View Full Version : CAMRA's top 16 pubs
http://www.camra.org.uk/page.aspx?o=326377
I've been to four - The Harp, Ship and Castle, Bell, and the Beacon (Sarah Hughes yum yum yum) :drinkup: :drinkup: :drinkup: :drinkup:
Can anyone better me? (I am sure they can).
Just the Harp for me. Must get out more :whistle:
aleandhearty
16-09-2010, 14:31
Just the Harp for me. Must get out more
Ditto. :(
Bucking Fastard
16-09-2010, 14:42
Just The Harp and The Knott Bar for me.
Pubsignman
16-09-2010, 14:53
The Harp and Guide Dog for me. Love them both.
None at all, zilch, zero, nuffink for me :o
I expect I will survive this crushing blow, especially as now on the wagon until beginning of October when I am going to a re-union up Stafford way, where I expect to make up for lost drinking time :nishelypished:
Strongers
16-09-2010, 15:04
Just the Harp for me too.
trainman
16-09-2010, 15:09
Bell, Guide Dog, Harp, Royal Oak, Knott Bar.
I've been to Beeston, but pretty sure Crown was off-map, probably due to greedyk association. Sounds very good now though, so will be adding it to the portfolio whilst up that way 15/16Oct. Anyone else visiting Nottingham, sounds like this one, in addition to the excellent Victoria, would certainly make the 5min train to Beeston worthwhile.
ROBCamra
16-09-2010, 15:42
http://www.camra.org.uk/page.aspx?o=326377
I've been to four - The Harp, Ship and Castle, Bell, and the Beacon (Sarah Hughes yum yum yum) :drinkup: :drinkup: :drinkup: :drinkup:
Can anyone better me? (I am sure they can).
Four for me as well Harp, Knott, Taps & Brewery Tap.
Grailhunter
16-09-2010, 16:00
Three for me, the Harp, Taps and the Beacon. Have been to Manchester many times and feel I should have been in the Knott Bar but I can't picture it. Will make sure I get there next time.
Hoping to be in Chester in October for a day with Millay and others so the Brewery Tap will be a must for us then.
Three for me, the Harp, Taps and the Beacon. Have been to Manchester many times and feel I should have been in the Knott Bar but I can't picture it. Will make sure I get there next time.
Hoping to be in Chester in October for a day with Millay and others so the Brewery Tap will be a must for us then.
Much the same as you Grail, can't believe I've not been in the Knott Bar during many trips to Manchester and looking to tick off the Brewery Tap next month. Might make it earlier actually, I'm off to Llandudno tomorrow so might make a Chester trip from there.
trainman
16-09-2010, 16:07
Oooh, that's annoying. Didn't notice Brewery Tap was in Chester, so I should have been there but don't exactly recall - I didn't review any of my pubs that day. Can I up my claim to five& a half?
Soup Dragon
16-09-2010, 16:15
Brewery Tap and Beacon Hotel for me - another pointless list though
trainman
16-09-2010, 16:57
- another pointless list though
Bah! Humbug...
Crossste
16-09-2010, 17:04
Just the Beacon for me too, but a classic night was had on my visit which had to be slept off in the back of my car on the car park.
Oggwyn Trench
16-09-2010, 17:32
2 definites for me the Beacon(years ago must revisit) and the Brewery Tap (will be back in November) , I have been on a few stag weekends in Aber over the years so the chances of me having done the Ship and Castle are high
runningdog
16-09-2010, 19:22
....Must get out more :whistle:
Me too, never been near the Harp, but I've been to the Bell a few times, although not recently..........:drinkup::drinkup::drinkup:
It great to see the Flower Pot in there - shows just what you can do to turn a poor pub around with a bit (actually a lot) of effort.
Managed to visit the Guide Dog for the first time last week, and with the Harp that's just three for me...
Wittenden
16-09-2010, 21:51
It great to see the Flower Pot in there - shows just what you can do to turn a poor pub around with a bit (actually a lot) of effort.
Managed to visit the Guide Dog for the first time last week, and with the Harp that's just three for me...
