day in some communities, social
clubs are all they have apart from the odd one or two pubs that to tell you the
truth I would not drink in them if you paid me, with their eye on profit for
the managers than keeping a real good pint.



Whereas social clubs are none profit and the people that manage them are
members that like to drink in them (yes you can be right some are a bit Clichy
but not all) one that I enjoy is like a breath of fresh especially on a weekend
a place where young and old enjoy a good drink at unbelievable prices and not
trouble.



Social clubs might have a fee to join or a nominal day fee but compare that
to some of the prices you pay for in a pub for a pint you might fine it works
out cheaper and for a much nicer pint.

ROBCamra
22-03-2011, 15:40
It’s all fine and dandy only allowing pubs on this site but I do think some
of your comments are in the dark ages somewhat, I mean only pubs that sell cask
ales well that knocks half the pubs out, even though I am a cask drinker.
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]



No idea where you've got this one from. I don't think anyone on here has ever said that only pubs that sell cask ale should be on. :confused:

aleandhearty
22-03-2011, 15:40
personally I detest places that pretend to be pubs but are really restaurants, clubs or residents only hotel bars. So on that basis my definition of a "pub" is a business that would

sell draught beer (keg or cask)
not have a charge for entry (except maybe Christmas/NewYears),
not restrict entry on the basis of membership, style, looks, etc,
not require the purchase of food in order to purchase drink,


As to Social clubs, I kind of think they should be included oddly, having a lot of x-military relatives (who doesn't)


...so Joe public must be able to just walk in off the street & buy a pint or other alcholic drink without having to jump through hoops, buy a meal, pay a fee, sign in or complete a form

By definition this must exclude members clubs, staff canteens, sports clubs, swimming pools, airside terminal bars, etc, and sadly for me [& Conrad] British Legion as well

I think 'ob' and 'Farway' sum up my views up quite nicely. (As a dyed in the wool tradionalist, I even struggle with boxy modern bars being included!:)) Although many clubs have a fairly relaxed admissions policy, regarding being signed in, I still feel uncomfortable with the idea of being reliant on someone else to gain entry. This was the reason I never suggested Wakefield Labour Club (although later added by RogerB), even though it's a regular GBG entry.

Conrad
22-03-2011, 15:56
But I also feel some are a bit behind the times where social clubs are
involved with more and more pubs closing every day in some communities, social
clubs are all they have apart from the odd one or two pubs that to tell you the
truth I would not drink in them if you paid me, with their eye on profit for
the managers than keeping a real good pint.
So to try and summarise, because we are concerned about the number of pubs closing we should use this site to promote Social Clubs on an equal footing :confused:

Sorry, that is a little facetious but I am confused as to what you want a social club on this review site for. Where I have fancied the idea of members venues it is to allow them to promote live acts, or allow veterans to find a drink in a new town. I am just not sure what we gain from showing community social clubs on Pubs Galore.

NickDavies
22-03-2011, 16:01
Maybe social clubs could be included but only with their consent and/or making it clear what the entrance requirement is. It wouldn't be fair to put clubs in a position to have to refuse admission to people who'd turned up in good faith "because we found you on the internet"

Conrad
22-03-2011, 16:06
Maybe social clubs could be included but only with their consent and/or making it clear what the entrance requirement is. It wouldn't be fair to put clubs in a position to have to refuse admission to people who'd turned up in good faith "because we found you on the internet"
That would require us to check with them, fine if we are charging them (and I fully support that :)), but not convenient for us at the moment.

Al 10000
22-03-2011, 16:28
It’s all fine and dandy only allowing pubs on this site but I do think some
of your comments are in the dark ages somewhat, I mean only pubs that sell cask
ales well that knocks half the pubs out, even though I am a cask drinker.
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]


I dont agree with what you are saying this is a Pub Site and your comments saying we only review or allow pubs that have cask ale on the bar is wrong if you have read any of my reviews i always state if a pub sells cask or not and i probably visit more none cask pubs and i still put a review of them on this site.

Delboy20
22-03-2011, 19:45
Not this old topic again !!!

Seriously I think it is open to debate and we will never all agree on what should be included. In my opinion if I have to pay to gain entry it is not a "pub". Then we have the grey area as some clubs (such as my local Liberal club) have a seperate bar for non members - I can walk in off the street for a beer so maybe that is a "pub"

How can we include anywhere that has a bar ?? That means every Labour, Liberal, Tory and working mans club should be on here. Then what about other places such as snooker clubs and even casinos - do they really warrant a place on " pubs galore " ??

We need to come up with some rules on this - perhaps we could get our heads together and decide once and for all.

I'll kick off with it must be open to the public - If I can't walk in and have a pint without paying an entrance fee / membership it shouldn't be on the site.

Over to you .......

Strongers
22-03-2011, 22:12
personally I detest places that pretend to be pubs but are really restaurants, clubs or residents only hotel bars. So on that basis my definition of a "pub" is a business that would

sell draught beer (keg or cask)
not have a charge for entry (except maybe Christmas/NewYears),
not restrict entry on the basis of membership, style, looks, etc,
not require the purchase of food in order to purchase drink,

I think that OB summed it up earlier in the thread.

