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sheffield hatter
06-12-2019, 20:18
Six weeks after our Autumn 2019 crawl of Shrewsbury (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?29954-Autumn-2019-Shrewsbury-Crawl-Dates-and-Venues) and no one has started to talk about next year's venues and dates. Is this a record?

I know there was some talk about having a 10th Anniversary crawl of Birmingham later next year (though I hope we'll have it a little earlier in the autumn than the first one (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?3894-Pubs-Galore-Meet-Up-Friday-12-November-Birmingham), which took place on the 12th of November).

That still leaves a spring crawl and a summer one; a southern one and a northern one - with venues and dates to be discussed and agreed. I think I've heard it said that we shouldn't repeat previous venues until we've done Birmingham again, so this would mean finding two new venues.

Looking at previous years (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?16155-A-brief-history-of-PuG-crawls), we did the south in the spring in 2017, 2018 and 2019, but this doesn't mean a southern spring crawl is set in stone. Similarly, we've always done the spring crawl towards the end of March but in 2020 Easter is on April 12th, which potentially frees up Friday, 3rd April as a date for our crawl. So, how about a northern crawl on the first Friday in April? This has the advantage of an extra week or two of discussion before train tickets go on sale.

Last year there wasn't a poll for the northern crawl, as Sheffield was widely agreed to have been a glaring ommission in previous years. In 2018 everyone got a bit carried away with the idea of the Manchester tram system - it was all ROB Camra's fault for being away on holiday at the time, and we quickly came to our senses when he returned - and in 2017 we agreed on my suggestion for Stockport without a poll. So the last time we had a good debate about a northern venue (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?22271-Hull-pub-crawl-18th-March-2016) seems to have been four years ago, when it was determined that Lincoln was on the same latitude as Sheffield, and we ended up going to Hull.

So, just to get things started and despite the danger of kicking off a new round of #geographygalore, I hereby propose Lincoln for the spring crawl venue. Any comments? (Ducks hastily behind pile of sand bags left over from the recent River Don floods.)

rpadam
06-12-2019, 20:25
So, just to get things started and despite the danger of kicking off a new round of #geographygalore, I hereby propose Lincoln for the spring crawl venue. Any comments? (Ducks hastily behind pile of sand bags left over from the recent River Don floods.)
With Lincoln definitely being in the East Midlands (as Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln,_England) tells us, so it must be true), I'll nominate Macclesfield!

sheffield hatter
06-12-2019, 20:40
Macclesfield!

Refusing to rise to the provocation of your #geographygalore-insipred exclamation mark, I would merely say that Lincoln is a much better crawl venue for pubs and beer than the Cheshire-based town that you mention. [Albeit slightly further south than Macc.]

rpadam
06-12-2019, 20:45
Refusing to rise to the provocation of your #geographygalore-insipred exclamation mark, I would merely say that Lincoln is a much better crawl venue for pubs and beer than the Cheshire-based town that you mention. [Albeit slightly further south than Macc.]
I've never been to Macclesfield (so I've only ever read about its pubs on this site, where there have been some good reviews), but I can't disagree about Lincoln's merits - it's certainly worth an extended visit.

Tris39
06-12-2019, 21:04
I hereby propose Lincoln for the spring crawl venue.

Sounds fine by me and Lincoln cathedral was once the world's tallest building too.

Bucking Fastard
07-12-2019, 09:57
I think Lincoln is a decent call and the date looks good from my point of view.

It's been a while since I was last in Lincoln and there seems to be a lot more GBG entries these days,including the 'spoons near the station.Careful planning would be required as you don't want to be going up and down the steep rise to the cathedral too many times :p

oldboots
07-12-2019, 10:30
Looking at previous years (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?16155-A-brief-history-of-PuG-crawls), we did the south in the spring in 2017, 2018 and 2019, but this doesn't mean a southern spring crawl is set in stone. Similarly, we've always done the spring crawl towards the end of March but in 2020 Easter is on April 12th, which potentially frees up Friday, 3rd April as a date for our crawl. So, how about a northern crawl on the first Friday in April? This has the advantage of an extra week or two of discussion before train tickets go on sale.


This will clash with the Camra National AGM in York which a number of Puggers will probably attend.