I went into the Flower Pot years ago, and it was pretty grotty.Seems to be doing great things now. Used the Harp a few times before I realised that I could get to Liverpool Street Station by getting off at london Bridge. I now use the Borough market pubs when I miss my train back to Kent.
another pointless list though
disagree - this list has been voted for by CAMRA members (including me :D) so it has more validity than half a dozen hacks in Guardian's office coming up with a list on a dull Tuesday afternoon...and the pub of the year will emerge from it.
Just the Guide Dog for me.
disagree - this list has been voted for by CAMRA members (including me :D) so it has more validity than half a dozen hacks in Guardian's office coming up with a list on a dull Tuesday afternoon...and the pub of the year will emerge from it.
While lists like these are a good way of targetting certain pubs for a visit, they should be taken with the same pinch of salt as GBG listings, which have two caveats as far as I'm concerned:
First, each region has different standards, so the pubs are only being compared within a region. So while a pub may be the best in its own region, there may be pubs in another region which are "better" (whatever that means) but didn't make the cut because of quotas.
Second, within an area the local CAMRA will inevitably have its own favourites and will either intentionally or accidentally exclude excellent beer pubs whilse includign others - we often see comments in reviews along the lines of "why is/isn't this pub in GBG?". I'm nto suggesting that CAMRA members are showign deliberate bias, but human nature (and often geographic convenience) does sometimes override complete objectivity.
But I'll make it a mission to try the other 15 at some point anyway.
While lists like these are a good way of targetting certain pubs for a visit, they should be taken with the same pinch of salt as GBG listings, which have two caveats as far as I'm concerned:
First, each region has different standards, so the pubs are only being compared within a region. So while a pub may be the best in its own region, there may be pubs in another region which are "better" (whatever that means) but didn't make the cut because of quotas.
Second, within an area the local CAMRA will inevitably have its own favourites and will either intentionally or accidentally exclude excellent beer pubs whilse includign others - we often see comments in reviews along the lines of "why is/isn't this pub in GBG?". I'm nto suggesting that CAMRA members are showign deliberate bias, but human nature (and often geographic convenience) does sometimes override complete objectivity.
But I'll make it a mission to try the other 15 at some point anyway.
Point 1 - yes, that's a fair point. It is done on a regional basis so to say that these are the best 16 pubs in the UK is a bit misleading
Point 2 - well there are a number of factors. I dare say in some branches, what you say is accurate. It isn't in ours, we have a rather more scientific way of selecting our GBG allocations and thus the central southern entry to the last 16 (the Bell at Aldworth). :glass::glass::drinkup:
It isn't in ours, we have a rather more scientific way of selecting our GBG allocations and thus the central southern entry to the last 16 (the Bell at Aldworth). :glass::glass::drinkup:
The branch of which I am a member tries to do it democratically, with each branch member voting for up to a certain number of eligible pubs. "Eligible" means they meet certain criteria, but these can be flexible and are used as a guideline rather than an absolute barrier. What it means is that pubs from across our AOR get voted for but only the top 15 are put forward for GBG. This is where geography comes into effect - because the largest concentration of members lives in Salisbury, the only major town we cover, many people don't get to visit all the outlying villages as much as they do the city pubs. So votes are automatically weighted in favour of the city pubs however much we try to be fair about it. I am quite impressed with the Highlands Branch (whose problem in visiting outlying pubs is much worse than ours) they encourage visiting members to send in their own opinions of pubs in the area using a scoring approach and comments. This enables them (I assume) to consider these less visited pubs a bit more.
In another area I often visit (which I won't name becasue it wouldn't be fair, and I might not know the full picture), I was a little surprised to find excellent beer in at least 3 pubs which were never visited by the local CAMRA, while other, more popular, pubs with worse beer did make the cut. One landlord (a member himself) told me it was very difficult to get the branch to move away from their comfort zone.
Still, no organisation is perfect, and I do tend to use a variety of sources and methods (including blind luck) to decide where to drink. The lists are just another guideline to me, although I understand why a landlord competing for a share of a diminishing market would like to see his pub rated fairly alongside his colleagues and competitors.
Our branch uses a rather scientific scoring method and a spreadsheet with numerous calculations. Anyway, the upshot is that a pub needs 20 visits (at least) and get a beer score of 3+ 80% or more of the time to be eligible for GBG selection. I think this helps get a lot of our members 'out and about'.
