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Conrad
05-10-2009, 12:08
Just glancing through yesterdays reviews (sterling performances from Arwkrite (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/userinfo.php?name=arwkrite) and Ga Andrews (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/userinfo.php?name=ArchieGa)). I have just deleted a review by a new member on the site for mentioning being accosted outside by the drug fueled tramps. For reviews this is at the lighter end of the spectrum, having previously had drug selling and other less savoury suggestions about landlords.

Was interested to hear what others thought though. We have now reached the point where if you mention drugs in the review it is going to be deleted (that is not a challenge :p).

In fact in general we will just delete negative reviews particularly off 1/2 droppers. It is a sad thing to do that, in that I think you should be able to review negatively, but it is just stupid coming on our site if you have an axe to grind, we don't want to deal with the wound up landlords, it just wastes our time and stresses them and us. Oh and if there are drugs on or near the premises, tell the Police, not us.

Anyway just an invitation to suggest what is right about reviews and amuse yourselves with what you hate in reviews. I may rip off good suggestions for when I build the review guidelines as suggested by Archivist as well.

Filo
05-10-2009, 12:51
How about a new parrallel web site called "Drugs Galore"? Users could review Pharmacy's throughout the country and send in Photo's... They could talk about different cold remedies or anelgesics, maybe reccommend the best places to get a little glass jar of extra strength Vic chest Rub? Naturally any one who mentions alcohol will have their review deleted, with the exception of Gripe Water of course.

I wonder how some Pharmacists would react to having their Chemist shop photographed?

"eer Matey, whats your game taking snap shots of my chemists shop?"

"oh.. er... its all right its just a sort of hobby, I like to record all the Chemist shops I.... er... visit on holiday"

"Well bugger off, and take your Gross box of laxatives with you" :D

Soup Dragon
05-10-2009, 12:56
Yes, abusive because it suggest illegal activity and plain personal abuse should be expunged. Reviews that fail to mention the decorative use of twigs should get a warning!

I have a couple of negative reviews to write shortly for places i really didnt like, however, i will try to explain why and use a little humour. We have the right to dislike and say so, but the review needs to retain credablity for it to mean anything, these people that post once to slag off (or indeed hyper-praise) actually do no favours to themselves, as people will see through it.

If you disagree with another poster, you dont call them a W****r, you just say you disagree and explain why - simples!

Farway
05-10-2009, 13:04
I must admit to mentioning drugs in one review, but only in relation to a notice saying "drugs will not be tolerated and will be reported to police"

The reason I mentioned it was that to me the sign was indicative that perhaps drug users could be around the pub as I have not seen this sign in all pubs, so I mentioned it as a sort of guide to the pub, in much same way as I mention large screen TV with Sky sports, or 3 TV sets, or spotless loos, or special student prices, and latterly disabled toilets

To my mind it gives a someone a chance to consider if the pub could be what they are looking for, except the drugs of course :D

By negative reviews are we to take it poor service, duff beer or food and dirty toilets should not be mentioned?

If so can we agree on a symbol of perhaps a gagged face, or one of the 3 monkeys speaking no evil [just joking here]

What is a 1/2 dropper? Have I missed something? :confused:

Soup Dragon
05-10-2009, 13:25
class suggestion filo - hilarious

I have sometimes mentioned drug signs - but i think its about context - you are reporting what the pub want you to see, rather than making judgments about illegal activites. Sadly, it remains legal to sell bad beer and be a chav, therefore we have the right to mention it:D

Conrad
05-10-2009, 14:19
We are definitely less likely to delete a review from a recognised user, for a number of reasons, probably the most significant being we feel a lot more loyalty towards someone who is contributing than someone who is not.

Mentioning drugs sign is fine - personally I would be reticent to interpret that, just report you saw it.

I think negative reviews are as important as positive ones, where a user has numerous reviews it gives you a sense of what they like (or not). I think if you can though, doing it with humour, being as clear as you can that this was your opinion on the day, and trying to see what someone might like are all worthwhile.

Also for me if all you want to do is moan about a few pubs I don't really want you here. The primary target of this site is to be successful, but underneath that I would rather we were supporting pubs, if we can get a few pubs a bit more trade, fantastic. If we put a few pubs out of business by slagging them off, bad.

I think if we write new user guidelines for the site I would say review a few pubs you like and say what you like about them before you get going, or risk your reviews being deleted out of hand.

Anyone who has survived reading all that as well, we are constantly evolving our thinking, so if you disagree with anything, just say.

Soup Dragon
05-10-2009, 14:40
Its all about context - even for a one-time poster. If you give reasons then others will read it. I have had a right go at the Star, Burntwood, but do finish saying younger people will like it more. Just wait for the Ring O'Bells after you put it on the site!!!!

Filo
05-10-2009, 15:41
Negative reviews are a must for this site. If you can't warn people off the really naf pubs then whats the point? The idea of being positive about every pub would sound a bit New Labourish, in that every comment has to be politically correct. So it's wise to have negative reviews if they are objective. There are one or two places I know of I wouldn't dream of going into ever again or suggesting anyone else ever visits. If some Landlords don't like it they should clean up their act.

arwkrite
05-10-2009, 15:53
Being a dedicated people watcher with big ears ( or Nosey Old Git) I often observe drug transactions in all types of pubs , not all are scruffy ,ill managed, city or sink estate establishments. I have been approached by prostitutes in reputable hotel bars and holiday resorts. In one city bar three young lads openly split the proceeds of a shop robbery until approached by four disreputable individuals who wanted the money.Thinking we were caught up in a gang war we made ready to leave until some one flashed a warrant card and buried one of the lads faces into a wooden table with a satisfying smack. That Copper must be a fan of The Sweeney, bless him.
I happened on a well known pub/eatery on the outskirts of Bristol where a large party of a certain ethnic type were holding court. Drug dealing of all types was being carried on openly even to the point of being approached by the dealer.One of their sweet children even bothered to throw a brick at the car as a parting gesture.
All classes of people take illegal drugs and I make no excuses for them .I have even been accused of being in the same group because I drink alcohol.It is said the top of toilet cisterns in Westminster Palace all have traces of cocaine on them.
I can recognise the smell of marijuana and thats everywhere in pubs now.In my extended family there are regular users. Where as they would not drink and drive they think nothing wrong in driving while smoking during or after smoking a spliff.
Living in a rural area does not have the dangers associated with drugs that the big cities have such as gang dominated dealing.Our local Community support copper got sacked for drug dealing. Nothing surprises me now so I dont bother.

Conrad
05-10-2009, 16:29
I'm not sure about the never doing negative reviews thing. As I have said elsewhere, better to win business for a good pub than lose business for a bad one. I am guessing many of you think even better to do both however :).

To the best of my memory we haven't deleted a review by anyone with more than 5 reviews on the site, we have however ended up deleting the pub when the publican made complaints about the review and we refused to remove the review.

Out of interest, what would you like us to do in the event a publican sending us a strongly worded letter about a bad review?

Also for 1 shot bad reviewers, we have had some fantastic nightmares, the worst of which being someone who left what sounded like a perfectly reasonable bad review. At least it seemed perfectly reasonable until the publican contacted us and made a very compelling case that it couldn't be about them. (I trust our regular reviewers to be more competent on that front).

Farway
05-10-2009, 16:35
Having read some of the comments re drugs & pubs, especially arwkrite's above I can only assume I have led a sheltered life, despite 11 years in the Navy

Or maybe it is just the part of the country I live in & time of day I visit pubs? I can honestly say I have no idea what the smell of marijuana is like, or perhaps I do not recognise it & drug dealing under my nose?

Anyway, I shall continue reporting on pubs, good bits & bad bits alike, with fuller explanations now we have more space, space was a very limiting factor before, so brief pithiness was required back then

Soup Dragon
05-10-2009, 16:40
Yes, Farway, i am very innocent too - last thing i whinged about was four teens splitting a choccy sundae, not shooting up in the bog!

PaulOfHorsham
05-10-2009, 17:23
Conrad,

what would you like us to do in the event a publican sending us a strongly worded letter about a bad review?

Well, it does depend on the nature of the complaint (after all, you don't really need too much hassle in all this), but my inclination is to publish it as another review of the pub, unless you think that might just be regarded as further incitement.

Out of interest, assuming the offending review was from a 'regular', would you contact the reviewer for their comments?

paul

Conrad
05-10-2009, 17:46
Hi paul,

A solid reply.

Historically our behaviour is:

For a 1 hit reviewer, just offer to delete the review on the basis they clearly had an axe to grind and aren't contributing anything. Where this hasn't been enough, we will delete the pub and blacklist it (stop it being re-added) on the basis that the publican is clearly unwilling to be involved in this sort of a forum (the PG web site that is). Personally I think a publican is mad to not want to be listed, it is free advertising, although arguably it is not worth it to them if people are just going to come along and slander them.

For a regular reviewer we refuse to do anything (assuming the review sounds solid), but offer to forward on their correspondence to the reviewer, so the reviewer can then make their own decision if it was too strongly worded or if they want to debate it with the landlord. To be clear we would not hand out the email address of the reviewer to the landlord. So far I think this has only happened once, and that was to a good friend and the publican requested that we forward it on in the initial communication. That one related to the fact that the pub had changed personality and was actually looking for a different custom - for me in that instance the publican handled it very professionally. We have however had to blacklist pubs because they weren't happy for us to just try and mediate it, as has been mentioned in another thread.

Amusingly we had a landlord phoning us on and off throughout 1 day promising litigation because of a review on our site. Having promised the litigation he phoned us up again as the review was being cached on Google (something we can do nothing about really) so he was going to litigate us (a somewhat empty threat as he had already assured us this was happening in the initial call). All this led to a blacklisting, 2 weeks later he tried to resubmit the pub with a glowing review (it wasn't allowed on). Strangely when you deal with this sort of rant you are inclined to think that the original reviewer was on to something.

I do like your suggestion of printing their comment against the pub and will keep it in mind. For the moment I have to admit that we will probably follow the path of least resistance. As the site is not profitable we can't afford legal battles. Once the site becomes profitable that may change, although it is an interesting challenge as our plans rely on the site in some way being financed by publicans (hopefully they will get something in return). I am guessing if as a site you carry a reputation for slagging off publicans they are not going to be so keen to pay you however.

It is interesting stuff, and I do welcome all your inputs

Apologies for the biblical post,

Conrad

arwkrite
05-10-2009, 17:54
Tobaccos have a distinctive smell and flavour according to the areas they come from but none smell like marijuana. Users mix it with tobacco thinking it hides the smell or to just eek out their supply. Not many I know use it neat.
Ordinary Tobaccos burn with an acrid smell, marijuana has a sweet herby smell like a slow smoking bonfire on a summers evening. Lawd ,Arwkrites waxing lyrical again. I am sure if you hunt around enough of you friends and acquaintances some one will show you. Its that common.

I packed in the ciggies over 15 years ago and never smoked dope,not even when I went off with the elves and fairies ( nerv. breakdown ) and everyone and his mother was offering it me , even down the old folks home. This is in a small rural town...it must be the boredom.

Farway
05-10-2009, 17:55
I agree with Paul here, post as response unless deemed petrol on a fire

The same happens with credit reports, if the person considers item incorrect then a note is added to report stating under dispute, this is available to any organisation running a credit check, and they can make up their own minds on the matter

From experience, no contact made with reviewer [me and one pub, pub now blacklisted]

However I see nothing wrong in not contacting me, Dave & Conrad have no need, or I suspect time, to be piggy in the middle over a disputed posting, but I think that perhaps a PM to regular poster that review disputed, and take it from there, delete review or change it?

Conrad
05-10-2009, 17:58
Ordinary Tobaccos burn with an acrid smell, marijuana has a sweet herby smell like a slow smoking bonfire on a summers evening.

It always leave me with an itchy nose whenever I smell it as well. Like yourself I know a few users and have been caught by it passively at parties before now.

Thankfully alcohol is enough for me and I tend to think easier to get, although not if you ask some people.

