Re-use of glass

[Arthurish]

I was in a pub this lunch time, one of the regulars had a pint of real ale and I was having a pint of another. when he wanted another pint of the ale I was drinking, the person behind the bar used the same glass for the ale I was drinking.
Needless to say, I didn't have another in that pub. It wasn't even busy, so fresh glasses were available.
I thought all pubs knew that it was unhygenic to serve into a used glass, especially when it was from different taps.
what does the team think???

Thanks

Arthurish

[oldboots]

Usually a dirty southern habit, of course in the past the South had straight pipes on the handpumps and the pipe didn't normally touch the beer in the glass so the problem of germs in the glass mixing with beer and being transfered to the pump and so the next glass never happened. In the North the pipe was usually a long swan neck and went into the beer allowing the transfer of nastiness so a clean glass was used each time. In Scotland I believe the law still forbids the reuse of glasses for the same reason. Nowadays the long swan neck is everywhere so a fresh glass should always be used. I have been asked in pubs if the same glass was OK, to which I usually answer "yes no problem , as long as the whole pub wants to catch my herpes".

[Al 10000]

I agree with what you are saying but i have to admitt that if i am not offered a fresh glass when ordering a pint i dont complain about it i know i should but i dont.
If the beer was slightly off or and marks on the glass i would take it back straight away.

[rpadam]

Usually a dirty southern habit.
Down our way, the form is to be asked "Same glass?", to which the correct answer is traditionally "Yes” (unless you are changing from one beer to another)...

[Rex_Rattus]

You very rarely get the option to use the same glass even if you want to these days, at least in my experience (down south). Years ago it was the norm to use the same glass. I have to say that, perhaps naively, I was unaware of any health risks to others arising from the tap head being immersed in the beer being drawn through, but I can see how that might be the case even if the odds against it happening must be slim. Thanks for that ob - I sense a New Year's resolution emerging to be more fastidious in this respect.

Stretching the thread a little, I think it was Pubsignman who reviewed a pub engaging in a much worse 'elf n safety faux pas. In this pub the barman had filled a glass from the drip tray and served it up to some poor punter. This is beer that has probably run over the rim of the glass, down the outside of the glass, over the barman's fingers, and into the tray. It's probably flat (even by London standards!) by the time it's been in the drip tray for a while, and the health considerations are obvious. I would never accept a pint if I saw it served up to me like that, never mind how much the barman didn't like being called on it.

[Soup Dragon]

Down our way, the form is to be asked "Same glass?", to which the correct answer is traditionally "Yes” (unless you are changing from one beer to another)...

I actually agree with rpa here - i tend not to bother unless changing beer

As a midlander, i am more concerned with touching the bog door handle after people don't wash their hands after p*ssing than worrying about OB's herpes!

[Crossste]

Stretching the thread a little, I think it was Pubsignman who reviewed a pub engaging in a much worse 'elf n safety faux pas. In this pub the barman had filled a glass from the drip tray and served it up to some poor punter. This is beer that has probably run over the rim of the glass, down the outside of the glass, over the barman's fingers, and into the tray. It's probably flat (even by London standards!) by the time it's been in the drip tray for a while, and the health considerations are obvious. I would never accept a pint if I saw it served up to me like that, never mind how much the barman didn't like being called on it.

When beer is served using the autovac system this is almost inevitable. In its own way this is equivalent to drinking from the slops tray. Minimum of a clean glass is required but how long the barmans fingers are clean is another question.

Its amazing how much bad practice goes on behind bars fingers in clean glasses etc but then again we have all lived to tell the tale.

[arwkrite]

In my neck of the woods more people want their glass to be refilled than ask for a fresh one.
I am a slow drinker and prefer a fresh glass each time. This was commented on by one drinker who believed only a reused glass gave you the taste of the beer. The first pint removed any residual taste from the glass washer. Mind you, this chap was from Tamworth and hogging two tables.
The health and safety issue of swan necks has not occurred to me before but after this reading this thread I find myself checking the habits of my fellow drinkers.:sick:

[gillhalfpint]

When I return empties I often drop them off at one end of the bar, then go to the middle where the handpulls are to ask for my beer, and must admit I cannot recall ever being asked if I want to use the same glass.

