24 Hour drinking to be banned ?

[arwkrite]

Well that was the headline yesterday.People asked me if I knew any pubs open for 24 hours. I think they may have missed the point of the legislation but you make allowances living this far out in the sticks.My town has no social or night clubs, just five straightforward pubs They open at 11 am and usually close at 11pm. Afternoon opening is standard where as before they closed and customers , if they so wished,purchased any extra from the super market. I see no more drunks toddling home than I did as a copper forty years ago, yes there are some but its no big deal.Groups of late teens /early twenties can be noisy but not overly troublesome.
Being a solitary Grumpy Old Man I do most of my pub drinking in the afternoon and / or early evening with a similar bunch of Grumpies putting the world to rights. No trouble as long as we keep off the subject of other mens wives or bits on the side. Religion and Politics are pretty boring these days.It is an informal club that under the old licensing laws would not be available to us.
I think far to much media attention has been on the vomit covered streets of city centers, caused by binge drinking youngsters and middle aged who should know better.The councils are closing social centres for the older ones, and selling the sites to Tesco. The pub is once again becoming a meeting place throughout the day for the pensioner, well they have to go somewhere untill some bright spark decides those over working age can be economicaly and painlessly put down.I forgot, most of you lot will have to work till you drop.:p

Here starteth Arwkites Aimless Saturday Ramble off to the pub:drinkup:

[gillhalfpint]

Off to the pub is what afternoons are for.

Agree with everything you said Arwkite. Time to get my pass out and sign off for the afternoon.

[Farway]

The only open 24 hour pub around here is the Ship & Castle at the Ferry Port http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/67526/ but that is understandable for the dock workers and travelers

Otherwise in my immediate locality it is much as Arwkrite says, but open at noon. There is a local Social Club but I am no longer a member [was too smokeyfor me back then]

Of course there are problems around the pubs & bars in Portsmouth city centre, however I understood the police preferred all the clubs etc in one place? Then they know just where to be on hand. Many years ago there were clubs & pubs in Southsea catering for the spewing youths and matelots, now they are mainly clustered around the Guildhall area, and handy for the students as well

I also belong to the lunchtime / afternoon crowd

[Millay]

I think 24 hour drinking should be banned. I mean I can do an 8 hour stint quite easily and have been known to go to 12 on special occasions. I guess if pushed I could manage 14 or 15 but 24 hours is just silly :whistle:

[ptg]

It's not just 24 hour drinking that should be repealed - the licensing reform on the whole has created a joke industry, and as a licensee, I preferred having to prove myself to a magistrate rather than just being given a card in return for cash from the local council.

[oldboots]

I've said it before and I'll say it again giving council Hitlers licensing powers was a stupid idea based on a fake premise wrapped in a lie, Result total disaster.

24 hour drinking is a convenient hook for toilet paper like the Daily Mail* to get upset about to its ignorant readers, Nu Labour idea = end of civilisation as we know it. There aren't many places with 24 hour licenses and it's got bugger all to do with drunken youths puking and fighting in city/town centres. Who cares if it's banned? It matters as much as me breaking wind and if closing time becomes set at the same hour for everywhere again then the polis will have back the same the old problems of hordes of drunken youth falling out onto the streets at the same time, fighting each other for kebabs and taxis. Staggered closing times is a much better idea but shitferbrains journos pandering to f*ckwits ain't going to accept that. It's in the same league as "prison works" or "the cheque's in the post" or "I'll wont come:eek:mouth".

*Come to think of it the MAIL etc are much too dirty to wipe MY very dirty arse on.:mad::mad::mad:

[NickDavies]

What 24 hour drinking? "24 hour drinking" is a favourite target of the tabloids and those who believe what they read in them. The nonsense spoken about 'continental cafe culture' at the time of the reforms hasn't helped matters. In fact there are a tiny number of 24 hour drinking establishments, and the vast majority of 24 hour licences are held by all night supermarkets, exactly the places where the tabloid reading masses get their cheap booze.

