Lost Beers

[Wittenden]

Veteran beer blogger Tandleman was recently reminiscing about mainly Northern and therefore largely undrunk by me beers that he misses from his past. Here are some of mine from breweries closed or brewed by others.

Fremlin's Bitter from Faversham aka Whitbread Trophy
Paines Bitter,St Neots.
Gray's Stock, Chelmsford
Rayment's AK, Furneux Pelham
All King and Barnes beers, Horsham, West Sussex
Young's Ordinary and Winter Warmer, Wandsworth, Greater London.

[Komakino]

One of the replies in the comments section mentioned not having seen Ringwood 4X Porter for a while; there's no mention of it on Ringwood's website and another website suggests it was last seen around 2018.

[oldboots]

I think I lament more the loss of decent versions of beers, some of which are still about in bowdlerised form, than beers from long dead breweries.

Draught Bass is probably the prime example but Gales HSB in its pre -1980 form and Pedigree in its pre circa 2000 form would fit the bill. The inclusion of HSB pre Fullers reminds me that Boddingtons was dumbed down before they sold out to Whitbread. Ruddles County was an early example of a beer destroyed by big brewery accountants who fell for the myth that the brand was more important than the product. Jennings Cumberland seems to be another. Pub Curmudgeon mentioned Gales 5X, which he didn't know was actually a blend of BBB and Prize Old Ale, gorgeous stuff it was too; I miss that as much as Prize Old Ale, decent White Shield (although it's not bad these days) and Courage Imperial Russian Stout.

[sheffield hatter]

I think I lament more the loss of decent versions of beers, some of which are still about in bowdlerised form, than beers from long dead breweries.

Draught Bass is probably the prime example but Gales HSB in its pre -1980 form and Pedigree in its pre circa 2000 form would fit the bill. The inclusion of HSB pre Fullers reminds me that Boddingtons was dumbed down before they sold out to Whitbread. Ruddles County was an early example of a beer destroyed by big brewery accountants who fell for the myth that the brand was more important than the product. Jennings Cumberland seems to be another.

Yes, all those of course. Especially Boddies.

Tandleman mentions Tetleys, but being from the wrong side of the Pennines he was referring to Warrington Tetleys rather than the, to my taste, superior Leeds Tetleys. (He says Warrington was "lighter and more complex in taste than the Leeds version ... [with a] slightly sourish finish".) Well, each to their own, of course, but Leeds Tetleys, served with a tight sparkler through an autovac was a tremendous beer.

Your mention of Jennings Cumberland reminds me of the mess Marstons have been making of their Jennings beers in recent years. First the Bitter was emasculated, then given a different name; then Sneck Lifter was made with inferior malt with added caramel (I don't know this for sure, it's just what my taste buds told me) and has now been relegated to a seasonal, apparently; and going back to Cumberland Ale, it used to be a decent enough bitter, though I was never a huge fan, but is now approaching the insipidity of Wainwright. This is all because brands, money and shareholder value are seen as more important than providing a well-loved product to a discerning public.

[Maldenman]

Yes, all those of course. Especially Boddies.

Tandleman mentions Tetleys, but being from the wrong side of the Pennines he was referring to Warrington Tetleys rather than the, to my taste, superior Leeds Tetleys. (He says Warrington was "lighter and more complex in taste than the Leeds version ... [with a] slightly sourish finish".) Well, each to their own, of course, but Leeds Tetleys, served with a tight sparkler through an autovac was a tremendous beer.

Your mention of Jennings Cumberland reminds me of the mess Marstons have been making of their Jennings beers in recent years. First the Bitter was emasculated, then given a different name; then Sneck Lifter was made with inferior malt with added caramel (I don't know this for sure, it's just what my taste buds told me) and has now been relegated to a seasonal, apparently; and going back to Cumberland Ale, it used to be a decent enough bitter, though I was never a huge fan, but is now approaching the insipidity of Wainwright. This is all because brands, money and shareholder value are seen as more important than providing a well-loved product to a discerning public.