So, just to get things started and despite the danger of kicking off a new round of #geographygalore, I hereby propose Lincoln for the spring crawl venue. Any comments?


Lincoln isn't a bad place for a crawl apart from that bloody hill, however it may prove a little difficult for some people to travel to, North /South isn't bad but west to east might be more of a challenge and more expensive.

rpadam
07-12-2019, 12:02
This will clash with the Camra National AGM in York which a number of Puggers will probably attend.
I am planning to be in York that weekend.

Aqualung
08-12-2019, 00:28
I am planning to be in York that weekend.

I'll go along with a northern venue for Spring as long as it doesn't mean a southern venue in Summer. Lincoln is far enough north for me to accept it as the North but I struggle a bit to enthuse about it although I really don't know it that well. I've been there 3 times over the years although the third time was just to go to the JDWs. Surely the venue should be confirmed before the date?

Pangolin
08-12-2019, 01:02
I don't mind Lincoln (in fact I was planning a trip there anyway) but would be equally happy with somewhere more properly oop North. First Friday in April doesn't work for me however.

Bucking Fastard
08-12-2019, 11:29
I'll go along with a northern venue for Spring as long as it doesn't mean a southern venue in Summer.

But with the Autumn crawl reserved for the 10 year anniversary in Birmingham,then the choice of the North in Spring implies that the Southern venue will be in June/early July as we tend to avoid peak Summer holiday dates for these crawls.

Aqualung
08-12-2019, 12:23
But with the Autumn crawl reserved for the 10 year anniversary in Birmingham,then the choice of the North in Spring implies that the Southern venue will be in June/early July as we tend to avoid peak Summer holiday dates for these crawls.

I'm happy to miss out the South!
I can see why SH has gone for Lincoln this time for similar reasons to the above. Given that it's in the North Eastern sector of the Midlands, if it doesn't get chosen this Spring or Summer then because of Brum it wll get kicked into the long grass of 2021 or beyond. Given that Durham & Newcastle are deemed too far away for a day out (and they are unless you live within easy reach of KX!), it makes sense to spread the North South a bit if you catch my drift.
BTW, the other remaining JDW is a Lloyds disaster. One of the disadvantages of Lincoln is that the main area around the Cathedral is a trek up a hill from the station but I'm sure there must be buses that can save the day. My two visits other than the JDW one bring back memories of Bateman pubs but I'm sure it must have improved.

Aqualung
08-12-2019, 12:27
First Friday in April doesn't work for me however.
It looks like the CAMRA event will rule it out.

oldboots
08-12-2019, 12:34
One of the disadvantages of Lincoln is that the main area around the Cathedral is a trek up a hill from the station but I'm sure there must be buses that can save the day.

There is, this one https://lincolnbus.co.uk/special-services/walk-and-ride

Some of my more infirm friends used it last time we went to Lincoln. A plan is to get the bus up to the top then walk back down via the pubs.

Just a reminder of the last poll: http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?29876-2019-Autumn-PuG-Crawl

sheffield hatter
08-12-2019, 13:44
I can see why SH has gone for Lincoln this time for similar reasons to the above. Given that it's in the North Eastern sector of the Midlands, if it doesn't get chosen this Spring or Summer then because of Brum it wll get kicked into the long grass of 2021 or beyond. Given that Durham & Newcastle are deemed too far away for a day out (and they are unless you live within easy reach of KX!), it makes sense to spread the North South a bit if you catch my drift.

Yes, my thinking was that blurring our definition of North in a southerly direction would have that effect. There are still Bateman pubs, but they're not as horrific as you depict them IMHO. See my review of the Dog & Bone (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/21382/), for example (ok, it's more than five years ago now) and I was in the Treaty of Commerce (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/53679/) a few weeks ago after a bike ride, and I thought it was as good as ever.

At the top of the hill, the Strugglers and the Victoria have been good for some years now, and there's also the newish BearHeadZ on Eastgate, and the Strait & Narrow further down the imaginitively named Steep Hill. As OB points out, the plan would be to get a bus to the top and let gravity do the rest!

AlanH
08-12-2019, 14:50
This will clash with the Camra National AGM in York which a number of Puggers will probably attend.