A popular pub in Oxford had pint glasses standing in the drip trays. I watched how they were being used, and beer in them was being used as a top up for a fresh pulled pint. I thought ugh, and challenged why they were doing this. I said beer from one pump could have dribbled into the glasses as they were brought from another pump, flies could have walked the rim etc, and I was told that no glass is there for more than 10 - 15 minutes. I mentioned it on my stubbie to Oxford CAMRA, but haven't been in since to check if the practise continues.

I seem to recall years ago that drip trays got tipped into mild beer.

Something I don't like seeing is that after pulling the beer, the bar staff put their fingers round the top of the glass round the drinking area to pass it over the pumps when they serve you.

[Alesonly]

I don't usually get this problem as I always buy my next Pint when I'm around two thirds down the glass. This gives the Beer time too settle and warm slightly if the beers too cold like it is in the Spoons usually. :D

[aleandhearty]

These days I partly avoid the issue, as I tend to work across the pumps, with two halves of different beer on the go at any one time. Most local pubs use a fresh glass, but occasionally I have been given a choice. Until recently, if I was on the same beer, I didn't mind re-filling a used glass, but now I prefer a clean one every time.

[Farway]

Round here it normally fresh glass, or the "Same glass OK?" question. As I am also a slow drinker I opt for a fresh glass every time

The germs issue was one I was not really aware of TBH, maybe that's what gives me a headache some mornings? :whistle:

[Spinko]

I tend to appreciate it when I get a pint in the same glass. It seems right.

"Germs" don't carry as well as you'd think. It's more about how healthy you are as an individual anyway. If there is a virulent bug about you're going to get it any road. Always good to keep your immune system prepped.

[Strongers]

Fresh glass everytime except if the pub is heaving and the staff are pouring into glasses straight from the dishwasher. This is nothing to do with hygiene, I just like a clean glass.

Talking of hygiene, my mum used to work in the Cambridge Arms in Kingston (some on here may remember it), but it is now closed) and I used to go to work with her in the school holidays when I was about 7 or 8 (1982/83). I can remember standing behind the bar cleaning the glasses on a spinning rag with bristles that trickled with water. does anyone remember these as I've not seen one since and imagine that they have probably been banned for health reasons.

[Oggwyn Trench]

Fresh glass everytime except if the pub is heaving and the staff are pouring into glasses straight from the dishwasher. This is nothing to do with hygiene, I just like a clean glass.

Talking of hygiene, my mum used to work in the Cambridge Arms in Kingston (some on here may remember it), but it is now closed) and I used to go to work with her in the school holidays when I was about 7 or 8 (1982/83). I can remember standing behind the bar cleaning the glasses on a spinning rag with bristles that trickled with water. does anyone remember these as I've not seen one since and imagine that they have probably been banned for health reasons.

They were common round here till a few years ago , last one i remember seeing was in my old local the Blue Pig , Trench about 3 years ago

[gillhalfpint]

I used to work behind a bar in the mid 70's and the washer was similar. Used to push glasses up and down over a revolving mophead type thing in water. Sounds foul now doesn't it.

[Conrad]

I have to admit this is all news to me. In the past I have been bemused to get a clean glass when I have taken my glass back to the bar and handed it to the bar staff as I made my order, interesting to hear there is a reason.

My off the cuff feeling is that if you are worried about germs from backwash into a pump then you are not drinking a strong enough beer ;)

[ptg]

It's our policy not to re-use glasses. This causes me at least two arguments a week with new customers who choose for whatever reason to be as cocky as possible; one of whom about a year ago screamed at me (the "ba**tard authoritarian", I believe I was called),then made a point of pouring his beer in to the original glass, whilst wasting half a pint over my nice clean bar - needless to say he wasn't allowed to stay and drink it.

