How Will Pubs Open?

[chrissmith89]

Morning everyone,

I'm sure we're all a bit shell-shocked with what has happened in the wake of the Covid-19 lockdown, not least the forced closure of pubs and bars up and down the country. Looks like we're in the long haul for this "flatten the curve (https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-flatten-the-curve.html)" strategy. I've just been thinking about what will happen once the bans start to get lifted again. Obviously, at this point, there's no knowing whether that will be in a few week's time or a few month's time. Just wondering what the precautions will be when places start opening again? Latex gloves (https://www.arco.co.uk/products/1450600?s=1) for staff? Limited numbers allowed in at one time?

It's been a crazy few weeks...

Thanks,

Chris

[Mobyduck]

Morning everyone,

I'm sure we're all a bit shell-shocked with what has happened in the wake of the Covid-19 lockdown, not least the forced closure of pubs and bars up and down the country. Looks like we're in the long haul for this "flatten the curve (https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-flatten-the-curve.html)" strategy. I've just been thinking about what will happen once the bans start to get lifted again. Obviously, at this point, there's no knowing whether that will be in a few week's time or a few month's time. Just wondering what the precautions will be when places start opening again? Latex gloves (https://www.arco.co.uk/products/1450600?s=1) for staff? Limited numbers allowed in at one time?

It's been a crazy few weeks...

Thanks,

Chris

Hi Chris, I think the answer to that is nobody knows at the moment, it will be a bit of a pain if the 2 meter rule is still in place, but better open with whatever restrictions than totally shut.

[oldboots]

Morning everyone,

I'm sure we're all a bit shell-shocked with what has happened in the wake of the Covid-19 lockdown, not least the forced closure of pubs and bars up and down the country. Looks like we're in the long haul for this "flatten the curve (https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-flatten-the-curve.html)" strategy. I've just been thinking about what will happen once the bans start to get lifted again. Obviously, at this point, there's no knowing whether that will be in a few week's time or a few month's time. Just wondering what the precautions will be when places start opening again? Latex gloves (https://www.arco.co.uk/products/1450600?s=1) for staff? Limited numbers allowed in at one time?

It's been a crazy few weeks...

Thanks,

Chris

Much depends on if a vaccine that works can be developed or if the Virus dies off through lack of hosts or if it just goes dormant and carriers remain in the community. When the number of new cases gets down close to zero the Govt might let things reopen, not least because of the economic damage we’re suffering and the cost of paying the 80% with more to come this afternoon when the chancellor announces help for the self employed.

When (if) pubs reopen there are bound to be some restrictions, the neo-pro’s are creaming themselves at this movement in what can be banned, I believe this called a Kensington an Overton Window*. There are also going to be logistical problems with restocking from the (remaining) breweries.

Whatever happens a major change in the beer landscape is inevitable.

*thanks to the more on the ball Quinno for putting this right.

[Quinno]

Much depends on if a vaccine that works can be developed or if the Virus dies off through lack of hosts or if it just goes dormant and carriers remain in the community. When the number of new cases gets down close to zero the Govt might let things reopen, not least because of the economic damage we’re suffering and the cost of paying the 80% with more to come this afternoon when the chancellor announces help for the self employed.

When (if) pubs reopen there are bound to be some restrictions, the neo-pro’s are creaming themselves at this movement in what can be banned, I believe this called a Kensington Window. There are also going to be logistical problems with restocking from the (remaining) breweries.

Whatever happens a major change in the beer landscape is inevitable.

I thought it was an Overton Window? Googling Kensington Window brings up glaziers! :)

[oldboots]

I thought it was an Overton Window? Googling Kensington Window brings up glaziers! :)

I did say "I believe", blame it on senility or beer.

1944

[Spinko]

Ability to take drinks anywhere in sight of the pub so people spread out... Or table service only. Will the majority want to go back to how we were anyway, I doubt it. Open borders and everyone flying everywhere caused this to spread so successfully.

[london calling]

I think the virus will have to be gone before they open the pubs as social distancing wont work. Pubs are meant to be social places and pointless opening them otherwise.We can can wait out the covid 19 with out resorting to restrictions.Hopefully the government will give the pubs a couple of weeks notice so they are up and running on the day.

[Pangolin]

As time goes by, there will be an increasing number of survivors with immunity, desperate to get out and spend their money somewhere. The expected antibody test will help in this regard and I am sure big business will want to cash in.

Sadly I expect a significant number of pubs (and breweries) will be gone forever. Even in the best scenario, I fear there will be many months of chaos trying to find if/when a pub is actually open or not, never mind if they have any ale, especially the obscure locals that I like visiting.

I also forecast that it will be socially unacceptable to have a cough in a pub, or most other places come to that!

[Aqualung]

At the moment it's hard to say how this will all end but one thing Tim Martin was correct about is that the entire hospitality industry is under threat. I'm sure you can add other sectors to that with a global recession as a bonus.
I'm sure I've heard that the flu pandemic after WW1 killed more people than the Great War itself. Think on this, there were much fewer old people then and no air travel to speak of. If this virus today was more virulent then who knows what the consequences might be.
Sorry about this depressing viewpoint, I think it needs pointing out. Have a nice Saturday!

[Aqualung]

Here's another gloomy forecast. Let's be clear, most people reading this are pub and beer enthusiasts, In my case I'm more of a beer enthusiast but that's not the point. Most of Joe Public aren't. How on earth are pubs going to attract ordinary folk back after what looks loke being a long time? Joe Bloggs will have realised what a poor deal was on offer on Friday night in Central London compared to having beer from the supermarket or even delivered by a local brewery.
I got an email from Five Points brewery which said I could get three cases of 5.5% JUPA for fifty quid delivered to my door. How many breweries will find this a more convenient and more profitable way of trading after the pubs open again?

[Wittenden]

Here's another gloomy forecast. Let's be clear, most people reading this are pub and beer enthusiasts, In my case I'm more of a beer enthusiast but that's not the point. Most of Joe Public aren't. How on earth are pubs going to attract ordinary folk back after what looks loke being a long time? Joe Bloggs will have realised what a poor deal was on offer on Friday night in Central London compared to having beer from the supermarket or even delivered by a local brewery.
I got an email from Five Points brewery which said I could get three cases of 5.5% JUPA for fifty quid delivered to my door. How many breweries will find this a more convenient and more profitable way of trading after the pubs open again?

I agree up to a point, but pubs offer a sense of community that can't be afforded by visiting a cafe or hanging out in the park. I would like to think that cabin fever will promote mass pub visiting.

[bcfczuluarmy]

My thoughts are once doors reopen people will flock back just to be free again, there's four walls and four walls that sell beer.

[Al Bundy]

My thoughts are once doors reopen people will flock back just to be free again, there's four walls and four walls that sell beer.

I totally agree. The first few weeks after reopening will see people off to regular haunts and to see which have survived and, sadly, which have not. I for one will be out of the traps immediately.

[Aqualung]

I'll probably be doing the same but what of the general public? I'm guessing only time will tell.

[Komakino]

Agree with Wittenden, bcfczuluarmy and Al: if lockdown ends in time for summer, people will be out celebrating like its 1999 / VE Day and those pubs that do re-open will reap the benefits.

[london calling]

Yes everyone will be out initially but I have found through long experience that when I only used local pubs some regulars who drank 6 or 7 days a week had to stop drinking for a while for whatever reason rarely went back to the old routine. I think a lot of people will cut back .

[Aqualung]

Happily my doom laden predictions are being rejected by most. Being pessimistic is one of the pitfalls of being a miserable old git!

[Aqualung]

I don't know if this has any relevance whatsoever but the local Flower Pot (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/25230/) has boarded up windows.
Like most of the area it's owned by the Ee-Aww Group, There was never such a monopoly in the big six brewery days.

[Tris39]

I don't know if this has any relevance whatsoever but the local Flower Pot (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/25230/) has boarded up windows.
Like most of the area it's owned by the Ee-Aww Group, There was never such a monopoly in the big six brewery days.

I've seen several pubs that are now boarded up. I suspect that this is to protect them from vandals.

[NickDavies]

I've seen several pubs that are now boarded up. I suspect that this is to protect them from vandals.

Indeed. A load of blx going on in some parts I'm afraid. The longer this goes on the more difficulty they'll have keeping a lid on it.

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/dc-police-face-night-disorder-4014879

[Mobyduck]

I've seen several pubs that are now boarded up. I suspect that this is to protect them from vandals.

Indeed. https://www.instagram.com/p/B-X1jWRhm31/

[bcfczuluarmy]

Surely the likes of EI will see it as a cash cow saying not viable anymore, can we knock it down and/sell on to developer put houses here please. Bring construction jobs extra mentioned on a planning applications as justification to demolish especially estate pubs on big plots.

[ETA]

Surely the likes of EI will see it as a cash cow saying not viable anymore, can we knock it down and/sell on to developer put houses here please. Bring construction jobs extra mentioned on a planning applications as justification to demolish especially estate pubs on big plots.

Sadly I think you're right. Yet more unnecessary houses being built purely to launder money or rake in cash for landowners.

[Tris39]

From the Daily Wail. (http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/pubs-across-the-uk-could-be-shut-until-christmas-as-michael-gove-warns-the-venues-will-be-among-the-last-to-see-the-governments-restrictions-lifted/ar-BB12ThnY?ocid=ientp
)

[Mobyduck]

From the Daily Wail. (http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/pubs-across-the-uk-could-be-shut-until-christmas-as-michael-gove-warns-the-venues-will-be-among-the-last-to-see-the-governments-restrictions-lifted/ar-BB12ThnY?ocid=ientp
)

Link doesn't work.

[Delboy20]

Link doesn't work.

Bad Request ! The Daily Mail is a bad idea full stop!

[Tris39]

Link doesn't work.


Bad Request ! The Daily Mail is a bad idea full stop!

A similar link: https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/20/pubs-across-uk-stay-shut-christmas-12581339/

[Spinko]

I expect impromptu beer gardens will pop up once it's hitting 20C with regularity, now everyone is building a decent stockpile. I've got my spot sorted for Friday afternoon overlooking Roseberry Topping.

[Tris39]

I expect impromptu beer gardens will pop up once it's hitting 20C with regularity, now everyone is building a decent stockpile. I've got my spot sorted for Friday afternoon overlooking Roseberry Topping.

What a beautiful location.

I've actually seen some people with a bottle sitting in front of pub beer gardens where access is easy or there are picnic benches outside.

[Spinko]

Took this on a walk nearby...

Roughly ten minutes walk from the Dubliners.

[Bucking Fastard]

Maybe pubs will open sometime in the future with a maximum age limit for entry :whistle:

[Wittenden]

Maybe pubs will open sometime in the future with a maximum age limit for entry :whistle:

Yikes!

[AlanH]

Maybe pubs will open sometime in the future with a maximum age limit for entry :whistle:

The Dry (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/65146/) bar in Manchester was like that for years. I think 25 was about top wack. You were suspected as an old git if you had a beard!

[Tris39]

Took this on a walk nearby...

Roughly ten minutes walk from the Dubliners.

Beautiful landscape and great composition too.

[ROBCamra]

The Dry (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/65146/) bar in Manchester was like that for years. I think 25 was about top wack. You were suspected as an old git if you had a beard!

My review dates from when I was 55 years young. :evilgrin:

[Spinko]

Maybe pubs will open sometime in the future with a maximum age limit for entry :whistle:

Idea for pubs reopening. Before 4pm weekdays no under 60s. 4pm to 8pm weekdays all allowed but over 60s strongly advised against. After 8pm no over-60s.

Weekends before 4pm all allowed but over 60s strongly advised against. After 4pm no over 60s.

[Al Bundy]

Maybe pubs will open sometime in the future with a maximum age limit for entry :whistle:

There's loads of pubs in Liverpool that won't let you in if you're over 18!