Lincoln isn't a bad place for a crawl apart from that bloody hill, however it may prove a little difficult for some people to travel to, North /South isn't bad but west to east might be more of a challenge and more expensive.

West to East as far as Lincoln is a huge challenge. I would support Macclesfield (only three trains!). Chester has good links with direct trains from Leeds, Rochdale, London, Birmingham & Cardiff (but hard to get to from Lincoln!).

Real Ale Ray
08-12-2019, 15:30
Would be very happy with Lincoln, as had intended to revisit at some point anyway, plus there's now a micropub.

rpadam
08-12-2019, 15:33
Just a reminder of the last poll: http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?29876-2019-Autumn-PuG-Crawl
That definitely was a poll for the Midlands (sorry Norwich) and not the North!

Aqualung
08-12-2019, 17:32
Yes, my thinking was that blurring our definition of North in a southerly direction would have that effect. There are still Bateman pubs, but they're not as horrific as you depict them IMHO.

It's not the pubs that I find horrific with Batemans but specifically their brown beers. I quite like the Salem Porter & Mild and a golden one that I can't remember the name of. It's the XB, XXXB & Rosy Nosey. They all have that unpleasant salty taste. You can add to that the fact that they committed the Cardinal Sin of watering down the XXXB.
I've no problems with their pubs having found them traditional and enjoyable although I haven't been in one for years now. I'm pretty sure I've been to several of the pubs mentioned. The Strugglers name definitely rings a bell.

oldboots
08-12-2019, 17:34
That definitely was a poll for the Midlands (sorry Norwich) and not the North!

Had Lincoln in it, that was the only point not a veiled attempt at geographygalore.

Come to Yorkshire if you want the North, but obviously not South Yorkshire as its the north Midlands or the north by a half east Midlands or is it northeast by north Midlands?

rpadam
08-12-2019, 17:59
Getting back to the point, any other suggestions apart from Lincoln and Macclesfield?

AlanH
08-12-2019, 18:11
Had Lincoln in it, that was the only point not a veiled attempt at geographygalore.

Come to Yorkshire if you want the North, but obviously not South Yorkshire as its the north Midlands or the north by a half east Midlands or is it northeast by north Midlands?

Having failed to win the Midland vote and now "moved" to the North, if Lincoln gets frozen out of the North Pole (sic), will it go for the hat-trick (or hatters trick:p) and be dragged down to the South for a third consecutive poll!

AlanH
08-12-2019, 18:18
Getting back to the point, any other suggestions apart from Lincoln and Macclesfield?

Chester! (#16)

sheffield hatter
08-12-2019, 19:16
It's not the pubs that I find horrific with Batemans but ...the fact that they committed the Cardinal Sin of watering down the XXXB.

You still haven't forgiven that? Even though it's nearly two years since it was restored to 4.8% (https://protzonbeer.co.uk/features/2018/01/10/tears-and-cheers-at-batemans-as-xxxb-celebrates-40-glorious-years)?

sheffield hatter
08-12-2019, 19:18
(or hatters trick:p) !

:eek:

sheffield hatter
08-12-2019, 19:20
a veiled attempt at geographygalore.

I knew this would happen.

oldboots
08-12-2019, 20:23
Getting back to the point, any other suggestions apart from Lincoln and Macclesfield?

North of a line from roughly Aberystwyth to the Wash:-

Burton upon Trent, Newark, Preston, Chesterfield, Beverley, Bolton, Leeds to Todmorden railway (Bradford, Halifax, Sowerby Bridge, Hebden Bridge, Tod'), Halifax, Harrogate, Southport, Stafford.


I'm assuming Lancaster, Darlington, Stockton and Middlesbrough are too difficult travel wise, ditto any places off the rail network.

rpadam
08-12-2019, 21:26
North of a line from roughly Aberystwyth to the Wash:-

Burton upon Trent, Newark, Preston, Chesterfield, Beverley, Bolton, Leeds to Todmorden railway (Bradford, Halifax, Sowerby Bridge, Hebden Bridge, Tod'), Halifax, Harrogate, Southport, Stafford.


