Historical Pubs

[ETA]

Is this a good time to improve our record of historical pubs, partly for the academic completeness, and partly to help other potential pub-goers when the restrictions are lifted? Several time I've heard of a pub which 'used to be there' but isn't listed in PuG, and when I've gone to explore, I've found that either it's open and we've just missed it somehow, or it's closed and the building has been repurposed. Would photographing and adding these be a constructive use of our daily exercise allowance?

[sheffield hatter]

Would photographing and adding these be a constructive use of our daily exercise allowance?

As a photographer, I'm all in favour of this approach. You probably won't get much support from regulars on this forum, as most of them are reviewers rather than snappers. One thing to avoid, though, is photographing a place where a pub used to be, but in fact the pub building has been replaced with another building altogether. There needs to be something recognisably publike before you get your camera out.

[Mobyduck]

As a photographer, I'm all in favour of this approach. You probably won't get much support from regulars on this forum, as most of them are reviewers rather than snappers. One thing to avoid, though, is photographing a place where a pub used to be, but in fact the pub building has been replaced with another building altogether. There needs to be something recognisably publike before you get your camera out.

Not against the idea , but is there any point in adding a previously unlisted former pub that is most likely never to be a pub again even though the building's the same ? Is this pubs past and present galore? Honest question.

[ETA]

Not against the idea , but is there any point in adding a previously unlisted former pub that is most likely never to be a pub again even though the building's the same ? Is this pubs past and present galore? Honest question.

My reasoning is that apart from having a more complete record (maybe my inner librarian is struggling to get out), there is a practical element - if someone looks the pub up and finds it closed, it will save them looking for it, and possibly wasting time and fuel. I guess we discussed it before in a thread on photographing closed pubs, a similar question, but apart from anything else it does give us something to do/talk about while we can't do live visits.

[AlanH]

Not against the idea , but is there any point in adding a previously unlisted former pub that is most likely never to be a pub again even though the building's the same ? Is this pubs past and present galore? Honest question.

As we don't delete closed pubs, then it is pubs past and present galore. I don't see why closed pubs not on the site cannot be added if they are still standing (and looking publike!). I have done this in the past but quite a few years ago.

I assume now that they would have to be added as open then closed by the sender as closed pubs seem to go under the radar and get ignored. I still have one on my pending, added closed, that was due to open. When it opened, I had to add it again.

[sheffield hatter]

Not against the idea , but is there any point in adding a previously unlisted former pub that is most likely never to be a pub again even though the building's the same ? Is this pubs past and present galore? Honest question.

To be honest I don't go looking for them, but if I see an obvious ex-pub I'll take a photo. And if it's not on the site I'll add it.


Is this pubs past and present galore? Honest question.

I know Dave went through a period when he wasn't authorising additions of closed pubs, but that was before he let some of us help out with admin tasks. As Alan H has pointed out, we don't delete pubs once they have closed, so why not add those that are already closed?

[Mobyduck]

To be honest I don't go looking for them, but if I see an obvious ex-pub I'll take a photo. And if it's not on the site I'll add it.



I know Dave went through a period when he wasn't authorising additions of closed pubs, but that was before he let some of us help out with admin tasks. As Alan H has pointed out, we don't delete pubs once they have closed, so why not add those that are already closed?
So with your dwarf hat on what would you do with this picture
2069
It's of The Swan (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/59688/), North Warnborough, no reviews and no pictures, it closed over 10 years ago, and had a mysterious fire shortly afterwards., been decaying ever since, its fair to say it was won't be a pub again.
Worth adding the picture in its current state? In this case I'm not so sure bot any picture better than no picture? There is a decent picture of it in its heyday on Whatpub.

[rpadam]

So with your dwarf hat on what would you do with this picture
2068
I'll link it up later when I'm on my desktop.
It's of The Swan, North Warnborough, no reviews and no pictures, it closed over 10 years ago, and had a mysterious fire shortly afterwards., been decaying ever since, its fair to say it was won't be a pub again.
Worth adding the picture in its current state? There is a decent picture of it in its heyday on Whatpub.
P.s I know it wants cropping a bit.
More to the point, it needs rotating by 90° clockwise!

[Mobyduck]

More to the point, it needs rotating by 90° clockwise!

Doesn't show that on my mobile but the cropping will sort that out.

[Tris39]

To be honest I don't go looking for them, but if I see an obvious ex-pub I'll take a photo. And if it's not on the site I'll add it.



I know Dave went through a period when he wasn't authorising additions of closed pubs, but that was before he let some of us help out with admin tasks. As Alan H has pointed out, we don't delete pubs once they have closed, so why not add those that are already closed?

A word of warning: there's the problem of photographing sites were once there was a pub as mentioned, but another problem is that of mistaken pubs. All but about 10 of my reviews are for pubs that I've actually visited but these 10-odd relate to 19th century - or earlier - buildings in Oxford, added on the assumption that they were former pubs, but in reality they are replacement shops/dwellings on the site of former pubs and not a former pub. Thus my review typically reads: "This is not an old pub, but a replacement'.


Not against the idea , but is there any point in adding a previously unlisted former pub that is most likely never to be a pub again even though the building's the same ? Is this pubs past and present galore? Honest question.

Rare, but it can happen: The Plough (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/77113/)

[Mobyduck]

More to the point, it needs rotating by 90° clockwise!