Blackthorn
23-03-2011, 09:36
I think that OB summed it up earlier in the thread.

I'd certainly agree with OB's last three points. I think the first one is slightly tricker. I've added a couple of bars that don't sell any draught beer, so on that basis these should be deleted. Fair enough if that's the concencus, I don't have a problem with that. But there are many restaurants that have a small bar area at the front that although may be mainly used by diners there's nothing to stop anyone wandering in and having just a drink, and many of these will sell something on draught.

So if we follow that to the letter, we'd have lots of restaurants on here, but we'd be missing several bars that are just drinking establishments.

oldboots
23-03-2011, 10:05
I'd certainly agree with OB's last three points. I think the first one is slightly tricker. I've added a couple of bars that don't sell any draught beer, so on that basis these should be deleted. Fair enough if that's the concencus, I don't have a problem with that. But there are many restaurants that have a small bar area at the front that although may be mainly used by diners there's nothing to stop anyone wandering in and having just a drink, and many of these will sell something on draught.

So if we follow that to the letter, we'd have lots of restaurants on here, but we'd be missing several bars that are just drinking establishments.

For me, and the list was my personal definition of a "pub" and not a drinking establishment, draught beer and "pub" are inseparable. I think places that sell alcohol but not draught beers are "bars" and that's not to say they shouldn't have a place here as long as it's clear what they are - sometimes it's easy; just look for a surname or a Z in the name :D . (& of course the name will change every six months too)

Point 4 on my list excludes pure restaurants but not those that allow you to wander in and just buy a drink without restriction, again they should have a place here but clearly defined as what they are.

We have dozens of bars on the site - mostly without reviews - because that sort of place doesn't seem to appeal to the core reviewers; due to our average age I guess. For a good example of this check out the Fleet St / Slater St / Wood St / Bold St area of Liverpool City Centre probably centred on this one (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/71372/).

I think Conrad has said before we shouldn't get too hung up on the Pubs bit of Pubs Galore.

hondo
23-03-2011, 10:42
I think Conrad has said before we shouldn't get too hung up on the Pubs bit of Pubs Galore. :notworthy:

ROBCamra
23-03-2011, 11:06
I think Conrad has said before we shouldn't get too hung up on the Pubs bit of Pubs Galore.

Or on candles and :twigs: OB.:D

oldboots
23-03-2011, 11:34
Or on candles and :twigs: OB.:D

there are limits, very definite limits, and candles, tea lights and associated dross are well on the far side of them :moremad:

Ban 'em all I say!

arwkrite
23-03-2011, 12:10
Talking of tea lights and candles there is a pub in my town which is covered in them. Supposedly cheaper than using electricity.

Oggwyn Trench
23-03-2011, 18:19
OB sums it up for me , if you can walk in off the street and buy a pint , be it in a traditional boozer , chavy lager barn or trendy winebar its OK on here , if to gain entry you need to be signed in or pay or need membership no .

If you start adding clubs where do you stop , the local Sikh Temple has a bar would anyone want that on here

Blackthorn
23-03-2011, 19:24
For a good example of this check out the Fleet St / Slater St / Wood St / Bold St area of Liverpool City Centre probably centred on this one (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/71372/).

I think you're right there OB, I just had a quick look at thier website. Apparently their cocktail bar does a sensational range of "Fish Bowls" :confused:

NickDavies
23-03-2011, 20:25
If you start adding clubs where do you stop , the local Sikh Temple has a bar would anyone want that on here

Probably not, as Sikhism forbids alcohol. Pity really, as Sikh temples must provide sustenance to all comers of any faith or none.

Oggwyn Trench
23-03-2011, 20:44
Probably not, as Sikhism forbids alcohol. Pity really, as Sikh temples must provide sustenance to all comers of any faith or none.

Not 100% if the new purpose built temple has one , but the old one certainly did , serving Tetley Smooth and Carlsberg , the place was a bit like a small leisure centre with a Gym , function room(for hire , maybe thats why they had a bar) as well as the main prayer rooms .

Soup Dragon
24-03-2011, 15:46
there are limits, very definite limits, and candles, tea lights and associated dross are well on the far side of them :moremad:

Ban 'em all I say!

Darn right OB, as well as chopped wood next to gas fires and bloomin' vases and abstract sculpturey stuff. Ban smiling and Christmas too.

One handpull (aka handpump), selling Bathams MILD - all you need.

http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/63885/ I did review our local Temple!

General Staal
25-03-2011, 10:32
Ah Soupy! Batham's Mild, nice as it is, is not enough. How about Wye Valley Butty Bach? Or Beowulf Beorma? Or Two Towers Jewellery Porter? Banks's Mild is also a very nice pint. Even Batham's Bitter or Enville Ale? And Milton Brewery's Mammon, very strong, but very tasty. Black Dog Rhatas - amazing!

I'd say a pub needs at least four real ale hand pulls, two different pale beers and two different dark beers.

But not Purity...Oh no, nothing by Purity...