Conrad
05-10-2009, 18:01
... but I think that perhaps a PM to regular poster that review disputed, and take it from there, delete review or change it?
With the forums now active, and I think me and Dave learning to communicate with the community a lot better I believe this will happen.

Conrad
06-10-2009, 12:42
And as if by magic I get an example (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/37350/) - early warning this may be removed.

On the surface I have no problem with that review. I don't understand however why the user who is clearly able to write and has an opinion couldn't have written a few reviews about pubs they liked :mad:.

As it is I think they had a crap night at that pub for whatever reason and have decided to have a spiteful swipe at them in the easiest way they could find. The review has no context as we don't know where they consider good. Also were we to get the publican sending legal notice that they were lying we don't know this person from Jack at the moment so it is possible they are just lying.

I am interested to hear whether that is a useful use for the site, please feel free to put your own slant on it as I am being very blatant about mine.

edit: And the less said about this review (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/34189/) the better :D. ( I have to admit to laughing as I read it based on the fact I had just moaned about another review). Just to say though, for me that review is fine, because Archivist has demonstrated they have positive as well as negative opinions.

Soup Dragon
06-10-2009, 12:55
Yes, it is difficult. I know the pub, though i have not visited, as yet. As you say, the writer has composed a review that an account of his experience, without the use of bad language. He has supplied no other reviews to give a context, nor are there any other reviews of the pub.

Need to PM you on this

Conrad
06-10-2009, 13:17
Need to PM you on thisReceived and read. Thanks a lot for that.

arwkrite
06-10-2009, 13:28
It sounds like the cafe in " Last of the Summer Wine ". I have heard of similar things happening when my mates have organised an evening buffet at a pub on returning from watching rugby at Cardiff. Which is a mistake because they are proffessional micky takers.Their week end at a Blackpool Hotel was hilarious. The food and drink was that bad they sent out for fish and chips together with crates of beer.This was consumed in the hotel bar accompanied by the harpy like shrieks of the land lady . It was generaly agreed she was more entertaining than the comedian whose jokes had all been heard before.

Conrad
06-10-2009, 13:33
It sounds like the cafe in " Last of the Summer Wine ". I have heard of similar things happening when my mates have organised an evening buffet at a pub on returning from watching rugby at Cardiff. Which is a mistake because they are proffessional micky takers.Their week end at a Blackpool Hotel was hilarious. The food and drink was that bad they sent out for fish and chips together with crates of beer.This was consumed in the hotel bar accompanied by the harpy like shrieks of the land lady . It was generaly agreed she was more entertaining than the comedian whose jokes had all been heard before.
:D

Brilliant, that is the way to make your point.

Soup Dragon
06-10-2009, 13:35
the ring o'bells and the star, burntwood - i opted for the humour value otherwise i could just lose it!

arwkrite
06-10-2009, 16:52
Some pubs are beyond belief whether its the way they are run, the idiosyncrasies of the customers or the strange behaviour of the licencee/s. I must admit I am good at visual observation but barbed comments often pass me bye. This is probably because after 30 years in a machine shop I suffer from industrial deafness.I rarely hear muttered threats or sarcastic asides. Basil Fawlty would fail to get a rise out of me.

A pub has to be seriously bad for me to get scathing. Bad Beer or Food without recompense or bad /rude attitude to complaints about such will guarantee a scorcher.
I know I look at pubs differently to Archivist. So many of the pubs I visit are modern pubs with the facilities we require as certain. As much as we like them small old fashioned pubs rarely have them .
This means I often visit pubs like the one in Burntwood and would review it differently. If no one tried nicking the wheels off the motor or the wheel chair I would probably look at it in a positive nature. Should the pub not have real ale I may pick a keg beer or lager but more likely, these days, share a bottle of wine. I realise my viewpoint can be from a very different angle.

Soup Dragon
06-10-2009, 17:06
I know I look at pubs differently to Archivist

Never mind, son, you cant be right all of the time:p

Seriously, thats the beauty of it. I repect your opinion as a regular, it doesnt matter whether you agree with mine, or not. I am open about what i like and i dont have to say sorry for not liking stacks of wood, twigs in vases, or whatever. I too drink keg MILD if there is nothing else (indeed, sometimes i prefer a keg MILD to their real ale choice), i drink port as well!

It would be a sad world if we all liked the same!

Conrad
06-10-2009, 17:30
Absolutely, there is space for different opinions and likes of pubs, for me though this is why the positive reviews are so important.

There has been a background suggestion that maybe the first 5 reviews should be moderated with the proviso that negative reviews may be rejected, which seems to me to be a fairly good solution.

Still interested in all opinions here, I am in no way saying I am right, just trying to make a case, so let me know if there is a way you want to see it done. :)

And I am still grinning at Arwkrites mates, what a great way of getting back at bad service :D

Oggwyn Trench
06-10-2009, 18:08
If we all liked the same sort of pubs , what a boring place it would be .
I also drink Port , Vintage when i can afford it but a good ruby will do , and white port is fantastic .
On a cold day if your feeling brave , get a pint of Guiness , drink half , then top up with a bottle of Barley Wine and a double Port , Gorgeous if a bit loopy.:p

Soup Dragon
06-10-2009, 20:47
forgive me Oggy, i wish to remain sober a little longer than one drink -

after all......

reports won't write themselves

arwkrite
06-10-2009, 23:22
I have drank Guiness and Port...Great...Real smooth.

Got p*ss*d on barley wine as a youngster, collapsed straight down onto the toilet bowel and bust all my ribs....NEVER AGAIN !!!!

Its nice to know we have a league of liberal and open minded drinkers on this forum. We all have likes and dislikes and drink whatever for our own reasons.

I raise a glass in respect to All of You.....(.whose is this pint of mild 'ere?):D

Soup Dragon
06-10-2009, 23:29
Its nice to know we have a league of liberal and open minded drinkers on this forum. We all have likes and dislikes and drink whatever for our own reasons.

I raise a glass in respect to All of You.....(.whose is this pint of mild 'ere?):D

I am very liberal and open minded, but if you touch my MILD again, i'll have your hands on a spike

did a couple more Brownhills pubs tonight - shocking, Mr A

Farway
07-10-2009, 14:14
I have just looked on BITE at the reviews there, same poster has copied it there, all other reviews there are glowing, so one must assume a crap night provoked the posting

Regarding bringing own food in to eat, The Market House Tavern in Portsmouth offers to let you phone for a take away to eat there as the pub does not do food, I considered this a "nice touch" and said so in my review at the time
http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/13585/

Perhaps one way, which would need a bit more work for Dave & Conrad, could be to stop negative first time post until say 2 positive ones made, five may be pushing it, maybe they are not regular pub goers, just Christmas & works outing in a charabanc to Brighton for instance

PS, aagin more work, but I note a regular contributor, David Johnston, took the photos, and has submitted reviews of over 40 pubs, maybe ask if he has been in an, or pop in next time & submit review?

Thinking on, if first time poster writes bad review, perhaps hold it and see if regular reviewer locally could have a look as a favour? Getting all a bit "local reppy" now, so may not be worthwhile and more bother than it is worth, any thoughts on it?

Conrad
07-10-2009, 14:59
Keep in mind this is an example, I am not too worried about it and the solution is not for us to promote people to double check with BITES reviews :).

Holding over reviews is a possibility, and as I have to rewrite all that code anyway, may well be a sensible one. As to how many we should hold over, if someone thinks one pub is good and one pub is bad (taking your 2 review limit to heart here) then personally I would rather they just posted the 1 good review and forgot the other.

Having another member check the pub isn't really the answer for me, just more work and there is an objectivity issue. Although I am open to the concept of local reps.

Trying to cut to the heart of this for me, as a 1 drop review, does that review contribute anything to the site? And if I deleted it what would be lost from the site?

All good debating points though, I welcome anyones additions thoughts on them.

Conrad
27-10-2009, 16:28
Well just had to delete another 1 drop review.

Review actually read relatively well although made no redeaming points about the venue, and reviewer had left no other reviews to indicate they were if good character and had anything other than bad opinions.

The landlord just sent us a well worded complaint stating they wanted it removed, and explaining the situation. They remained polite if slightly ranty, but who can blame them as their business is being impugned.

I hate dealing with these as you have no idea who is right really, but it just seems doubly pointless if the reviewer hasn't bothered to say anything good about anything. :mad:

hopwas
29-10-2009, 00:29
That pub Star Inn, Burntwood..

Oh dear.. my ex girlfriend actually lives opposite it! I mean perfect opposite! It is bit rough and all rite pub.. only visited twice.

Soup Dragon
29-10-2009, 12:06
That pub Star Inn, Burntwood..

Oh dear.. my ex girlfriend actually lives opposite it! I mean perfect opposite! It is bit rough and all rite pub.. only visited twice.

Its just an Ember Inn - which i find all the same, and just not my thing - yet they are packed out - its just my miserable nature!

Will be a bit quiet for a few more days, Conrad - the room with my pc in at home is rammed out with stuff as we are moving things around - still got 30 reports from chester, yet!

hopwas
29-10-2009, 12:13
Its just an Ember Inn - which i find all the same, and just not my thing - yet they are packed out - its just my miserable nature!

Will be a bit quiet for a few more days, Conrad - the room with my pc in at home is rammed out with stuff as we are moving things around - still got 30 reports from chester, yet!

Is it now Ember Inn now? Hmmm may visit there one day.

Conrad
29-10-2009, 12:20
Will be a bit quiet for a few more days, Conrad - the room with my pc in at home is rammed out with stuff as we are moving things around - still got 30 reports from chester, yet!

Does this mean I need to work more and not chat away on the forum? ;)

Soup Dragon
29-10-2009, 12:25
Is it now Ember Inn now? Hmmm may visit there one day.

read my report!

Soup Dragon
29-10-2009, 12:26
Does this mean I need to work more and not chat away on the forum? ;)

You - Work - thats a laff!:muppet:

Conrad
29-10-2009, 14:19
Tccccch, you have changed your title, and there was me enjoying the 4 match losing streak that Rovers were going through whilst you were their mascot.

bzylzy
29-10-2009, 14:32
I seem to be lagging behind in my computer skills these days all this blogging and twittering seems to be over my head and as for Drug usage in or around pubs I afraid I am too busy thinking about what ale to be sampling when I walk into a pub, If the pumps have great ales and the ladies toilets are clean OK ,(if the bar staff are miserable I smile, say thank you) then I find a corner and squat and have a conservation and are oblivious to my surroundings,if none of the above apply or If it gets too boisterous , I simply walk out to the next watering hole.

Conrad
29-10-2009, 14:57
Hi Liz,

Glad to see you in the forums again. Liz has previously tried to bring some life into the forums, and is half of one of the PG legends of picture taking (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?t=425).

I would have to say you certainly seem adept enough and computers, it is interesting to see how many people on the forums aren't interested in the Twittering and blogging aspects of the Internet, I'm not sure if that tells me that they aren't as much use in this trade or we just aren't making them interesting enough yet.

As to drugs, I keep on just missing whoever has been smoking them on the top deck of my bus into work recently.

Conrad

hopwas
29-10-2009, 16:45
read my report!

Just read your report.. Wow it has changed quite a lot since my last visit in turn of the century. Still I intend go there one day as it has changed hands. I am quite picky cos i always go to back to pub if it has changed hands even through I have visited it before :)

Soup Dragon
29-10-2009, 17:01
Just read your report.. Wow it has changed quite a lot since my last visit in turn of the century. Still I intend go there one day as it has changed hands. I am quite picky cos i always go to back to pub if it has changed hands even through I have visited it before :)

Good man - i believe you should always go back if it has changed hands and it's safe to do so!

Hi Liz - its really fantastic to hear from you - its people like you and hubby that give a lot of inspiration to the more junior members, like me. Really hope you both drop by more.

arwkrite
30-10-2009, 21:26
Spent nearly all day in Hereford but did not take one photo ( hangs head in shame).Really should make more of these chances my Mrs stay in bed has presented me with. How else can I become a Super Legend if I keep falling down on the job. A case of more self flagellation I think, leastways I think thats what I mean.