The real cause of today's town centre problems was the fashion in the 1990s for councils to promote their 'night-time economy' and hand out planning consent no questions asked to any pub or bar operator that asked, producing entire strips of Litten Trees, Yates's, Walkabouts, All Bar ones, Wetherspoons, Tiger Tigers and and all the rest, and granting them semi-permanent late licences at the weekends. And it worked, moving thousands of mainly younger people into town every night who would previously used their traditional local pubs.

Changing the licensing laws won't make a blind bit of difference to town centre problems at weekends. Getting rid of 75% of those pubs, most of which we'll never miss because we'd never dream of going in them, would make all the difference.

[Conrad]

I'm with ob, started trying to write a post, realised I didn't know enough and couldn't make eloquent enough - but that post is what I was aiming for.

[Wittenden]

[QUOTE=NickDavies;16764]What 24 hour drinking? "24 hour drinking" is a favourite target of the tabloids and those who believe what they read in them. The nonsense spoken about 'continental cafe culture' at the time of the reforms hasn't helped matters.


I know I haven't travelled much abroad, and I didn't tend to go to the costas, but I didn't go a bunndle on continental cafes. They didn't, to me at any rate, seem conducive to a pleasant session-it seemed to be more a case of one drink and out. Also, in Italy at any rate, they all seemed to shut at around 10pm. Give me a proper English pub with a traditional landlord and land lady any time!

[Alesonly]

As a shift worker that often don't Finnish work Until 01:45 am in the Morning I can not find one ordinary Pub open anywhere in North London too get a drink at around 02:00 in the morning. :moremad:
And they call this a 24 Hour city

[NickDavies]

[QUOTE=Wittenden;16772

I know I haven't travelled much abroad, and I didn't tend to go to the costas, but I didn't go a bunndle on continental cafes. They didn't, to me at any rate, seem conducive to a pleasant session-it seemed to be more a case of one drink and out. Also, in Italy at any rate, they all seemed to shut at around 10pm. ![/QUOTE]

The sort of people who speak of continental cafe culture are the sort of people whose experience revolves around their second homes in the Dordogne and Tuscany, people like MPs and TV presenters and even Daily Mail journalists. Such places are designed for daytime refreshment and early evening aperitifs and what 24 hour licensing has got to do with it is unfathomable. As you say you're hard pushed to find anywhere open late even in a largish town unless there's a university.

I doubt they were thinking of Spain, where tapas crawling is a national obsession, many people don't think of going out till about 11PM and in summer outside bars spring up in the larger towns which stay open till about 6AM on weekends. Having a two hour kip in the afternoon helps.

[Eddie86]

It's not just 24 hour drinking that should be repealed - the licensing reform on the whole has created a joke industry, and as a licensee, I preferred having to prove myself to a magistrate rather than just being given a card in return for cash from the local council.

Completely agree - it was WAY to easy for me to get a license. 24 hour drinking I'd keep - the only one I know of was in Nottingham, and never had any problems because they wouldn't serve drunks, and were very strict on it. At the end of a night of clubbing as designated driver, it was nice to know I could then go around the corner and have a couple of pints before bed.

Now my pub regularly stays open til midnight at weekends, and on special occasions later. But in the deep midwinter, we can be shut some nights by 10pm (the earliest we close). It's the flexibility I like - just because I can stay open til 3 certainly doesn't mean I do. It just legalised the lock-in in my point of view.

[Wittenden]

Heard a lovely peice on 'From our own correspondant' about a 90 year old landlord in some town on the west coast of Ireland who opened about 1030, or maybe 1130 if he had chores to do, closed for lunch from 1 to 2, re opende and then shut again for his tea. For some reason he also sold groceries and loose teas, which he blended and repacked. Sounds like my sort of pub, if you ignore the Guiness.