I visited the GBBF in Leeds in oh I'd say 1981, they voted Tetley Bitter as the Champion Beer of Britain, bizarre Yorkshire jingoism at its finest!

[Mobyduck]

One of the replies in the comments section mentioned not having seen Ringwood 4X Porter for a while; there's no mention of it on Ringwood's website and another website suggests it was last seen around 2018.
That was me. ;)

[sheffield hatter]

I visited the GBBF in Leeds in oh I'd say 1981, they voted Tetley Bitter as the Champion Beer of Britain, bizarre Yorkshire jingoism at its finest!

If it's the best, you wouldn't expect Yorkshiremen to be shy about saying so! Bizarre is not a problem, when you consider how long we've put up with Geoffrey Boycott.

[Aqualung]

One of the replies in the comments section mentioned not having seen Ringwood 4X Porter for a while; there's no mention of it on Ringwood's website and another website suggests it was last seen around 2018.

I've had this beer in the last five (I think) years in a JDW. It seemed fine to me.

[Quinno]

To recap mine;

Gales Festival Mild (I had hopes that Fullers would do this occasionally as a one-off but that now seems very unlikely - haven't seen it for at least 5 years)
Mad Hatter Tazatziki Sour (brewery bust)
Grand Union Honey Porter (ditto)

[AlanH]

My lost beers. Some vanished, some ruined, some rare and remembered with nostalgia.

Most Manchester brewers had two milds (Boddingtons, Robinsons, Lees, Hydes)
We travelled for miles to get Robinsons Dark Mild :notworthy: in the last two pubs serving it. We were never disappointed with it.
We used to drink Lees Dark Mild :notworthy: in a pub near work. When they merged their Dark and Light milds into one, it was never as good.
Hydes had Three! milds. A light and mid dark in Manchester and a Black Mild for the Welsh areas. When a Camra member first reopened the Marble Arch, he insisted on the Hydes Black Mild :notworthy:. Maybe nostalgia but we were convinced these black rare milds were superia.
Thwaites Best Mild :notworthy: was superb, but you can't take the Black out of Blackburn (Burns too many holes!)
Wilsons Bitter - The 1974 GBG said "Can be excellent" It was! The same beer in the 80's could have said "Avoid at all costs" Wilsons later admitted they ruined it to save costs.
Boddingtons Bitter - The beer that changed my life (for the better). It was a very pale dull straw colour, almost hazy. When it turned golden and shiny it was gone. Boddingtons ruined it themselves to save money long before Whitbread got their hands on it. That was just the final death sentence.
Pollards bitter. The first of the new breweries in the 70's. We used to drive to Camra's White Gates in Hyde in our lunch (hour!). I bought gallons of it in their Stockport brewing shop.
Hartleys Bitter. Another regular lunchtime trip to the White Gates. When they changed to Hartleys Best Bitter it was not as lunch time slutching.
I was also very partial to Marston's Merry Monk before they gave up brewing (proper) beer.

[Maldenman]

Hi Alan, I can't say I took to Pollards at all, at the time it was certainly a novelty, being a new brewery in a time when such things were rarely heard of, but it tasted earthy and twiggy. I'm sure you could get it at the Coach and Horses opposite Piccadilly Stn Approach and there was also a pub in Salford I recall.
Agree about Hartley's before Robbies got hold of it, many a hazy lost weekend in the South Lakes on their stuff.

[london calling]

As a teenager I always liked Double Diamond but have recently read that they also brewed a version in Alloa called Diamond Heavy so might have been a different beer.

[london calling]

This is a lost beer.I was given two bottles of Gales -Last Drop.I drank one and kept one but I somehow must have drank the second one as I have checked the shed numerous times thinking it must be still there. Must have been very drunk as I have no recollection of drinking the second one.

[Aqualung]

My lost beers. Some vanished, some ruined, some rare and remembered with nostalgia.

