List of Popular Pub Names

[ETA]

I note that the current list of popular pub names (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/stats/pubs/pub-names/) stops at 244, with a name that occurs 18 times. Previous lists have had over 250 names on, even as many as 263 (in 2017), though I don't know how many there were at the final name previously. Is it because the list cuts off at 18, or would listing those names which occur 17 times mean an exceptionally long list?

[Blackthorn]

It's got the '17's listed now, and stops at 260.

[ETA]

It's got the '17's listed now, and stops at 260.

Yes, just saw that. I wonder what the algorithm is, though, and whether a bit of basic AI would add any value or just over-complicate things. I see that some things like Forrester/Forester, Hollybush/Holly Bush have changed, while not all the different Brewdogs are grouped due to having the town name in the title. Great fun for those of us with a geeky bent.

[Spinko]

Yes, just saw that. I wonder what the algorithm is, though, and whether a bit of basic AI would add any value or just over-complicate things. I see that some things like Forrester/Forester, Hollybush/Holly Bush have changed, while not all the different Brewdogs are grouped due to having the town name in the title. Great fun for those of us with a geeky bent.

Does a Lion's colour matter? Red Lion/White Lion/The Lion

What about if something is new or old? White Hart/Ye Olde White Harte

It's similar to groupings of given names. John/Jonathan.

AI wont be able to advise you on this. Normal human intelligence would have to provide the rules and oversight.

[Quinno]

Here is a tidier version of list - I tackled many of these issues with Dave back in 2016 for my pub names challenge

https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/stats/challenge/quinno/2016/

I recall we took out chain names like BrewDog as I wanted authentic pub monickers.

[Spinko]

Here is a tidier version of list - I tackled many of these issues with Dave back in 2016 for my pub names challenge

https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/stats/challenge/quinno/2016/

I recall we took out chain names like BrewDog as I wanted authentic pub monickers.

I see Red Lion and Old Red Lion are separated, but Swan has Old Swan in its list :whistle:

[ETA]

I see Red Lion and Old Red Lion are separated, but Swan has Old Swan in its list :whistle:

More interesting anomalies - Red Lion list has at least 8 entries which don't refer to 'Red Lion' at all. Does that mean they are indexed from a field other than the name? Are they legacy names where the name has changed but a reference retained?

[Quinno]

More interesting anomalies - Red Lion list has at least 8 entries which don't refer to 'Red Lion' at all. Does that mean they are indexed from a field other than the name? Are they legacy names where the name has changed but a reference retained?

I suspect it's that. The list may have been created prior to the name change functionality available to the 7 Dwarfs.

If a pub closed, it also knocked it out of my visiting stats!

[Tris39]

Does a Lion's colour matter? Red Lion/White Lion/The Lion

...and Blue (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/21936/). But what about where we have common inclusions in names such as Royal: Royal Flag, Royal Oak, Royal Blenheim, Royal Standard etc?

[Mobyduck]

Does a Lion's colour matter? Red Lion/White Lion/The Lion

I would say with certainty, yes they are different names that happen to share a common word .

[Tris39]

I would say with certainty, yes they are different names that happen to share a common word .

Of course. Like Kings Arms/Head, Kings/Nags Head, Royal/Penderels Oak, Black/Pied Bull. Not sure why Miller and Carter (105), Turtle Bay (108), Cosy Club (114), TGI Fridays (170), Simmons (183) and Popworld (201) are on the list. :confused:

[sheffield hatter]

Not sure why Miller and Carter (105), Turtle Bay (108), Cosy Club (114), TGI Fridays (170), Simmons (183) and Popworld (201) are on the list. :confused:

Probably because accepting them as entries in the main pub guide section of the website but refusing to acknowledge them in the Most Common Pub Names feature would be a) kinda crazy and b) a lot of extra work for no particular benefit.

[Tris39]

Probably because accepting them as entries in the main pub guide section of the website but refusing to acknowledge them in the Most Common Pub Names feature would be a) kinda crazy and b) a lot of extra work for no particular benefit.

You don't say? But if there were 513 branches of Popworld, then the Red Lion would no longer be the most popular pub name.

[sheffield hatter]

You don't say? But if there were 513 branches of Popworld, then the Red Lion would no longer be the most popular pub name.

I wasn't aware of Popworld until you mentioned it. I can go back to that state of bliss without requiring anyone to mess with the list of pub names.

[Pangolin]

I wasn't aware of Popworld until you mentioned it. I can go back to that state of bliss without requiring anyone to mess with the list of pub names.

Pah! - I'm only too well aware of them. Usually in old pubs and never open when I am there, they are a complete nuisance when trying to 'Winfield' somewhere. One day I shall actually go in one...

[Blackthorn]

All this talk of Popworld has made me realise that their Bristol venue is not listed. Although I haven’t been there in it’s current iteration, I did when it was known as Reflex and was presumably much the same with a focus on 80’s music.

From looking at their website though, it seems they don’t open until 9:00pm, so I don’t think it really warrants a listing on a pub website.

[Brainypool]

All this talk of Popworld has made me realise that their Bristol venue is not listed. Although I haven’t been there in it’s current iteration, I did when it was known as Reflex and was presumably much the same with a focus on 80’s music.

From looking at their website though, it seems they don’t open until 9:00pm, so I don’t think it really warrants a listing on a pub website.

And their website calls them “clubs” too. I think they’re just cluttering the site for no reason.

[Tris39]

All this talk of Popworld has made me realise that their Bristol venue is not listed. Although I haven’t been there in it’s current iteration, I did when it was known as Reflex and was presumably much the same with a focus on 80’s music.