ETA
25-03-2011, 11:04
I'd say a pub needs at least four real ale hand pulls, two different pale beers and two different dark beers.



and a really good cider for the rare occasions it's merited.

Andy Ven
01-04-2011, 21:09
Although many clubs have a fairly relaxed admissions policy, regarding being signed in, I still feel uncomfortable with the idea of being reliant on someone else to gain entry. This was the reason I never suggested Wakefield Labour Club (although later added by RogerB), even though it's a regular GBG entry.

I agree with your rationale. The Good Beer Guide is, as it says on the tin, a guide to good beer rather than specifically a pub guide. An example I have come across this week is Bernie's Real Ale off-licence in Shirley, Solihull. It's been in the GBG for about 25 years or something but it's clearly not a pub ........ so I won't be adding it, taking a photograph or doing a review

Andy Ven
01-04-2011, 21:17
Ah Soupy! Batham's Mild, nice as it is, is not enough. How about Wye Valley Butty Bach? Or Beowulf Beorma? Or Two Towers Jewellery Porter? Banks's Mild is also a very nice pint. Even Batham's Bitter or Enville Ale? And Milton Brewery's Mammon, very strong, but very tasty. Black Dog Rhatas - amazing!

I'd say a pub needs at least four real ale hand pulls, two different pale beers and two different dark beers.

I prefer the darker ales but it seems the majority of beers on offer are on the paler side because that's what sells. E.g. the beer board in the Wellington is predominantly A and B category beers, even in winter, and typically only one or two D or E http://www.thewellingtonrealale.co.uk/pages/beerboard.php

Give me Sarah Hughes Dark Ruby and Highgate Mild anyday!

(By the way, GS, they are still working on the Boars Head)

trainman
01-04-2011, 23:48
http://www.thewellingtonrealale.co.uk/pages/beerboard.php


Is 16 having an identity crisis? I'd have thought SPA was special pale ale, but Cat.D?

Wittenden
02-04-2011, 10:12
[QUOTE=Andy Ven;30385]http://www.thewellingtonrealale.co.uk/pages/beerboard.php

I've not come across colour classifications A-E before. Also I'd hate to have to order ales by pump number-reminds me of a dodgy Chinese! It gives the impression that the landlord/barstaff aren't interested in the beers themselves, and just see them as a commodity to knock out a la TESCO.

trainman
02-04-2011, 10:49
[QUOTE=Andy Ven;30385]http://www.thewellingtonrealale.co.uk/pages/beerboard.php

Also I'd hate to have to order ales by pump number- It gives the impression that the landlord/barstaff aren't interested in the beers themselves, .

I don't mind that, tbh, probably speeds up service when there are a lot of beers on. Often ordered by number at The Crown (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/53526/), where they certainly aren't disinterested in beer. I believe that would be the case at the Wellie too.
Just wish there were more pubs around where choice of ales made numbering likely!

Wittenden
02-04-2011, 13:17
[QUOTE=Wittenden;30392]

I don't mind that, tbh, probably speeds up service when there are a lot of beers on. Often ordered by number at The Crown (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/53526/), where they certainly aren't disinterested in beer. I believe that would be the case at the Wellie too.
Just wish there were more pubs around where choice of ales made numbering likely!

I suppose I don't really like busy pubs (did all that years ago)-didn't really care for the Market Porter, despite the wonderful range-preferred the nearby Rake, even though its really too achingly trendy for a bumpkin like me.

oldboots
02-04-2011, 18:48
... I'd hate to have to order ales by pump number-reminds me of a dodgy Chinese! It gives the impression that the landlord/barstaff aren't interested in the beers themselves, and just see them as a commodity to knock out a la TESCO.

The reason seems to be the fast turnover of ales, this is a city centre boozer very famous for high quality ales. They certainly wouldn't fall into the category of not being interested. The magnificent Birmingham PuG pi55 Up started off in here last year and a fine time was had by all, even Father Ted.

Wittenden
02-04-2011, 23:23
The reason seems to be the fast turnover of ales, this is a city centre boozer very famous for high quality ales. They certainly wouldn't fall into the category of not being interested. The magnificent Birmingham PuG pi55 Up started off in here last year and a fine time was had by all, even Father Ted.

Looks as if I'll have to give it a try-last time I was in Brum it was all Ansells and I think M and B.

Soup Dragon
14-02-2012, 16:53
Yes, this old chestnut again....

I have started planning a few trips, especially around the Birmingham areas. I have noticed several private clubs (working men's etc) on the site. I know there are grey areas regarding pub/restaurants, pub/cafes and pub/hotels, but is it at least possible to get a decision on private clubs? What is the point of having a pointer on a map, or writing a review for a place that none of you can actually get in, unless attending a private function? I can't see my Lord of Horsham, or hondo being invited to a 60th at the Star Member's Club in Stechford (once the North Star pub, by the way). I still believe that places on here should be free entry.

With hotels - which are in fact massive hotel complexes that do weddings, conferences, have golf courses, private fishing, as well as having gyms, tanning studios, restaurants (no mention on their websites of a bar!) - i simply propose to write a comment that these places are what they are, instead of asking for removal from the site.