[AlanH]

Wetherspoons pubs could open now with just one chair at each table. Each customer would have their own table number two metres away from the next one.

Table 19 would be fenced off and table 43 reserved tor ArsenalFan.

[Tris39]

There's loads of pubs in Liverpool that won't let you in if you're over 18!

Prince Albert (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/24882/) has a strict 25+ policy. I've seen people who are easily in their late 20s being asked for ID only for them to receive the response: 'I'm 28, have a mortgage and two children. I stopped carrying ID a decade ago' (or similar). I saw a sign on a pub which stated that only over 30s were allowed in...

[Alesonly]

I think when pubs are allowed to open it will be on a strictly off sales bases only. Just like we had in the 60s where most pubs you could go into the the side door/off licence Jug & Bottle and they would fill a few gallon jars for me to take home on a Sunday lunch time. Pity there is no pubs that still do this now I could see there would be a few people queuing for some decent take away Ales.

[london calling]

I think when pubs are allowed to open it will be on a strictly off sales bases only. Just like we had in the 60s where most pubs you could go into the the side door/off licence Jug & Bottle and they would fill a few gallon jars for me to take home on a Sunday lunch time. Pity there is no pubs that still do this now I could see there would be a few people queuing for some decent take away Ales.
They are allowed to do off sales now .The two West London micros are both doing cask off sales . (see How Much thread for my rant)

[london calling]

There was a guy on the news a couple of days ago who has bars in Manchester where has has furloughed 600 workers.He said if he has to open with social distancing he will not be opening as he will lose even more money than he will by staying shut.

[sheffield hatter]

They are allowed to do off sales now .The two West London micros are both doing cask off sales . (see How Much thread for my rant)

I've been buying beer to take out from the Gardeners Rest (https://www.facebook.com/gardenerscomsoc/). So far it's been barrels that they had bought in before lockdown, which they've sold at £2 a pint. This week they are buying in more beer from local breweries Blue Bee and Sheffield Brewery, which they'll be selling at £2.50. Open Friday, Saturday and Sunday each week.

[Tris39]

If anyone's vaguely near, The Stag (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/23749/) is doing off-sales though if you want to buy 'wet' you'll need to bring a container.

[Tris39]

The Majesty of News:

Young's. (https://www.ft.com/content/e24e643c-c781-4c13-aad4-17561dbb46f8)

Beer Gardens. (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jun/09/english-pubs-beer-gardens-open-coronavirus)

More Beer Gardens. (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jun/09/english-pubs-beer-gardens-open-coronavirus)

[london calling]

Beautiful warm afternoon and night in London so I walked to Barnes.Had a couple of pints of cask beer from Wild beer and Thornbridge outside the Watermans arms.Queued for about 15mins ,went to the bar ordered and card payment.Went over the road and stood with the other 100 plus drinkers against the wall overlooking the Thames.Only £2.50 a pint for cask.Lovely and you could re-enter the pub too use the toilets.

[sheffield hatter]

Beautiful warm afternoon and night in London so I walked to Barnes.Had a couple of pints of cask beer from Wild beer and Thornbridge outside the Watermans arms.Queued for about 15mins ,went to the bar ordered and card payment.Went over the road and stood with the other 100 plus drinkers against the wall overlooking the Thames all stood at least two metres apart, as you'd expect.Only £2.50 a pint for cask.Lovely and you could re-enter the pub too use the toilets.

Are you sure that was in London? The price, and the behaviour, suggests it was more likely in Barnard Castle. (I'm just envious, actually. You lucky bastard.)

[Komakino]

Beautiful warm afternoon and night in London so I walked to Barnes.Had a couple of pints of cask beer from Wild beer and Thornbridge outside the Watermans arms.Queued for about 15mins ,went to the bar ordered and card payment.Went over the road and stood with the other 100 plus drinkers against the wall overlooking the Thames.Only £2.50 a pint for cask.Lovely and you could re-enter the pub too use the toilets.

Managed to do something similar - a couple of pints of cask Rebellion IPA from the 'takeaway window' at this country pub (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/58087/) a few miles from me - this Sunday afternoon; enjoyed in the pub's car park(!) then on a green bit opposite during some nice sunny weather. Things almost felt normal for an hour or so... :cheers:

[Tris39]

Beautiful warm afternoon and night in London so I walked to Barnes.Had a couple of pints of cask beer from Wild beer and Thornbridge outside the Watermans arms.Queued for about 15mins ,went to the bar ordered and card payment.Went over the road and stood with the other 100 plus drinkers against the wall overlooking the Thames.Only £2.50 a pint for cask.Lovely and you could re-enter the pub too use the toilets.

Sounds great - this is the same crowd behind your Express Tavern. I could have got a pint in a plastic cup from St. John's Wood's New Inn yesterday for consumption in Regent's Park, but didn't know what they were serving so didn't feel like a 15-minute queue for fizz.

[london calling]

Are you sure that was in London? The price, and the behaviour, suggests it was more likely in Barnard Castle. (I'm just envious, actually. You lucky bastard.)

Although the beer was fine I have a feeling that neither of those breweries have been brewing cask beer recently so it must be old stock.They also had Harveys Sussex on cask.
Went in the Express mid week and asked the guy if the cask beer was old stock he didn't actually answer but said I could have tasters.Tried a brown ale from By the Horns but it was manky so stuck to keg .

[Wittenden]

Fighting talk from Stonch on Twitter @jeffreyjohnbell.

[london calling]

I think publicans are getting worried as Boris hasn't mentioned any news about the 4 th july openings.Getting close now.

[rpadam]

BBC News: Pub chain 'has no choice' but to open on 4 July (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53094134).

[rpadam]

British Beer & Pub Association: More than 50 beer and pub businesses write to Prime Minister demanding a definitive reopening date for ALL pubs by Friday, as sector hits crisis point (https://beerandpub.com/2020/06/18/more-than-50-beer-and-pub-businesses-write-to-prime-minister-demanding-a-definitive-reopening-date-for-all-pubs-by-friday-as-sector-hits-crisis-point/).

[rpadam]

Morning Advertiser: Government needs to ‘stop dithering’ on pub sector guidance, says Hawthorn boss (https://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/Article/2020/06/18/When-will-the-Government-publish-guidance-on-the-safe-reopening-of-pubs)

[rpadam]

CoventryLive: Pub announces it's reopening on this date - and challenges Boris Johnson to stop them (https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/pub-announces-its-reopening-date-18443451).

[sheffield hatter]

CoventryLive: Pub announces it's reopening on this date - and challenges Boris Johnson to stop them (https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/pub-announces-its-reopening-date-18443451).


Morning Advertiser: Government needs to ‘stop dithering’ on pub sector guidance, says Hawthorn boss (https://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/Article/2020/06/18/When-will-the-Government-publish-guidance-on-the-safe-reopening-of-pubs)


British Beer & Pub Association: More than 50 beer and pub businesses write to Prime Minister demanding a definitive reopening date for ALL pubs by Friday, as sector hits crisis point (https://beerandpub.com/2020/06/18/more-than-50-beer-and-pub-businesses-write-to-prime-minister-demanding-a-definitive-reopening-date-for-all-pubs-by-friday-as-sector-hits-crisis-point/).

This is what happens when the person that's supposed to be in charge (with a parliamentary majority of 80, FFS) is a useless, lazy, waffling idiot.

[oldboots]

With my conspiracy theorist hat on, it's all a diabolical plan by Neo-prohibitionists to destroy pubs and breweries. isn't Dominic a tea totaller? I know most of the senior hierarchy at the NHS are neo-pro's.

[Spinko]

With my conspiracy theorist hat on, it's all a diabolical plan by Neo-prohibitionists to destroy pubs and breweries. isn't Dominic a tea totaller? I know most of the senior hierarchy at the NHS are neo-pro's.

Judging by the condition of most health workers on TV, I wouldn't really take much advice off them anyway!

[Tris39]

Morning Advertiser: Government needs to ‘stop dithering’ on pub sector guidance, says Hawthorn boss (https://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/Article/2020/06/18/When-will-the-Government-publish-guidance-on-the-safe-reopening-of-pubs)

This bloke seems to keep contradicting himself.


CoventryLive: Pub announces it's reopening on this date - and challenges Boris Johnson to stop them (https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/pub-announces-its-reopening-date-18443451).

It won't be Bozzer who stops them from opening, it'll be the police and I suspect with quite some force if necessary. Judging from the review of The Fuzzy Duck (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/81511/), it doesn't seem worth visiting anyway.


This is what happens when the person that's supposed to be in charge (with a parliamentary majority of 80, FFS) is a useless, lazy, waffling idiot.

Quite true, but the problem is that if 4th July is the official opening day (why does it have to be shared with Independence Day?) and there's a serious spike or second wave in Plague - perhaps a week from now - reopening won't be adhered to: it'll be lockdown all over again, IMHO.

[Wittenden]

[QUOTE=Tris39;109907]


It won't be Bozzer who stops them from opening, it'll be the police and I suspect with quite some force if necessary. Judging from the review of The Fuzzy Duck (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/81511/), it doesn't seem worth visiting anyway.


https://www.blogpreston.co.uk/2020/06/police-shut-down-illegal-lock-in-at-moor-park-pub/ From Twitter

[Tris39]

[QUOTE=Tris39;109907]https://www.blogpreston.co.uk/2020/06/police-shut-down-illegal-lock-in-at-moor-park-pub/ From Twitter

Indeed. Judging by the almost complete abandonment of social distancing (other than queuing for the shops), I think people have got cocky. I can well see pubs having their licences revoked; how long does a licence review/application take?

[Spinko]

This bloke seems to keep contradicting himself.



It won't be Bozzer who stops them from opening, it'll be the police and I suspect with quite some force if necessary. Judging from the review of The Fuzzy Duck (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/81511/), it doesn't seem worth visiting anyway.



Quite true, but the problem is that if 4th July is the official opening day (why does it have to be shared with Independence Day?) and there's a serious spike or second wave in Plague - perhaps a week from now - reopening won't be adhered to: it'll be lockdown all over again, IMHO.

There will not be any second wave once it has passed through a place.

[ROBCamra]

Quite true, but the problem is that if 4th July is the official opening day (why does it have to be shared with Independence Day?) and there's a serious spike or second wave in Plague - perhaps a week from now - reopening won't be adhered to: it'll be lockdown all over again, IMHO.

Personally I don't think pubs should open on the 4th simply because it's a Saturday.

I'd allow them to open on Monday 6th and let the new measures settle in for a few quieter days, rather than go for the potential mobbing on a Saturday.

If pubs cock it up then we could be back to square 1 in a few weeks.

[Tris39]

Personally I don't think pubs should open on the 4th simply because it's a Saturday.

I'd allow them to open on Monday 6th and let the new measures settle in for a few quieter days, rather than go for the potential mobbing on a Saturday.

If pubs cock it up then we could be back to square 1 in a few weeks.

You could well be right. I walked past Neighbour (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/82948/) which is selling takeaway plastic cups of fizz and although the front patio was cordoned off, quite a few people were congregating on the pavement and taking over what is technically the patio from the closed venture next door, including the seating. Perhaps the date has been chosen to please US residents here, but I think people will be queuing for a beer as if the pub were a supermarket - will there be rationing?:mad:

[Tris39]

Just announced on Radio 4 News: 'people may have to give their details to pubs so that they can be traced'!!!

And now: http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/pubs-and-restaurants-may-be-forced-to-keep-register-of-all-guests/ar-BB15MouR?ocid=ientp

[NickDavies]

Just announced on Radio 4 News: 'people may have to give their details to pubs so that they can be traced'!!!

It's based on a thing they do in New Zealand (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/21/reopened-pubs-in-england-may-require-drinkers-to-check-in)

I suspect this is a bit of media speculation and nothing will come of it.

Payment card data should be enough for the contact tracers to go on if a venue is found to be a source of infection.