[ptg]

I agree with that Eddie, and we do much the same - much to the cry of "you're licensed until 0030, you're breaking the law" when some little so and so doesn't get their own way.

The binge drinking culture is something that needs to be addressed.. My proposal:

TEACH - teach children from a young age that alcohol is something to be enjoyed responsibly
ALLOW - allow children alcohol from a young age to get a taste, and a respect for it - a glass of wine with every meal, with the whole family.
SHARE - share the experience of drinking with the young, when they hit puberty, take them to the pub, and enjoy the experience of drinking, be with them when they first get pissed, and be there to laugh off their first hangover.

That's what would sort out the binge drinking culture, but unfortunately it hinges on the whole social situation, of families not being too busy for each other, and so forth.

Staggered closing is both a blessing and a curse - having worked in central London on nightclub doors, dealing with other venue's fall-out when there's no Police around to control it can be a hairy time, but with good policing, is a good concept.

The whole act needs looking at, but so does the bigger picture. Nearly all "normal" venues that I know of (that are lucky enough to still be around) haven't changed from their pre-2003 hours; midnight licenses and 2am licenses were being handed out at this time, and it seems to be what most places have today.

[HTM69]

OK, so does this mean we’ll be going back to the traditional 11 a.m. – 11 p.m. Monday to Saturday routine and then 11 a.m. – 10.30 p.m. on a Sunday?

My friends and I are rarely in the pub beyond 11, anyway. We have a couple of local late-night haunts, but then they’ve always been open ‘till the early hours. It doesn’t seem like I’d be affected to much this.

[ptg]

in reality, that's something that had started phasing out, with regular late licenses being issued. In all honesty, the only thing we'd sacrifice would be an extra hour on friday nights.. which means I get a lay in.

Personally, I don't think a complete reppeal is needed, just a major review, and pubs to be judged on a case by case basis; magistrates are the key though, as has been said, making licensing a form of taxation has diluted it too much..

[Eddie86]

I think what they need to do is look at how many VDEs are in one place and start limiting that. Why have a street of noisy, JDW-esque pubs where the policy is pack em in and give them cheap booze.

Once a certain street/town/city centre has a certain amount of that type of venue no more should be allowed. Different licenses for different pubs. Complicated, but fairer. If I was a cask ale pub in a street full of the aforementioned VDEs I'd be pissed at having to pay a levy for drunken late night behaviour if it was coming from lager sodden customers of the other pub. If it was my customers, I wouldn't mind paying, but id rather not have the customers like that in the first place!

[Farway]

Once a certain street/town/city centre has a certain amount of that type of venue no more should be allowed. Different licenses for different pubs. !

I think what you are suggesting is Back to the Future, in the 60, and before, local publicans could object to another licence. This system was sorely abused by the breweries defending their local monopoly.

Iit took the Churchillian, Portsmouth http://www.churchillian.co.uk/ years of fighting the then Brickwood's brewery to get a licence, despite being in a nearly complety pub free area, Brickwoods & the tied publicans just wanting to hang onto the monopoly they enjoyed

http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/13546/

[Conrad]

I think what they need to do is look at how many VDEs are in one place and start limiting that. Why have a street of noisy, JDW-esque pubs where the policy is pack em in and give them cheap booze.

To be clear I know nothing about the licensing system (or indeed what a VDE is?). On the surface though I have no problem with them clustering the noisy pubs, preferably away from where people live and supplied with a decent transport system, one of those things where I am more than happy for them not to distribute the misery.

[Maldenman]

I think the biggest problem with this policy is that it packs town centres with younger and boisterous drinkers and all the issues that go with that including detering older or quieter people from going into town on certain evenings and the use of resources from police , ambulance service etc.

I'm guessing here but I reckon a VDE is a Vertical Drinking Establishment? :confused:

[Conrad]

I suppose I don't think that it makes them any worse packing them into one place, just means that you know where they will be. But I take your point, it could just lead to the creation of powder kegs.