Most Manchester brewers had two milds (Boddingtons, Robinsons, Lees, Hydes)
We travelled for miles to get Robinsons Dark Mild :notworthy: in the last two pubs serving it. We were never disappointed with it.
We used to drink Lees Dark Mild :notworthy: in a pub near work. When they merged their Dark and Light milds into one, it was never as good.
Hydes had Three! milds. A light and mid dark in Manchester and a Black Mild for the Welsh areas. When a Camra member first reopened the Marble Arch, he insisted on the Hydes Black Mild :notworthy:. Maybe nostalgia but we were convinced these black rare milds were superia.
Thwaites Best Mild :notworthy: was superb, but you can't take the Black out of Blackburn (Burns too many holes!)
Wilsons Bitter - The 1974 GBG said "Can be excellent" It was! The same beer in the 80's could have said "Avoid at all costs" Wilsons later admitted they ruined it to save costs.
Boddingtons Bitter - The beer that changed my life (for the better). It was a very pale dull straw colour, almost hazy. When it turned golden and shiny it was gone. Boddingtons ruined it themselves to save money long before Whitbread got their hands on it. That was just the final death sentence.
Pollards bitter. The first of the new breweries in the 70's. We used to drive to Camra's White Gates in Hyde in our lunch (hour!). I bought gallons of it in their Stockport brewing shop.
Hartleys Bitter. Another regular lunchtime trip to the White Gates. When they changed to Hartleys Best Bitter it was not as lunch time slutching.
I was also very partial to Marston's Merry Monk before they gave up brewing (proper) beer.

That's an interesting list. Robinson's Dark Mild was rare as I recall. I do remember the landlord of the Vaynol Arms in Nant Peris telling me about a cask of their light Mild that turned out to be dark It was in fact Old Tom and provided hours of fun for the locals.
I remember getting bottles of Lees Dark from the Morrisons in Loughtom and then they knocked the ABV down to 2.8%. It tasted rubbish like a watered down brown ale and I wrote to the brewery telling them so.
I've never really got along with Hydes but I can't really explain why!! Thwaites were highly rated back in the day and actually opened a pub in North London. For me Wilson's (and Webster's) were tainted by the Watney ownership.
The downfall of Boddington is the first great tragedy in my drinking memory.
I remember that Manchester CAMRA pub but only remember an area called Belle Vue
Owd Roger was always a bigger prize than Merry Monk. I don't really remember much about it!

[oldboots]

Owd Roger was always a bigger prize than Merry Monk. I don't really remember much about it!

Merrie Monk was alleged to be Pedigree with added caramel in much the same way as Landlord / Ram Tam. Owd Roger was often sold in Marstons tied houses from a pin on the bar, fortunately I lived close to their Winchester based tied estate. The White Swan in Hyde Street, now The Mucky Duck (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/14197/), being the ex Winchester Brewery's Brewery Tap and Marston's depot was usually a good place to find it, as was the rough old Winsor beside Southampton Bus Station.

Fun Fact: Pedigree in the late 1970s had a reputation as a very effective laxative.

[Pangolin]

It will no doubt seem bizarre to many but as someone who grew up on it what I really miss is Courage Best, and I mean the pre-1980 version from the old Simonds Brewery in Reading, not its feeble modern shadow. In good form it was an excellent session bitter with a slightly reddish hue and much better than the London, Bristol or Plymouth brews (not biased at all...). The Mild was ok but trickier to find in good nick, although Plymouth Heavy was a different story and worth the trip.

Other sadly-missed brews include King & Barnes Mild or Bitter, Henley-brewed Brakspears Mild or Special and almost anything out of Gales (I still have a few corkers secreted away though!).

[oldboots]

It will no doubt seem bizarre to many but as someone who grew up on it what I really miss is Courage Best, and I mean the pre-1980 version from the old Simonds Brewery in Reading, not its feeble modern shadow. In good form it was an excellent session bitter with a slightly reddish hue and much better than the London, Bristol or Plymouth brews (not biased at all...). The Mild was ok but trickier to find in good nick, although Plymouth Heavy was a different story and worth the trip.
..

I'll second that and the Directors from London was nectar, sadly when brewing of both moved to Georges in Bristol they used a high gravity brewing method and parti-gyled Best with Directors, utter pish. Fortunately I think Ringwood was on stream by then.




...and almost anything out of Gales...