[Tris39]

It's based on a thing they do in New Zealand (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/21/reopened-pubs-in-england-may-require-drinkers-to-check-in)

I suspect this is a bit of media speculation and nothing will come of it.

Payment card data should be enough for the contact tracers to go on if a venue is found to be a source of infection.

I love the choice of subject for the photo - a little cryptic, but the world's most appropriate pub, nonetheless!

[Spinko]

It's based on a thing they do in New Zealand (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/21/reopened-pubs-in-england-may-require-drinkers-to-check-in)

I suspect this is a bit of media speculation and nothing will come of it.

Payment card data should be enough for the contact tracers to go on if a venue is found to be a source of infection.

Back to cash it is then!

Not that the risk bothers me now, but I wonder for those still concerned which is the lesser risk:

1) a small micropub with eight people in, but where you are quite close to others;
2) a large Wetherspoons with fifty people in, but where you can get a good distance from others.

Anecdotes from food processing plants and restaurants suggest good air flow from outside is good mitigation. Air conditioning may help or hinder the situation depending on how it is configured...

[Tris39]

Back to cash it is then!

For reasons of speed - which will be all the more important now - and hygiene, I suspect that pubs may well go card-only.

[Tris39]

...and now it seem that pubs will be obliged to take our contact details - what will they want? A recent utility bill? A passport? And now the BMA wants stupid facemasks to be made compulsory - yes, a pub which is the place to talk and drink, whilst wearing a mask.
I'm increasingly of the opinion that I won't be back in the pub until these measures are abandoned, but who knows when that will be...

[oldboots]

2423

[Tris39]

2423

Unless people are compelled to provide proof of ID, then this is exactly what will happen. And how do you drink through a mask?

[Alesonly]

I don't see how pubs like Wetherspoons and other large chains can enforce this they cant keep the under 18s out as it is. only way would be for everyone to show a driving licence or other ID for proof of address and pay by card using the spoons app :eek: I cant show them Me over 60s bus pass I because that has not got proof of address nor has me retired SC card.

[hondo]

Unless people are compelled to provide proof of ID, then this is exactly what will happen. And how do you drink through a mask?

https://slanjkilts.com/masks/drinkingmask

[Spinko]

Sounds like it's the bigger chains leading the way from social media feeds. Perhaps micros aren't sure of stock availability or how strict police will be.

[Tris39]

I don't see how pubs like Wetherspoons and other large chains can enforce this they cant keep the under 18s out as it is. only way would be for everyone to show a driving licence or other ID for proof of address and pay by card using the spoons app :eek: I cant show them Me over 60s bus pass I because that has not got proof of address nor has me retired SC card.

I don't understand how this can work in any event: so the pub has my details, but it doesn't have my contacts and it won't know if I become ill unless I actually phone the pub and tell it. Then it will be tasked with going through the visitors' book, calling each one one by one to let them know that they were in a pub with an infected person. And what about time? Do we have to log our departure time? And suppose I visit my regular local. Do I have to give my details every time I visit or just register the once, so that the barmaid won't be saying "Evening Tris. Pint o' the usual? And is your address the same as yesterday?".


https://slanjkilts.com/masks/drinkingmask

Dear God; I despair. Why not use a snorkel and funnel, then pour beer into it, along with crunched up crisps?

[Tris39]

Anecdotes from food processing plants and restaurants suggest good air flow from outside is good mitigation. Air conditioning may help or hinder the situation depending on how it is configured...

Just announced on Radio 4 news: a plague spike in a German meat processing plant is the result of cold temperatures and the pathogen being spread by air conditioning. Presumably then, air would have to be expelled and not recirculated.

[Spinko]

Just announced on Radio 4 news: a plague spike in a German meat processing plant is the result of cold temperatures and the pathogen being spread by air conditioning. Presumably then, air would have to be expelled and not recirculated.

I think there should be recommendations issued on this. I've long not enjoyed indoor arena gigs due to the poor air quality, and had many a battle with HR minions over this sort of thing!

Just to add to anecdotes. The Anchor in Digbeth is reopening but not on the 4th. Pubs in Yarm however seem to be going for it on day one (I can see huge crowds queueing there if the weather is good)

[brokenarrows]

Have they explained anywhere what data needs to be captured from a customer.
Will name and phone number be sufficient.

Im planning to write some software for the Oracle Simphony point of sale system to help businesses capture this data easily.
They can just enter it on the cash register and it will save it for 21 days and can be exported if necessary.

[checkinpub]

I've just posted a possible solution to the contact details 'check in' problem over in the Services forum!

http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?31911-CheckIn-pub-straightforward-COVID-secure-customer-check-ins!

Hopefully it helps someone :)

[sheffield hatter]

I've just posted a possible solution to the contact details 'check in' problem over in the Services forum!

http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?31911-CheckIn-pub-straightforward-COVID-secure-customer-check-ins!

Hopefully it helps someone :)

Nice one. (Not sure how many pub operators or managers visit this site, but well done for trying.)

[Wittenden]

Do I really want to jump through so many hoops,especially when I only ever have one drink in say 30 minutes before I move on.
Internet is on go slow, so can't post link from Cellar Head re reopening Tap Room. Basically, one has to book a 3hour session (Friday), or hour and a half (Saturday), no walk ins. £10 deposit refundable against purchases, so I'd be out of pocket with my one pint! Usual COVID sanitising and distancing. Think I'll wait a bit!

[rpadam]

Do I really want to jump through so many hoops,especially when I only ever have one drink in say 30 minutes before I move on.
Internet is on go slow, so can't post link from Cellar Head re reopening Tap Room. Basically, one has to book a 3hour session (Friday), or hour and a half (Saturday), no walk ins. £10 deposit refundable against purchases, so I'd be out of pocket with my one pint! Usual COVID sanitising and distancing. Think I'll wait a bit!
Cellar Head Tap Room (https://www.cellarheadbrewing.com/tap-room-covid).

[Mobyduck]

One of my regular pubs has spelt out nice and clearly how they will be opening on their Facebook page.

The Alfred Free House (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/35750/)

BIG ANNOUNCEMENT TIME!

We are delighted to confirm that we will be reopening the pub on Saturday 4th July. However, it will be subject to a large number of changes with the safety of staff and customers of paramount importance. All these changes are subject to change depending on how well they work. Please read through this carefully and take note of the guidelines sheet we have attached to this post.

To begin with, the kitchen will remain closed and we will open for drinks only. Over time we will try to introduce some sort of food offering. However, for now, it is important we open safely and get used to operating a pub under social distancing rules.

There will be no reserving of tables; it will be a first come first serve basis (you should all be used to queuing outside by now!). However, we will be utilising the car park area with a marquee so we have increased spaces to seat people whilst obviously having a more spacious table layout. Due to said marquee, car parking spaces will be very limited so please walk to the pub where possible.

Upon arrival please wait to be seated and only one household or one social bubble can sit at a single table. However, we have a good idea about all of our customers various friendship groups so we will try to seat you near each other where possible so you can chat at a safe distance.

It will also be table service only. There will be staff monitoring all areas, taking orders, delivering drinks, cleaning surfaces and generally looking after you all. Minimising your movement around the building is a key element in reducing risk. Basically, sit down, don’t move and we will sort you out!

There are more rules and conditions, however, most of them are based on common sense and will be obvious once you are here.

Our opening hours will be as follows:

Monday: Closed
Tuesday: Closed
Wednesday: 17:30 - 22:00
Thursday: 17:30 - 22:00
Friday: 17:30 - 22:00
Saturday: 16:00 - 22:00
Sunday: 14:00 - 20:00

That was all a bit serious, and for good reason. However, if everyone adheres to social distancing and behaves themselves there is no reason we can’t all have a jolly old time.

If anyone has any specific questions please pop us a Facebook message or email and we will get back to you ASAP.

We are very excited to have finally reached a stage where we can open in some capacity. There is a long road ahead before everything returns to normal, but in the meantime, at least the beer is back!

https://www.facebook.com/AlfredFreeHouse/photos/pcb.3304322989649846/3304321716316640/?type=3&theater

[Tris39]

Cellar Head Tap Room (https://www.cellarheadbrewing.com/tap-room-covid).

Forget it. If this is going to be the overall deal, I'm staying at home.

[Tris39]

One of my regular pubs has spelt out nice and clearly how they will be opening on their Facebook page.

And what about single drinkers? If a pub has say, six tables, each with a capacity of six in a social bubble, what happens if six single drinkers turf up? Will it be one person per table or will single drinkers get turned away on the basis that they won't generate enough turnover?

[aleandhearty]

Cellar Head Tap Room (https://www.cellarheadbrewing.com/tap-room-covid).

Oh, FFS! That's bordering on the Kafkaesque. Not for me. I'll definitely be waiting a few weeks before I even think about going out.

[ROBCamra]

Oh, FFS! That's bordering on the Kafkaesque. Not for me. I'll definitely be waiting a few weeks before I even think about going out.

We're out on Sunday for a meal at La Mancha (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/81236/), fizz only of course, but a couple of pints
before at The Baum (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/55901/) is a probability and a couple afterwards at The Pint Pot (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/88655/) is very likely
as Mike (the owner) phoned me up today to ask for some beer advice. :cheers:

[Mobyduck]

And what about single drinkers? If a pub has say, six tables, each with a capacity of six in a social bubble, what happens if six single drinkers turf up? Will it be one person per table or will single drinkers get turned away on the basis that they won't generate enough turnover?

I'll find out Sunday.

[Brainypool]

Oh, FFS! That's bordering on the Kafkaesque. Not for me. I'll definitely be waiting a few weeks before I even think about going out.

Some of their procedures are at least understandable given they are a small unit. But drink orders by text message? Please tell me this isn’t a widespread thing.

[Komakino]

I think Moby's local (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/35750/) has taken a sensible approach, and although it will be interesting to see how they adapt/respond to Tris' point (post #87 (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?31169-How-Will-Pubs-Open&p=110151&viewfull=1#post110151)), based on their FB post that Moby shared (and a prior visit by me to the pub a few years back), I'm sure they and their locals will find a balanced and reasonable solution.

I feel for all these businesses in the hospitality sector re-opening on or around the 4th, as they'll obviously do their best to adhere to the government's guidelines, but it relies on the good old Great British Public to do the same, which, based on supermarket visits since the start of lockdown, for a large minority, I can't see happening.

[NickDavies]

I feel for all these businesses in the hospitality sector re-opening on or around the 4th, as they'll obviously do their best to adhere to the government's guidelines, but it relies on the good old Great British Public to do the same, which, based on supermarket visits since the start of lockdown, for a large minority, I can't see happening.

The thing publicans fear most is losing their licence. If people start playing up most sensible guvnors will shut up shop for the day.

[Tris39]

I'd love to know how The Seven Stars (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/22067/) will reopen, given that with social engineering it only has space for about four plus staff (and cat).

It'll also be interesting to see what happens to people who go outside for a fag - will they have to queue up again to get in?:confused:

At least there won't be any barholes blocking proceedings.

[NickDavies]

It'll also be interesting to see what happens to people who go outside for a fag - will they have to queue up again to get in?:confused:


Well they're not going to give away your table just because you've gone for a smoke or to the loo or to take a phone call, and no doubt left your pint, coat, paper or whatever there.

I wonder what will happen to the on-trend twelve place refectory tables and huge sofas that furnish some pubs; thanks to the new rules I can think of some quite large pubs that could only seat five or six parties. They could double that with normal furniture.

[london calling]

I have a feeling that only a few pubs in my area will open.I know Fullers are only opening a few in London .Only one of the four local pubs I would use is opening.The Dodo micropub is opening late in July and you have to book a 90 minute slot.Table for one.Sir! No thanks.

[hondo]

I'd love to know how The Seven Stars (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/22067/) will reopen, given that with social engineering it only has space for about four plus staff (and cat).