Eddie86
30-10-2009, 23:45
Spent nearly all day in Hereford but did not take one photo ( hangs head in shame).Really should make more of these chances my Mrs stay in bed has presented me with. How else can I become a Super Legend if I keep falling down on the job. A case of more self flagellation I think, leastways I think thats what I mean.

Makes you go blind, that. Should have said - I was in Hereford this afternoon doing Cash & Carry, always time for discovering new beers to sell :d:muppet:

Conrad
11-11-2009, 16:25
And the latest nomination for a skimming close to the wind review (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/64073/).

Shame really as it is a work of art if I am honest, we'll sit back and see if they add any more reviews, I would really like to see what they write about pubs they like (including their own).

Edit, just had recourse to communicate with this member as they dropped feedback, I took the opportunity to ask them to leave more reviews, so hopefully we can see some decent reviews.

Soup Dragon
11-11-2009, 16:33
We'll have to get Inspector Farway on the case - see what he thinks!

oldboots
11-11-2009, 17:21
As it's a pub review site I'd like to see some mention of the beer which is after all the raison d'etre for a pub. I've nothing against people reviewing the culinary side of a pub and I don't mind negative reviews if that was the experience as long as people are truthful and comprehensive in reviews. :moremad:


I agree this chap writes well and I'd like to see more from him. I am surprised the White Horse let him down although it's a few years since I've been there it is (was?) rather a legendary pub down that way. I remember a friend falling in the "pog" (half pond, half bog) in the garden there, ah happy days.

Conrad
11-11-2009, 17:35
I think there are a few things there.

The White Horse may just have been having a particularly bad day. It is a problem this site suffers, people tend not to review unless they can see a review consequently we don't get anywhere like enough reviews, and it is only by getting a good balance that you can really judge a pub. I think this is changing though, the forum members are more than doing their part to get things moving and we are seeing an increase in people willing to review due to the dedicated members efforts.

As to beers, I think in a lot of ways this is partly our fault, I want to add more beer features, so a member can pick the beers they saw at the pub, sadly there is so much work I would like to do that that work is a long way off, but it would be nice to have.

Soup Dragon
11-11-2009, 18:09
Hi Conrad - wouldnt picking icons be as much trouble as simply writing the things down in the report?

Conrad
11-11-2009, 18:24
I don't want to get too carried away as it isn't happening any time soon but... I would like it so that you can type the beer names in and it will try and guess them, ideally this would be set by the Publicans so that they can change them as they change their guest beers. Also the potential then exists for members to review the beers as well as the pubs, or find nearest pubs selling Mild.

As I say, very pie in the sky at the moment.

oldboots
11-11-2009, 18:26
I don't think you could have a pick list of beers, it would be huge :)

You could have icons for pub facilities/features e.g. barrel for real ale, soccer ball for sports pub, beard and sandals for a tickers pub, knife and fork for food served, head up ar*e for gastropub, twig for pretentious decor, yawning head for a boring pub, skull & crossbones for keg only :D

Soup Dragon
11-11-2009, 18:32
I don't think you could have a pick list of beers, it would be huge :)

You could have icons for pub facilities/features e.g. barrel for real ale, soccer ball for sports pub, beard and sandals for a tickers pub, knife and fork for food served, head up ar*e for gastropub, twig for pretentious decor, yawning head for a boring pub, skull & crossbones for keg only :D

OB, have you ever thought of editing the Good Pub Guide - you are a natural

oldboots
11-11-2009, 18:42
OB, have you ever thought of editing the Good Pub Guide - you are a natural

Nah, I'd just get stuck on doing the research, :glass::glass::glass:

Alas all the paper guides and I think at least one internet review site, have their own set of generally boring symbols already, I think we could do better with the massive talents assembled here.

They do serve a useful purpose so it's not a strange idea maybe just a bit jaded.

Conrad
11-11-2009, 18:50
The icons will definitely come (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?t=555), just a case of making it a discreet set and not getting carried away.

I think we may have to gloss over the head up a**e one however, maybe just use the Pubs Galore logo (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?t=575) instead :mad:

Soup Dragon
11-11-2009, 18:53
The icons will definitely come (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?t=555), just a case of making it a discreet set and not getting carried away.

I think we may have to gloss over the head up a**e one however, maybe just use the Pubs Galore logo (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?t=575) instead :mad:

That would scare the hell out of people, they would think Freddy Krueger frequented the place (gloved hand?)

Farway
12-11-2009, 11:35
We'll have to get Inspector Farway on the case - see what he thinks!

I read the White Horse review, many years since I was in there, it is one pub that is very hard to find, all on it's own in middle of a field off a B road, down a track, no signage, hence "Pub with no name", you either know where it is or never go there

Now, what do, I am in Blackmoor next week, perhaps divert to White Horse on way home weather permitting?

Watch this space

Soup Dragon
12-11-2009, 12:36
Dedication, Sir, what else can i say!

Farway
12-11-2009, 13:05
Dedication, Sir, what else can i say!

How about "What's yours"? :glass:

Soup Dragon
12-11-2009, 13:08
thats kind, i will have a Holden's MILD - cheers!

Farway
18-11-2009, 14:18
Well did make it to the White Horse, but as it was closed [opens at noon] had to content myself with pictures, which I will post in due course

A bloke emptying something looked quizically at me taking pics, but I donned my "daft old duffer" guise and he was quite pleasant, friendly little dog as well, which I realise is hardly a pub review

Conrad
18-11-2009, 14:27
At least it was a positive review:)

Farway
18-11-2009, 15:07
At least it was a positive review:)

I wonder how this sort of review would seem to others, the only comment being "friendly little dog"

Would that indicate rest is awful, or just that silence is golden?

Conrad
18-11-2009, 15:35
Dog friendly pub?

Conrad
23-01-2010, 11:15
Bump, would be interested if any of our new members have anything to add.

Millay
23-01-2010, 14:38
Just glancing through yesterdays reviews (sterling performances from Arwkrite (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/userinfo.php?name=arwkrite) and Ga Andrews (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/userinfo.php?name=ArchieGa)). I have just deleted a review by a new member on the site for mentioning being accosted outside by the drug fueled tramps. For reviews this is at the lighter end of the spectrum, having previously had drug selling and other less savoury suggestions about landlords.

Was interested to hear what others thought though. We have now reached the point where if you mention drugs in the review it is going to be deleted (that is not a challenge :p).

In fact in general we will just delete negative reviews particularly off 1/2 droppers. It is a sad thing to do that, in that I think you should be able to review negatively, but it is just stupid coming on our site if you have an axe to grind, we don't want to deal with the wound up landlords, it just wastes our time and stresses them and us. Oh and if there are drugs on or near the premises, tell the Police, not us.

Anyway just an invitation to suggest what is right about reviews and amuse yourselves with what you hate in reviews. I may rip off good suggestions for when I build the review guidelines as suggested by Archivist as well.

Oh Dear, I do hope my review slating Yates in Manchester doesn't fall foul of the negative review filter, if you look very closely there is a hint of humour in it ;)

But seriously I think any review that mentions drug taking or dealing or indeed alleges any illegal activity should be removed. If not the site could leave itself open to legal proceedings, or at best having to provide IP addresses for the poster.

I think any review guidelines should encourage people to comment purely on their views about the pub rather than comenting on other people's reviews. Things that I believe it is OK and useful to comment on would include,

Drink range and quality
Food range and quality
Prices and value for money
Staff efficiency (although this is often changeable depending on time of day etc.)
Basic appearance of the pub
Typical clientele / who the pub is aimed at
Live music / quiz nights
Dog friendly / Child friendly
Toilet facilities
Beer Garden
Pool table / dart board / other pub games
TV / Sky / do they show most sporting events.
Location / is it easy to get to by public transport
Other good pubs nearby (helps when planning a crawl)

I don't think I have used all of these in a single review but have used them all at some stage.

Soup Dragon
23-01-2010, 14:57
I think you tend to put in odd things depending on when you go or what you experience - malodourous bogs for example

I tend to arrange my reviews accordingly

Exterior (inc beer patio/garden); Interior arrangement and decor; games and TV; food if appropriate; Staff and clientele;

Beer range and quality

I then sum up giving the basic of would i go back?

I also think it also depends on how many pubs you aim to review - i review all i go in - even if its a two liner to say no MILD or real ale, so i left (though i make a point of saying this is a comment rather than a review) . Most pub reviews i do however are far more detailed - but not so detailed as some other reviewers, though they may only do a couple of pubs in a go and concentrate more on them - i am off to Rugeley tomorrow and have a list of 20 pubs - i wont do them all, though 10 could be closed and 5 not do MILD or real ale!

arwkrite
23-01-2010, 15:18
I have commented on drug trading in one pub I think. This was in a family branded pub the type which we used regularly around the midlands and beyond .The head Honcho of the ethnic group filling the place offered us drugs when we refused he told us to drink up and F888 O88. His charming little daughter threw a brick end at the car as we left the car park. ( Realised it was your neck of the woods Conrad.)
Drug dealing is so common I normaly only make a mental note of it, its a game like spot the store detective. I don't want the stuff but as long as they dont interfere with my drinking I wont interfere with their sniffing,smoking or popping . Needles are anti social. Lets face it us drinkers are getting worse press than than drug takers these days.

Conrad
23-01-2010, 16:25
We haven't got any automated checks it is all human readings, and since we now have so many beginning to appear (:notworthy:) we are going to have to rely on things being reported soon.

One of our key criteria is review history though, if you have left a lot of reviews you are clearly going to get more leeway - as long as you don't leap right across the fictional line.

NickDavies
23-01-2010, 16:36
"Be the first to write a recommendation on this pub and let everyone else know about this hidden gem" it says on unreviewed pubs, which rarher fazed me at first. I suppose in theory it should limit reviews somewhat as most pubs are neither hidden nor gems. Though I suppose a rough diamond is still a gem.

Anyway the Boadicea (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/68187/) is here now....who will be the first to let everyone know about this hidden gem???

runningdog
23-01-2010, 19:29
As I jumped straight in to these forums, there are probably one or two more threads like this which I haven't come across before. I've read this one straight though, every few posts I came across something I might have commented on, only to find that a few entries later it had been dealt with. So here I am, fully up to date, somewhat intoxicated, from an elegant sufficiency of Youngs Winter Warmer, and with the odd point to state.
Before I stumbled across BitE, I used annual pub guides, often excellent, but, out of date before going to print. I used, in order of preference, Sawdays, GBG, GPG and Michelin. You will not find a single bad review in any of them, but I'm sure that unless it's a JDW, if you don't find a pub within their collective pages, then, put simply, don't go there. Guides that suggest and describe good pubs are a tool, guides to bad pubs, a curiosity, no more.
For a while I took on board the BitE philosophy, echoed by several of my fellow immigrants, that a bad review is as valuable as a good one. I was never sure, and quit as I found that there was only so much going into crap pubs so that I could give an up to date bad review I could cope with.
I'm still not entirely clear as to how negative a review has to be before it is in danger of being deleted or rejected, but, thinking on it, I can live, quite happily, with the aims stated by Conrad on the subject. Indeed I just wonder, was it the bad reviews that kicked it all off in the forum up the road?:moremad:
:drinkup::drinkup:

oldboots
24-01-2010, 09:37
For a while I took on board the BitE philosophy, echoed by several of my fellow immigrants, that a bad review is as valuable as a good one. I was never sure, and quit as I found that there was only so much going into crap pubs so that I could give an up to date bad review I could cope with.


I suppose it depends partly on if the pub has been reviewed on PuG before, if there's a recent bad review then no need to trouble yourself with a visit, if there's no review, only a one line non-review or the review is very old then I would go in and do a review. I'll even go into pubs with stinkers of reviews just out of curiousity. I like going into unfamiliar pubs, sometimes you are very pleasantly surprised sometimes not. I rarely find a pub so bad that there's nothing positive I can say although I struggled with this one http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/55534/ even after a rewrite or three.