Al 10000
14-02-2012, 17:19
I think you are banging your head against a brick wall concerning deletion of private clubs,because if certain PUG users go in one and find a drop of real ale on there they will then go ahead and add it to the site.

I completly agree with what you are saying, but dont give up trying to delete hotels and the like.

If any club or similar comes up for proposal for going on the site i will as usuall argue against it and more than likely be shot down in flames,but i will still carry on argueing my point about not having to have CAMRA membership or pay a fee to get into said establishment.

Quinno
14-02-2012, 18:28
Whilst I certainly have sympathy with the 'free entry only' argument, I think we need a little flexibility. I got Leyton Orient Supporters club added the other day. Why? Because I genuinely believe that a large number of this site's users would find the listing beneficial due to their beer festivals and numerous CAMRA awards.

Whilst guidelines are always useful I think being too rigid is just as bad, personally.

gillhalfpint
14-02-2012, 18:46
I'm with Quinno on this one and feel that I must be one of those referred to by Al 10000.

Many of the pubs I looked up in Weston that were on the site are less deserving of entry than a really good club, and a review is useful information about a drinking establishment, and once read, it is up to the reader to decide if it is a place he/she wants to visit.

Any review is therefore useful, whether it be club, pub. bar, hotel or airport bar.

Soup Dragon
15-02-2012, 09:33
it is up to the reader to decide if it is a place he/she wants to visit.

Any review is therefore useful, whether it be club, pub. bar, hotel or airport bar.

The point is it ISN'T up to the reader if they WANT to visit, as they can't get in!

I have far less of a problem with clubs that are on if someone HAS visited and reports back (even if private), it is the plethora of those that are on because someone has simply took a photo and there is no review at all.

If any place that serves a drink (one small place i know simply serves lager/bitter and Guinness in cans) can be reported on, then surely 'Pubs Galore' is a misleading site-name, should it not be beer galore (no offence to cocktail drinkers)?

Maybe a rule that a club/large hotel etc that is put on should have a review to accompany it?

arwkrite
15-02-2012, 09:54
I have visited a number of very nice bars within fitness and health spas. Don't go getting the wrong idea I merely visited as a non functioning guest . My stepsons were members and I was providing the wheels.No way would I consider them eligible for entry to PuG no matter how good they were. If you have to pay for entry or meet other criteria such as being a member before entry is granted then it is not a pub . What confuses me is eating places that allow you to pop in for a drink without having a meal.

Bucking Fastard
15-02-2012, 10:04
it is the plethora of those that are on because someone has simply took a photo and there is no review at all.



Maybe a rule that a club/large hotel etc that is put on should have a review to accompany it?

This sounds like a useful compromise,maybe one for the Admins to consider.If the reviewer could also include details on how members of the public can gain entry to the said establishment ,then PuG members would have the information to make a decision about whether they are able and willing to visit the place.

gillhalfpint
15-02-2012, 10:06
I cannot understand the logic of taking a photo and not doing a review of sorts, even if to say it was closed at the time of visit. That was my problem at Newquay and Weston when I visited places listed on here without reviews, and I found it was a total waste of time (to me anyway).

A club in Halesowen says in GBG that you needed to have CAMRA card or GBG to get in, and I have been plenty of times without ever being asked for the card or book, and the same applies to the Kings Heath Cricket and Sports Club. I have been for their Sunday carvery and to their beer festivals and never had to show ID of any sort.

It would be a shame to have places as good as these removed when there are so many on site still that have no reviews at all and no-one therefore knows what sort of place they are. If any places were to be removed, I would say those with no reviews, whether a photo held or not. Some photos may be ancient and names and use could well have changed since they were put on.

There is no way we are all going to agree on this issue, as people feel strongly one way or the other.

Conrad
15-02-2012, 10:55
If any place that serves a drink (one small place i know simply serves lager/bitter and Guinness in cans) can be reported on, then surely 'Pubs Galore' is a misleading site-name, should it not be beer galore (no offence to cocktail drinkers)?
Black mark for using the why is it called Pubs Galore argument. As I have said before fixating on this is not productive. :p

As to the removing listings that are not reviewed, whilst I personally have sympathies with the argument I am not happy to follow it. The photographers don't post on the forum and thus aren't represented, but they have put a lot of work into the site predating any of the posters on this thread in the last few days. Without their contributions the site probably wouldn't have been maintained and gone by the time you got here. If we are to forget how we got here should we remove all of your reviews when we find that we are getting a higher proportion of contribution from Facebook and you aren't valued by the new flavour?

Also I don't hold favour with deleting old photos, especially where the names have been changed, it is possible that we hold the only image of that frontage that is visible on the net, where do you start drawing that line, especially with all the fears about the speed with which pubs are closing.

Just in case anyone is not aware currently we do delete anything you request which has no content, and we delete anything with content where supported with a reasonable justification. I am happy to revise that where there is a concensus. Another thing to consider is that where we delete images they are gone for good.

Soup Dragon
15-02-2012, 12:11
Hi Conrad,

I wouldn't want to delete older photos of pubs - it is good to preserve the history.