It'll also be interesting to see what happens to people who go outside for a fag - will they have to queue up again to get in?:confused:

At least there won't be any barholes blocking proceedings.

same here Halfway House (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/48958/)

[Spinko]

The Dubliners next to Thornaby station looks dormant. No signs up saying when they are reopening, nothing on social media, and a window in need of repair.

I suspect it's going to be like Boxing Day where you'll just have to walk around to see where is open.

[ROBCamra]

We're out on Sunday for a meal at La Mancha (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/81236/), fizz only of course, but a couple of pints
before at The Baum (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/55901/) is a probability and a couple afterwards at The Pint Pot (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/88655/) is very likely
as Mike (the owner) phoned me up today to ask for some beer advice. :cheers:

Change of plan. The Baum isn't reopening until the 10th!

Booked a table at The Flyer The Flying Horse (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/19928/) instead. :cheers:

[Tris39]

same here Halfway House (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/48958/)

Auld Shillelagh (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/25618/) is about 2 metres wide and not at all long either.


The Dubliners next to Thornaby station looks dormant. No signs up saying when they are reopening, nothing on social media, and a window in need of repair.

I suspect it's going to be like Boxing Day where you'll just have to walk around to see where is open.

Walked past Quinns (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/22835/) a couple of days ago and it's in a very poor state - just look at the photos I took.

[london calling]

I agree about Quinns.Yellow and blue does not go together.Nice battleship grey .More appealing

[trainman]

Yellow and blue does not go together.Nice battleship grey .More appealing
Really John? That sort of livery just depresses me even before I've entered...

[an_ecumenical_matter]

Walked past Quinns (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/22835/) a couple of days ago and it's in a very poor state .
The old man Quinn died a few years ago. The family were from Longford hence the paint.

[Tris39]

Really John? That sort of livery just depresses me even before I've entered...

Better that than black: The Stag (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/23749/)


The old man Quinn died a few years ago. The family were from Longford hence the paint.

Sad - I think this must have been the old bloke who served me. The thing about the pub is that it was - I think - a loved business, but terribly lacking in funds. With money spent it could be a lovely place, but even the stonework is starting to crumble.

[an_ecumenical_matter]

Better that than black: The Stag (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/23749/)



Sad - I think this must have been the old bloke who served me. The thing about the pub is that it was - I think - a loved business, but terribly lacking in funds. With money spent it could be a lovely place, but even the stonework is starting to crumble.
The son used to always be there, he could eat you without salt if he was in a humour.

[london calling]

Really John? That sort of livery just depresses me even before I've entered...

Only having a laugh at the garish colour.Great pub.Used to take my son there as they had a fridge full of unusual German beers.

[AlanH]

In "Wails", It will be 10 days before we can visit a pub Outside! No mention yet of the date to go Inside! It will be like the old Welsh Sundays when to get a pint you had to cross into England. Will I do so?? Table service only, name and phone no. to track me, maybe having my temperature taken. Limited visit time. Having to book in advance. Oh, and of course I will have to drive because Public Transport for essential workers only!
Walking three minutes to The Bridge End in Ruabon to take out two cask beers seems far more attractive, and i am still doing my bit to support the pub trade. :drinkup::cheers:

[oldboots]

I agree about Quinns.Yellow and blue does not go together.Nice battleship grey .More appealing

The top row of the Yorkshire colour chart should give pub designers more interesting ideas than battleship grey.

2454

[oldboots]

In "Wails", It will be 10 days before we can visit a pub Outside! No mention yet of the date to go Inside! It will be like the old Welsh Sundays when to get a pint you had to cross into England. Will I do so?? Table service only, name and phone no. to track me, maybe having my temperature taken. Limited visit time. Having to book in advance. Oh, and of course I will have to drive because Public Transport for essential workers only!
Walking three minutes to The Bridge End in Ruabon to take out two cask beers seems far more attractive, and i am still doing my bit to support the pub trade. :drinkup::cheers:

Brains have announced a number of their pubs will not reopen, I don't know if that includes the 40 they intend to flog off or if it's more pubs.

[hondo]

https://twitter.com/theswanyork/status/1278752515698438144?s=21

[sheffield hatter]

https://twitter.com/theswanyork/status/1278752515698438144?s=21

Here's where you can join the Campaign for Pubs (https://campaignforpubs.org.uk/).

[oldboots]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-53315702

[Spinko]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-53315702

I wonder if it was their competitors that called.

[NickDavies]

Now here's a thing that just struck me. If you give a pub a salty review they've got your phone number.....

[Tris39]

Now here's a thing that just struck me. If you give a pub a salty review they've got your phone number.....

And what if you give them a salt and vinegar review?

[ETA]

Now here's a thing that just struck me. If you give a pub a salty review they've got your phone number.....

well, someone's phone number.

[Tris39]

The Charlotte Despard (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/25371/) - this modern shop-to-pub conversion is only accepting customers on a loyalty basis. If you weren't known there before lockdown, you won't get in now.:muppet:

[Tris39]

The Swimmer at The Grafton Arms (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/25506/) - a friend has told me that this place has a walk-in policy but a couple of tables reserved for regulars (how you define a 'regular' is a mystery to me).

[Mobyduck]

(how you define a 'regular' is a mystery to me).

Someone who's in every day ?

[Wittenden]

The Swimmer at The Grafton Arms (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/25506/) - a friend has told me that this place has a walk-in policy but a couple of tables reserved for regulars (how you define a 'regular' is a mystery to me).

Sounds like the 'stammtisch' in german bars which always confused me.

[Tris39]

Sounds like the 'stammtisch' in german bars which always confused me.

This seems to translate as zi German for 'monthly meet-up' in a pre-booked room.

[Tris39]

It seems that GK pubs are only selling their IPA or Abbot, presumably to maximise their profit at the expense of choice. Not a great incentive to pay a visit...

[Mobyduck]

It seems that GK pubs are only selling their IPA or Abbot, presumably to maximise their profit at the expense of choice. Not a great incentive to pay a visit...

Was in a Greene King pub earlier, both IPA and Abbot on plus H&H something or other , luckily for me also a guest of Triple fff Pressed Rat & Warthog.

[oldboots]

Was in a Greene King pub earlier, both IPA and Abbot on plus H&H something or other , luckily for me also a guest of Triple fff Pressed Rat & Warthog.

Olde Trip? sounds like a no brainer to go for Alton fff. GK beers seem in short supply in JDW pubs so that might link in with Tris39's observations.

[Bucking Fastard]

GK beers seem in short supply in JDW pubs .

No bad thing ;)

[Tris39]

Olde Trip?

Should be called Old Tripe.

[hondo]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-53666665

[Spinko]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-53666665

if you want the pandemic to end don’t get a test.

[sheffield hatter]

if you want the pandemic to end don’t get a test.

Not sure I understand what you mean. Your comment in another thread about a pub being "relaxed about the stupid guidance" suggests that you think this whole pandemic thing has been made up, or exaggerated, and that government responses in the UK have been over the top.

If so, I hope you don't find out the hard way just how serious it can be.

[Tris39]

Not sure I understand what you mean. Your comment in another thread about a pub being "relaxed about the stupid guidance" suggests that you think this whole pandemic thing has been made up, or exaggerated, and that government responses in the UK have been over the top.

If so, I hope you don't find out the hard way just how serious it can be.

I don't think that this will ever end, but the problem is knowing what to do, barring the arrival of an effective inoculation which could take years. We can't sacrifice the economy and should shops et al be forced to close once more, it will send a signal that they will be allowed to open, forced to close, allowed to open, forced to close and so on, which is simply not possible. Should schools open at the expense of, say, the hospitality industry, is it better to send kids to school or put their parents out of a job? There's no easy answer, but in a radio interview the other day, the former head of Punch Taverns said that if pubs are forced to close again, around 30-40% probably won't open ever again. I'm of the opinion, despite being moderately 'vulnerable', not least having spent two weeks in hospital with pneumonia at the age of eight, that trying to hide from a virus is a bit like trying to push water uphill.:(

[oldboots]

Not sure I understand what you mean. Your comment in another thread about a pub being "relaxed about the stupid guidance" suggests that you think this whole pandemic thing has been made up, or exaggerated, and that government responses in the UK have been over the top.

If so, I hope you don't find out the hard way just how serious it can be.

I dare say people's views depend on their membership or not, of one of the risk categories and their perception of risk. A previously healthy man under 40 has a small risk compared an old bloke of over 60. Current figures show the percentage of confirmed cases is about 0.46% of the UK population and total deaths confirmed from CV19 at 0.07% of the UK population, and as we know most deaths are of inmates of hospitals, care homes, and among the poor and BAME. Pretty good odds if you're not in an at risk group. And remember lock-down was brought in to "flatten the curve", which it succeeded at.

I suspect we will eventually take the kind of pragmatic outlook that people in the past did to disease, the days when a simple cut could lead to death by Sepsis or when TB carried off thousands every year. Adding in the coming problems of anti-biotic resistant bugs the days of "isn't medical science wonderful" are probably numbered.

[rpadam]

I suspect we will eventually take the kind of pragmatic outlook that people in the past did to disease, the days when a simple cut could lead to death by Sepsis or when TB carried off thousands every year. Adding in the coming problems of anti-biotic resistant bugs the days of "isn't medical science wonderful" are probably numbered.
Thanks for cheering us up!

[Spinko]

Not sure I understand what you mean. Your comment in another thread about a pub being "relaxed about the stupid guidance" suggests that you think this whole pandemic thing has been made up, or exaggerated, and that government responses in the UK have been over the top.

If so, I hope you don't find out the hard way just how serious it can be.

The supposed uptick in 'cases' is just due to more random testing and the vast majority have no symptoms.

What IS serious is having a National Covid Service for six months rather than a National Health Service.

[sheffield hatter]

I don't think that this will ever end, but the problem is knowing what to do, barring the arrival of an effective inoculation which could take years. We can't sacrifice the economy and should shops et al be forced to close once more, it will send a signal that they will be allowed to open, forced to close, allowed to open, forced to close and so on, which is simply not possible. Should schools open at the expense of, say, the hospitality industry, is it better to send kids to school or put their parents out of a job? There's no easy answer, but in a radio interview the other day, the former head of Punch Taverns said that if pubs are forced to close again, around 30-40% probably won't open ever again. I'm of the opinion, despite being moderately 'vulnerable', not least having spent two weeks in hospital with pneumonia at the age of eight, that trying to hide from a virus is a bit like trying to push water uphill.:(

I can agree or at least sympathise with a lot of what you say. Of course we all want things to be like what they were before, and the prospect of 30% or more of pubs not opening again ever will strike to the hearts of people on this forum, no doubt. (There's a clue in the name: 30% fewer than before is a poor definition of "galore".) I get the feeling that Johnson & Cummings wanted to go down the route you are (sort of) advocating, but they chickened out (or bowed to advice to the contrary). They could probably (make that certainly) put up with the loss of a few Spinkos, Tris39s and sheffield hatters if it meant that things would go back to normal quicker, but it could be made to look uncaring with the electorate.

[sheffield hatter]

The supposed uptick in 'cases' is just due to more random testing and the vast majority have no symptoms.

This was certainly true of the early scare about huge numbers of cases in, for example, Sheffield and in the Morecambe Bay area, but this has since been shown to be the result of a more rigorous testing regime initiated by the respective health authorities or whatever they are now called; I would argue that they were right to do so. (Doing tests at airports might have been a good idea, too.) And the fact that the majority of people with the disease were asymptomatic shows what we're up against. People who thought they were in perfect health were actually spreading the virus to their family, friends and people down the pub.


What IS serious is having a National Covid Service for six months rather than a National Health Service.

Agree with you there. What was the point of setting up Nightingale Hospitals to relieve the pressure on the regular hospitals, and then cancelling all the regular stuff in serious things like oncology while not actually using the Nightingale Hospitals. This is why the true measure of the impact is the excess deaths figure, rather than the deaths that have Covid-19 on the death certificate.