RogerB
24-01-2010, 10:21
Anyway the Boadicea (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/68187/) is here now....who will be the first to let everyone know about this hidden gem???
Challenge accepted and mission accomplished. :p I suppose I'd better get a photo at some stage as well!

arwkrite
24-01-2010, 10:59
I don't look on myself as a pub collector as many honoured members are, intrepid adventurers searching out pubs and beers for the enjoyment of others. Me I see a pub and if I have never visited it before a strange magnetism takes over. Sci -Fi fans may call it a Tractor Beam. I call it a thirst for beer.
Pubs with a name for trouble can normally be visited during daylight hours where you will find a different class of customer who decamps at a magic hour. Its probably wise to leave at the same time. Heavily tattooed,stud encrusted and chained barstaff and customers have time to talk and you discover they are different people when the pressure is off.
I have walked into Gay and Lesbian pubs by mistake and have not felt threatened as I have in some street corner locals. Every pub is the local to some group and I try to remember it is their place .It must serve their purpose. A dirty grimey pub it may be but if its full to the rafters can we criticize it other than to say it is not to our preferance

RogerB
24-01-2010, 11:11
Most of my reviews are fairly positive simply because I weed out the bad pubs before I visit any area where I know I will be looking for new pubs to visit. On the occasions where I do end up in a "bad" pub, I have no problem saying so but I do at least try to point out any positive aspects and make some informative reasoning behind why I don't like a place. If people take offence so be it but I find they are generally the type who are too blinkered to look beyond the pint in front of them and have an outlook on pubs that says "if it sells Stella and my mates drink here it is worth 10/10" (sorry, *****).

Farway
24-01-2010, 15:14
Most of my reviews are positive where they can be, where not I stick to facts, like went in, no one interested in serving me so I left, and do not leave any stars

http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/13600/

arwkrite
24-01-2010, 15:23
A quick aside...Has anyone ever been mistaken for or accused of being a "Mystery Customer".?

Farway
24-01-2010, 15:38
A quick aside...Has anyone ever been mistaken for or accused of being a "Mystery Customer".?

Not that I am aware of, but I had "odd" looks as I wrote things down, but the service & beer was fine anyway so could not say it got better afterwards. This was in the Beer Cellar, Southsea

PS, I did do some Mystery Shopping a few years back, not pubs, but it became a PIA so stopped

runningdog
24-01-2010, 18:37
A quick aside...Has anyone ever been mistaken for or accused of being a "Mystery Customer".?

Most places regard me as a bit of mystery anyway..........

arwkrite
24-01-2010, 23:38
In my case its generally just weird but harmless if not provoked. I add a bit of local colour, usually green from the previous nights hangover.:sick::cool:

ROBCamra
25-01-2010, 10:57
A quick aside...Has anyone ever been mistaken for or accused of being a "Mystery Customer".?

No, but I've been asked "with menaces" whether I was from "The Benefits". :eek:

When I explained what I was doing he said "Better make it f**kin good then"

I didn't. Needless to say I haven't been back, but I wouldn't have gone back anyway.

Soup Dragon
25-01-2010, 12:20
i went into a Thwaites pub wearing a Thwaites top once, when i asked the guy behind the bar about the Lancaster Bomber not being on, he went all apologetic - maybe he thought i was a mystery brewery guy (in disguise in a Thwaites top!)

arwkrite
25-01-2010, 12:25
Soups it was probably the dark glasses without a white stick and no labrador that made him suspicious.

Oggwyn Trench
25-01-2010, 19:28
i went into a Thwaites pub wearing a Thwaites top once, when i asked the guy behind the bar about the Lancaster Bomber not being on, he went all apologetic - maybe he thought i was a mystery brewery guy (in disguise in a Thwaites top!)

And theirs me thinking you walked around in full Regency Dandy costume !

Soup Dragon
25-01-2010, 20:22
And theirs me thinking you walked around in full Regency Dandy costume !

Sadly, Oggy. i actually do often wear the waistcoat, fob watch and grandad shirt

Conrad
26-04-2010, 13:00
Having kicked this off again I thought I would revive this thread with a quick example showing our thought processes and possible screw ups.

Back in January the following review was posted of a pub. It was the only review the reviewer left and to their credit they appeared to use a genuine name.


Avoid the censored if you value good food, service, value and your health.

My wife and I had a terrible and overpriced meal at the censored last year but I persuaded her to give it another chance as it is was on our route and we wanted a no-frills pub lunch. One bad experience doesn't ordinarily mean a bad pub, right?

We waited (about 45 minutes) for our food, in a freezing cold converted conservatory - ok, I can accept that, after all the pub seemed very busy. I ordered simple Cod n Chips because I thought it's really hard to mess up and my wife ordered the fish pie.

I received one of the worst pieces of cod I have ever been served. It''s described as a 'fillet' when in fact it's barely an escalope. It had more batter than fish (apparently the batter is home-made cider batter but you'll find better in a chipshop), hadn't been deboned, and wasn't particularly fresh. It wasn't off, I should say to be fair, but it wasn't fresh. Growing up around fishermen, I know what a fresh fish should taste like. My wife's fish pie was described as containing king prawns. It's almost accurate, as if you order one, you'll be wondering where the ***king prawns are too. The vegetables were cold and she descibed the broccoli as tasting like an arm pit.

I tried complaining and had to deal with the owner. He's rude and defensive. He seemed to think offering to show me the delivery receipts from his supplier and how much he paid for the fish would be satisfactory. The point is, I've had cod three times as good as this for 6.95 before. The price that the censored want to charge you? £13.95. What annoys me most is, because of the absence of staff (don't expect to get drinks served to your table) in the resurant and the bar, I had the opportunity just to leave the pub un-noticed. But we stayed, and eventually found someone willing to settle my tab. What a mug.

Two hours later and between us we've now got diarrhea and indigestion. Thanks for that.

By all means go, if you want a slow, awful meal for two that'll cost you thirty quid and if you don't value your digestive tract.

I suppose I ought to think of something positive to say. Er, they had some nice plants.It is a relatively well reasoned and seemingly honest review, although I would take all the times with a dose of salt.

We then received the following in March through the anonymous feedback system, with no contact details on it.

other: Good Afternoon

I am writing in reference to a post on your website from a 'censored' dated 16th January 2010 in regards to a recent visit to censored.

I am requesting that this comment is removed from the website as I feel that "Pubs Galore" is being used by this person to vent his anger rather than be constructively critical, if you honestly have nothing good to say about a pub, say nothing at all."

I could bore you with the situation as to why this gentleman felt the need to complain but this is not what I want to use the guide for. Suffice to say no problem was brought to our attention until the gentleman received his bill which in my experience looks like someone wanting something for nothing. We welcome all comments our customers make and take them very seriously as it is only with this we can strive to improve. The purpose of this posting is solely to cause damage rather than give a critique of the pub which is completely unacceptable. The implications in this 'review' that the couple then suffered from food poisoning which I find very hard to believe and could be potentially damaging to my business.

I do hope that you would consider deleting this entry from your website I would not ask if I didn't believe that the guide and my business have been abused by these comments.

I look forward to you response and Thank You for your assistance in this matter.

Kind Regards

Mr censored (BII)
Licensee There is no real way for us to confirm if this person was the Licensee, but it seemed fairly genuine. If asked to choose between the two I would believe the reviewer myself. But with no other reviews left on the site it was deemed as pointless to waste time on it by us and we deleted the review. I think the most decisive factor here for us was that the reviewer had left no other reviews, in particular of pubs worth visiting.

Typically 2 days later we got the following review on the same pub which as far as we can tell is from a distinct and new party in all this:

'DREADFUL PUB! Arrogant and rude landlord AND landlady. I was even reprimanded for ringing ahead and apologising that 1 of the guests was ill so we were a table of 3 not 5 now?! Can't tell you how disappointed I was when we got there then as took my elderly parents there for lunch yesterday (Sunday) and waited over an hour before we even got served! The food then arrived about a further hour afterwards. Chips were so overcooked I sent them back. Next plate arrived undercooked. I left them. Service terrible and will NEVER return. Lady at bar was complaining about the service too when I went to pay (I'd given up waiting for a waiter to bring me the bill). When I told the landlord how disappointed I was, he implied I was lying about the wait I'd had as he showed me the time on the receipt when we ordered our food! I CORRECTED HIM AND TOLD HIM THAT WAS WHEN WE ARRIVED AND ORDERED OUR FIRST DRINKS!! How dare he!! No apology. I hope you lose your license and you are closed down !!!'Given the history with the pub, the fact that this review is all rant and the last sentence being a bit to far for our site we just deleted it. I have to admit to being tempted to undelete the first review, but as the landlord was probably observing things that would have looked stupidly divisive.

I figured I would just publish this as some may find it interesting to have a genuine example that they can think about what they would do with, feel free to comment on this, we are trying to continually evolve the site.

Soup Dragon
26-04-2010, 14:03
Is it the Censored Arms, or the Censored Head? - tried to find it on the PG search facility

Conrad
26-04-2010, 14:13
I could tell you, but then I would have to censure you.

Edit: It also now occurs to me, how vain is that publican that he names the pub after himself?

RogerB
26-04-2010, 15:50
It also now occurs to me, how vain is that publican that he names the pub after himself?

Wasn't a Mr Wetherspoon was it?

I think I would probably want to see what sort of reviews the place has received elsewhere. If it is a dining pub (which it sound like it is), there are probably several reviews on restaurant and dining sites that might offer a few clues as to the accuracy of the postings.

Conrad
26-04-2010, 15:59
One of the things we can at least say about Wetherspoon is whilst it polarises people I don't think I have seen a review as dire as that attached to one.

From our perspective doing the research you mention for a review, and also the possibility that we could have to deal with legal threats down the line makes it far simpler to just delete the review if it is a one drop. If it is from a regular reviewer then we will offer to pass on their complaints to the reviewer to consider or we can just delete the pub from the system. Strangely we have only had a couple of complaints relating to regular reviewers though and none of them have reached the stage of us having to pass on the objections.

RogerB
26-04-2010, 16:13
Reminds me of this old classic...

http://www.beerintheevening.com/user_profile.shtml?username=UKPiglet

It's the fact that she had already slagged the place off in February and then 9 months later did the same again but this time claimed that she only went to eat there becasue the pub had been recommended to her. As for the noisy fan :eek:!

Conrad
26-04-2010, 16:26
And that reminds me of one of ours, we got some feedback which for dramatic effect I shall split up:

this pub is very strange and unusual public house i have ever been too....i walked through the door and got hit on by a member of staff by the name of patrick, and also his brother or cousin unsure which it was, but then got asked if i would like any of there anphetamines i think they ment drugs, very strange i thought from pub staff.. normaly its the punters inside a pub that does that sort of thing patrick the bloke behind the bar offered me to share a room with him for the night and escorted me up to a room. by this time he gave me several free drinks and tryed to take advantage of my good nature i left the pub as quickly as i could, due to i was not that type of lady.
So far so bad we are thinking having read this far, and thank God it is not a review and we can just ignore it as somebody else's problem.

Sadly it went on:

i went back several weeks later and got a free drink from a bloke called ozzy in apology for patricks behaiour and did not accept it incase he was gonna try and do the same so left as quickly as i could. unsure who exactly runs this establishment but if you want free drinks all night this is the place to go but may cost you a night upstairs do i need to say any more
Whilst no one deserves what she was describing you have to wonder at what point they learn something is a bad idea :eek:

Soup Dragon
26-04-2010, 16:27
how many complaints against me Conrad????????

Conrad
26-04-2010, 16:30
From memory 1, but let me get back to you on that. We have never received direct complaints I think, but we have seen counter reviews.

So in fact The Crown in Handsacre (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/67166).