Gales lost its mojo around 1979/80 although POA retained something.

[Quinno]

I'll second that and the Directors from London was nectar, sadly when brewing of both moved to Georges in Bristol they used a high gravity brewing method and parti-gyled Best with Directors, utter pish. Fortunately I think Ringwood was on stream by then.

George's of Bristol you say? Look what I have :)

My grandad's.2219

[AlanH]

Fun Fact: Pedigree in the late 1970s had a reputation as a very effective laxative.

Especially if you drank the murk in The Railway Inn (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/59900/). You were lucky to make it home in time.

We were reprieved by its demolition.

[Mobyduck]

It will no doubt seem bizarre to many but as someone who grew up on it what I really miss is Courage Best, and I mean the pre-1980 version from the old Simonds Brewery in Reading, not its feeble modern shadow. In good form it was an excellent session bitter with a slightly reddish hue and much better than the London, Bristol or Plymouth brews (not biased at all...). The Mild was ok but trickier to find in good nick, although Plymouth Heavy was a different story and worth the trip.

Other sadly-missed brews include King & Barnes Mild or Bitter, Henley-brewed Brakspears Mild or Special and almost anything out of Gales (I still have a few corkers secreted away though!).

Courage best was my staple beer from 1976 for most of the rest of that particular century, I don't miss it at all, but then my tastes are now the polar opposite.

[Mobyduck]

One beer I do quite miss, although I think it may be sporadically produced still,is Fullers London Porter.

[Blackthorn]

Blackthorn, obviously. Although, like many other comments on here, the proper stuff when it was originally made by Taunton Cider, not when they were taken over by Gaymers/Showerings/Matthew Clark/Constellation/C&C and whoever else got their grubby mits on it and made it successively worse each time.

[london calling]

One beer I do quite miss, although I think it may be sporadically produced still,is Fullers London Porter.

Still around on keg. Only a few pubs get it on cask. Your favourite the Harp is one that occasionaly gets it.Doesnt sell fast enough for it to be casked according to Fullers.

[Aqualung]

One beer I do quite miss, although I think it may be sporadically produced still,is Fullers London Porter.

I don't go into Fuller's pubs any more but their Chiswick Bitter was always vastly superior to LP. They also used to do a mild called Hock that was good and ran rings around the pathetic Young's Malt Ale.

[Aqualung]

Blackthorn, obviously. Although, like many other comments on here, the proper stuff when it was originally made by Taunton Cider, not when they were taken over by Gaymers/Showerings/Matthew Clark/Constellation/C&C and whoever else got their grubby mits on it and made it successively worse each time.

I remember finding non-keg Blackthorn. Gaymers was a keg abomination that was hopelessly sweet

[Mobyduck]

I don't go into Fuller's pubs any more but their Chiswick Bitter was always vastly superior to LP. They also used to do a mild called Hock that was good and ran rings around the pathetic Young's Malt Ale.

Agree with the Chiswick, don't remember the Hock.

[Thuck Phat]

Liddingtons - brewed in Rugby from 1983 to 1986. Just one beer as I remember but it was the one which converted me from lager.

Bass - loved it in the mid-80’s and to me the Marston’s version isn’t bad. I’m sure there’s no real debate on that ;).

Pedigree - was a glorious beer and an absolute staple of my younger years. The first half went down relatively slowly as the taste buds adjusted to the complexity of flavour after which it was impossible to stop drinking. The modern version shares the pace of the first half and that’s usually as far as it goes. It’s unbelievable that Marstons are allowed to call it the same name as it’s a totally different, and vastly inferior, beer.

Courage Directors - again a staple of further educational years and tried one a few years ago which was brewed at Wells. Undrinkable.

Flowers Original - superb session ale which was well sampled as a regular at my local. Found it on at the Old Harker’s Arms in Chester a while ago, long after the Flowers brewery was sold, and it whistled through the 3 pint test but I haven’t seen it since.

[oldboots]

Flowers Original - superb session ale which was well sampled as a regular at my local. Found it on at the Old Harker’s Arms in Chester a while ago, long after the Flowers brewery was sold, and it whistled through the 3 pint test but I haven’t seen it since.