[sheffield hatter]

I suspect we will eventually take the kind of pragmatic outlook that people in the past did to disease, the days when a simple cut could lead to death by Sepsis or when TB carried off thousands every year. Adding in the coming problems of anti-biotic resistant bugs the days of "isn't medical science wonderful" are probably numbered.


Thanks for cheering us up!

Yes, making me regret leaving the pub at 9:30 when they were still open.

[Tris39]

I can agree or at least sympathise with a lot of what you say. Of course we all want things to be like what they were before, and the prospect of 30% or more of pubs not opening again ever will strike to the hearts of people on this forum, no doubt. (There's a clue in the name: 30% fewer than before is a poor definition of "galore".) I get the feeling that Johnson & Cummings wanted to go down the route you are (sort of) advocating, but they chickened out (or bowed to advice to the contrary). They could probably (make that certainly) put up with the loss of a few Spinkos, Tris39s and sheffield hatters if it meant that things would go back to normal quicker, but it could be made to look uncaring with the electorate.

There's just no solution: I live in an area where there's a large amount of tourism and including a lot of tourists from China. I had a very 'interesting' and sharp flu-like illness over Christmas, including a very harsh cough and higher than normal temperature; it didn't clear up until at least the second week of January, leaving me thinking that this was just the result of increased age.
In March, I bought an in-ear thermometer at the outset, used it obsessively for a month, but gave up using it ages ago. I've been to convenience stores...let's just say a hell of a lot, given that I've been out walking with cans every day, though tomorrow will mark the twentieth week since I socialised with anyone; next week I'll probably start making an effort.


Yes, making me regret leaving the pub at 9:30 when they were still open.

I think that pubs were actually supposed to close at 9.00? or 9.30? on 20th March though many carried on regardless.


The supposed uptick in 'cases' is just due to more random testing and the vast majority have no symptoms.

What IS serious is having a National Covid Service for six months rather than a National Health Service.

Yes. I agree that both of these are probably accurate. Apparently there are about 3,500 cancer diagnoses each week, so around 180,000 per year. And my sister (48) has had to come off chemotherapy as it diminishes her immune system, at a time when she needs it most...

[oldboots]

I think that pubs were actually supposed to close at 9.00? or 9.30? on 20th March though many carried on regardless.



Boris said in the Commons on the afternoon of Friday 20th that pubs were to close at 9pm that evening, however there was no force of law until 2pm on Saturday 21st when the powers given to the Secretary of State for Health actually become law. I stayed in the pub drinking Sarah Hughes until I was full on the Friday night but oddly, I didn't fancy a pint on Saturday morning even though some pubs were open (legally).

[sheffield hatter]

I think that pubs were actually supposed to close at 9.00? or 9.30? on 20th March though many carried on regardless.

I wasn't actually referring to 20 March. I meant leaving the pub I was in last night, coming home and logging on here to be reminded by oldboots that we were all revisiting the 14th century, as far as science-based medicine is concerned.

[sheffield hatter]

The supposed uptick in 'cases' is just due to more random testing and the vast majority have no symptoms.



... the fact that the majority of people with the disease were asymptomatic shows what we're up against. People who thought they were in perfect health were actually spreading the virus to their family, friends and people down the pub.

The other thing about asymptomatic spreaders is that if people routinely ignore the distancing regime and gather together in large crowds, the virus is going to get passed around more and more. The more contacts you meet, the more chance there is that you'll pick up a critical viral load, and the more chance there is that your immune system won't be able to deal with it.

I'm not sure how many of the so-called random tests Spinko refers to have taken place - my understanding was that anyone with symptoms can request a test, but only medical staff were being routinely tested. If that is right, but those tests are stopped for whatever reason, then medical staff who have the virus but are not showing symptoms, instead of self-isolating, will be going back onto wards where they can pass on the virus to others.

Up to now, I have been going back to pubs on the basis that people are being careful to keep themselves, other pub goers and pub workers safe. I haven't seen any careless pubgoers, apart from that one half-hour in Ramsbottom (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?31998-How-was-it-for-you&p=110939#post110939)(#47), and even that wasn't exactly like a Roman orgy. Hopefully I'm going to the right sort of pubs. If those pubs start to be invaded by people who think it's all been a bit overblown and it's about time everyone had a really good night out, perhaps I'll need to think again.

[oldboots]

reminded by oldboots that we were all revisiting the 14th century, as far as science-based medicine is concerned.

I meant pre penicillin days, 1930s and before - living memory for some. Science based medicine is fairly recent, doctors still believed in unbalanced humours and miasma until the 1840s. Mind you there are people today who believe in the healing powers of crystals, 5g tower created illness and similar tosh.

[Mobyduck]

I meant pre penicillin days, 1930s and before - living memory for some. Science based medicine is fairly recent, doctors still believed in unbalanced humours and miasma until the 1840s. Mind you there are people today who believe in the healing powers of crystals, 5g tower created illness and similar tosh.

Get the leeches out.

[london calling]

If you believe in the Buffalo Theory which I do to a small extent.We could have let the disease run its course and any survivors would probably be immune. We of course have a different attitude to decease and illness now so we have tried to outrun it but the cost to our economy and future wellbeing may be a big price to pay.Yes as a smoker I have been toying with the Buffalo theory for years so I am happy to gamble my life but I cant do that as I might infect others .Catch 22?

[Spinko]

The other thing about asymptomatic spreaders is that if people routinely ignore the distancing regime and gather together in large crowds, the virus is going to get passed around more and more. The more contacts you meet, the more chance there is that you'll pick up a critical viral load, and the more chance there is that your immune system won't be able to deal with it.

I'm not sure how many of the so-called random tests Spinko refers to have taken place - my understanding was that anyone with symptoms can request a test, but only medical staff were being routinely tested. If that is right, but those tests are stopped for whatever reason, then medical staff who have the virus but are not showing symptoms, instead of self-isolating, will be going back onto wards where they can pass on the virus to others.

Up to now, I have been going back to pubs on the basis that people are being careful to keep themselves, other pub goers and pub workers safe. I haven't seen any careless pubgoers, apart from that one half-hour in Ramsbottom (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?31998-How-was-it-for-you&p=110939#post110939)(#47), and even that wasn't exactly like a Roman orgy. Hopefully I'm going to the right sort of pubs. If those pubs start to be invaded by people who think it's all been a bit overblown and it's about time everyone had a really good night out, perhaps I'll need to think again.
I've not got a link to the stats to hand, but the prevalence is somewhere around one in 5000. That's so low as to be likely all false positives.

There is also no evidence that asymptomatic people can spread the disease.

Quite frankly the disease has done the rounds and has pretty much vanished from the UK. We now need the Coronavirus Trials for the Siege of Caffa despatch of the infected en masse into care homes, but I expect we'll need a change of government first.

[sheffield hatter]

We now need the Coronavirus Trials for the Siege of Caffa despatch of the infected en masse (https://www.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles/mongol-siege-caffa-black-plague.html) into care homes, but I expect we'll need a change of government first.

Are you suggesting that the government deliberately arranged for people with coronavirus to be put into care homes in order to reduce the number of elderly and infirm people cluttering up the care system? There's only one person in this rabble of rowdy rebels who has sufficient brain power to think of that, and he was probably in County Durham at the time.

[Spinko]

Are you suggesting that the government deliberately arranged for people with coronavirus to be put into care homes in order to reduce the number of elderly and infirm people cluttering up the care system? There's only one person in this rabble of rowdy rebels who has sufficient brain power to think of that, and he was probably in County Durham at the time.

They ought to have known the consequences and it shows a callous disregard. Similar happened in places with appalling fatality rates, northern Italy, New York, Sweden.

The other callousness is the illegal, unnotified, Do Not Resuscitate markers put on the records of disabled but otherwise young and healthy.

This Will all come out some time and mark my word it'll be Hillsborough X 100.

[sheffield hatter]

They ought to have known the consequences and it shows a callous disregard. Similar happened in places with appalling fatality rates, northern Italy, New York, Sweden.

The other callousness is the illegal, unnotified, Do Not Resuscitate markers put on the records of disabled but otherwise young and healthy.

This Will all come out some time and mark my word it'll be Hillsborough X 100.

You are probably right about callousness. There's certainly a lot more of that quality than intelligence in this "government of all the talentless (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/14/dominic-cummings-cabinet-reshuffle)"*. It took 30 years for Hillsborough to reach any sort of resolution, and even then the outcome in terms of people admitting responsibility was a long way from what the families of the victims were looking for. I, for one, do not have 30 years to wait for this one to be resolved!



*Suella Braverman in particular is mesmerically dim, with a classic Channel 4 News interview with the attorney general suggesting not only that she could be outperformed at the dispatch box but that she could be outperformed by the dispatch box. Or indeed any other item of furniture in the Palace of Westminster.

[Spinko]

You are probably right about callousness. There's certainly a lot more of that quality than intelligence in this "government of all the talentless (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/14/dominic-cummings-cabinet-reshuffle)"*. It took 30 years for Hillsborough to reach any sort of resolution, and even then the outcome in terms of people admitting responsibility was a long way from what the families of the victims were looking for. I, for one, do not have 30 years to wait for this one to be resolved!



*Suella Braverman in particular is mesmerically dim, with a classic Channel 4 News interview with the attorney general suggesting not only that she could be outperformed at the dispatch box but that she could be outperformed by the dispatch box. Or indeed any other item of furniture in the Palace of Westminster.

This time there are more written records. Dispersed written records ;) So big pay rises for NHS for the foreseeable?

(Hillsborough is only my second football memory, as I recall it being reported on the radio as we sat outside my grandma's care home in Worsley.)

[sheffield hatter]

(Hillsborough is only my second football memory, as I recall it being reported on the radio as we sat outside my grandma's care home in Worsley.)

I was at work in a betting shop in Morley, my second job - I also worked at the casino in Leeds - as my partner was at home with our two daughters; the younger one was just two months old, she's now 31.

[oldboots]

Are you suggesting that the government deliberately arranged for people with coronavirus to be put into care homes in order to reduce the number of elderly and infirm people cluttering up the care system? There's only one person in this rabble of rowdy rebels who has sufficient brain power to think of that, and he was probably in County Durham at the time.

The problem was more a case of HMG crapping themselves about the NHS getting overwhelmed, based on dodgy figures from Neil Fergusson, who of course had form on dodgy figures as he is widely credited with cocking up big time over the Foot & Mouth disease a few years ago. Neil of course was a bit like Cummings in that he decided the rules didn't apply to him when he famously went off to shag his mistress. Anyway it is a matter of record that many elderly people were sent back to care homes with little regard for their infectious status we can only guess at the motivations of "Hancock's half hour", "Boris the Blusterer" and the poor sighted Cummings AKA "The Mekon", unlike Jenrick it's not a simple case of follow the money.

[sheffield hatter]

The problem was more a case of HMG crapping themselves about the NHS getting overwhelmed, based on dodgy figures from Neil Fergusson, who of course had form on dodgy figures as he is widely credited with cocking up big time over the Foot & Mouth disease a few years ago. Neil of course was a bit like Cummings in that he decided the rules didn't apply to him when he famously went off to shag his mistress. Anyway it is a matter of record that many elderly people were sent back to care homes with little regard for their infectious status we can only guess at the motivations of "Hancock's half hour", "Boris the Blusterer" and the poor sighted Cummings AKA "The Mekon", unlike Jenrick it's not a simple case of follow the money.

Agree with all that you say, except that, without checking, I think Ferguson's squeeze went round to his for a shag, not the way you had it. The result is the same whatever.