Soup Dragon
26-04-2010, 16:33
oh yes, i remember it well!

arwkrite
26-04-2010, 16:40
Doubt the first reviewer ?May be the axe he had to grind was that he had a bad meal and atrocious and rude service. I have had those sort of experiences. Fish and fillet steak being the most abused dishes. If a customer complains after a couple of mouthfuls then the complaints should be listened to with a closed mouth by the management. If you eat three quarters then complain you deserve what you get. No one likes a freeloader and that's being obvious. Me and the mrs ,for some reason, often dropped off the radar when our meal should have been cooked.Of no real consequence to us it would have been a pain if we had to keep to a time table.
Unlikely catching food poisoning from restaurants ? Come, we have seen some big names exposed as well as small ones for having poor hygiene, bad food and infestations. When we traveled a lot and ate many of our meals in restaurants we were always having funny stomachs and vomiting. But when Lynne became ill and we ate out far less our stomach problems ceased.
If these premises were owned by the landlord then the complainant has little recourse other than spit his venom on ill moderated sites where it normally snowballs.Litigation can be a problem if someone wants to waste a few quid. Otherwise a sensible letter to head office is a much wiser action.

Anyone fancy a fillet of Vietnamese bottom feeding river fish and chips ?

arwkrite
26-04-2010, 17:00
I do remember seeing something like a counter review of one of pubs I wrote up. Since then the pub has changed hands , management OK but the closing of two pubs and restricted opening of a third has seen this pub attract a rougher element than those at my first review. Does it make it a bad pub ? I often drink there and find what passes for conversation amusing. What the visitors think god only knows. ( They sell good ale thats good enough for me ......Own up ! ....Who threw that glass ?.......To Pi883d to throw straight )

Andy Ven
26-04-2010, 20:10
how many complaints against me Conrad????????

You're not popular in Flan's, they tell me

Andy Ven
26-04-2010, 20:13
I don't really want to view a site that contains libellous comments or tit for ta slanging matches but this review from the other side made me smile (read it from the bottom up)

http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs/s/72/7265/Case_is_Altered/Five_Ways

Conrad
27-04-2010, 11:32
I thought I recognised the trouble starting review (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/37350/). I am kind of glad we never got the reply as I think we would have deleted it as having nothing to do with the pub, although it did make me smile. I have a feeling it was a review mentioned on the first couple of pages of this thread (don't worry I don't expect anyone to remember).

aleandhearty
27-04-2010, 11:59
Possibly going off at a slight tangent, one thing I'm becoming increasingly uncomfortable with is the age of some of the reviews being submitted. The review of the Bear & Staff in Strand www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/53792/ that appeared yesterday is a perfect example.

The review was from March 2007 and yet appears above one from Feb 2010 (albeit composed in Dec 2009). As these 'recent' reviews are the ones that appear on RPOTD I don't think they are doing the image of PuG any favours. I would be the first to agree that where a pub has no review these old reviews are better than none. However, if a pub already has a recent review I would question the relevance of such old copy. For that reason I never transferred many of my reviews over from BITE, reasoning that things are likely to have changed with the passing months.

For the record, if this appears to be targeted specifically at JAQPTIO/rpadam then I apologise. That was not my intention. However, it's a topic we all need to think about.

Conrad
27-04-2010, 12:26
I think this primarily an rpadam and Soup Dragon choice, Dave can tell me if more people are doing it.

Neither of them used the tool we threw together to amend the dates, and both have been clear in their reviews when the review dated from. The bigger difference is that Soup was pretty much the first in most of his locations so it doesn't really notice that the dates are wrong on his reviews as they don't appear out of sequence.

For me it is more important to have the useful reviews on the pub even if at this point they are out of sequence, we are seeing that where there is activity it generates activity, for instance see how much Birmingham perked up with Andy's efforts and then the conversations just spawned more and more input. It is not ideal, but I think it is part of a mini transition we are going through at the moment. RP(OTD) is constrained to reviews from the last 30 days so it will wash through that, and hopefully we will get more new reviews which will make it less relevant the information is out of sequence.

I have to admit for me the worst thing we are doing at the moment is changing the names of the pubs but showing the old pictures with wrong names. There is no way I want to lose those images but I really would like to make the timeline of the pub a lot clearer.

All In My Humble Opinion, not the word of law there.

RogerB
27-04-2010, 12:29
I must adnmit I was beginning to get a bit miffed with them. I assume RP didn't get the same "review migration" opportunity that some of us did where by our old reviews slotted nicely into the PG calander so I can see why he has done it and at least it is open for all to see. Hopefully they will all get overtaken in due course and I must admit, if there is one I spot and I have a review pending for the same pub, I try and put it to the top of my pile.

RogerB
27-04-2010, 12:35
Ah, Conrad seems to have answered half my thoughts before I pushed the "submit" button.

Soup Dragon
27-04-2010, 18:31
I think most of the reviews i migrated were within 4 months of August 2009, when i started posting - so within a realistic time frame, most before that were redone after another visit. All after the end of August-ish were new.

I have reviewed the Case is Altered here - the first pub of my infamous Solihull trip - i thought it was class.

and yes, Andy - i know the chap in Flans didnt quite agree with me, but then, it serves the best beer in the world!

Andy Ven
27-04-2010, 19:25
[QUOTE=Conrad;12225] I have to admit for me the worst thing we are doing at the moment is changing the names of the pubs but showing the old pictures with wrong names. There is no way I want to lose those images but I really would like to make the timeline of the pub a lot clearer.QUOTE]

I think it's useful to be able to look back at photos of pubs under their previous name but perhaps a little confusing when those photos appear on the main page of that pub. Is there any way of keeping those photos in the archive of that pub's photos so as to suppress them from appearing as the random photo on the front page - or is that creating too much work for too little gain?

Conrad
27-04-2010, 22:53
What you suggest needs doing in some capacity at some point, I would like to offer publicans the ability to take control of their pages and select the photo that is displayed. I don't think that is the solution though, and to do now would be too little gain compared to other priorities.

I am basically trying to rewrite all the toys that make up a pub, I am part way through doing all the review code, there are a few enhancements being lined up to release on that, then I need to do the links and maps code. Once that is all done though I would like to set it up so that you can create a page that represents old versions of the pub, be this because of name change or management change. The old version will look like any other pub page, but will not show up on the maps or town pages, you will only be able to get to the old version of the pub from the current version (and search), with this working we can just attach the photos to the old version with the correct name rather than the current version. This is some way off but is the solution I have in mind.

Millay
28-04-2010, 07:13
I have to admit for me the worst thing we are doing at the moment is changing the names of the pubs but showing the old pictures with wrong names. There is no way I want to lose those images but I really would like to make the timeline of the pub a lot clearer.

Not sure if I've suggested this before but I've certainly thought about it. Would it be possible to show name changes on the 'page activity' link. Where we have 'photo added by' or 'map point corrected by' could we have name changed from xxxxxx to xxxxx. I think this would benefit anyone looking for an old pub in a certain area - although they'd have to know that the page existed of course. It also provides a good audit of the history of the premises.

Conrad
28-04-2010, 12:16
Possible, yes. Not sure if it would be right however. That is meant to show how users interacted with the page, so there would kind of need to be a user change option there to allow users to change the name (and that was always part of the plan). Hopefully when I institute the system I have planned it will tie into that.

RogerB
30-04-2010, 19:24
I wouldn't want to deny Soupy a fan base but, Conrad, you may want to keep an eye on Ms Bould!

http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/63302/

http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/67168/

Conrad
30-04-2010, 19:36
Brilliant :)

I'll let Dave delete them later on as they are fairly lacking in danger.

By way of a slight explanation, we frequently leave something for the other to see so that they can do any investigation they want to on it (and of course we are both nosey as well). Having left him in town I fear he may be off for a few pints.

Really is being damned by the faintest of praise to suggest you serve the best pint of Carling for miles around though.

Hopefully in the coming months we will enable pub subscriptions and report button on reviews to speed up sorting these things out. Then again when Soup is being insulted I think we should share anyway ;)

Edit: noticed the slightly offensive one with name calling of Soup was on the latest reviews so removed it.

RogerB
30-04-2010, 19:53
noticed the slightly offensive one with name calling of Soup was on the latest reviews so removed it.

That's where I spotted it. I had to look it up in a dictionary but I assumed it wasn't going to be pleasant! Must remember it for future use though.

trainman
30-04-2010, 20:23
Edit: noticed the slightly offensive one with name calling of Soup was on the latest reviews so removed it.

Come on, play fair! Some of us missed it - any chance of displaying the transcript here?
Yes, 'best pint of carling', you've gotta laaarf...

Conrad
30-04-2010, 20:49
Soup Dragon is a douchebag.
I have to admit I don't know exactly what it means, will have to look it up myself. It is an Americanism I believe.

Wittenden
30-04-2010, 23:20
I have to admit I don't know exactly what it means, will have to look it up myself. It is an Americanism I believe.

Conrad-Sid Boggle http://boggleabout.blogspot.com/
has posted on this very subject. I admit that having read the peice I am none the wiser.

Conrad
30-04-2010, 23:37
Nope I'm none the wiser either. Since apparently Soup is one though I am guessing it must be someone who worships Mild.

trainman
01-05-2010, 07:31
Ahaa - this explains Andy V's reference to same on the photography thread. Must admit I hadn't understood the reason for an apparent, if jokey, attack before this, but now all is clear.

RogerB
01-05-2010, 09:48
I believe this to be the a reasonable assessment of its meaning...

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=douchebag

Andy Ven
01-05-2010, 09:53
:)

ROBCamra
03-05-2010, 15:49
Possibly going off at a slight tangent, one thing I'm becoming increasingly uncomfortable with is the age of some of the reviews being submitted. The review of the Bear & Staff in Strand www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/53792/ that appeared yesterday is a perfect example.

The review was from March 2007 and yet appears above one from Feb 2010 (albeit composed in Dec 2009). As these 'recent' reviews are the ones that appear on RPOTD I don't think they are doing the image of PuG any favours. I would be the first to agree that where a pub has no review these old reviews are better than none. However, if a pub already has a recent review I would question the relevance of such old copy. For that reason I never transferred many of my reviews over from BITE, reasoning that things are likely to have changed with the passing months.

For the record, if this appears to be targeted specifically at JAQPTIO/rpadam then I apologise. That was not my intention. However, it's a topic we all need to think about.

I've just reviewed The Castle in Manchester where an OK review from March 2010 has been superseded by a hopelessly out of date review from March 2007. :moremad: It's been closed for quite a while since then, changed hands, been refurbished and reopened.

Sorry guys I don't see the point unless it's a virgin pub when March 2007 is better than nothing.:mad:

Personally I think the 2007 review should be deleted as it's pointless.

Feel free to disagree :)

Conrad
03-05-2010, 16:53
I suppose I agree with your ROB, but taking a slightly broader view. If a reviewer is reviewing a lot of virgin pubs and also enjoys and wants to transfer the rest of their reviews to have a complete collection here I would rather have all and know they are enjoying the site than have some and degrade their investment or worst of all have none, particularly as they are not being disingenuous with the dates clearly on the review.

With regards to the Castle Hotel (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/25799/) in Manchester I have now corrected the review time (and thus you may wish to amend your review ROB), if you find others that are irritatingly appearing out of order I can similarly correct these. Please do only request it on ones that have specific issues as it requires me to fiddle directly with the database which is both time consuming and raises the possibilities of me doing something silly and of damaging other records.

ROBCamra
03-05-2010, 17:03
I have now corrected the review time (and thus you may wish to amend your review ROB

And I've amended mine as well. Cheers:)

rpadam
03-05-2010, 19:33
As the 'guilty party' here, I have generally only added old reviews where they refer to 'virgin' pubs (of which I must have contributed more than most), provide a bit of context (i.e. in the case of the Castle, before the refurb which had been mentioned by another reviewer) or show that little has changed over time (as in the Bear & Staff). All such reviews have been considered before submission and each clearly indicates the date to give the reader a perfectly clear indication of what was being said (and when). Numerous other reviews have been left on the shelf (for various reasons, including some being pretty rubbish in hindsight), and I certainly wouldn't wish to waste my time (and other people's) if I thought that adding a review (even if old) was "pointless."

Reviews, such as those for the Castle and Bear & Staff, will be re-dated as/when I get the chance.