[NickDavies]

Which is what I was on about....VDEs were actively courted by local authorities around 20 years ago to promote their 'night-time economies' in the belief that it would bring people and employment to otherwise deserted town centres. It did both but the law of unintended consequences operates. Town centres are now actively avoided at weekends by many, a large amount of business is generated for the police and NHS, and many local pubs in suburbs and surrounding villages have had enough of their clientele sucked away by the bright lights - those young enough not yet to have kids and therefore have a few bob in their pockets - to become unviable, leaving the rest of us high and dry.

[ptg]

I'm guessing here but I reckon a VDE is a Vertical Drinking Establishment? :confused:

As opposed to HDE? Most places, I start in one, and end up seeing it the opposite way round by teh end of a good night//

[gillhalfpint]

Oh boy, am I glad I am an afternoon drinker.

We toured Southern Ireland a couple of years ago and went into a shop that had a bar out the back door.

A pub on the far west of the dingle peninsula became a brewpub while we were there.

[Eddie86]

Sorry, VDE = Verticle Drinking Establishment.

When I was *ahem* 16, I went to 1 of 3 pubs in the town that would serve me. The publican's were all members of the dodgy handshake group, as was my dad. I knew, without anything being said, that if I got in the slightest bit of bother in one of the pubs my dad would have something to say with the back of his hand. I can still remember the night when one of the landlords let my friends and I have a 4th pint!

Nowadays, large bald-headed men stand outside the VDEs making sure nobody can experience it unless they're 18, at which point they are ushered in and provided with a wide choice of ways to get as drunk as possible as cheaply as possible. Make that 1 pub into a street of VDEs and you have Daily Wail cannon-fodder. The guy on the outskirts, sadly mistaken in the thought that cheaper drinks will bring more customers, provides exactly the same drinks at slightly higher prices. A pub owner with a bit of nonce will provide something different, be it different lagers or gastro food or a skittles alley etc etc. Obviously the tie has not helped matters but the amount of pubs offering the same old same old means lessons haven't been learnt yet.

My 2p

[Farway]

pub owner with a bit of nonce will provide something different, be it different lagers or gastro food or a skittles alley etc etc. Obviously the tie has not helped matters but the amount of pubs offering the same old same old means lessons haven't been learnt yet.


Oddly enough I was in the Farmer at Catherington this lunchtime,the landlord was telling me how Fuller's want him to be "themed" and be more wine bar, thus same old same old. He has wisely decided that a country style pub, with varied menu [wild boar stew for instance] is more in keeping with the area & customers. I agree with him

[arwkrite]

"a country style pub, with varied menu [wild boar stew for instance] is more in keeping with the area & customers." quote Farway.

Corr you get some class road kill down your way. All we get is fricassee of rabbit ,pigeon or the odd hedgehog. But at least its wild, or at least mildly annoyed.

[Farway]

Well, here's a surprise, a politician has got her facts wrong on 24 hour drinking and lawlessness, who would have thought it :whistle:?

http://www.fullfact.org/articles/home_office_retracts_alcohol_crime_claim

[arwkrite]

Brownhills ,Staffs one of my early places of residence, was recently named the gun capitol of England as a result of a misinterpreted question under the FoI Act. It transpired one youth gassed 8 classmates with a CS canister during the time of the study. There is so much data being collected, by so many agencies using different criteria how is any of it to be applied to a standard bench mark. By the sounds of this report all the Police Forces are individually collecting information which can only be used at a National Level with a great deal of effort.More overtime for somebody. Ministers love these statistics but few know how to read them because researchers do everything for them. I love it when they fall on their well padded backsides.
Talking of well padded a Govt Minister has said obese people should be called fat. Fine by me , I look in the the bathroom mirror and see a fat bloke. I am just glad I am no longer obese because thin people would laugh at me before I punched them in the face.