Hey, if only they were all just plain corrupt. Between narcissism, corruption, blissful ignorance of foreign manipulation, stupidity and good old-fashioned callousness, it's remarkable that these guys keep on getting re-elected. I'm all in favour of a bit of self-harm if that's what you're into, but 40% or more of the electorate going "yes, whip me harder" is something I will never get my head around.

[Tris39]

I meant pre penicillin days, 1930s and before - living memory for some. Science based medicine is fairly recent, doctors still believed in unbalanced humours and miasma until the 1840s. Mind you there are people today who believe in the healing powers of crystals, 5g tower created illness and similar tosh.


Get the leeches out.

This may look like a building site (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5236236,-0.1192642,3a,75y,116.21h,97.1t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s5eZUzAZqw1OQ_8xp9vzUHA!2e0!5s2 0160601T000000!7i13312!8i6656), but in fact it's the Royal London Homeopathic Hospital - you only need one brick and it's finished!

[oldboots]

This may look like a building site (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5236236,-0.1192642,3a,75y,116.21h,97.1t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s5eZUzAZqw1OQ_8xp9vzUHA!2e0!5s2 0160601T000000!7i13312!8i6656), but it fact it's the Royal London Homeopathic Hospital - you only need one brick and it's finished!

subtle

[Wittenden]

Grim reading. (I'm not a CA member,by the way.)https://www.countryside-alliance.org/news/2021/1/ca-survey-reveals-rural-pubs-on-brink-of-closure

[sheffield hatter]

Grim reading. (I'm not a CA member,by the way.)https://www.countryside-alliance.org/news/2021/1/ca-survey-reveals-rural-pubs-on-brink-of-closure

Grim indeed.

[Tris39]

Grim reading. (I'm not a CA member,by the way.)https://www.countryside-alliance.org/news/2021/1/ca-survey-reveals-rural-pubs-on-brink-of-closure

I suppose you need a good takeaway customer base to survive such as at https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/68237/ and their mention of this support programme (https://www.thecommunitybootinn.co.uk/updates/2020/8/16/covid-19-update), which is probably too little.

[hondo]

Get the leeches out.
or the maggots
https://biomonde.com/en/

[trainman]

Despite being the most regulated and enforced covid-aware indoor environment (vs say, transport, supermarkets) several reports are appearing along the lines of:
Boris considers bold move to open pubs and restaurants in April with booze BAN.
I think ob will be rolling out the neo-pro references in due course. And with good reason if wet-led pubs are left to just go to the wall...
And in restaurants, everyone will be sat down, table-distanced - what the hell does it matter if diners have wine with a meal or not??

[Mobyduck]

Despite being the most regulated and enforced covid-aware indoor environment (vs say, transport, supermarkets) several reports are appearing along the lines of:
Boris considers bold move to open pubs and restaurants in April with booze BAN.
I think ob will be rolling out the neo-pro references in due course. And with good reason if wet-led pubs are left to just go to the wall...
And in restaurants, everyone will be sat down, table-distanced - what the hell does it matter if diners have wine with a meal or not??

I really can't take these reports seriously....
But then with this tin pot government , who knows.

[oldboots]

I think ob will be rolling out the neo-pro references in due course. And with good reason if wet-led pubs are left to just go to the wall...


I'm not going to let you down; it's probably the only theory that fits with what we know.

The headlines could be the Govt floating the idea to see how much resistance there might be, that's a common trick of this lot, possibly something from Cummings' tool box. They have also put out an extreme position so that a less vicious course of action looks reasonable. On the other hand it could be lazy journalism.

[sheffield hatter]

Despite being the most regulated and enforced covid-aware indoor environment (vs say, transport, supermarkets) several reports are appearing along the lines of:
Boris considers bold move to open pubs and restaurants in April with booze BAN.
I think ob will be rolling out the neo-pro references in due course. And with good reason if wet-led pubs are left to just go to the wall...
And in restaurants, everyone will be sat down, table-distanced - what the hell does it matter if diners have wine with a meal or not??

Oh, good grief!



The headlines could be the Govt floating the idea to see how much resistance there might be, that's a common trick of this lot, possibly something from Cummings' tool box. They have also put out an extreme position so that a less vicious course of action looks reasonable.

I could believe either of those. They've done this sort of thing many times before. It's like the whole country is being made to take part in a Tory party focus group.



I really can't take these reports seriously....
But then with this tin pot government , who knows.

Indeed.


On the other hand it could be lazy journalism.

That's probably the best we can hope for.

[rpadam]

The headlines could be the Govt floating the idea to see how much resistance there might be, that's a common trick of this lot, possibly something from Cummings' tool box. They have also put out an extreme position so that a less vicious course of action looks reasonable. On the other hand it could be lazy journalism.
Or both!

[hondo]

Some say cinemas will be allowed to reopen as long as they don’t show films

[sheffield hatter]

Some say cinemas will be allowed to reopen as long as the don’t show films

What's it like working close to the UK government?

[hondo]

What's it like working close to the UK government?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97PWwGNfD10 :whistle:;)

[sheffield hatter]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97PWwGNfD10 :whistle:

Yes, as I thought: enough to drive the rest of us to drink.

[hondo]

Yes, as I thought: enough to drive the rest of us to drink.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-aibUV-Ltg :cheers:

[Tris39]

Yes, as I thought: enough to drive the rest of us to drink.

You might think that, he couldn't possibly comment.

[Tris39]

How pubs might open (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55995855)

...and...

too funny not too mention! (https://twitter.com/lawrencehurley/status/1359207169091108864?s=20)

[Tris39]

Publicans getting ever more inventive. (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/apr/10/ale-fresco-englands-pubs-gear-up-for-outdoor-reopening-on-12-april?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other)

[NickDavies]

The forecast here for Monday is 8C max, mostly cloudy, a little rain, -1C min. As patio heaters will (literally) cut no ice if there's the slightest breeze I suspect we'll be staying in. Despite that the pub at the bottom of our street was busying itself this morning deploying queuing signs and whathaveyou. As the next ten nearest pubs have no realistic outside area I expect they'll get punters come what may.

Prospects are better (well 12C and a bit of sun) later in the week.

[Tris39]

The forecast here for Monday is 8C max, mostly cloudy, a little rain, -1C min. As patio heaters will (literally) cut no ice if there's the slightest breeze I suspect we'll be staying in. Despite that the pub at the bottom of our street was busying itself this morning deploying queuing signs and whathaveyou. As the next ten nearest pubs have no realistic outside area I expect they'll get punters come what may.

Prospects are better (well 12C and a bit of sun) later in the week.

Here it will be about 8C in the evening but 'feels like' 5C - 7C with a 10% chance of rain. I'd rather stay in.

[london calling]

Going to wait until the weather is better. Still wearing my thermal vest and probably will be until the end of the month.

[Mobyduck]

Well I'll be going down the pub Monday.

[sheffield hatter]

Well I'll be going down the pub Monday.

Me too! Several layers of clothes, plus gloves. Can't decide between my Leeds Rhinos scarf (which I bought at Headingley on 5 March last year, the last game of rugby I've seen live) or my Luton Town scarf from when we won the Johnstone's Paint Trophy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YbWq-RRm5I) on 5 April 2009, which I recall as a warm sunny day, with not much call for a scarf (I wore it anyway).

[oldboots]

2632

[Brainypool]

Looks like all of the pubs in the village will be reopening tomorrow. Glad to see it but really not sure how financially viable it will turn out for them. I’ll be at the Masons Arms (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/20238/) at some point this week and who knows, maybe I’ll show the others some support but I have no idea what to expect in terms of beer, service, etiquette and numbers of customers.

[Wittenden]

I'll make an appearance at some time,but I don't really drink during the week, and next weekend is filling-up with not directly beer related activities. Perhaps I'll fall back on the old semi retired card.

[NickDavies]

Here it will be about 8C in the evening but 'feels like' 5C - 7C with a 10% chance of rain. I'd rather stay in.

Well the sun shone on the righteous and we enjoyed a very pleasant hour here (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/37036/)

You do wonder why they (and they are by far not the only offender) try to get you to use their phone app when, at least if you are on EE, you can only get a signal if you stand on a table or find a sweet spot in the car park or you are close enough to the building to get their wifi, and then you'd think they'd put a repeater outside rather then expecting the signal to go through two foot thick walls. The waiters have all got order pads and card machines anyway, even if I could get a signal the phone faff is too much. I've never come across a table-service bar on the continent, ie most bars, where they try to inflict apps on you.

[sheffield hatter]

You do wonder why they (and they are by far not the only offender) try to get you to use their phone app when, at least if you are on EE, you can only get a signal if you stand on a table or find a sweet spot in the car park or you are close enough to the building to get their wifi, and then you'd think they'd put a repeater outside rather then expecting the signal to go through two foot thick walls. The waiters have all got order pads and card machines anyway, even if I could get a signal the phone faff is too much. I've never come across a table-service bar on the continent, ie most bars, where they try to inflict apps on you.

If you're not prepared to stand on a table, we can only assume that you're not desperate for a beer.

[Tris39]

Well the sun shone on the righteous and we enjoyed a very pleasant hour here (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/37036/)

Very nice! I'm about to set off for one of my locals, The Carlton Tavern (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/23799/). It has a very large garden, but hope it isn't packed.:pray:

[ETA]

A great couple of hours in The Wyndham Arms (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/57806/), meeting up with old faces, superb beer from Fine Tuned (Sunshine Reggae on draft). First pint was in perfect condition, but if something looks too good to be true it probably isn't so a second pint was required to confirm. Still couldn't find anything wrong, so had to double-check. OK, final check, and all was still fine. Half a gallon, several dog biscuits (the dogs not me) and convivial company. It's good to be back.

[bcfczuluarmy]

I'm off to Inn On The Green (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/617/) to potentially sit in a marque in a car park tomorrow. Not enamored but if intermediate norm I'll go along with it till it's worth making any effort to do new pubs when indoors returns. Don't even know what's happening with the 3 locals at the bottom of my road reopening.

[Bucking Fastard]

There was a flurry of snow early morning :eek: but this passed and with a some afternoon sun popped in here (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/36122/)while passing.A well kept pint of Twickenham Grandstand slipped down ,it was great to have cask after almost 4 months without.All punters and staff were on a real high and even some passing drivers tooted their horns.:)

[Thuck Phat]

A thoroughly enjoyable half gallon here (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/64838/) surrounded by a cheery crowd in the sunshine.

I’d forgotten how good cask beer is and it totally refused to stay in the glass.

[Tris39]

I passed countless pubs on my 15-mile walk last night and probably about half were open, with many more obviously about to open in the next week or so. Some had brought in extra-long trestle tables and trestle benches - I even saw mixed furniture which included a swivelling office chair on castors (drunk in charge of a vehicle?), much seating was clearly breaching pavement boundaries. What was bloody obvious though is that they were all rammed with groups of six people. I don't think I saw a single couple, let alone solo drinker. Most websites I viewed said that only bookings were being taken and for no fewer than six drinkers. Around 10.00 pm I passed The Clissold Park Tavern (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/54550/) and there was a vacant table, beyond their substantial beer garden, out on the pavement but it was sandwiched between two tables used by rather unsavoury characters and as the pub is far from satisfactory, I decided to forget about it.
I reckon I'll have to wait for normality to return before I'll be back in a pub.:mad:

[ROBCamra]

In the beer garden at The Healey (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/19941/) today, very pleasant, no issues whatsoever.

We were booked in for 14:30 and got home about 20 minutes ago, just the four and a half hours!!!!

Doesn't time fly......................... :p:nishelypished:

[Tris39]

In the beer garden at The Healey (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/19941/) today, very pleasant, no issues whatsoever.

We were booked in for 14:30 and got home about 20 minutes ago, just the four and a half hours!!!!

Doesn't time fly......................... :p:nishelypished:

Judging from Google, you seem to have the benefit of far lower population density, not afforded by Upper Street/Essex Road.

