Monthly Stats: June 2010

[Dave M]

In June 2010 there were 145,000 visits to the site, very marginally down on May - but it does appear from some stats we can see that other similar sites may have taken a bit more of a traffic hit so we are quite happy with staying steady. The figure is also nicely up on the 122,000 we had in June 2009 which is the important thing to measure against.

Typically weekends are less busy than weekdays when it comes to the number of visitors, so the slowest two days were June 12th (which coincided with England v USA) and June 27th (England v Germany). The slowest weekday was June 23rd (England v Slovenia).

Oddly enough the day of the Algeria game (June 18th) was pretty much exactly the same as every other Friday in the month although the pattern was that it was busier than would be usual during the day time. So my guess would be lots of people were in offices on the afternoon arranging which pub to visit.

Activity for the month on the site was:-
3136 photos of 1309 pubs
985 reviews added of which 407 were virgin reviews
411 new pubs suggested
491 map points corrected
347 web links suggested
181 new users joined
32 beer festivals suggested
184 pubs reported closed
30 pubs reported open

This compares to June 2009 when we had:-
2607 photos of 1230 pubs
321 reviews added
158 new pubs suggested
280 map points corrected
140 web links suggested
123 new users joined
53 beer festivals suggested

Not entirely surprisingly the World Cup also helped make the forums here a little busier with 1617 posts, slightly up on the previous 2 months.

[Andy Ven]

So:
How many pubs are currently listed?
How many have at least one review?
How many have a least one photo?
How many have neither?

[Conrad]

So:
How many pubs are currently listed?
4,810 closed
52,641 open


So:
How many have at least one review?
Of the open: 14,100


So:
How many have a least one photo?
Of the open: 30,105


So:
How many have neither?
Of the open: 21,240

As an extra stat, of our listings 40,501 have some form of user contribution (was added by someone/ has a review or photo)

[Andy Ven]

That surprises me in that I would have thought that the coverage was higher, although the information you gave a while ago about different counties highlights that there are well covered clusters around connurbations (such as where I live) which would skew the perception of people such as me.

http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?2018-The-updated-County-Information

My suggestion to raise the profile of Pubs Galore would be to go back to the beermat idea (I have a mate who works in advertising who could price/design/source etc) and target certain pubs with your beermats on the day that they have their local CAMRA branch meeting (beer tickers and pub spotters must be related!) or a beer festival.

[Conrad]

I have been playing most of the day with heat map tools to try and create a graphic representation of what you asked, sadly any of the tools out there wont handle the amount of data we have (or require us to pay or use different technology). Basically most of England is very well represented, and then as you get into Scotland, N. Ireland and Wales, the information disappears.

In terms of the PuG profile my primary concern is that we get the site represented higher on Google (which I live in hope that one day Dave will do a post on). Getting us top 3 on Google is worth 1,000's of visitors a day for pub searches (in fact I think 10,000's, but again that is Dave's thing) and should be able to be done at low/no cost. For now the site is a hobby site, and a long way off having a revenue stream that could justify paying for anything. At the point we can ask publicans to pay for an enhanced service I think things like promotional beer mats will suddenly really come into their own.

Working with other sites has huge potential for us, I would like to work more closely with CAMRA, and hopefully we will gradually build some ties there. Working with Kake and the Randomness London site has been a pleasure, and is the sort of thing that I think is probably most positive at this point.

There is also the slightly thorny issue of the fact that the site needs to be improved to a level that could deal with more traffic. Whilst the technically the site itself would cope fine, the admin time could bring all development to a halt. The current changes we are doing to the site are constantly with an eye to allowing other people to take on some of the admin. We don't want to end up in a situation where we never update the sites content :whistle:

My real concern at the moment is ensuring everyone already here keeps on enjoying the site and any building we do on that base is brilliant.

[Millay]

In terms of the PuG profile my primary concern is that we get the site represented higher on Google (which I live in hope that one day Dave will do a post on). Getting us top 3 on Google is worth 1,000's of visitors a day for pub searches (in fact I think 10,000's, but again that is Dave's thing) and should be able to be done at low/no cost. .............

...............Working with other sites has huge potential for us, I would like to work more closely with CAMRA, and hopefully we will gradually build some ties there. Working with Kake and the Randomness London site has been a pleasure, and is the sort of thing that I think is probably most positive at this point.


How do you achieve that Top 3 spot Conrad? Is it a chicken and egg thing based on how many Google users click on a PG link from their search engine, or is it determined simply by the number of people visiting the site, from whatever route.