I don't do it for any particular health and safety reason. I do it because its' how I was taught 12+ years ago, and it's stuck. The original reason for fresh glasses was simple; when my old boss filtered back the drip trays each night, he ran less risk of spoiling the beer if there was minimal contamination. The most we'll do here on the subject of waste is give the chef a drip tray after a barrel change to filter down and use in a pie; which on my travels is reasonably common practice.

[Eddie86]

It's our policy not to re-use glasses. This causes me at least two arguments a week with new customers who choose for whatever reason to be as cocky as possible; one of whom about a year ago screamed at me (the "ba**tard authoritarian", I believe I was called),then made a point of pouring his beer in to the original glass, whilst wasting half a pint over my nice clean bar - needless to say he wasn't allowed to stay and drink it.

I don't do it for any particular health and safety reason. I do it because its' how I was taught 12+ years ago, and it's stuck. The original reason for fresh glasses was simple; when my old boss filtered back the drip trays each night, he ran less risk of spoiling the beer if there was minimal contamination. The most we'll do here on the subject of waste is give the chef a drip tray after a barrel change to filter down and use in a pie; which on my travels is reasonably common practice.

An excellent way not to waste ale - one we follow too. I don't mind serving in the same glass - using a swan neck it just means 1) no sparkler and 2) the swan neck doesn't go into the glass, but is poured like a lager would be. Keeps everyone happy

[ROBCamra]

The most we'll do here on the subject of waste is give the chef a drip tray after a barrel change to filter down and use in a pie; which on my travels is reasonably common practice.

Can you still claim ullage on that as well? If you can it's a double bonus. ;)

[ptg]

Claim ullage? you're havin' a bubble mate.. We can barely claim a genuine amount for wastage nowadays :(

[runningdog]

Have to say, I reckon if you're drinking alcohol you've taken all the 'elf and safety measures you need. Listening, sorry, reading, to what many of you have to say it makes me wonder how the hell the human race got this far. After all, in times past, one of the reasons folk drank beer, wine, spirits etc was to kill the nasties in the water supply.
I really don't care, fresh glass or me used one, although generally I prefer the latter, if I got a good pint first time round then I've just taken another variable out of the equation.
It's always got me through so far.........
:drinkup::drinkup::drinkup:

[arwkrite]

RD has a point . These days we clean with antiseptics and antibacterials killing off both good and bad bugs. The world has become abit too clean with nothing to oppose new strains of bad bugs.
When I was a kid really hard types of 10 year olds would prove themselves by eating garden worms or snails, uncooked of course. Sadly I never made the grade but I don't remember there ever being any fatalities. It would probably put the little darlings in hospital these days.
Any doubts stick to bottles or spirits. After all you don't want to end up in hospital where you could catch something really nasty or perhaps starve to death. Flu jab anybody ?

[Brewguru]

Have to say, I reckon if you're drinking alcohol you've taken all the 'elf and safety measures you need. Listening, sorry, reading, to what many of you have to say it makes me wonder how the hell the human race got this far. After all, in times past, one of the reasons folk drank beer, wine, spirits etc was to kill the nasties in the water supply.
I really don't care, fresh glass or me used one, although generally I prefer the latter, if I got a good pint first time round then I've just taken another variable out of the equation.
It's always got me through so far.........
:drinkup::drinkup::drinkup:

Indeed, beer is boiled to death before fermentation and so there should be no microorganisms present. Yeast is then added which quickly start fermentation and become the dominant microbe. Hence beer was always safer than water to drink in the old days before chlorination (and probably still is in some parts of the world).

It ends up being at a pH of around 3.9 -4.1 which is quite acidic and does rot your teeth, it also means that most pathenogenic bugs such as E Coli and Salmonella won't survive in beer. You do get beer spoilage organisms such as acetic acid bacteria (vinegar), diacetyl (butterscotch) infections, lactic acid bacteria (sour) and wild yeast (TCP) to name a few, none of which will harm you, just makes your pint unpleasant. Years ago beer would have been vinuous which means it had actually been infected with other bugs (e.g (Bretanomyces Yeast) some Belgian beers and Old ales actually are the closest we get to this nowadays.