As regards clubs and so forth, what about:-
Leave on what is on (on a personal note, if i come across any i will try and give an advice note/review (CIU sign etc) )
Any future 'private clubs' requested should have a review giving such info - especially as some clubs are not obvious by their name - it seems the Poacher's Pocket in Shard End (Brum) is now private for example.

Anyhow - see what people think. I fear the maps would become less useful if they start getting choked-up with pointers for places you can't get into - i have as many clubs as pubs near me - mind you, it will do my review stats some good!;)

Conrad
15-02-2012, 13:30
Whilst that sounds reasonable, how can we tell if they are clubs when they are submitted?

Soup Dragon
15-02-2012, 13:33
Whilst that sounds reasonable, how can we tell if they are clubs when they are submitted?

Most will have 'club' in the title - not saying you will get all of them, but a note on the pub request page may be needed too?

Conrad
15-02-2012, 14:20
Dave does the approvals, if he is happy to exclude titles with club in the name then I don't see why not (although it kind of invalidates your whole point about Poachers Pocket).

However it can just lead to a negative masking behaviour, I am extremely suspicious this is why we have ended up with a number of cafe's on the system which have "Bar & Restaurant" in the title.

Al 10000
15-02-2012, 14:32
I have just had a look at two of Quinnos additions to the site the Red Lion in Crich and Leyton Orient supporters club and they have the same map markers as normal pubs do.

If these sort of places are going to be added to the site car'nt they have a different colour so has to warn people that these are not normal pubs with normal opening times and you might even have to pay for admission.

PS I do like these arguments they seem to be a bit thin on the ground recently.

Conrad
15-02-2012, 14:58
I have just had a look at two of Quinnos additions to the site the Red Lion in Crich and Leyton Orient supporters club and they have the same map markers as normal pubs do.

If these sort of places are going to be added to the site car'nt they have a different colour so has to warn people that these are not normal pubs with normal opening times and you might even have to pay for admission.

PS I do like these arguments they seem to be a bit thin on the ground recently.
Is it theoretically possible, yes, assuming the person adding them tells us it is a club.

Have I got the time to do it, no.

oldboots
15-02-2012, 15:52
I cannot understand the logic of taking a photo and not doing a review of sorts, even if to say it was closed at the time of visit. That was my problem at Newquay and Weston when I visited places listed on here without reviews, and I found it was a total waste of time (to me anyway).

Personally I find a photo without a review is quite useful on the basis that one picture is worth a thousand words, I know you shouldn't judge a book by its cover but for example which of these pubs near each other would appeal most?

Hearts of Oak (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/5632/)
Shoulder Of Mutton (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/5640/)

Like Soupy I would not delete old pictures on the historical interest basis that Conrad alludes too as well. I see a few ancient postcard views have crept onto the site as well.

Rex_Rattus
15-02-2012, 16:03
I got invited into a private member's club recently (thanks Brakslover) which I reckon would be a shoo in for inclusion if we ever do decide to include them. It served the rarely seen (in London) Palmer's Bitter, was located in a superb old builing overlooking the Thames, had the original dark wood panelling occasionally seen in pubs, and had a couple of snooker tables. To put the cap on it, it was called The Winchester, and even had a portrait of the great Arthur Daley in a display case! What class!! And they didn't display the blatant rattism experienced elsewhere, when I was denied access to a bar in a masonic temple on the flimsy pretext that I wasn't a mason! But they do have a dress code, which doesn't allow in those wearing T-shirts. Now I was wearing a T-shirt, but I can only assume that because it was the famous Pubs Galore T-shirt they let me in on the basis that such a well dressed person would enhance the overall ambience of the club!

But I'm not planning to ask for any private member's clubs to be added. We know what a pub is, and I'm planning to stick to the agreed definition - in general. But I reckon there might be the occasional exception to the rule that warrants special treatment (I believe a teetotal pub was added a while ago). In which case, fair enough but I would say that they have to be special cases like the LOSC.

Like Alan I don't mind seeing these issues re-aired from to time. Enough people contribute so I suppose in general we aren't bored with it yet. Anyone who is bored with the issue is of course free to ignore it.

Soup Dragon
15-02-2012, 16:10
Have I got the time to do it, no.

@Conrad: Love it - just say what you mean, don't beat about the bush:D

I think the Poacher's Pocket is more the exception than the rule - as we all agree on here, nothing is definitive, or will please everyone! - my main corncern with the clubs as opposed to bary/restauranty/hotelly places is that clubs are technically inaccessible - they may not ask you for a membership card, but they should (unless CAMRA card, or other means get you in).

@Al - i thought about the pointer colours, but i think Conrad has just answered that - i refer you to the above!

@OB - is that your mobility scooter outside the 'Mutton'?

oldboots
15-02-2012, 16:14
@OB - is that your mobility scooter outside the 'Mutton'?

Mine is much sportier than that! The photo was taken in Peterlee and I suspect the mobility scooter is the vehicle of choice around those parts.