[ROBCamra]

Judging from Google, you seem to have the benefit of far lower population density, not afforded by Upper Street/Essex Road.

Yeah, it's grim up north. :evilgrin:

[Mobyduck]

A very nice afternoon session
2635
in the Waggon (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/59679/)yesterday.

[Gann]

2640

Cheers everyone, from The Beehive (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/25552/) on Monday, which is why I look frozen.

[Spinko]

Popping out Friday as on a half day. My usual favourite in Stockton has put a huge covering over all seats - so a pleasant day at 11C in strong sunshine would instead be chilly.

So it'll probably be the Dubliners, which has seating pretty much all the way around the pub - due diligence on wind direction and use the building as a windbreak, while remaining in the sun.

I saw 100 or maybe more there on Monday evening. Never usually more than about 20.

[Tris39]

A very nice afternoon session in the Waggon (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/59679/)yesterday.

Glad to see you're in the Waggon at last and no longer on it.


Yeah, it's grim up north. :evilgrin:

Certainly grim up North London.:(


Cheers everyone, from The Beehive (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/25552/) on Monday, which is why I look frozen.

Looks like I'll have to look further north than Stoke Newington.

[Tris39]

THhe Eat Out to Help Out (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/towns/n16/central-london/) link at the bottom of this page, as an example. Do we still need this?

[Brainypool]

We got the last table at the Masons, Billinge yesterday. It was full for most of the night, perhaps a younger than usual crowd. Beer spot on as always but hope I won’t have to order it through an app for too much longer.

[Mobyduck]

THhe Eat Out to Help Out (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/towns/n16/central-london/) link at the bottom of this page, as an example. Do we still need this?

No.

[Bucking Fastard]

Beer spot on as always but hope I won’t have to order it through an app for too much longer.

The Euston Tap' (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/71412/)s app was clunky and you had to re enter your card details for every order,a pain during a long session yesterday.At least it was "just turn up and grab a table" and there were far more tables than usual and also outside the East Lodge (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/75611/).Table service was slow,but with most of the other pubs on the walk up from Kings Cross not opening yet,trade was brisk throughout the evening session.

Just three cask ales on,which had all run out by 9pm.:eek:(The Hammerton N7 was spot on however). The keg Five Points XPA was a pale shadow of the cask version,but had to suffice thereafter.There were 12 other keg options.

Anyone aware of any other central(ish) London pubs with a large outside space which doesn't need to be booked and offers decent real ale ?

[Tris39]

We got the last table at the Masons, Billinge yesterday. It was full for most of the night, perhaps a younger than usual crowd. Beer spot on as always but hope I won’t have to order it through an app for too much longer.

Even worse is when you have to order not through an app, but through the pub's website, entering bank details after every drink.:mad:


The Euston Tap' (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/71412/)s app was clunky and you had to re enter your card details for every order,a pain during a long session yesterday.At least it was "just turn up and grab a table" and there were far more tables than usual and also outside the East Lodge (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/75611/).Table service was slow,but with most of the other pubs on the walk up from Kings Cross not opening yet,trade was brisk throughout the evening session.

Anyone aware of any other central(ish) London pubs with a large outside space which doesn't need to be booked and offers decent real ale ?

I admire your stoicism in going to the Euston Tap. I passed it yesterday around 11.00 and the thought of drinking outside with six lanes of roaring traffic, screaming sirens and aggressive begging would tip me over the edge.

I can't think of any relatively large garden pubs centrally where bookings aren't necessary: Alwyne Castle (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/23577/), Edinboro Castle (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/54349/), Clissold Park Tavern (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/54550/), Pub On The Park (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/25072/) and Royal Inn On The Park (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/25111/) for example, all want bookings.
And I can't vouch for the beer - The Railway Tavern Ale House (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/25636/) is down to three pumps with no clips and The Jolly Butchers (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/25627/), which is probably the joint best real ale pub in the whole of Hackney, was spotted last night as having no pump clips either.:confused:

Your best bet is the pavement for centrally located seating is at The Barrel Vault (JD Wetherspoon) (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/86846/).

[rpadam]

Five pubs yesterday in easternmost Kent. No apps, no pub websites, no ordering hassle.

[london calling]

Five pubs yesterday in easternmost Kent. No apps, no pub websites, no ordering hassle.
Probably explains why the Kent Variant spreads. (smiley)

[rpadam]

Probably explains why the Kent Variant spreads.
For clarity, all were following the rules (e.g. NHS Test and Trace via app or on paper) - I meant no need to book or order via an app or website.

[sheffield hatter]

For clarity, all were following the rules (e.g. NHS Test and Trace via app or on paper) - I meant no need to book or order via an app or website.

Yeah, I think we got it first time. John was just having a bit of fun!

[rpadam]

Yeah, I think we got it first time. John was just having a bit of fun!
I was confident of that, but as I am just about the review them, I didn't want somebody else putting 2 + 2 together and getting the wrong answer in a way that might cause an issue for the landlords concerned.

[Pangolin]

What has shown up is the very poor capability of most pubs in relation to on-line presence/social media. With some notable exceptions (plus a lot of chain pubs on group websites of course), the majority of pubs seem to have great difficulty in putting anything on their websites regarding whether they are open or closed. Many are still showing their pre-March 2020 status; some even still claiming weekly quiz nights etc. Facebook is a bit better, and a good number have comments about opening on April 12 or whenever, some even listing opening hours, food serving times etc, but this is far from the norm. It is pretty basic marketing to keep customers informed of when they can buy from you, and sticking a blackboard out the front is not really up to the job anymore!

Sadly of course some will be like this because they have gone out of business and there is no-one to update things. A great tragedy, but even more reason for survivors to announce themselves.

[Bucking Fastard]

I admire your stoicism in going to the Euston Tap. I passed it yesterday around 11.00 and the thought of drinking outside with six lanes of roaring traffic, screaming sirens and aggressive begging would tip me over the edge.

I can't think of any relatively large garden pubs centrally where bookings aren't necessary: Alwyne Castle (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/23577/), Edinboro Castle (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/54349/), Clissold Park Tavern (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/54550/), Pub On The Park (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/25072/) and Royal Inn On The Park (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/25111/) for example, all want bookings.
And I can't vouch for the beer - The Railway Tavern Ale House (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/25636/) is down to three pumps with no clips and The Jolly Butchers (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/25627/), which is probably the joint best real ale pub in the whole of Hackney, was spotted last night as having no pump clips either.:confused:

Your best bet is the pavement for centrally located seating is at The Barrel Vault (JD Wetherspoon) (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/86846/).

Thanks Tris ,helpful as ever.

[rpadam]

What has shown up is the very poor capability of most pubs in relation to on-line presence/social media. With some notable exceptions (plus a lot of chain pubs on group websites of course), the majority of pubs seem to have great difficulty in putting anything on their websites regarding whether they are open or closed. Many are still showing their pre-March 2020 status; some even still claiming weekly quiz nights etc. Facebook is a bit better, and a good number have comments about opening on April 12 or whenever, some even listing opening hours, food serving times etc, but this is far from the norm. It is pretty basic marketing to keep customers informed of when they can buy from you, and sticking a blackboard out the front is not really up to the job anymore!

I totally agree - I am continually amazed about how little marketing effort many wet-led tenanted and freehouse pubs make.

Some may rightly think that they will only ever serve their immediate locality and not have a website or any social media presence at all; but many do, and then make little or no effort to keep them updated.

[NickDavies]

What has shown up is the very poor capability of most pubs in relation to on-line presence/social media..

It's down to the amateurish nature of much of the Trade. I've grumbled about this before. Today we sat ourselves down and the waitress came over. "What bitters have you got?" Blank look. "I'll have to go and find out". I mimed pulling a handpump and the penny dropped, "Oh you mean ales!" Maybe she thought I meant Campari or Angostura. Second thoughts I doubt that she would have had a clue if I ordered a Campari-soda. Anyway we finally got a drink of Grainstore Red Kit and it was a nice drink. What really impressed her was that my card worked on her machine without me taking it from my wallet. I fear Northants education department gave up on this one.

But what should happen is that every morning the guvnor should go through with the staff what beers are on and their characteristics like strength and style. Basic professionalism really. Even if you were allowed inside and could eyeball the pump clips they should still know what they are selling.

Another thought. Legally shouldn't a price list be displayed? There no point it being inside if you're not allowed in to peruse it.

[london calling]

Don't think you have to display a price list inside or out nowadays .

[Tris39]

Thanks Tris ,helpful as ever.

Hardly an ideal location along Pancras Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5326674,-0.1261008,3a,75y,277.95h,90.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbLN5PqnGitGyxEg5bVlO_Q!2e0!7i1 6384!8i8192), but it is central and away from 90% of Euston Road's traffic and aggressive begging - very close to the canal if that's your favoured means of transport.

[Delboy20]

Barring some great disaster I am venturing out to the pub tomorrow for the first time this year. The plan is a mini crawl of The Maverick (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/38652/) , Red Lion (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/38676/) , The Starving Rascal (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/38690/) and The Robin Hood Inn (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/55687/) . Fingers crossed :cheers:

[Mobyduck]

Barring some great disaster I am venturing out to the pub tomorrow for the first time this year. The plan is a mini crawl of The Maverick (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/38652/) , Red Lion (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/38676/) , The Starving Rascal (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/38690/) and The Robin Hood Inn (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/55687/) . Fingers crossed :cheers:

Go for it. :drinkup:

[NickDavies]

Hopefully there'll be beer

Risk of pubs running dry as drinkers wrap up for outdoor pint (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/02/risk-of-pubs-running-dry-as-drinkers-wrap-up-for-outdoor-pint)

[Delboy20]

Hopefully there'll be beer

Risk of pubs running dry as drinkers wrap up for outdoor pint (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/02/risk-of-pubs-running-dry-as-drinkers-wrap-up-for-outdoor-pint)

There was no shortage of beer. And good beer at that!

We had a great afternoon with no problems at all. I can wait a couple more weeks now for the next step of opening indoors.

[Pangolin]

CAMRA members should already have been notified but for anyone else, the All Party Parliamentary Group for Pubs is running an on-line inquiry on the effects of COVID and the future of pubs, which will be used to produce a report. Although they do not have any actual power, APPG activities are sometimes actually noticed by those who do and just occasionally contribute to changes, so it might be worth a few minutes to get some points across.

The survey is available at https://apppg.camra.org.uk/inquiry/ until May 21. (CAMRA provides the secretariat for the APPG)

[sheffield hatter]

[QUOTE=Pangolin;116112The survey is available at https://apppg.camra.org.uk/inquiry/ until May 21. (CAMRA provides the secretariat for the APPG)[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the link. It seemed to be for the most part a well-constructed survey, with plenty of open-ended questions and the chance to express opinions, not just loads of meaningless multiple choice tick boxes.

[rpadam]

CAMRA members should already have been notified but for anyone else, the All Party Parliamentary Group for Pubs is running an on-line inquiry on the effects of COVID and the future of pubs, which will be used to produce a report. Although they do not have any actual power, APPG activities are sometimes actually noticed by those who do and just occasionally contribute to changes, so it might be worth a few minutes to get some points across.

Duly done, and I feel a bit better having had the opportunity to make a few points to a group of parliamentarians who might actually be interested in listening...

[NickDavies]

Has anyone plucked up the courage to send a pint back yet? I got a short pint of admittedly spot-on Landlord here (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/57266/) this afternoon - but the poor kid was run off her feet, I didn't have the heart to moan.

[Spinko]

I'm not sure if the situation in tourist hotspots has been picked up here yet but I foresee big problems with labour shortages this summer in hospitality:

-EUers will have left due to Brexit and the plandemic;
-the furloughed may not wish to return immediately if at all (going back to work after two weeks off is bad enough, some will be fearful still, some won't be gagged up for hours);
-Londoners "WFH" have further put local prices out of reach for local or especially transient workers.