I'm charge of the spreadsheet, but I hasten to add that I am more transparent than German World Cup draw! ;)
Since we have so many confessions of CAMRA work here can I point out this thread on promoting PuG (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?2300-Site-promotion) on the off-chance that it strikes a chord with any of you.
gillhalfpint
18-09-2010, 07:14
I believe one CAMRA area makes a list of the pubs in their beer area from the stubbies sent in by their own members and those outside the area, then they do a full survey of the top ones over and above the number they need for the guide. They try to encourage members to visit outlying areas, or have a trip out to visit those pubs off the track to get a fair view of how they are doing.
Selection for GBG made from these results.
When I visit an area I use the CAMRA mag a lot to discover other pubs in the area to visit as well as GBG pubs.
trainman
18-09-2010, 08:35
many people don't get to visit all the outlying villages as much as they do the city pubs... so votes are automatically weighted in favour of the city pubs however much we try to be fair about it.
Not a very progressive outlook - especially as CAMRA folk (I thought) ought to be seeking real ale beyond their regular watering holes.
They try to encourage members to visit outlying areas, or have a trip out to visit those pubs off the track to get a fair view of how they are doing.
Much more like it, and surely much more enjoyable?
Not a very progressive outlook - especially as CAMRA folk (I thought) ought to be seeking real ale beyond their regular watering holes.
We do try, and minibus trips are laid on occasionally using branch funds. But clearly this can't happen too often. Th eother prolem is that public transport here is nto too good, and there are people who don't drive. Whatever we do, there will always be a bias.
Soup Dragon
18-09-2010, 09:04
Not a very progressive outlook - especially as CAMRA folk (I thought) ought to be seeking real ale beyond their regular watering holes.
Much more like it, and surely much more enjoyable?
I forgot - i did the Flower Pot as well.
I seek out country pubs - being honest, i will go into any pub - but i do my bit for the rural pub.
Despite being humbuggy ;) I still think these things, whilst fun, are pointless.
I am a CAMRA member and i wouldn't trust CAMRA member's views on anything. They elect pubs to go in GBG because; they think it looks nice, it has always been in, it has 1003 handpulls (aka handpumps) so it must be good (Spoons?????), our CAMRA mates run it, it is good for a beer after watching the Villa......... ad nauseam.
In short how can you vote for a region's best pub, if you have not been in all the others to compare. I could vote for Lichfield's, or certain other towns, as i have done them all - but not 1 pub for the midlands - most of those midlanders voting have never done but a smattering of the midlands.
I await the next list and thread to go along with it.:D
trainman
18-09-2010, 11:04
I forgot - i did the Flower Pot as well.
Was it that one? Not the one at Cheriton?
Strongers
18-09-2010, 12:48
Not a very progressive outlook - especially as CAMRA folk (I thought) ought to be seeking real ale beyond their regular watering holes.
I probably don't know as much about CAMRA as I should, pubs being my passion and all that, but I would have thought that a landlord of a pub that has put the effort into his ales and made his pub such a pleasant place to drink that it would be in the top quota for the region would contact his local branch and invite them to come visit. I think it would be folly to run a pub in the back end of nowhere and expect someone with some influence to just stumble in.
I probably don't know as much about CAMRA as I should, pubs being my passion and all that, but I would have thought that a landlord of a pub that has put the effort into his ales and made his pub such a pleasant place to drink that it would be in the top quota for the region would contact his local branch and invite them to come visit. I think it would be folly to run a pub in the back end of nowhere and expect someone with some influence to just stumble in.
You may be right, but what about "build it & they will come"?
The self promotion, as we all know from PuG, can be self defeating
gillhalfpint
18-09-2010, 23:21
Wondered how a Wolverhampton pub got in GBG. When I went in and looked for the real ale I was told they only have it in on match days when Wolves are at home. Maybe they put a spread on for CAMRA meetings.
trainman
19-09-2010, 09:24
Wolverhampton pub in GBG. real ale only on match days
That really is disgraceful! The branch should be utterly ashamed.