Strongers
15-02-2012, 16:19
Excluding Cafe Rouge and Carluccio's etc I will endeavour to have a beer in all of the places listed on here. If I can't have a beer I will ask for the establishment to be removed if there is no photo or the photo is old and a drive-by, which is a very rare occurence. What usually happens is that I make a note on the pub's page saying that it is not a place to go for a beer.

an example: http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/10443/

I'm guilty of adding a few 'bar and kitchens' but I have been in all of them and had a beer without paying for anything but my drink. I'm no David Bailey, but I take a picture with my phone whenever I find a new place or have to report a name change. As my visits are usually in the evening this becomes difficult during the winter months due to the lack of light.

Soup Dragon
15-02-2012, 16:24
I tend to do more re-reviews over the dark nights, due to photograph issues.

If you review a place, then no need to feel guilty about it - i have added some places that i am unsure of, but at least can justify it. I have always failed to see why though i should add somewhere that i can't go in!

Galore Admin
15-02-2012, 16:52
If you review a place, then no need to feel guilty about it
Wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment, the site wouldn't be here but for the contributors.

Beat around the bush, Soup? Just trying to avoid confusion. Sadly it is the truth that I don't have time to promise developments, we have some in mind and I am doing them when I get a spare 5 minutes, it frustrates me as well.

Conrad

Millay
15-02-2012, 22:56
Interesting debate, and I nearly jumped in at the outset last night when I was drunk, glad I didn't. Generally I share the early thoughts of Quinno and Gill.

If an establishment is already on PuG then I have no problem with that unless I have been there and have established personally that I don't think it should be - i.e. not just on the name or other peoples reviews (or lack thereof).

I can understand the benefit of 'drive by shooting' in order to build the site up, although of course the addition of a personal review would be be preferable. That of course pre-supposes that it is a recent photo of the pub or a recent review.

I see some photos of shops, offices, car parks etc. being added of premises that presumably used be pubs 5, 10, 25 or 50+ years ago. I say presumably because these are rarely accompanied by any details of the pub in question.

This does of course add an element, however vague, of a long ago historical element to the site, which may be seen as a positive aspect by some respected members.

Blackthorn
15-02-2012, 23:33
I cannot understand the logic of taking a photo and not doing a review of sorts, even if to say it was closed at the time of visit. That was my problem at Newquay and Weston when I visited places listed on here without reviews, and I found it was a total waste of time (to me anyway).

Since I'm guilty of posting photo's of a number of those "pubs" in Weston, perhaps I had better outline my reasoning. The day in question I was having my car serviced and had a few hours to kill. Weston was very under-represented in terms of reviews, photo's or even accurate listings on here. I resolved not only to photograph any pubs that were missing them, from the central area at least, but also to do an audit of all the (central-ish) pubs to ensure that the listings were up to date. That included a walk out to Kewstoke, which is probably two or three miles, and where I reviewed The New Castle (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/61883/) (ironically not really a pub anymore).

My updates to the site that day included 30 or so photo's IIRC, as well as various closures, name changes and a couple of new pubs. Had I stopped to go in every one, even if it was only for a cursory glance, then I wouldn't have got round as many as I did and other listings would consequently be completely wrong.

By the way, I don't really have an opinion on exactly what should be included. I generally subscribe to the usual free entry idea, but can see that there might be valid exceptions to this.

AlanH
16-02-2012, 02:57
This old (revived) thread about what should be included on, or deleted from the site, I see is very controversial.
I agree generally with the view that a "pub" is any bar that you are free to purchase an alcoholic drink without paying an entrance fee, membership fee, or having to purchase a meal or accommodation. My view on this gets tested (and relaxed) when my favourite, traditional, multi Real Ale pubs, start charging an entrance fee (often just occasional nights) to watch a musical group or other entertainment. I would not like to see these pubs deleted.
PuG has also now grown into a multi-interest pub site, eg. The historical interest in closed pubs. These old reviews and photos are amongst my favourite topics.

Different areas of the country have different needs (and problems). I was concerned by the comment that pubs with "no content" are deleted on request. This could mean large areas and towns are wiped off the pub map because no one has been there yet! Eg. Ammanford in Dyfed could lose 22 of it's 26 pubs. I believe these 'pub list' areas should be retained for someone to eventually get there to review them.

hondo
16-02-2012, 08:12
What usually happens is that I make a note on the pub's page saying that it is not a place to go for a beer.

an example: http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/10443/

"a cast of extraordinary characters starts to assemble " :rolleyes:;)
http://www.devere-hotels.co.uk/hotel-lodges/locations/the-grand/eating-drinking/bars.html

Strongers
16-02-2012, 12:06
"a cast of extraordinary characters starts to assemble " :rolleyes:;)
http://www.devere-hotels.co.uk/hotel-lodges/locations/the-grand/eating-drinking/bars.html

Great :(. Now I have to put it back on the list.

Note to self, must try harder.

Soup Dragon
16-02-2012, 14:12
So - after all of that - do the good PG'ers here agree that:-

With 'private clubs', these should only be put on now if a review is accompanying - hopefully including access criteria.

we simply accept other places (big hotels/bistro/cafe/strangey in-between things) for what they are, and while a review is preferable, they simply go on as normal, as they are 'free entry' at least.