I'm assuming Lancaster, Darlington, Stockton and Middlesbrough are too difficult travel wise, ditto any places off the rail network.
No-one's going to thank me for saying this, but Burton upon Trent, Newark and Chesterfield are all in East Midlands region counties, and Stafford is in the West Midlands.

Also, taking a 'via London' view of travel options, typical timings for those travelling from the South to the North look like this:

Macclesfield - 1'45" (direct)
Lincoln - 2'00" (1 change)
Chester - 2'00" (direct)
Preston - 2'10" (direct)
Lancaster - 2'25" (direct)
Darlington - 2'30" (direct)
Bolton - 2'35" (1 change)
Southport - 2'40" (2 changes)
Bradford - 2'45" (1 change)
Harrogate - 2'45" (1 change)
Halifax - 3'00" (1 change)
Beverley - 3'00" (1 change)
Hebden Bridge - 3'10" (1 change)
Sowerby Bridge - 3'20 (1 change)
Todmorden - 3'20 (2 changes)
Stockton - 3'20 (2 changes)
Middlesbrough - 3'20 (1 change)

Aqualung
08-12-2019, 21:44
You still haven't forgiven that? Even though it's nearly two years since it was restored to 4.8% (https://protzonbeer.co.uk/features/2018/01/10/tears-and-cheers-at-batemans-as-xxxb-celebrates-40-glorious-years)?
No I haven;t, I couldn't stomach ploughing through all of Protz's sycophantic drivel but saw no sign of an apology or an honest admission as to why they watered it down. The restoration of it had passed me by as I haven't seen it in a pub since it was removed as a National JDW guest.
At least they are not guilty of carrying out serial watering down like Robinson's, a brewery I once had a lot of respect for but not any more.

Aqualung
08-12-2019, 22:07
Burton upon Trent, Newark, Preston, Chesterfield, Beverley, Bolton, Leeds to Todmorden railway (Bradford, Halifax, Sowerby Bridge, Hebden Bridge, Tod'), Halifax, Harrogate, Southport, Stafford.


If we're talking Midlands then I would add Loughborough & Stourbridge.
Surely Tod to Bradford inclusive is too much? I would have chosen just Sowerby Bridge and Hebden Bridge. It might be easier to get a bus between the two.



I'm assuming Lancaster, Darlington, Stockton and Middlesbrough are too difficult travel wise, ditto any places off the rail network.

Lancaster is really just as much a trek as Newcastle or Durham. Are the other three towns good enough?

Has a PUG weekend ever been proposed?

rpadam
08-12-2019, 22:34
Lancaster is really just as much a trek as Newcastle or Durham.
Not really, certainly for those travelling from the South to the North 'via London', with the typical journey time to Lancaster being competitive with many cities further south at 2'25" (direct). For comparison:
Durham - 2'55" (direct)
Newcastle - 3'05" (direct)

Aqualung
08-12-2019, 23:58
Not really, certainly for those travelling from the South to the North 'via London', with the typical journey time to Lancaster being competitive with many cities further south at 2'25" (direct). For comparison:
Durham - 2'55" (direct)
Newcastle - 3'05" (direct)


Yes that non-stop blast to Warrington BQ certainly speeds it up. I was thinking more of those who have to use X Country or other services.

Spinko
09-12-2019, 05:14
North of a line from roughly Aberystwyth to the Wash:-

Burton upon Trent, Newark, Preston, Chesterfield, Beverley, Bolton, Leeds to Todmorden railway (Bradford, Halifax, Sowerby Bridge, Hebden Bridge, Tod'), Halifax, Harrogate, Southport, Stafford.


I'm assuming Lancaster, Darlington, Stockton and Middlesbrough are too difficult travel wise, ditto any places off the rail network.

Darlington has direct trains from quite a lot of places. Stockton (using Thornaby station) and Middlesbrough less so but each have ten or more options each. The main problem with the latter two though are most of the better options are pretty tiny - I would say micropub but they play music...

AlanH
09-12-2019, 07:55
Surely Tod to Bradford inclusive is too much? I would have chosen just Sowerby Bridge and Hebden Bridge. It might be easier to get a bus between the two.