Conrad
03-05-2010, 20:43
Of course, I agree that it would be best if these were in date order but (as far as I know) I have no facility for changing the date without overloading the administrators with individual requests, and my personal opinion is that this is only an issue (if at all) when a pub appears as the random pub on the front page.
I sent you a PM about this that the forum is suggesting to me you read. :o

Let me know if you need me to resend it.

Soup Dragon
04-05-2010, 18:28
have i missed something!

Conrad
05-05-2010, 11:35
No, it is just the standard PM sent out to the new members who joined around the time you did Soup, offering a solution to the aged review issue. You did get it, but decided (quite rightly) that it wasn't worth the hassle at that point.

RogerB
05-05-2010, 11:42
I've still got about 9 pages (of my initial 50ish pages ) left to get through but I'm gradually getting there, re-writing and updating them where possible. (NB Response to thread dates from May 2010).

ROBCamra
05-05-2010, 11:54
(NB Response to thread dates from May 2010).

:D

Conrad
05-05-2010, 11:57
I probably should fill out my reply a little more, Soup was pretty much all virgin pubs when he did it and all were I think within 6 months of the review, to redo them at that point would have been a lot of duplication for very little gain. It sounds like rpadam is contemplating that route though :eek:. A braver man than I.

Just to reiterate though we are grateful for all those reviews, and any hassles that arise from them are on a completely different scale to the reviews this thread was started about. I will have to fish out another example for chatting about to show again a review that is actually annoying.

Conrad
05-11-2010, 15:17
Time to revive a positively ancient thread.

We have just received a very well worded and polite complaint (from the owner) about this review.

Pub recently changed hands and it shows. Was great, could take your dog for some dinner, can't anymore. Staff have changed, now very rude (would not even get my mum a glass of water, told to go to bar and get it!!). Dinner here used to be great, fresh sunday roast, now it just seems stale, like they are cooking up last weeks meals again. Walked out it was so bad and went to MU Inn down road which was much better.

I have to admit to being in a quandry, the review is fine, but a one dropper. As the landlord has been polite I must admit that I just don't want the hassle and feel like deleting the review, if the reviewer was worth anything they surely would have reviewed the MU Inn?

Interested to hear what you would do, please put yourself fully in my shoes and think how you will explain to the owner you won't remove it if that is your feeling, or what reason you would give for the deletion if you lean that way (the reason is sent to the reviewer).

I am going to sit on it for an hour but will do something before the end of work today. As ever interested to hear on how it affects your feelings on our site though.

* Link removed, and quote distorted to slightly anonymise.

Soup Dragon
05-11-2010, 15:38
I would always give the pub the benefit of the doubt, with one time reviewers. If it was a respected reviewer - or even Andy Ven:p i would invite them to leave a review of their own

RogerB
05-11-2010, 15:45
There are glowing recent reports of the pub elsewhere that suggest the poster is one of these hard to please people with a chip on their shoulder. The review is hardly balanced - no mention of any plus points, the beers or the pub in general, just a hammer and tongs assault on the management of the place and presumptious guesswork regarding the "freshness" of their meals.

I would suggest that the landlord drops the chap a PM inviting round for a free glass of wine or a pint, a chat and maybe a look around the kitchens as I would hazard a guess that he has nothing to hide. If he doesn't respond he can at least post his own response to the criticisms saying that he did try to contact him. Most people will see the review for what it is and appreciate a landlord that is constructively responsive to such criticism.

Quinno
05-11-2010, 15:48
how old is the review?

If it's more than 6 months, I think that you can be fairly confident that this reviewer won't be returning to the site (unless they find another pub to complain about a lack of dog bowls or whatever).

So cull it.

Conrad
05-11-2010, 15:51
I would suggest that the landlord drops the chap a PM inviting round for a free glass of wine or a pint, a chat and maybe a look around the kitchens as I would hazard a guess that he has nothing to hide. If he doesn't respond he can at least post his own response to the criticisms saying that he did try to contact him. Most people will see the review for what it is and appreciate a landlord that is constructively responsive to such criticism.
I didn't want to reproduce the owners feedback, mainly because it was quite long. Gist is that they don't believe it and have checked with the staff to see if they knew (all politely phrased and quite genuine), a request to remove the review (not an order just a question), and contact details with an eye to us passing them on to the reviewer (although not quite specific enough, so I would have to contact them to get permission to pass them on).

So pretty much aiming towards what you are saying. In an ideal world what you are saying is correct, have to admit that the time spent going back and forth just makes me think, delete the review, and advise the owner to join and leave a review mentioning they are the owner.

Prioritising my time or laziness, I'll let you decide ;)

Conrad
05-11-2010, 15:53
how old is the review?
Yesterday sadly.

I'm actually quite heartened to see that we are not too concerned so far for this review.

Farway
05-11-2010, 16:19
I would delete, and invite owner to submit review

Rudeness and taste of food are subjective, but I would expect waiting staff to bring a glass of water, or even a pint of beer come to that, lack of dogs in pub serving food is good thing IMO

Maybe invite reviewer to do more reviews? But this one seems just a quick rant and I'm off

Must admit I have walked down road on occasions, but did at least review the alternative pub

Al 10000
05-11-2010, 17:23
Personally I think the 2007 review should be deleted as it's pointless.

Feel free to disagree :)[/QUOTE]


Hi Conrad i have just been putting some photos and short reviews of pubs i did in Stockport on the day i went there i also went to Mobberley and Knutsford in Cheshire these pubs were visited 13 October 2007.
There are no pictures of pubs in Mobberley and 2 useless reviews there is also not many pictures for Pubs in Knutsford.

I was going to put these on as i have lists of beers each pub sold then but since reading this thread i feel that some members only want reviews that are less than a month old.
What is your opinion on this.

:cheers: Alan.

Conrad
05-11-2010, 17:48
I have deleted the contentious review, with a suggestion that it was impossible to check as this was their only review. Owner has been informed that it is removed with a similar explanation and invite to review the pub, also was notified we had used them as a test case on the forum(just in case they feel it is unreasonable).

As ever feel free to chip in after the event, it helps my sanity.

Conrad
05-11-2010, 17:53
...
What is your opinion on this.

:cheers: Alan.
I don't think anyone particularly objects to old reviews (although clearly places less value on them for visiting now), if anyone does though they should feel free to correct me.

My own personal opinion is strongly against 1 stop reviewers particularly where they are negative. You are building up a body of reviews, so others can see what you are reviewing and choose to give your reviews the weight they deserve. The one exception I can think of to this is publicans who may choose to only review their own pub.

Andy Ven
05-11-2010, 18:59
I would always give the pub the benefit of the doubt, with one time reviewers. If it was a respected reviewer - or even Andy Ven:p i would invite them to leave a review of their own

I agree with Soup Douche :)

Rex_Rattus
05-11-2010, 19:04
I think this is a really difficult call. You just don't know whether the staff were rude, or the food poor quality as alleged, as you weren't there. Some of the review doesn't make much sense - "take your dog for some dinner" - is he/she really saying that you ought to be allowed to take your dog into a pub and allow it to eat in the pub? And is being invited to go to the bar for the glass of water so bad? It's not rude per se to tell the diners that, but of course it depends on how the exchange was phrased and delivered. Most pubs don't provide table service, even for diners. You go to the bar, pay for and receive drinks, order and pay for the food which is subsequently brought to your table. The review is certainly no great loss, and I don't blame you for taking the easy way out. But as I said, it's a close call for me, as the review isn't offensive or libelous, just inaccurate according to the landlord, and if they had posted just one other reviewthat was reasonably positive I think I would have let it stay.

Alan - I don't think there is a general feeling that old reviews shouldn't be posted. Obviously you should make it clear from when the information dates, but as long as it is informative it does provide a historical perspective on the pub. I see from a lot of your reviews that you say which brewery had the pub in days past, and I find that sort of information interesting. Clearly the value of the review diminishes with time, and just saying something like "great pub, staff are friendly" doesn't help much if it is based on a 2007 visit. But my personal view is that you should crack on with these old reviews and photographs, and give us as much information about what these pubs were like in years past.

trainman
06-11-2010, 00:26
Anyone liking anywhere called 'MU Inn' is clearly insane. Nuff said!

Conrad
06-11-2010, 00:33
Anyone liking anywhere called 'MU Inn' is clearly insane. Nuff said!
:D

MU Inn = Made Up Inn

That was me anonymising

trainman
06-11-2010, 00:43
:D
MU Inn = Made Up Inn

Well I can't find that anywhere, so I'll stick with my bitter poetic license, thank you!

aleandhearty
06-11-2010, 00:54
Still can't make my mind up on this one. Are there genuine people out there who'd register just to vent their spleen about one particular pub? In a small number of cases, I'd probably say yes. Also, you're bound to get a spectrum of articulacy and the occasional piece of skewed thinking. Because it's misguided is that reason enough to remove it? Particularly if it's heartfelt and contains no offensive language. Maybe one possibility would be to keep the review, but allow the landlord's (edited?) reply alongside. Remember Ed's experiences with TripAdvisor? Of course that set's a precedent, that may provide a lot of hassle.

No real answers, only questions I'm afraid.

NickDavies
06-11-2010, 10:19
Still can't make my mind up on this one. Are there genuine people out there who'd register just to vent their spleen about one particular pub? In a small number of cases, I'd probably say yes.

Loads of them. Sorry to harp on about this but it's usually to complain, often in forensic detail, of a poor dining-out experience, or that they wouldn't let them in with their kids, or didn't provide high chairs or creche facilities if they did.

Conrad
06-11-2010, 13:46
Loads of them. Sorry to harp on about this but it's usually to complain, often in forensic detail, of a poor dining-out experience, or that they wouldn't let them in with their kids, or didn't provide high chairs or creche facilities if they did.
Out of interest what would your action have been on the review in question?

NickDavies
06-11-2010, 15:25
Out of interest what would your action have been on the review in question?

Removed it, and, depending on my level of grumpiness at the time, suggested the user address their grievance directly with the pub rather than throwing stones and running away.

Conrad
06-11-2010, 18:39
Removed it, and, depending on my level of grumpiness at the time, suggested the user address their grievance directly with the pub rather than throwing stones and running away.
:D

I know how you feel.

arwkrite
06-11-2010, 19:32
Sorry I am late on this one.

On reading what was written it was a poor effort at a review. I would put it under the heading of Whinges, Whines and Moans. No mention of what drinks are available, no description of the premises or even of the type of food which was so sadly inedible .
A definite moan and groan.....bin it.

General Staal
07-11-2010, 20:24
I myself have left reviews on the site, then gone away and worried about them. If I find something wrong, I always mention it. If someone with me finds something wrong (or right) I will pass on their comments (usually Mrs Staal's).

I always try to balance my comments. I have just left a review about a pub in which I comment that it was the only pub on my crawl to use plastic glasses - but I did say the beer was good.

As I say, I personally find it tricky. But I am always honest. I hope.

Al 10000
14-11-2010, 17:55
Having just read the review of the Wellington Hotel in Bacup i think that the people who do regular reviews on Pubs Galore should go to this pub and get some spelling lessons from the woman who left two reviews of this pub.

My favourite was "great atmostfear":eek:

hondo
18-11-2010, 07:11
http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/59406/

Conrad
18-11-2010, 07:59
http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/59406/
Thanks for that, now gone.

gillhalfpint
18-11-2010, 15:27
Not sure whether I should have started a new thread or if this is the appropriate place, but having just done a crawl of Nottingham, I was entering my reviews, and found that on a few occasions, I was the last person to review the pub a month ago when I was in Nottingham for their festival.

Wasn't sure whether to enter anything again, so just said nothing further to add, and gave the beer I had chosen in most cases. Felt better for putting something I suppose because I was there.

Conrad
18-11-2010, 15:51
I am certainly happy for it to be done that way. I keep on coming back to the point that one day I would like you to be able to publish a journal of your travels, so mentioning the beers seems sensible.

Only thing I would mention is that if you are someone who uses ratings then only the latest rating is considered, so you will have to duplicate the rating in your review.