If so - is this workable Dave? Are you happy to do it and..................... do you have the time? :whistle:

Farway
16-02-2012, 15:07
[QUOTE=AlanH;41807PuG has also now grown into a multi-interest pub site, eg. The historical interest in closed pubs. These old reviews and photos are amongst my favourite topics.

Different areas of the country have different needs (and problems). I was concerned by the comment that pubs with "no content" are deleted on request. This could mean large areas and towns are wiped off the pub map because no one has been there yet! Eg. Ammanford in Dyfed could lose 22 of it's 26 pubs. I believe these 'pub list' areas should be retained for someone to eventually get there to review them.[/QUOTE]

I agree a pub with photo & no review should remain, for reasons given above, plus picture worth a thousand words point, I try and get the surrounding area in if possible, thus if dwarfed bysurroundings as here (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/67526/) .etc, or where you could while away some time jhttp://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/13620/just looking

Regarding shop photo etc where a pub once was for historical reasons I think should be included, I intend to post the Tesco that will replace my local, once it is built that is

Soup Dragon
16-02-2012, 15:17
I agree, Farway - nothing wrong with photos that tell the story of a pub - even if it was a former site - i add them.

AlanH, i don't think that anyone was suggesting removing pubs with pictures and no reviews, just clubs or those places that 'test' the boundaries of what pubs are!

sheffield hatter
16-02-2012, 16:37
I was concerned by the comment that pubs with "no content" are deleted on request. This could mean large areas and towns are wiped off the pub map because no one has been there yet!

I don't think Conrad meant they would be deleted because they have no content, simply that he would have no qualms about deleting a content-less pub listing if requested (e.g. hotel with no public bar). If there was content, you would have to give some valid reasons (e.g. research backed up by website URLs)

Strongers
16-02-2012, 16:41
If the pubs with no reviews were deleted they would never get reviewed because we wouldn't know they exist or where they are.

sheffield hatter
16-02-2012, 16:54
I cannot understand the logic of taking a photo and not doing a review of sorts, even if to say it was closed at the time of visit. That was my problem at Newquay and Weston when I visited places listed on here without reviews, and I found it was a total waste of time (to me anyway).

...but if there's no review at all, someone's got to "waste their time" going in to a pub that, it may turn out, no one else will want to go in.

I've taken about eight times as many photos as I've done reviews, and the simple reason is that I wouldn't get around that many pubs to photograph them if I also stopped for a drink. Anyway, it's sometimes impossible to have a drink if it is the wrong time of a) day, b) week or c) year. I got lucky here (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/areas/the-green/cumbria/), but if every closed pub invited me in, I'd struggle to get back on my bike and on to the next.

I've also come across listings where there's a review but no photo. Presumably that can be explained by no equipment, no light, too drunk or just plain forgot. I tend to look on photo-less pubs as an opportunity or a challenge - how can I get there and take a photo? If it turns out also to be open and I can manage a drink too, I'll do a review. I'm less bothered about review-less pubs, though I'm making more of an effort to get round to some in Sheffield this year.

Soup Dragon
16-02-2012, 17:29
but what about the clubs, Sheff? do you think they should be on?

oldboots
16-02-2012, 17:45
but what about the clubs, Sheff? do you think they should be on?

Not if they charge for or limit entry or make you buy a meal, not even those ones with the east European ladies, usually from Poland ;).



...but if there's no review at all, someone's got to "waste their time" going in to a pub .....

Going into a pub a waste of time? surely some mistake here. :confused:

sheffield hatter
16-02-2012, 20:11
but what about the clubs, Sheff? do you think they should be on?

I don't feel very strongly about this, but I do tend to agree with the suggestion made earlier that if someone has been into a club and had a drink there without having to pay an entry fee or jump through any hoops, then they should submit it and review it. By the same token, if a place is listed that turns out to have entry restrictions, anyone who has found it difficult or costly to get in to have a drink can ask for it to be deleted. I don't envisage this resulting in lots of extra work for Conrad and Dave, unless clubs change their policies or start enforcing previously unenforced rules.

Strongers
16-02-2012, 20:57
I don't feel very strongly about this, but I do tend to agree with the suggestion made earlier that if someone has been into a club and had a drink there without having to pay an entry fee or jump through any hoops, then they should submit it and review it. By the same token, if a place is listed that turns out to have entry restrictions, anyone who has found it difficult or costly to get in to have a drink can ask for it to be deleted. I don't envisage this resulting in lots of extra work for Conrad and Dave, unless clubs change their policies or start enforcing previously unenforced rules.

I’m not so sure that anywhere that has had reviews should be deleted. If a pub changes to a private club surely a note in the review section that says such is better than deleting the place. In the interest of history lots of pubs that are now shops, petrol garages and places of worship have been added and I feel that deleting venues with reviews is a step in the wrong direction. For someone to know that a place is a fee paying club surely they must have tried to gain access, so why not just report this fact if there are previous reviews?
I do like the idea of any new clubs to be added must come with a review. The nearest beer outlet to my home is a CIU working men’s club that I’m not allowed to step foot in. I’m certainly not going to take a picture of it and advertise it on this site as somewhere for visitors to my area to visit.