I have done Halifax, Hebden Bridge, Todmorden all by train from Wales with a Camra branch. It was a very good crawl.

sheffield hatter
09-12-2019, 10:29
Leeds to Todmorden railway (Bradford, Halifax, Sowerby Bridge, Hebden Bridge, Tod')

This is a nice idea. Two or three pubs in each? It could work.

sheffield hatter
09-12-2019, 10:34
... no sign of an apology or an honest admission as to why they watered it down.

I think it was that they thought that a lot of potential customers were put off by 4.8% and might be more receptive to the same beer at 4.5% If they'd known how much it was going to piss you off, I'm sure they'd have had second thoughts. ;)

rpadam
09-12-2019, 21:27
I have done Halifax, Hebden Bridge, Todmorden all by train from Wales with a Camra branch. It was a very good crawl.
Yes, but a flipping long way from the south - 3 hours plus each way.

Pangolin
09-12-2019, 21:51
Widening the field a bit, I made a brief stop at Wigan last year and came across a few good pubs. Anyone local know if there are enough to make a crawl viable?

Places that I haven't been to for years include Preston, Wakefield and Warrington - any thoughts?

I did go to Darlington this year and my impression was that there are a limited number of good pubs.

Aqualung
09-12-2019, 22:28
I did go to Darlington this year and my impression was that there are a limited number of good pubs.

I'd agree with that, it's a handy place as a base and has an impressive Rail Station but that's about it.

sheffield hatter
09-12-2019, 23:00
Widening the field a bit, I made a brief stop at Wigan last year and came across a few good pubs. Anyone local know if there are enough to make a crawl viable?

Places that I haven't been to for years include Preston, Wakefield and Warrington - any thoughts?

I did go to Darlington this year and my impression was that there are a limited number of good pubs.

Your impression of Darlington matches my impression of the Three Ws mentioned by you. Maybe five or six in each.

Preston is pretty good, but there's quite a long way between pubs. I was there in August with a crew from Beer and Pubs Forum - see this thread: my post on 13 August has itinerary and walking distances, to save you reading the whole thing (https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/beerandpubs/preston-trip-friday-23-august-2019-t284-s40.html#p5150). Their suggested lunch stop in the Wellington was pretty awful, despite being in the Good Beer Guide, so in the interest of research I also visited Hogarths (cheap beer but good condition), the Princess Alice (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/19788/), the Wellfield (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/55918/) and the Plug & Taps microbar (standing room only at tea time). My idea of the best of Preston based on this visit would be as follows:

Continental (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/19661/)
Old Vic (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/19853/)
Hogarths (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/19852/)
Old Blue Bell (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/19635/)
Guild Ale House (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/83929/)
Moorbrook (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/19759/)
Vinyl Tap (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/19851/)
Market Tap (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/19752/)
Black Horse (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/19630/)
Plug & Taps (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/86609/)

Others that may be worth a try: The Orchard (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/86728/), Plau (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/85618/), The Northern Way (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/54193/) or even the (no longer Mad) Ferret (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/53695/). Any more, anyone?

Al Bundy
10-12-2019, 08:47
Widening the field a bit, I made a brief stop at Wigan last year and came across a few good pubs. Anyone local know if there are enough to make a crawl viable?

Places that I haven't been to for years include Preston, Wakefield and Warrington - any thoughts?

I did go to Darlington this year and my impression was that there are a limited number of good pubs.

Wakefield is quite good, as is Preston. I wouldn't bother with Warrington to be honest.

Aqualung
10-12-2019, 10:52
Wakefield is quite good, as is Preston. I wouldn't bother with Warrington to be honest.

I don't really know Warrington but have never got the impression there's much there. Wakefield has some great options but are there enough? Considering the size of Preston I'm not sure it's that great. I don't think Wigan's that bad but if Wigan Central was absent then I'd probably write it off.

oldboots
10-12-2019, 11:30
Wakefield is quite good, as is Preston. I wouldn't bother with Warrington to be honest.

Sadly daytime opening times in Wakefield are a bit limited even on Fridays, Ale & Hearty will clarify I'm sure. We did actually have a mini-crawl of Wakefield on 17th July 2015 while the southerners enjoyed St Albans.