I always found it quite disgusting (in Whitbread's time, advertised by the real ale twats), it induced a headache while I was drinking it. Generally some versions of Trophy and Brickwood's Best* were much nicer to me.

*pre- Pompey Royal days only.


Agree with the Chiswick, don't remember the Hock.

I thought Chiswick tasted of fried onions, Hock on the other hand was splendid.

[Mobyduck]

I always found it quite disgusting (in Whitbread's time, advertised by the real ale twats), it induced a headache while I was drinking it. Generally some versions of Trophy and Brickwood's Best* were much nicer to me.

*pre- Pompey Royal days only.



I thought Chiswick tasted of fried onions, Hock on the other hand was splendid.

Fried Onions? :eek: Bloody hell.

[Thuck Phat]

I always found it quite disgusting (in Whitbread's time, advertised by the real ale twats), it induced a headache while I was drinking it. Generally some versions of Trophy and Brickwood's Best* were much nicer to me.

A few of the regulars used to get the immediate headache reaction so stuck to the only alternative - Everards Old Original. I like OO but it would have given me headache if drunk in the quantities I used to down of Flowers.

Never got on with Flowers Best but the locals Original was superb.

[london calling]

Used to prefer Chiswick bitter to London Pride in my early days but somewhere along the line it lost its flavour. It was only 3.5 and all the time I drank it I never knew it was so weak..Explains why I could drink 10 pints in a session.Hock 3.5 was a dark mild they use to bring out in the winter.

[rpadam]

Used to prefer Chiswick bitter to London Pride in my early days but somewhere along the line it lost its flavour. It was only 3.5 and all the time I drank it I never knew it was so weak..Explains why I could drink 10 pints in a session.Hock 3.5 was a dark mild they use to bring out in the winter.
I came across London Pride long before Chiswick Bitter, and having got to enjoy the fuller (pun only slightly intended) former beer I could never see the point of the latter.

[london calling]

I came across London Pride long before Chiswick Bitter, and having got to enjoy the fuller (pun only slightly intended) former beer I could never see the point of the latter.
Used to frequent Fullers pubs and the Chiswick was a poor seller compared to Pride.Lot of pubs didn't stock it on cask but had it on keg.Fullers did a lot of their beers on keg in the80s

[Pangolin]

Used to frequent Fullers pubs and the Chiswick was a poor seller compared to Pride.Lot of pubs didn't stock it on cask but had it on keg.Fullers did a lot of their beers on keg in the80s

Go back a bit further and they only had 4 real ale pubs at one time! Personally I preferred Pride; Hock was great when available and looked-after; ESB was just too strong, or so it seemed at the time although that looks a bit ridiculous nowadays.

[ETA]

almost anything out of Gales

I still feel rather sad about the HSB name being used by Fullers for a beer which tastes nothing like Gales HSB. The beer is lost, the name is stolen, I mean recycled.

[Pangolin]

I still feel rather sad about the HSB name being used by Fullers for a beer which tastes nothing like Gales HSB. The beer is lost, the name is stolen, I mean recycled.

Hear hear!

[london calling]

I still feel rather sad about the HSB name being used by Fullers for a beer which tastes nothing like Gales HSB. The beer is lost, the name is stolen, I mean recycled.

Drank the Gales -hsb but was not amazed by it then Fullers brewed it and I could see this wasn't the Gales beer I had drank.Did like Gales Festival mild though

[london calling]

Go back a bit further and they only had 4 real ale pubs at one time! Personally I preferred Pride; Hock was great when available and looked-after; ESB was just too strong, or so it seemed at the time although that looks a bit ridiculous nowadays.

It does look ridiculous now but as I mentioned yesterday I was drinking 3.5 Chiswick bitter and so my 10 pints was equivalent to 6 pints of ESB

[Tris39]

It does look ridiculous now but as I mentioned yesterday I was drinking 3.5 Chiswick bitter and so my 10 pints was equivalent to 6 pints of ESB

Missing Gales Prize Old Ale? (https://marblebeers.com/prize-old-ale/)