Farway
18-11-2010, 16:23
I see a very positive response by a landlady to one of my reviews, and good for her, she has corrected me on disabled access, I never spotted the special side entrance from car park

Seems PuG is getting around, now all I need is posty tomorrow and I can give card to tenant etc as I go around

Conrad
19-11-2010, 15:51
I see a very positive response by a landlady to one of my reviews, and good for her, she has corrected me on disabled access, I never spotted the special side entrance from car park
Glad to see someone dealing with an issue sensibly. Good stuff on the promotion!

Conrad
05-12-2010, 19:22
I would welcome any feedback on this one (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?4131-Review&p=24765#post24765).

Mentioned on this thread as the other thread doesn't show up under What's New.

ETA
07-12-2010, 11:08
I would welcome any feedback on this one (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?4131-Review&p=24765#post24765).

Mentioned on this thread as the other thread doesn't show up under What's New.

With regards to Alan's review, I have no problem with it at all, and as you said in your edit, with a great many reviews under his belt, I know what I would and wouldn't trust.

Tony's response isn't a review, and whilst it seeks to correct factual error, I feel it fails to do that since what Alan wrote was written in good faith and from his perspective. Such subjective debate should, I feel, be carried out in a forum and not in a review page.

Finally, since Alan's comments on the beer were complimentary, I feel it is a little churlish of Tony to respond as he has.

RogerB
07-12-2010, 11:29
Mentioning food availability is always a bit tricky. I wouldn't mention that a pub doesn't do food unless it is blantantly obvious by notices in the pub or from conversations with the staff. Many pubs offer food only at selected times or on certain days and the menus are often whisked away outside of the dining times leaving no clues that they do food. I generally only comment wehen I have my mits on a menu or there are blackboards advertising it. If there is nothing to hand, I wouldn't presume that the pub doesn't offer anything. If not sure, best to cover your tracks along the lines of "there did not appear to be any food available during my Saturday afternoon visit" or something similar.

Rex_Rattus
07-12-2010, 17:44
Being an ex-Civil Servant, weasely wording is of course second nature to me and I would cetainly never say that a pub didn't do food just because I hadn't seen any. I would always say something like "I didn't see any sign of food, nor menus on the tables". Some places only do food at lunchtime, or in the evening, and you can't make the assumption that just because you haven't seen any at 3.00 PM or some such time that they never do any.

Like others, I don't see anything wrong with Alan's review. As to which is the main entrance, is I believe taking nit-picking to a new level. And if Alan says he saw horseracing on the TV then I believe him. Tony doesn't really know when Alan was in there, and it could easily have been when he wasn't present, and I've been in plenty of pubs where the punters have changed channels without bothering to first consult the management (I may have done it myself in The Atty). I think Alan was right not to instigate a tit-for-tat sniping match, but if I had been him I think I would have PM'd Tony in a friendly and jocular manner, simply explaining that date of posting isn't necessarily the same thing as date of visit, and left it at that.

Conrad
07-12-2010, 17:52
... I would have PM'd Tony in a friendly and jocular manner, simply explaining that date of posting isn't necessarily the same thing as date of visit, and left it at that.
We don't have site wide PM of course. ;)

This did remind me of a story I once heard about a relation who will remain nameless. Many, many years ago on his first day of being a Tax Inspector he decides to quickly make a name for himself, so off he goes into town to visit a selection of pubs. At each one he stops and asks if they can throw him together a sandwich, when they serve him a sandwich he explains who he is and asks them to come in for an appointment to explain why they have been making no declaration of food sales on their tax returns. Needless to say he went a long way in said profession and his wife refused to ever go out drinking with him in town.

Rex_Rattus
07-12-2010, 18:22
We don't have site wide PM of course. ;)


Ah yes, it's forum only isn't it. I must be regressing!

Blackthorn
08-12-2010, 13:02
Since this thread is about reviewing standards, I would like to throw one of my own in to the mix:

http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/4/

Am I right in commenting on the barman's state of health? I debated whether to or not for some time. It seems to be getting a little personal, but on the other hand my wife was facing the bar and so couldn't avoid seeing his actions the whole time we were there. This made her feel quite uncomfortable and really spoilt her enjoyment of the pub.

I'm quite happy to remove that paragraph if that's the concensus.

Farway
08-12-2010, 13:09
I don't think I would have mentioned it, whilst it was not pleasant it may be just too personal, and who knows, the barman possibly is very embarrassed about it without it being on a pub review site

That said I agree it was not ideal as you point out

ETA
08-12-2010, 13:17
Since this thread is about reviewing standards, I would like to throw one of my own in to the mix:

http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/4/

Am I right in commenting on the barman's state of health? I debated whether to or not for some time. It seems to be getting a little personal, but on the other hand my wife was facing the bar and so couldn't avoid seeing his actions the whole time we were there. This made her feel quite uncomfortable and really spoilt her enjoyment of the pub.

I'm quite happy to remove that paragraph if that's the concensus.

While I might not have provided the gory details, I think that as it was something you observed you are not wrong to have commented, even if was a veiled remark about hygeine which didn't identifythe individual. The outcome was that it directly affected your and your wife's experience in this pub and, assuming there are no legal implications, shoudl therefore form a valid part of your review.

Conrad
08-12-2010, 13:34
Am I right in commenting on the barman's state of health?
Whilst personally I think it is absolutely valid and actually a sensible reviewing comment, with my admin hat on I think I best ask you to remove it.

My reasoning is that I don't think any review comment should be left here that is more appropriate for Environmental Health. And I think that comment is an Environmental Health issue - on the basis that the individual is in catering and you mention blood. If I am remembering my H&S rightly then no blood should ever be visible, replacement tissue time, and any wounds should be covered with a blue plaster.

A pity though, as your intention is clearly not malicious.

Al 10000
08-12-2010, 15:19
Hi Conrad,

There seems to be a spate of one off reviewers not liking what regular reviewers are saying about their pubs,the latest one which i noticed on the home page is of the Harrows in Rochdale Rob Camra with over 600 reviews gave this pub 2 and gave his reasons why the landlady 1 review gave the pub 10 and disagreed what Rob had said i know who i would rather believe.

Soup Dragon
08-12-2010, 15:22
Was this the chap?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqY7mfCrOq0

(Hope this works)

Farway
08-12-2010, 15:46
Hi Conrad,

There seems to be a spate of one off reviewers not liking what regular reviewers are saying about their pubs,the latest one which i noticed on the home page is of the Harrows in Rochdale Rob Camra with over 600 reviews gave this pub 2 and gave his reasons why the landlady 1 review gave the pub 10 and disagreed what Rob had said i know who i would rather believe.

With you there, I think as PuG gets more popular, and has honest, if unflattering reviews, replies by landlords will be more frequent, luckily most normal casual readers will spot the differance and make their own minds up

ROBCamra
08-12-2010, 15:47
Hi Conrad,

There seems to be a spate of one off reviewers not liking what regular reviewers are saying about their pubs,the latest one which i noticed on the home page is of the Harrows in Rochdale Rob Camra with over 600 reviews gave this pub 2 and gave his reasons why the landlady 1 review gave the pub 10 and disagreed what Rob had said i know who i would rather believe.

Caroline Denson isn't actually the landlady. Roy & Nataliya DENSON are the landlord & landlady.

Obviously the surname is a complete coincidence, what a fluke eh! :D

Blackthorn
08-12-2010, 15:47
Whilst personally I think it is absolutely valid and actually a sensible reviewing comment, with my admin hat on I think I best ask you to remove it.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I have removed it as you suggested Conrad.

General Staal
08-12-2010, 17:18
Just a thought - Instead of a blank space to review in, how about a 'format' to complete?

eg - Description of Pub, Atmosphere, Amenities, Drinks on offer etc.

Might put off the 'one offs'.

Conrad
08-12-2010, 17:26
I think we just have to accept that this is the way it works and not get bogged down by people critiquing your reviews. Long term hopefully we can make the interface so that it favours better reviewers, but that is still some way off and reliant on me actually working on the site rather than server maintenance (which has recently taken over my life).


Just a thought - Instead of a blank space to review in, how about a 'format' to complete?

eg - Description of Pub, Atmosphere, Amenities, Drinks on offer etc.

Might put off the 'one offs'.
I hope you have run after lighting that touchpaper, I wish I had (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?2564-Review-tips) ;).

Soup Dragon
08-12-2010, 18:31
Conrad/Dave - can we have an icon for large and small barmaid's cleavages, as proposed by Oggy just 4 posts into that lenthy thread!

Strongers
08-12-2010, 21:57
Taking personal comments to heart wil induce madness. In the past I've had a death threat from someone who seems to know who I am (not on this site or any other pub related one) and I'm still walking this blessed land! At least if someone has a pop you know that people are reading your comments and you're not wasting your time posting to a big black hole like some insane bloggers and tweeters!

Conrad
09-12-2010, 17:57
Thanks for the feedback everyone. I have removed it as you suggested Conrad.
Thanks for that, I felt kind of guilty as it was a fair review. Good of you to ask about it as well.


Conrad/Dave - can we have an icon for large and small barmaid's cleavages, as proposed by Oggy just 4 posts into that lenthy thread!
I'll let someone else search for those, it sounds like the sort of challenge this forum can rise to.


... I've had a death threat from someone who seems to know who I am (not on this site or any other pub related one) and I'm still walking this blessed land!
Obviously if that ever happens on here let us know. We'll make sure and gather all the information so that we can pass it on to the Police in the event of you being found dead ;) (or maybe before)

oldboots
09-12-2010, 19:22
Conrad/Dave - can we have an icon for large and small barmaid's cleavages, as proposed by Oggy just 4 posts into that lenthy thread!

ahhhh that brought back some happy memories of a visit to this Newbury pub (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/1543/) :love:

Farway
10-12-2010, 14:08
ahhhh that brought back some happy memories of a visit to this Newbury pub (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/1543/) :love:

Ahh, I am in the Newbury area next week, weather permitting, sadly I cannot see my female companion agreeing to go to the Lion just so I can perve :(

Quinno
14-12-2010, 10:32
The latest review here is less than helpful; very BITE-like, complete with mangled text-speak:

http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/16724/

Conrad
14-12-2010, 10:41
The latest review here is less than helpful; very BITE-like, complete with mangled text-speak:

http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/16724/
Yep, complete waste of space, now gone.

Thanks

Al 10000
14-12-2010, 18:00
Hi Conrad,

I have just put a short review of the Pineapple in Stalybridge on PG when i went in there in 1989.

This pub is still a Robinsons tied house but the last review (Yet another one off reviewer) gives the pub 10 and says it is the best pub in the world i now wish i had visited it 21 years later has i have now missed going into the best pub in the world.

Alan.

Rex_Rattus
14-12-2010, 18:23
What bad luck Alan - 21 years too soon! And what's a "piannappa"? Some sort of pun on that disgusting Cypriot fleshpot? If so, that wouldn't encourage me to visit.

Conrad
15-12-2010, 14:02
At least they are making it clear from their name that they are prejudiced :)

Evil Gazebo
15-12-2010, 14:17
I was thinking that of all the places I can imagine comparing to Las Vegas, Stalybridge would be well down on the list. But then, according to its Wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalybridge), I discovered that it seems to be a commonly used local piece of irony.


Stalybridge has in recent years, acquired another nickname, Stalyvegas, at first coined as a reaction to a council traffic management plan which included a large number of traffic lights surrounding the main shopping centre, making it difficult to access the shops, the nickname became popular and was used ironically after the controversial conversion of premises in the shopping area into nightclubs and bars, the proliferation of takeaways and the refurbishment of some of the more traditional pubs.


The usual caveats about trusting things one reads on Wiki apply, obviously.

ROBCamra
15-12-2010, 14:44
I was thinking that of all the places I can imagine comparing to Las Vegas, Stalybridge would be well down on the list. But then, according to its Wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalybridge), I discovered that it seems to be a commonly used local piece of irony.
The usual caveats about trusting things one reads on Wiki apply, obviously.