Soup Dragon
19-09-2010, 10:27
Was it that one? Not the one at Cheriton?
Yes, Squire - the one at Cheriton - oh! and the one in Derby!
Soup Dragon
19-09-2010, 10:27
Wondered how a Wolverhampton pub got in GBG. When I went in and looked for the real ale I was told they only have it in on match days when Wolves are at home. Maybe they put a spread on for CAMRA meetings.
Which place was that, Gillhp?
I probably don't know as much about CAMRA as I should, pubs being my passion and all that, but I would have thought that a landlord of a pub that has put the effort into his ales and made his pub such a pleasant place to drink that it would be in the top quota for the region would contact his local branch and invite them to come visit. I think it would be folly to run a pub in the back end of nowhere and expect someone with some influence to just stumble in.
It took me a year to get the two neighbouring CAMRA branches to sort out whose territory we're in, although that was probably more to the very small number of people in the Brecknock branch (who we're in). Then it was a case of inviting the group up for a Christmas do with a complimentary curry. They admitted, again due to their size, that getting the whole area covered was a problem. I'm happy to report the size of the group is growing and monthly minibus outings are in the pipeline to get to those areas that have been neglected for a while!
Just spotted this blog post from a swift one go (http://www.aswiftone.com/2010/09/beer-guide-shock.html) by in our blog tracker.
May be of some interest since it discusses what they consider to be some surprise omissions/drops from the GBG.
oldboots
20-09-2010, 17:39
Just spotted this blog post from a swift one go (http://www.aswiftone.com/2010/09/beer-guide-shock.html) by in our blog tracker.
May be of some interest since it discusses what they consider to be some surprise omissions/drops from the GBG.
I don't know the thinking in the Huddersfield branch any more than Swift One but my advice to him and anyone else who's not satisfied with the GBG listing for their area is join CAMRA and go to the bloody meetings or fill in a report on NBSS if you can't face drinking with big bellied bearded men in sandals (disappointingly there's none in our branch BTW). It is meant to be democratic and open to all so if you don't join in you can't moan.
"whilst I don't know anything about the selection process as I don't get involved, I still feel fully entitled to moan that my favourite pub isn't in there..."
I know that feeling from my branch! As OB said, any CAMRA member can score their beers on NBSS and attend their local branches meetings (as a last resort!).
What a lot of people fail to realise is that (for example) a large chunk of the 2011 guide is based on beer scores from 2009 (for branches that do it that way - which they all should, really). Yes, that's right - I had to submit my branches' choices in January 2010, based on beer drunk in 2009, for a Guide entitled GBG 2011 - go figure!!
So a pub that has done well since January this year will not feature. That's why PuG (and BITE, back in the day) are an absolute must-visit in order to plan a city crawl for up-to-date info.
aleandhearty
21-09-2010, 10:24
What a lot of people fail to realise is that (for example) a large chunk of the 2011 guide is based on beer scores from 2009 (for branches that do it that way - which they all should, really). Yes, that's right - I had to submit my branches' choices in January 2010, based on beer drunk in 2009, for a Guide entitled GBG 2011 - go figure!!
If that's true, I'm genuinely shocked. Surely with the financial clout that CAMRA now has, it can come up with something less antediluvian.
ROBCamra
21-09-2010, 10:45
If that's true, I'm genuinely shocked. Surely with the financial clout that CAMRA now has, it can come up with something less antediluvian.
Similar in our branch except that members suggestions for inclusion have to be submitted by the end of the 1st week in January.
All suggested pubs are then visited during January by a team of branch members.
Final selection meeting is at the end of January.
So basically 2009 suggestions plus a snapshot in January 2010 go into the GBG 2011 which is actually released to us Direct Debit members in September 2010.
I've had mine since the 2nd or 3rd of September.
They actually sell more GBGs in the 2 months leading up to Xmas than the rest of the year put together (present for Dad, Uncle etc). Hence the early submissions.
They actually sell more GBGs in the 2 months leading up to Xmas than the rest of the year put together (present for Dad, Uncle etc). Hence the early submissions.
which is why I guess they won't be changing tack anytime soon.