From what you are saying it seems that whilst physical advertising and promotion in actual pubs might increase the coverage and the number of pubs with reviews, the commercial value/success of the site is more to do with hits and its position within search engines. I’m sensing that you don’t think better coverage would necessarily lead to more hits and that you need to concentrate on getting PuG links onto other related sites. Would that be a fair summing up?

[Millay]

How do you achieve that Top 3 spot Conrad?

Well we do have one Top 3 spot. I just entered Hildens Gael Rua into Google and our 'Bloody Awful Beer of the Week' thread was in third spot, out of 3,880 results :)

[Conrad]

How do you achieve that Top 3 spot Conrad? Is it a chicken and egg thing based on how many Google users click on a PG link from their search engine, or is it determined simply by the number of people visiting the site, from whatever route.

From what you are saying it seems that whilst physical advertising and promotion in actual pubs might increase the coverage and the number of pubs with reviews, the commercial value/success of the site is more to do with hits and its position within search engines. I’m sensing that you don’t think better coverage would necessarily lead to more hits and that you need to concentrate on getting PuG links onto other related sites. Would that be a fair summing up?
Best if Dave answers this one in full with a Google based thread. But as that wont be coming in the next couple of days, my attempt at it.

Firstly, your summing up is broadly speaking fair.

The Google issue is a pain in the arse, basically they can get some information on our traffic but the major contributor is linking from other sites (but yes, traffic & activity, time taken and their concept of relevance are all also factors).

So all the great reviews help in that they make us more relevant, they make people spend longer on the site, and they express as activity (the page is changing - also good with photos). The biggy though is good links from well regarded sites, and this one is a little bit of a self fulfilling prophecy, in that if someone is looking for information to plug into their blog, article or tweet they go to Google, type their search and then link to the most prominent site in the search that they think is relevant, thus reinforcing that sites popularity.

So we need to tart around for links and get the word out on the Internet. Traditionally this is done through link exchanges, but we really do want this site to actually be good, hence we have not really gone in for that (despite the constant recent invites to link exchange with a Cypriot holiday site).

We unconditionally show links on PuG we think they are worthy. On a good day we will get a link back hence my kind words for Randomness London, who gave us some superb links back (and also where the benefit comes for us/them in cross linking to branch CAMRA sites). As an aside, this is why most sites like ours will charge to show links to official sites, the publicans are then sold the link on the basis that it will improve their position in Google. We believe in not charging as it makes our pages more relevant and useful for the site users we hope (although doesn't make the pages more relevant to Google currently, forward links are not considered in their search page rankings).

I think my only concern is you mentioning "commercial value/success", which whilst entirely true I want to make it clear that this is not the key emphasis of the site, just a criteria on whether it is worth forking out real money to promote the site. I would like us to be a commercial success, and I would like the site to earn enough money to run itself and pay me and Dave a salary, but the key target for me is to have the best pub website, so the site will carry on even if it is not a commercial success. If commercial decisions were the key motivator we would bombard with ads and target a Hitwise award :whistle:

[Millay]

Thanks for the explanation Conrad and I fully understand about the low-key commercial aspect of the site, I think that’s what attracted many of us.

[Andy Ven]

It seems to me that BitE v PuG is like VHS v Betamax and I don't understand why BitE often appears above PuG in Google search results.

On the odd occasion I do visit BitE I have to say I get irritated by pop up adverts and I'm glad you haven't gone down that route.

I recognise that the more people who post reviews the more work would result for the admins and it may also mean that quality may be sacrificed for quantity - I think the reviews on PuG are of a good overall standard and I wouldn't want that to diminish.

I have tried about a dozen other sites (such as local CAMRA branches) and pointed out that you host a link to their web page on the relevant town page and asked that they reciprocate but unfortunately only one has ever responded :-(

[Conrad]

Sadly search engine placement is like fashion, key players dictate it and then everyone copies. BITE has just been there longer and part of the reason it stays there is because it is there. A long time back it more than deserved it, if I understand correctly it was set up by a group of people who enjoyed reviewing pubs and opened their system up. Over time however they found themselves unable to administer it and let it stagnate. At some point it was sold on - I believe as a commercial proposition and I am guessing didn't perform as hoped, and now appear to be stagnating again (although with more advertising). My definition of stagnation here is that the site is not evolving and receives very few data updates.

To be clear that is all my interpretation and could all be completely wrong.