Preston is definitely better for a crawl, no idea about Warrington and I don't mind Wigan but I doubt there's enough good pubs. It has 7 in the GBG that are central and several of those are a bit small.

Pubsignman
10-12-2019, 11:40
I don't really know Warrington but have never got the impression there's much there.

I did a ten pub crawl of Warrington a couple of months ago (I'm just about to start the write-ups), but would say only four or five were worth a revisit, although I believe a micro pub has opened since I was there. Not enough for a PuG crawl in my opinion. I've always thought Wigan, on the other hand, is one of the most under-rated places for a good pub crawl.

From the options suggested in this thread so far, I like the sound of Preston, Macclesfield, Bradford and (geography permitting) Lincoln.

aleandhearty
11-12-2019, 11:09
Places that I haven't been to for years include...Wakefield... - any thoughts?


Wakefield is quite good...


Wakefield has some great options but are there enough?


Sadly daytime opening times in Wakefield are a bit limited even on Fridays, Ale & Hearty will clarify I'm sure.


Wakefield has a good, solid drinking scene, but is maybe two or three venues short of a full day out. There are 9 pubs that I would nominate for a crawl, with a couple of others that just about flop over the finishing line, including the local 'spoons. Opening times are better than they were, with 6 of the 9 opening at 12. Of course, the three that open later include some of the better venues. One thing I've done in the past, to get round the delayed opening times, is take people on a short bus ride to Horbury and visit a decent cluster of pubs there, before heading back into the centre. However, that may be over-complicating things for a large group. In short, Wakey is a possibility, but realistically an outside choice.

Al Bundy
11-12-2019, 12:45
Chorley is good and its also compact. A bit of pain train wise though. Or has this already been done?

Brainypool
11-12-2019, 15:01
I don't really know Warrington but have never got the impression there's much there. Wakefield has some great options but are there enough? Considering the size of Preston I'm not sure it's that great. I don't think Wigan's that bad but if Wigan Central was absent then I'd probably write it off.

The restoration of the Swan & Railway and reopening of Tudor House have improved matters considerably in Wigan, and if you factor in the edge of town micro pubs it’s not a bad day out.

I also second the recommendations of Chorley and Preston though Warrington is pretty average from what I know about it.

Bucking Fastard
11-12-2019, 16:40
Having been to both Warrington and Wigan in June I would say they are well behind Wakefield in terms of ale variety and quality,while tacking on Horbury to Wakefield could produce a very fine day out.

Preston sounds an interesting call ,thanks Will for the solid research above.

AlanH
11-12-2019, 18:49
Of the towns mentioned so far, this is the number of pubs listed under "Town Centre" for each place and the number that sell Real Ale.
Obviously no guide to pub or beer quality but shows some towns might struggle to get near a decent "Full Winfield".
Of course the Yorkshire towns (except Wakefield) were suggested as a possible combined crawl for two or more venues.

_______________Pubs___RealAle

Bradford...............55..... 29
Chester................94..... 54
Chorley................34..... 24
Halifax.................46..... 26
Hebden Bridge......15.... 13
Lincoln.................54.... 38
Macclesfield..........52.... 40
Preston................60.... 29
Sowerby Bridge.....21.... 17
Todmorden...........18.... 13
Wakefield.............60.... 32
Warrington...........52.... 18
Wigan..................35.... 19

rpadam
13-12-2019, 20:18
We seem to have a decent number of options and no new suggestions in the last few days, so here's a poll: 2020 Spring Crawl to The North (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?30665-2020-Spring-Crawl-to-The-North).

sheffield hatter
24-12-2019, 01:32
Here's a summary of the discussion of the suggested venues for our crawl in the north next spring:


Getting back to the point, any other suggestions apart from Lincoln and Macclesfield?


North of a line from roughly Aberystwyth to the Wash:-

Burton upon Trent, Newark, Preston, Chesterfield, Beverley, Bolton, Leeds to Todmorden railway (Bradford, Halifax, Sowerby Bridge, Hebden Bridge, Tod'), Halifax, Harrogate, Southport, Stafford.

I'm assuming Lancaster, Darlington, Stockton and Middlesbrough are too difficult travel wise, ditto any places off the rail network.