So very little beer related stuff would make you very ill unless something goes horribly wrong. However as has been said there is always a chance of infection from one dirty glass to a swan neck to the next pint drawn so on that basis it'd have to be a clean glass for everyone evertime. Bugs could definitely survive long enough to infect you this way. As for the drip trays any beer in those would be rank, flat and oxidised so only useful for cooking. God forbid anyone ever pours it back into a barrel (and I have seen funnels on top of cask shives in cellars - why else would they be there, fining ? I think not)

[runningdog]

[QUOTE=Brewguru;26422]However as has been said there is always a chance of infection from one dirty glass to a swan neck to the next pint drawn so on that basis it'd have to be a clean glass for everyone evertime. Bugs could definitely survive long enough to infect you this way QUOTE]

The thing that troubles is me is the modern twisting of the words, chance, might, may and could into the definitive 'will'. It's long odds they won't, and the more you prep your system the longer those odds become.
Come on, lads and lasses, you're human beings and human beings are tough and resiliant. Most 'threats' to your health are prompted by either the profit motive or the modern, despicable litigious state of mind.

[oldboots]

It's long odds they won't, and the more you prep your system the longer those odds become.
Come on, lads and lasses, you're human beings and human beings are tough and resiliant.

Being almost as old as RD and Arky I have always been in the "eat a bit of muck to make you immune" camp and the old saying is "we all eat a peck* of dirt before we die" BUT I have to say when I lived in the south and drank out of dirty reused glasses I used to get sore throats the next day which I don't get oop north. I'm not saying it was from transfered bacteria it could equally be bad washing of glasses, or unwashed barstaff contaminating the glass, after all the dirtiest thing in a pub is usually the cash as someone pointed out somewhere; if only the dirtiest thing in the pub was the barmaid :love:

* a peck is TWO GALLONS :eek:

[trainman]

It shouldn't, in this case, be a question of what each punter wants, as it is that punter's spittle (or whatever) that may end up in the next customer's glass.
I used to keep my glass long ago, but now believe that it should be the law to use a clean glass for all drinkers, every time. And I think it now is.

[NickDavies]

It ends up being at a pH of around 3.9 -4.1 which is quite acidic and does rot your teeth, it also means that most pathenogenic bugs such as E Coli and Salmonella won't survive in beer.

E-coli, which is the usual suspect when poor personal hygeine is involved is perfectly happy with gastric acid, which is around pH 1-2, ie 1000-10,000 times as acidic as beer. A quick scout round the web suggests beer is a fair culture medium and that alcohol concentrations up to 5% will only inhibit growth, rather than prevent it or kill the bugs outright. Indeed it would do quite well in sweet, weak, warm dark mild; perhaps not so well in something strong, freezing cold and devoid of any nutrients, like Wifebeater.

I'll have a clean glass please.

[Brewguru]

[QUOTE=NickDavies;26449]E-coli, which is the usual suspect when poor personal hygeine is involved is perfectly happy with gastric acid, which is around pH 1-2, ie 1000-10,000 times as acidic as beer. A quick scout round the web suggests beer is a fair culture medium and that alcohol concentrations up to 5% will only inhibit growth, rather than prevent it or kill the bugs outright. Indeed it would do quite well in sweet, weak, warm dark mild; perhaps not so well in something strong, freezing cold and devoid of any nutrients, like Wifebeater.

Hmmm, fair point. My angle was the beer in the cask / keg / bottle is more or less guaranteed bug free, and if not they wouldn't prosper anyway. If barstaff don't wash their hands properly theres not alot any of us can do about it.
Might have to stick to drinking brewdog's double IPA, enough alcohol and hops in that to nuke everything!

Tandleman's blog has something similar to the direction of this thread http://tandlemanbeerblog.blogspot.com/2011/01/filtering-back.html