Whilst I hope to be commercial with this site, I also hope to protect it a little by trying to distribute a lot of the activities, so for instance we have a couple of moderators in place for this forum. I like to believe that if we find we are can't pay as much attention to this site as it deserves that we give more and more privileges to the community so that they can keep the site maintained at the least.

[rpadam]

Sadly search engine placement is like fashion, key players dictate it and then everyone copies. BITE has just been there longer and part of the reason it stays there is because it is there. A long time back it more than deserved it, if I understand correctly it was set up by a group of people who enjoyed reviewing pubs and opened their system up. Over time however they found themselves unable to administer it and let it stagnate. At some point it was sold on - I believe as a commercial proposition and I am guessing didn't perform as hoped, and now appear to be stagnating again (although with more advertising). My definition of stagnation here is that the site is not evolving and receives very few data updates.

To be clear that is all my interpretation and could all be completely wrong.
As far as I know, that is all correct except that there is currently no means for users to submit any updates to BITE at all...

[ROBCamra]

Well we do have one Top 3 spot. I just entered Hildens Gael Rua into Google and our 'Bloody Awful Beer of the Week' thread was in third spot, out of 3,880 results :)

No 3 eh!

Conrad, Dave, if you want some advice on how to phrase something so that it gets in Googles top three...........:whistle:

[Farway]

I think it is fact that, for whatever reason, Bite is more popular at the moment

When I was in The Hole in The Wall, Southsea, last year I asked permission to take inside photos, landlord was very willing, but had never heard of PuG, and he still links to his entry on Bite, despite my telling him about Pug and it's excellent reviews of his pub http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/54396/

PS. Conrad, would it be worthwhile maybe e-mailing him and pointing out the excellent reviews and linking requested? Especially as his Bite reviews are now going south and slagging the pub & beers off

I will not post link, no need to give Google more fodder here

[Conrad]

No 3 eh!

Conrad, Dave, if you want some advice on how to phrase something so that it gets in Googles top three...........:whistle:
If you dig up the thread on IT Crowd you will find that Dave played this prank with the word tnetennba, we actually had a lot of hits that week on this word. The forum is being crawled by Google quite actively and I regularly find us whilst trying to answer questions posted on the forum (for instance search on a pub address correction and find our forum is first hit :))


I think it is fact that, for whatever reason, Bite is more popular at the moment

When I was in The Hole in The Wall, Southsea, last year I asked permission to take inside photos, landlord was very willing, but had never heard of PuG, and he still links to his entry on Bite, despite my telling him about Pug and it's excellent reviews of his pub http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/54396/

PS. Conrad, would it be worthwhile maybe e-mailing him and pointing out the excellent reviews and linking requested? Especially as his Bite reviews are now going south and slagging the pub & beers off

I will not post link, no need to give Google more fodder here
I honestly believe it is just the self fulfilling nature of search engines, he searches for his pub name, finds BITE and links to them as that is what he has found. Whilst we may have a better page, he doesn't see us because we are half way down and rather irritatingly linking to the Southsea page rather than the pub page :mad:.

It is definitely worth contacting these people to try and get links Andy Ven has had some success on his campaigns. I personally don't do it because I find it so frustrating, to be honest I just don't think that that should be what dictates your popularity, and if that is what I am doing to make this site popular then I would rather just give up. I want to be designing the new toys that will hopefully make the site more fun to use and make those of us who have found it want to use it. Although to put it in perspective it has been a pleasure chatting with pubs where they are friendly, so ptg, Ed and Martin (The Cask) all spring to mind.

I apologise if that is more negative than I normally am, but I genuinely do think it is more important that this site is enjoyable rather than crush them in. We have a good group and if we can keep that together then this site will be successful - it just might take a while.

That said, where there are bigger wins I am quite willing to chase them, so hopefully we can get lucky by asking the GBG, chatting to branch CAMRA groups and the like.

The other bit is that it will be interesting when Dave does post about Google, as hopefully we can explain our understanding in a lot more detail and you can then tear that to bits and kick us in the right direction.

The other slight question I have that I think I have asked before is to check that everyone really does want the extra traffic. It does dictate how commercially successful the site is, but do we all really want it tomorrow. You mention that the Hole in the Wall now has bad reviews on BITE, are they justified and are we all ready for the amount of axe grinding type reviews that predominate BITE. Idly glancing through their reviews I guess I find about 1 in 4 useful, which granted is way more reviews than we get here still, but as a proportion of their traffic is very low good review ratio compared to us.