To be honest, with modern technology, I would have thought that getting branch submissions in early April for August printing would be do-able now seeing as entries are now submitted online...so simple even I can do it :muppet::muppet:
If that's true, I'm genuinely shocked. Surely with the financial clout that CAMRA now has, it can come up with something less antediluvian.
Yes, I am after all sure that being antediluvian was banned by the Shadow Proclamation.
apologies for another Doctor Who joke
trainman
21-09-2010, 11:45
The title of the tome has always seemed wrong to me - GBG2011 cannot be printed in 2010; that suggests CAMRA have a coven of soothsayers.
GBG2010 for pubs researched up to, and during, 2010!
The title of the tome has always seemed wrong to me - GBG2011 cannot be printed in 2010; that suggests CAMRA have a coven of soothsayers.
GBG2010 for pubs researched up to, and during, 2010!
This is one of those things that seemed to change about a decade ago. I am sure when I was a kid at Christmas I used to get the Beano annual for the year just gone, now you get it for the year just coming and it is the same with everything. Isn't the Guinness book of records you get at Christmas for the year ahead as well now?
All makes no sense to me either.
This is one of those things that seemed to change about a decade ago. I am sure when I was a kid at Christmas I used to get the Beano annual for the year just gone, now you get it for the year just coming and it is the same with everything. Isn't the Guinness book of records you get at Christmas for the year ahead as well now?
All makes no sense to me either.
I reckon this all started with monthly magazines, once upon a time the December issue came out 1st December, gradually crept back so now December issue is on 1st July {i may have slightly exaggerated here]
I reckon this all started with monthly magazines, once upon a time the December issue came out 1st December, gradually crept back so now December issue is on 1st July {i may have slightly exaggerated here]
This has been like it in all the time I have known. My first job was a paper delivery boy and I eventually graduated to working in the corner shop. Point being we always knew the dates on magazines as off-shelf dates. So if you were at the date displayed on the magazine you should take it off the shelf as the new issue should be out.
runningdog
21-09-2010, 18:28
I am sure when I was a kid at Christmas I used to get the Beano annual for the year just gone, now you get it for the year just coming and it is the same with everything..
All of which suggests that there's a Beano Annual missing some year or aother:drinkup:..........
All of which suggests that there's a Beano Annual missing some year or aother:drinkup:..........
Oh no, Julian to Gregorian calendar anyone?
Maybe this explains why magazines etc come out two months early, they are still using Julian calendar
http://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/news.ma/article/88375
runningdog
22-09-2010, 08:49
Oh no, Julian to Gregorian calendar anyone?
Best not go there, Farway, we bluidy near had a civil war the first time:drinkup::drinkup:
Give me back my lost annuals..........
gillhalfpint
22-09-2010, 11:02
The magazine situation is very frustrating for such as us travelling round the country. When you travel north from Cornwall to say Yorkshire, the TV mag is local to Cornwall, and you find you cannot buy the current weeks mag from the shelves as the following weeks issue is already there.
All of which suggests that there's a Beano Annual missing some year or aother:drinkup:..........
Sorry, I know it is sad of me, but I have actually been mulling this.
I have a feeling that at some point 20 years back they did Summer annuals as well for a few years, back when comics were on a bit of a roll before computers got going. If this is the case then they could have pulled the switcheroo one Summer.
Evil Gazebo
22-09-2010, 13:10
According to Wikipedia's Beano Annual page (I really do have too much time on my hands), "they are traditionally published in August, in time for Christmas, and since 1965 they have had the date of the following year on the cover. Before then no date was given."
According to Wikipedia's Beano Annual page (I really do have too much time on my hands), "they are traditionally published in August, in time for Christmas, and since 1965 they have had the date of the following year on the cover. Before then no date was given."
Just me spreading foul allegations then :o
gillhalfpint
22-09-2010, 19:12
Fond memories of Beano when it was 2d weekly, and the papershop used to have a Christmas Club and I put the odd 6d if spare to save up for the Beano annual in case we didn't get it for Xmas. Oor Wullie and Broons were popular too.
Got a bag full of old Beano annuals that I dragged out of the attic on a clearout. Not worth much as we used to read them, not save them and they are a bit worn. Might bring them in to get the dates off them.
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