I think Quinno has it right with his trip to east Lancs! Those bidding up cottages to £4000/week won't be pleased...

[oldboots]

Has anyone plucked up the courage to send a pint back yet? I got a short pint of admittedly spot-on Landlord here (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/57266/) this afternoon - but the poor kid was run off her feet, I didn't have the heart to moan.

With people drinking bottles and cans at home perhaps they will be less likely to accept vinegar and short measures from pubs in future.

[Mobyduck]

Has anyone plucked up the courage to send a pint back yet? I got a short pint of admittedly spot-on Landlord here (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/57266/) this afternoon - but the poor kid was run off her feet, I didn't have the heart to moan.
Thankfully I've not had reason to yet,but I've only used four different pubs so far, ones I know well and look after their beer well.

[Tris39]

Has anyone plucked up the courage to send a pint back yet?

If only I'd had a pint to send back...:(

[sheffield hatter]

Has anyone plucked up the courage to send a pint back yet?

I did ask for a top up - I'm not saying which pub - it was our fifth round of drinks, and maybe the lass thought we were past caring, but it was seriously short. Actually, it wasn't even my drink, but it was my shout. :)

[Pangolin]

Has anyone plucked up the courage to send a pint back yet?

1/ One pub (garden) I was in, the server took one look at the pint she was about to present to me and said "that's not good enough" and took it back in for a top up without being prompted.

2/ Meanwhile in Yorkshire, our two pints of Boltmaker were one ok (by local, not southern standards) and one hiding under an inch or so of froth, but I needed the beer more than I needed a top-up with a further wait for the trek to the bar and back, so accepted it. A local couple opposite had something similar but very forthrightly sent the second one back.

[Tris39]

Walked past The Cock Tavern (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/25052/) which has reopened. Peered in the window only to see that the magnificent inline 16-pump beer engine didn't have a single clip. :(

[Mobyduck]

Walked past The Cock Tavern (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/25052/) which has reopened. Peered in the window only to see that the magnificent inline 16-pump beer engine didn't have a single clip. :(

Never realised they had a garden or outside drinking space? The absence of pump clips doesn't necessarily mean no cask, if punters aren't in the pub they're not needed.

[Tris39]

Never realised they had a garden or outside drinking space? The absence of pump clips doesn't necessarily mean no cask, if punters aren't in the pub they're not needed.

Yes, there's a tiny patio out back with some - possibly new - pavement seating. There's certainly keg of some sort, even if it's just fizz, but I think that not a single active pump is a bit lame for a specialist ale house - Tapping the Admiral had about 5/10 pumps in operation yesterday, perhaps things will change a week from now. :pray:

[rpadam]

Never realised they had a garden or outside drinking space? The absence of pump clips doesn't necessarily mean no cask, if punters aren't in the pub they're not needed.
Called in at a small village pub on my walk yesterday and spotted the pair of handpumps without clips through the front door as I was signing in. Fearing the worst, although thirsty enough to drink something else anyway, but the landlady confirmed she had two real ales on (with the clips to be added next week once the punters can get back inside).

[NickDavies]

Never realised they had a garden or outside drinking space? The absence of pump clips doesn't necessarily mean no cask, if punters aren't in the pub they're not needed.

I'd love to see a Wetherspoons work like that. Usually, the bar staff have to crane their necks round to the front to see which clip is which. Despite having used the same signal box for five hours solid.

[sheffield hatter]

I'd love to see a Wetherspoons work like that. Usually, the bar staff have to crane their necks round to the front to see which clip is which. Despite having used the same signal box for five hours solid.

Just one of many, many things that used to annoy me about Wetherspoons. Since I stopped using them, not so much.

[Tris39]

Never realised they had a garden or outside drinking space? The absence of pump clips doesn't necessarily mean no cask, if punters aren't in the pub they're not needed.

Passed again last night and a new note in the window states that it's not fully opening until 12th, so perhaps normality will return and I can go and surf the pumps, then perhaps check out the just opened Hackney Tap (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/89180/).

[Mobyduck]

Passed again last night and a new note in the window states that it's not fully opening until 12th, so perhaps normality will return and I can go and surf the pumps, then perhaps check out the just opened Hackney Tap (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/89180/).

The Hackney Tap is on my hit list but will probably wait till late June when things are hopefully even more normal and rid of this accursed table service.

[oldboots]

The Hackney Tap is on my hit list but will probably wait till late June when things are hopefully even more normal and rid of this accursed table service.

I have to say when it's done right table service is fine and mercifully avoids the bar blockers and other low life, however it does require sufficient on the ball staff (at extra cost) and adequate signage or beer menus.

When it was the norm' in saloon or lounge bars of course there were bell pushes to summon a waiter/ess, as we can still see in many old pubs, but I guess taking your own bell nowadays would be regarded as the action of a "dick" in spite of the shortcomings of the staff.

[sheffield hatter]

...when things are hopefully even more normal and rid of this accursed table service.


I have to say when it's done right table service is fine, however it does require sufficient on the ball staff (at extra cost) and adequate signage or beer menus.

Most of my pub visits so far have been to pubs where I am familiar with the beers that are likely to be available. Partly this is because the pubs have anticipated low demand and stuck to a core range of beers, and partly because a lot of the best pubs around here are owned or part-owned by breweries: Neepsend (Wellington, Blake Hotel), Kelham Island (Fat Cat), Loxley (Raven Inn), Stancill (Closed Shop), Tapped (Sheffield Tap), Chantry (Cutlers Arms), Abbeydale (Rising Sun) - so I know what they've got and I know what I like (or don't like). Once the likes of Shakespeare's and Crow Inn emerge from hibernation I'm going to want to get a glimpse of the pump clips again.

[bcfczuluarmy]

People may like table service but it's slow and rubbish and IMHO will equate to a round less while visiting for a few hours. So additional costs to implement table service means you are losing money as a landlord and passing costs on to the customer who are actually keeping your business alive.

At current times we will order next round when 1/3rd of a pint generally remaining. Not a great experience in my eyes and certainly nothing to bother going out of my way for a new visit or even a revisit if this is how a visit to a pub becomes. Boris just needs to say pubs can become pubs again and not a minefield of online bookings, QR codes or apps to get a drink and I can just order it by standing at the bar.

[Mobyduck]

Some table service works reasonably well in the right pub, in others it's poor but I don't like any off it, It's the restriction of freedom of movement thats the real pain and as for pubs that require pre-booking, well I haven't done it or intend to. Hopefully these requirements will all cease over the next couple of months.

[Gann]

Most of my pub visits so far have been to pubs where I am familiar with the beers that are likely to be available. Partly this is because the pubs have anticipated low demand and stuck to a core range of beers, and partly because a lot of the best pubs around here are owned or part-owned by breweries: Neepsend (Wellington, Blake Hotel), Kelham Island (Fat Cat).

Not sure if it has been pointed out already but there is a photo circulating on other beer blogger sites of some dodgy bloke spotted in the Fat Cat sporting some manicured chin growth. Strangely he won this month’s best dressed pub ticker award as well….

[sheffield hatter]

Not sure if it has been pointed out already but there is a photo circulating on other beer blogger sites of some dodgy bloke spotted in the Fat Cat sporting some manicured chin growth. Strangely he won this month’s best dressed pub ticker award as well….

I see him most mornings, when he stares back at me from the bathroom mirror with a puzzled look on his face.

[Tris39]

The Hackney Tap is on my hit list but will probably wait till late June when things are hopefully even more normal and rid of this accursed table service.

It looks attractive, certainly from the outside and would probably make for a good triple-header with The Pembury Tavern (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/25070/).


When it was the norm' in saloon or lounge bars of course there were bell pushes to summon a waiter/ess, as we can still see in many old pubs, but I guess taking your own bell nowadays would be regarded as the action of a "dick" in spite of the shortcomings of the staff.

Flight Club (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/23679/) has push button service, but that's where the old 'norm' comes to an abrupt end.


Hopefully these requirements will all cease over the next couple of months.

I think that's the idea come the 21st - hopefully masks too.

[Mobyduck]

Not sure if it has been pointed out already but there is a photo circulating on other beer blogger sites of some dodgy bloke spotted in the Fat Cat sporting some manicured chin growth. Strangely he won this month’s best dressed pub ticker award as well….

Obviously some sort of hipster.

[london calling]

Most of my pub visits so far have been to pubs where I am familiar with the beers that are likely to be available. Partly this is because the pubs have anticipated low demand and stuck to a core range of beers, and partly because a lot of the best pubs around here are owned or part-owned by breweries: Neepsend (Wellington, Blake Hotel), Kelham Island (Fat Cat), Loxley (Raven Inn), Stancill (Closed Shop), Tapped (Sheffield Tap), Chantry (Cutlers Arms), Abbeydale (Rising Sun) - so I know what they've got and I know what I like (or don't like). Once the likes of Shakespeare's and Crow Inn emerge from hibernation I'm going to want to get a glimpse of the pump clips again.
You will be glad to know
rutland -mon at 1200
shakey -mon at 14.00
crow -mon 15.00
enjoy

[sheffield hatter]

You will be glad to know
rutland -mon at 1200
shakey -mon at 14.00
crow -mon 15.00
enjoy

Thanks John.

I'm already planning on doing the Sheffield Tap, Fat Cat and Wellington on Monday, so maybe I'll leave those for a bit later in the week. Tuesday, perhaps. :)

[trainman]

I'll always call in, I guess, but the Sheffield Tap had quality issues on at least one of our beers on last couple of visits, and a narrow range of style considering the number of pumps available.

[hondo]

"came up with a figure of 124 per pints per adult, based on"
https://www.companydebt.com/features/124-pints-to-save-the-pub/
well down on my share not had a drink since march 2020 first pub visit hopefully at York races a week on saturday

[Mobyduck]

"came up with a figure of 124 per pints per adult, based on"
https://www.companydebt.com/features/124-pints-to-save-the-pub/
well down on my share not had a drink since march 2020 first pub visit hopefully at York races a week on saturday
About halfway there.

[sheffield hatter]

About halfway there.

76 pints so far, on 22 pub-going days.

[Tris39]

...first pub visit hopefully at York races a week on saturday

If the reopening timetable doesn't get derailed.

[hondo]

If the reopening timetable doesn't get derailed.
Yes numbers up in Glasgow & bits of England looking forward to the racing not sure about the pubs fear it will all be to regimental with all the dos & don’ts.

[Rex_Rattus]

Has anyone plucked up the courage to send a pint back yet? I got a short pint of admittedly spot-on Landlord here (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/57266/) this afternoon - but the poor kid was run off her feet, I didn't have the heart to moan.

I was presented with a contender for my shortest ever pint at my local. But the staff were run off their feet with the pub only having been open or an hour or so I let them off - but just this once. The card reader wasn't working so people were rummaging in pockets for cash (luckily Mrs R was with us so found a handful of tenners at the bottom of her handbag); the Greene King app only had one real on it and NOT one they were serving in the pub, and only wine by the glass and not the bottle. As it's my local I didn't feel like hassling the staff with whom I get on very well - and the following three pints were in good nick and brimfull.

[Mobyduck]

I was presented with a contender for my shortest ever pint at my local. But the staff were run off their feet with the pub only having been open or an hour or so I let them off - but just this once. The card reader wasn't working so people were rummaging in pockets for cash (luckily Mrs R was with us so found a handful of tenners at the bottom of her handbag); the Greene King app only had one real on it and NOT one they were serving in the pub, and only wine by the glass and not the bottle. As it's my local I didn't feel like hassling the staff with whom I get on very well - and the following three pints were in good nick and brimfull.

I would say that measure is seriously short!

[Rex_Rattus]

I would say that measure is seriously short!

This is my other contender - a close call I think. But there were no extenuating circumstances on that occasion and as I was at the bar I did of course ask for a top up (or perhaps more accurately the other half of the pint!)