Doesn't show that on my mobile but the cropping will sort that out.

Done.

[oldboots]

Pub already on the site but it's the same building but now has a different use - yes if there are no other photo's of it in its current state ( I don't mean re-photographing a Dominos that used to be a nailbar that used to be a Tattooists that used to be a pub)

New building on same site - no
Hole in ground or car-park - no


The difficult one is a building that was once a pub but shut a long time ago and is now something else and isn't already on the site - what does this add? I vote no.


When I were a lad there were 70,000 pubs open, we're now at 48,000 or so (less after the Great Plague), that's a lot of closed pubs to add, and if you go back before my short life span the number of ex-pubs, beerhouses, etc is even higher.

[AlanH]

So with your dwarf hat on what would you do with this picture
In this case I'm not so sure that any picture better than no picture? There is a decent picture of it in its heyday on Whatpub.

Looks more like a football stand. Can't you nick the What Pub picture?

Whoops, sorry WP, didn't really mean it.:o

You could add a note, "View on Google, 2009"

[sheffield hatter]

A word of warning: there's the problem of photographing sites were once there was a pub as mentioned, but another problem is that of mistaken pubs. All but about 10 of my reviews are for pubs that I've actually visited but these 10-odd relate to 19th century - or earlier - buildings in Oxford, added on the assumption that they were former pubs, but in reality they are replacement shops/dwellings on the site of former pubs and not a former pub. Thus my review typically reads: "This is not an old pub, but a replacement'.

Those should be deleted, in my opinion. The whole pub entry, I mean, not your review.

If a pub has been added to the site but subsequently closes and is demolished, the original entry should stand. But if a former pub is added to the site solely for the purpose of taking a photo of the shop or block of flats now standing there, it should be removed from the site. In the (perhaps unlikely) event that someone adds a pub that is now closed and gone, but their reason for adding it was to record their experience of the pub (even 40 years ago), that seems legitimate to me. (See my post at #2 on this thread (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?31217-20-questions), for instance, though I'm not saying I'm going to.) This is all just my view, of course. Even if everyone agreed with me, it would be up to Dave in the end.

[sheffield hatter]

So with your dwarf hat on what would you do with this picture
2069

I wouldn't have a problem with approving that photo.

[Mobyduck]

I wouldn't have a problem with approving that photo.

Then I shall submit it and see what dwarf I get. :D

[sheffield hatter]

Then I shall submit it and see what dwarf I get. :D

:whistle:

[Mobyduck]

:whistle:

Ooh its been approved. :cheers:

[Delboy20]

Tricky one this as I can see both sides of the debate. I added a few in my local town that are long gone just to record them for the sake of history. I tried to add a comment with a few details such as this one The Vine (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/87975/) . There are many more that have gone from my area that I could add but if the building is no longer there I didn't bother. Perhaps I should?
I added this one Swan With Two Necks (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/81329/) but I didn't have a picture. A picture of the pub in its heyday was added later so it was worth putting on the site.

[sheffield hatter]

Tricky one this as I can see both sides of the debate. I added a few in my local town that are long gone just to record them for the sake of history. I tried to add a comment with a few details such as this one The Vine (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/87975/) .
I added this one Swan With Two Necks (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/81329/) but I didn't have a picture. A picture of the pub in its heyday was added later so it was worth putting on the site.

I think what you did with the Vine was fine - there's a family connection for you with that pub. And the Swan with Two Necks being on the site meant that Al 10000 was able to add his review and photo, so all good. (In fact, he added them a few days after the pub appeared, so it looks like you prompted him to contribute, so that shows the value of adding closed pubs to the site.)


There are many more that have gone from my area that I could add but if the building is no longer there I didn't bother. Perhaps I should?

Like I said above, if it was up to me I wouldn't add a closed pub where the building has gone unless I had something to say about it.

A bit more than "it's been demolished", obv. :evilgrin:

[Pangolin]

On a sort of relevant point, is there a way of referencing the date a picture was taken, rather than the date of submission? I undoubtedly have some old pictures of closed (or even open) pubs, but it would look a bit strange having them dated 2020.

[sheffield hatter]

On a sort of relevant point, is there a way of referencing the date a picture was taken, rather than the date of submission? I undoubtedly have some old pictures of closed (or even open) pubs, but it would look a bit strange having them dated 2020.

That would be one for Dave, I reckon.

[ROBCamra]

That would be one for Dave, I reckon.

Best of luck with that, he hasn't even replied to me asking how him & Tammy are doing during this shit.

[sheffield hatter]

Best of luck with that, he hasn't even replied to me asking how him & Tammy are doing during this shit.

I haven't had replies from Dave to PMs for quite some time.

[Lady Grey]

There is of course, The Lost Pubs Project.

[sheffield hatter]

There is of course, The Lost Pubs Project.

Yes, I've contributed quite a few photographs there. It's got a couple of limitations: 1) it's England only, 2) it's organised by pre-1974 counties!

[Tris39]

There is of course, The Lost Pubs Project.


Yes, I've contributed quite a few photographs there. It's got a couple of limitations: 1) it's England only, 2) it's organised by pre-1974 counties!

Yup. I've contributed hundreds of photos and actual entries here over the last 10 years.

There's also the Brewery History Society: http://www.breweryhistory.com/Defunct/DefunctIndex.htm