Blackthorn
16-02-2012, 21:49
I’m not so sure that anywhere that has had reviews should be deleted. If a pub changes to a private club surely a note in the review section that says such is better than deleting the place.

It certainly shouldn't be deleted if it used to be a pub. But marking it as closed would probably be appropriate.

Soup Dragon
17-02-2012, 09:59
Going into a pub a waste of time? surely some mistake here. :confused:

:D I agree

ROBCamra
17-02-2012, 11:09
[QUOTE=sheffield hatter;41848I've also come across listings where there's a review but no photo. Presumably that can be explained by no equipment, no light, too drunk or just plain forgot. [/QUOTE]

Or perhaps its the fact that some of us don't even think of carrying a camra whenever we go out for a drink. :rolleyes:;)

I have 859 reviews and 6 photo's of 2 pubs. :p

Conrad
17-02-2012, 11:46
Or perhaps its the fact that some of us don't even think of carrying a camra whenever we go out for a drink. :rolleyes:;)

I have 859 reviews and 6 photo's of 2 pubs. :pThose damn CAMRA's to lazy too even walk, they should give them bus tokens instead.

Still at least they might be able to throw a camera round their neck and take some pictures while you give them a piggy back :p

Soup Dragon
17-02-2012, 12:32
Or perhaps its the fact that some of us don't even think of carrying a camra whenever we go out for a drink. :rolleyes:;)

I have 859 reviews and 6 photo's of 2 pubs. :p

Just not dedicated are you, Mr C?;)

ROBCamra
17-02-2012, 12:32
Those damn CAMRA's to lazy too even walk, they should give them bus tokens instead.

Still at least they might be able to throw a camera round their neck and take some pictures while you give them a piggy back :p

Ah yes, a freudian slip there I think. :o:D

Al 10000
19-02-2012, 17:41
Just had another look at the Red Lion in Crich which is listed as a normal pub.

To get into this pub will cost one adult £12 pounds and the museum that it is in only opens from 10 till 5 during peak times and is closed from 5 November till 17 February.

rpadam
19-02-2012, 18:23
Just had another look at the Red Lion in Crich which is listed as a normal pub.

To get into this pub will cost one adult £12 pounds and the museum that it is in only opens from 10 till 5 during peak times and is closed from 5 November till 17 February.
I just can't see what would be achieved by deleting this one.

It is clearly a pub (of a sort), and you don't have to pay to get in (although clearly you have to pay to get to it).

Since Quinno took the trouble to add the place, review it and take a couple of photographs, I would suggest that it ought to be left on the site (especially as his review makes it perfectly clear what the position is).

Al 10000
19-02-2012, 18:47
I was'nt asking for a deletion but i was making a point that this pub with a normal pub name is listed as a normal pub and in my opinion it is far from normal with restricted opening times,closures during winter months and a £12 pound charge to get to it.

Regarding Quinnos review he does say a charge is made but not how much or the restricted opening times.

Rex_Rattus
19-02-2012, 18:48
It is clearly a pub (of a sort), and you don't have to pay to get in (although clearly you have to pay to get to it).



A bit like airside airport bars then, which you obviously have to pay to get at (i.e. by purchasing a ticket from an airline) but don't have to pay to enter. Looks like a special case to me.

rpadam
19-02-2012, 18:52
A bit like airside airport bars then, which you obviously have to pay to get at (i.e. by purchasing a ticket from an airline) but don't have to pay to enter. Looks like a special case to me.Quite so, and I have previously put my head above the parapet a few times to advocate listing airside bars (as I believe doing so serves a useful purpose)...

Rex_Rattus
19-02-2012, 19:00
Quite so, and I have previously put my head above the parapet a few times to advocate listing airside bars (as I believe doing so serves a useful purpose)...

Definitely useful. And I've started to add directions from the security suite, which might be useful to the time-challenged traveller!

Pangolin
19-02-2012, 19:21
See my posts earlier or elsewhere about usefulness of Airport bar listing. Further support for what might be termed "museum pubs", eg specific pub recreations in museum premises, of which I have enjoyed a number. Quite agree that they should be clearly shown as inside a paid admission area, but they are undeniably pubs (and often better than those nearby!). But, as for airport bars, the usefulness is in knowing that they are there and worth visiting (or not!).

Soup Dragon
21-02-2012, 10:30
This is why i raised the issue - again!

I don't mind an airport bar, a museum pub, a club or hotel going on, as long as the RESTRICTED ACCESS is mentioned in an accompanying review (in other words SOMEONE has actually been there). Just putting them on to get another picture on the site isn't enough for this kind of place, whereas it clearly is for a general pub.

The GBG say that entry to a club is free if you carry a CAMRA card - great, you know you can go if either a member of the club, or a CAMRA member.

gillhalfpint
21-02-2012, 11:45
Well put Soupy. I will second that.