From looking at their website though, it seems they don’t open until 9:00pm, so I don’t think it really warrants a listing on a pub website.


And their website calls them “clubs” too. I think they’re just cluttering the site for no reason.

Perhaps best to mark them as shut?

[Pangolin]

Perhaps best to mark them as shut?

Mixed feelings. True they are late night venues, but there are quite a few such on the site. Owned by Stonegate of course, the biggest pub operator in the country, their prime raison d'être is to serve drink (including keg beer), they do not generally charge admission and I can't actually find anywhere they refer to themselves as "clubs". While I would not be sorry to see them go, that opens the old can of worms of how to decide what is and isn't a pub.

[rpadam]

While I would not be sorry to see them go, that opens the old can of worms of how to decide what is and isn't a pub.
I thought our 'rule of thumb' was similar to that used by Camra, i.e. words to the effect of this?


A pub must:
a) be open to and welcome the general public without requiring membership or residency and without charging for admission;
b) serve at least one draught beer or cider; and
c) allow drinking without requiring food to be consumed.

[sheffield hatter]

All this talk of Popworld ... it seems they don’t open until 9:00pm, so I don’t think it really warrants a listing on a pub website.

Not your type of pub, maybe. And certainly not mine. But we're not the only people that browse this site looking for pubs, so I can't see Dave agreeing with the proposal to


mark them as shut

I agree with Richard:



A pub must:
a) be open to and welcome the general public without requiring membership or residency and without charging for admission;
b) serve at least one draught beer or cider; and
c) allow drinking without requiring food to be consumed.

[hondo]

Mixed feelings. True they are late night venues, but there are quite a few such on the site. Owned by Stonegate of course, the biggest pub operator in the country, their prime raison d'être is to serve drink (including keg beer), they do not generally charge admission and I can't actually find anywhere they refer to themselves as "clubs". While I would not be sorry to see them go, that opens the old can of worms of how to decide what is and isn't a pub.

https://www.gmb.org.uk/news/more-than-4,500-stonegate-pubs-at-risk

[Brainypool]

I thought our 'rule of thumb' was similar to that used by Camra, i.e. words to the effect of this?


A pub must:
a) be open to and welcome the general public without requiring membership or residency and without charging for admission;
b) serve at least one draught beer or cider; and
c) allow drinking without requiring food to be consumed.

The one in Wigan charges for admission except on Sundays or if you get there in the first hour of opening. Which is a similar policy to most clubs…

[Spinko]

I thought our 'rule of thumb' was similar to that used by Camra, i.e. words to the effect of this?


A pub must:
a) be open to and welcome the general public without requiring membership or residency and without charging for admission;
b) serve at least one draught beer or cider; and
c) allow drinking without requiring food to be consumed.

Regarding a) aren't there clubs that require you to know a member, or be a member of CAMRA?

[rpadam]

Regarding a) aren't there clubs that require you to know a member, or be a member of CAMRA?
Yes, a few, and others that let people in for one or several visits before requiring membership, or will give admission in return for a small donation, and also various other arrangements.

All in all, the position with clubs is less well defined than for pubs.

[Mobyduck]

Yes, a few, and others that let people in for one or several visits before requiring membership, or will give admission in return for a small donation, and also various other arrangements.

All in all, the position with clubs is less well defined than for pubs.

In which case a line should be drawn and such places shouldn't be on the site, unless anybody of legal age can walk in for a drink at anytime the premises is open for business.

[Bucking Fastard]

In which case a line should be drawn and such places shouldn't be on the site, unless anybody of legal age can walk in for a drink at anytime the premises is open for business.

I know this is a can of worms but I agree with Moby.Once entry is conditional (on payment/membership/CAMRA membership,signing in by member,must purchase a meal,...and so on ) I feel the "club" should not be on this site. Maybe a sister site Clubs Galore would be an idea.

[Komakino]

I know this is a can of worms but I agree with Moby.Once entry is conditional (on payment/membership/CAMRA membership,signing in by member,must purchase a meal,...and so on ) I feel the "club" should not be on this site. Maybe a sister site Clubs Galore would be an idea.

I disagree slightly; I'd posit that the majority of us that contribute to this site in terms of reviews and the forum are card carriers. For those clubs where you can use your Camra membership card for entry, it makes sense to keep them as otherwise some very good venues would be inactivated from the site, and there may be areas where these stand out as very decent real ale venues compared to the local pubs (I'm stating this without evidence by the way). The fact that Camra recognises a Club of the Year, should make at least some of these venues desirable for us tickers to want to visit. To conversely keep, let's say predominantly 'entertainment' (e.g. Popworld) or [chain] 'food-oriented' establishments (e.g. Frankie & Benny's; gastropubs notwithstanding) over these seems a bit silly, and potentially against the actual raison d'etre of the site (i.e. Pubs Galore, not You Can Just Get a Drink There Galore), however, I do accept that definitions are definitions, and adhering to Camra's definition (as posted by Richard above) seems the most sensible option.

[Brainypool]

Tbh I would guess the majority of users of this site will find information about CAMRA approved social clubs to be useful and sharing reviews of them is probably worthwhile. Whereas if we’re being realistic, no one is using this site to find information about their local Popworld or Frankie & Bennys, more likely they just get in the way when we’re trying to put a city centre pub crawl together!

[Tris39]

Pah! One day I shall actually go in one...

Don't forget your glowsticks and Frankie Says... T-shirt. ;)


I did when it was known as Reflex...

A Duran Duran fan?


welcome the general public

I can't remember the last time is was welcomed into a pub, but perhaps that's just me.