Stalyvegas is indeed a common name for the area. Wiki is partially correct (surely not). The name derives from the number of pubs, bar, clubs etc that have garish neon signs all around the town centre.

The locals think it looks like the Strip in Vegas. I've been to both, it doesn't. :D

aleandhearty
15-12-2010, 15:00
...I discovered that it seems to be a commonly used local piece of irony.

And not just in Stalybridge. Two nondescript local towns, Castleford and Pontefract, are known as 'Cas Vegas' and 'Ponte Carlo', respectively. The latter even has Ponte Carlo Stout brewed in its honour, by local micro Five Towns Brewery!

Bucking Fastard
15-12-2010, 15:17
The locals think it looks like the Strip in Vegas. D

It's still one of the great overnight stops on the canal system,you can conduct a full review of the latest trends in female fashion and then slope off to the Station Buffet to fill your boots with fine ale.The cash only curry house is decent as well.

Quinno
16-12-2010, 09:15
Bit sweary and not overly helpful:

http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/43584/

RogerB
16-12-2010, 09:25
I can't say any of his reviews are particularly helpful unless you need to know the landlords name.

Conrad
16-12-2010, 11:58
Bit sweary and not overly helpful:

http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/43584/
Now deleted, thanks for that.

Left the others for now.

hondo
16-12-2010, 14:32
Conrad/Dave - can we have an icon for large and small barmaid's cleavages, as proposed by Oggy just 4 posts into that lenthy thread!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1338765/Countdown-LARGE-BAPS-conundrum-clue-leaves-contestants-blushing.html :o

Farway
21-12-2010, 13:56
Only just noticed this one by Ogwyn TG, must have been a good pint

http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubpictures/38683/

RogerB
21-12-2010, 14:55
Only just noticed this one by Ogwyn TG, must have been a good pint

http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubpictures/38683/

There appears to have been some terrible subsidence problems in the Stourbridge area recently.

Quinno
04-01-2011, 15:56
http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/43734/

The latest one here is a good example of when a review isn't actually much use, but is it bad enough to scrub...?

Bucking Fastard
04-01-2011, 16:11
http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/43734/



I may be an old git but can anyone explain what double dragon and jagercoke is exactly for my own education.If it's illegal then there are grounds for deletion otherwise it seems harmless drivel.

Evil Gazebo
04-01-2011, 16:30
I may be an old git but can anyone explain what double dragon and jagercoke is exactly for my own education.If it's illegal then there are grounds for deletion otherwise it seems harmless drivel.

Presume Double Dragon refers to this stuff...

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR8wALB6oCWUB7Ufp0-wpItUq39-79dbozeAX1zsdRnnFywZerfrw

Its makers call it the National Ale of Wales - I've never drunk it myself.

Jägermeister is a German digestif which lately has apparently been adopted by the young as a fashionable drink to down in shots, or with mixers eg coke. Its popularity seems largely based on those enormous machines, with faux gothic script, which offend my eyes in too many pubs. "Jägerbombs" were trendy a while back, whereby a shot glass is floated in a glass of Red Bull, but these are banned in many establishments now due to associated lunacy. It probably helps you to enjoy a "fun as fvck" night out, if that's what you're after.

rpadam
04-01-2011, 16:46
I am going to take the slightly odd step of reporting myself for my review of the Cross Keys in Covent Garden - see here:

http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/22084/

Now, whilst what I said at the end of the review is true, it is not the sort of positive comment that Conrad would prefer to see.

So should it be left on as words of caution to others or be removed?

Bucking Fastard
04-01-2011, 17:07
Mr Gazebo I bow to your greater knowledge of what young folk like drinking,I should have remembered that Felinfoel brewed Double Dragon.In my days that brewery's output was known as "feeling foul"

Al 10000
04-01-2011, 17:09
Hi rpadam,

I think it should be left on, i have been in this pub but if i went in again i would remember your comments and look to see if they were still doing this which i think is wrong.
When i go into a pub i like to see a fresh pint poured for me.

oldboots
04-01-2011, 17:11
It's what you saw so it must be fair comment, and thanks for the warning if I went in there I'd check to make sure I didn't get the same treatment.

Farway
04-01-2011, 17:28
I am going to take the slightly odd step of reporting myself for my review of the Cross Keys in Covent Garden - see here:

http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/22084/

Now, whilst what I said at the end of the review is true, it is not the sort of positive comment that Conrad would prefer to see.

So should it be left on as words of caution to others or be removed?

I think it is fair comment, you posted what you saw, the landlord may not like it, but it was an honest observation and serves as a word of caution to others

Rex_Rattus
04-01-2011, 17:37
I know the Cross Keys very well, and I have to say that I haven't noticed this happening, but I'm often in at noon (i.e. before any residue has had time to accrue in the slops tray). I'm likely to be in again this week so will keep my beady ratty eyes on what is going on. Thanks for the heads up rp. Like others I also feel you should leave it on - you are simply reporting what you observed. But the pub still has a lot going for it, and I live in hope that your experience was an aberration. I may report back when I've visited again.

Conrad
04-01-2011, 17:46
http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/43734/

The latest one here is a good example of when a review isn't actually much use, but is it bad enough to scrub...?
Nah, I think when taken alongside your review they actually compliment each other quite well.


I am going to take the slightly odd step of reporting myself for my review of the Cross Keys in Covent Garden - see here:

http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/22084/

Now, whilst what I said at the end of the review is true, it is not the sort of positive comment that Conrad would prefer to see.

So should it be left on as words of caution to others or be removed?
I think it is fine. If you reporting something that was illegal in the same matter of fact way I would suggest that you should make that report to the relevant authority. But as it is I think it is fair review comment.

gillhalfpint
04-01-2011, 18:15
I'm not sure if I am allowed to do this, and I am sure I will get my wrist slapped if I am not, but I have put below 2 reviews I made on the other side from visits to this pub - http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/31818/

"This is a great looking pub, and it is usually full so something must be right. I was wary about going back as I had been served from glasses on the drip tray that had been standing for a while last time I was there, but my drink was served from the pump, although from where I was standing I could see a glass on one of the trays."

gillhalfpint - 3 Jan 2008 15:07

"We called in last Friday, as we always do when in Oxford, and yes, there was a good range of beers available. I was disturbed to see that they were pouring beer from glasses standing on the drip trays to serve to customers though. When I heard someone say they had received beer this way, I went to watch from the side of the bar and asked staff why they were doing it. I was told the cellar was not cold enough so the beer had to settle. They said it only stood for 10 minutes and if not served to customers it was thrown away. Weird. Wonder how CAMRA would take the practice. I did have beer served straight from the pump on the back bar and it was in excellent condition."

gillhalfpint - 15 Aug 2007 10:48

I did put comments on a stubbie to the relevant CAMRA but never heard anything back.

Quinno
04-01-2011, 18:57
I should have remembered that Felinfoel brewed Double Dragon.In my days that brewery's output was known as "feeling foul"

As a regular visitor to Wales I can confirm that the description above still stands - it's bloody awful stuff that only sells because of that sodding dragon motif (the Welsh Bombardier, perhaps?).

I'm also following the under neck slops tray/glass with interest as this happened to me (for the first time!) in the Grapes in London a few weeks back and I've been limbering up to fire off both barrels in a review fairly soon. It's not necessarily the fact it's in the slops that's the main concern for me; it's the lack of respect. I'm paying good money for my pint and I want it fresh and as close to perfection as the brewer would demand.

You wouldn't see pubs doing this to wine drinkers, would you? Pouring warm wine from one glass into another and topping up... :moremad::moremad:

Rex_Rattus
04-01-2011, 19:20
I was told the cellar was not cold enough so the beer had to settle. They said it only stood for 10 minutes and if not served to customers it was thrown away. Weird.


Weird indeed. Sounds like somebody used to work in Macdonald's! Leaving beer around and throwing it away if it's not been sold in 10 minutes? Doesn't ring true to me, but maybe I'm being a bit cynical.

Strongers
04-01-2011, 20:15
I encountered the same in here (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/22226/).

Maldenman
04-01-2011, 20:52
When I heard someone say they had received beer this way, I went to watch from the side of the bar and asked staff why they were doing it. I was told the cellar was not cold enough so the beer had to settle. They said it only stood for 10 minutes and if not served to customers it was thrown away. Weird. Wonder how CAMRA would take the practice. I did have beer served straight from the pump on the back bar and it was in excellent condition."

gillhalfpint - 15 Aug 2007 10:48

I did put comments on a stubbie to the relevant CAMRA but never heard anything back.


A very suspect response from the barman, when has a cellar ever been warmer than the bar? I've not seen that dubious practice for a long time but I wouldn't put up with it. I make a point of never paying for my pint until it is poured fully and handed over. That way any nonsense can easily be dealt with by a simple shrug and an about turn.

Farway
05-01-2011, 15:23
I have in past seen the pour / top up, but it was not from the slops tray, from memory it was more when large head on pint [filthy Northern habit :D ] and a settled top up was added to fresh pint, so you got 1 pint of beer and not 75% beer 25% froth

Rex_Rattus
08-01-2011, 18:33
I know the Cross Keys very well, and I have to say that I haven't noticed this happening, but I'm often in at noon (i.e. before any residue has had time to accrue in the slops tray). I'm likely to be in again this week so will keep my beady ratty eyes on what is going on. Thanks for the heads up rp. Like others I also feel you should leave it on - you are simply reporting what you observed. But the pub still has a lot going for it, and I live in hope that your experience was an aberration. I may report back when I've visited again.

Well I was in there again yesterday, and I was definitely served a pint direct from the tap with no top up from a glass below the bar. Nor did I see (and I looked) any glasses with beer in them below the bar counter, so I hope that rp's experience might have been a one-off. But I will continue to keep an eye out for this happenning in the future.

runningdog
09-01-2011, 03:03
It seems to me that the practice of topping up a previously half-pulled pint, for whatever reason, is on the increase. I've even seen it in my local JDW but they know better than try to serve me one:mad::moremad:
:drinkup::drinkup::drinkup:

Quinno
21-03-2011, 18:52
After a house-buying hiatus, I am now getting back into the swing of having spare time and adding more reviews from the mass migrate tool.

Anyways, here's a line that made me smile - though I have omitted it from the edited version of the review on PuG, given the slightly higher standards on here!

"A big drinking den designed for the suits and keyboard chimps that inhabit the newly-developed Temple Quays complex, so try the old UV light in the bogs next time you're in and fancy something a bit more adventurous than a pint of Futtocks Old Roarer."

:lol::D:whistle:

Spinko
21-03-2011, 20:09
I've seen this happening (pints brought from back of bar having been pulled some time previous) but only when going to pubs near rugby league grounds whose only profitable days are probably the 13 or 14 home games per season. I don't begrudge it in those instances as I'd rather warm beer that's been left for a little while than no beer at all due to the pub closing. In such circumstances they tend to have a waitress of dubious age constantly pouring pints, and her parents selling them from the back of the bar where she's put them.

Without this practice on such match days the pub would have massive queues, possibly inciting trouble, serve much less beer and be liable to close. I know which I'd prefer - at least it keeps a "viable" pub open..

aleandhearty
21-03-2011, 20:40
After a house-buying hiatus, I am now getting back into the swing of having spare time...

What's this? Mrs Quinno and now Quinno Mansions? Sounds like it won't be long before the Quinnettes appear. Best make good use of that spare time lad, before it goes forever. :D

Andy Ven
21-03-2011, 21:02
Best make good use of that spare time lad, before it goes forever. :D

A&H speaks the truth ;)

Quinno
21-03-2011, 23:13
What's this? Mrs Quinno and now Quinno Mansions? Sounds like it won't be long before the Quinnettes appear. Best make good use of that spare time lad, before it goes forever. :D

LOL, not at this point in time - all the spare cash is going on overpaying the mortgage (bar my ring-fenced beer money) :drinkup:

I should like to point out that Quinno mansions is approximately three minutes walk away from here (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/1691/) :D:D:bemerry::bemerry::bemerry::D:D