I have done Halifax, Hebden Bridge, Todmorden all by train from Wales with a Camra branch. It was a very good crawl.


Yes, but a flipping long way from the south - 3 hours plus each way.


Surely Tod to Bradford inclusive is too much? I would have chosen just Sowerby Bridge and Hebden Bridge. It might be easier to get a bus between the two.


Wakefield is quite good, as is Preston. I wouldn't bother with Warrington to be honest.


I don't really know Warrington but have never got the impression there's much there. Wakefield has some great options but are there enough? Considering the size of Preston I'm not sure it's that great. I don't think Wigan's that bad but if Wigan Central was absent then I'd probably write it off.


Preston is definitely better for a crawl, no idea about Warrington and I don't mind Wigan but I doubt there's enough good pubs. It has 7 in the GBG that are central and several of those are a bit small.


From the options suggested in this thread so far, I like the sound of Preston, Macclesfield, Bradford and (geography permitting) Lincoln.

Absolutely nobody has provided any arguments for going to Halifax, and yet in the poll it is a tie between Halifax and Preston. In the run off, Halifax has already got three votes and Preston none. Do we know who is voting for Halifax? Is it Vladimir Putin? If so, I will definitely be there. (In previous polls we could see who had cast their votes for which option, but in this one it seems to be hidden. No probs, Vlad.)

Travel information: Preston is on the west coast main line; Halifax is a tough journey from (to take a random example) Bristol; and it's similarly much longer from London to Halifax compared to Preston. (Lancaster was thought to be too far, but is only 15 mins further than Preston; Halifax is a good hour more than Preston.)


Anyway, I've no particular axe to grind, as I've been to Preston twice recently and Halifax not long before, so I don't mind where we go, just so long as everyone is fully informed. So here's a comparison:


Preston is pretty good, but there's quite a long way between pubs. I was there in August with a crew from Beer and Pubs Forum - see this thread: my post on 13 August has itinerary and walking distances, to save you reading the whole thing (https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/beerandpubs/preston-trip-friday-23-august-2019-t284-s40.html#p5150). Their suggested lunch stop in the Wellington was pretty awful, despite being in the Good Beer Guide, so in the interest of research I also visited Hogarths (cheap beer but good condition), the Princess Alice (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/19788/), the Wellfield (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/55918/) and the Plug & Taps microbar (standing room only at tea time). My idea of the best of Preston based on this visit would be as follows:

Continental (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/19661/)
Old Vic (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/19853/)
Hogarths (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/19852/)
Old Blue Bell (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/19635/)
Guild Ale House (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/83929/)
Moorbrook (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/19759/)
Vinyl Tap (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/19851/)
Market Tap (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/19752/)
Black Horse (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/19630/)
Plug & Taps (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/86609/)

Others that may be worth a try: The Orchard (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/86728/), Plau (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/85618/), The Northern Way (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/54193/) or even the (no longer Mad) Ferret (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/53695/).

Of recent reviews of Halifax pubs, these are possibles:

The Grayston Unity (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/84203/)
Kobenhavn (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/88100/)
The Lantern (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/85879/)
Meandering Bear (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/88144/)
Ring o' Bells (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/56483/)
The Royal Oak (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/40525/)
Square Chapel Bar (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/85370/)
The Three Pigeons (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/40530/)
The Upper George (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/40536/)
Victorian Craft Beer Cafe (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/82635/)
Yates's (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/40549/) (see also https://whatpub.com/pubs/HAL/1251/yatess-halifax).

(I haven't checked WhatPub for all the others, so I may have missed something.)


Maybe not much to choose between the two possible venues beer-wise.

Halifax is perhaps more compact. (Haven't analysed this - just an impression.)

The difference travel-wise may be off-putting for some. (Not me. :cool: )

Aqualung
24-12-2019, 08:25
Absolutely nobody has provided any arguments for going to Halifax.


Neither Preston or Halifax is ideal for me. Preston is a big city whereas Halifax is smaller but if I remember rightly, hilly. What really swung Halifax for me is that there should be a new JDW in Leeds by then, I can stay at Bradford Premier Inn and on the Saturday can go to Hebden Beidge for the Hare & Hounds and the Vocation bar. I agree that it is too far for a day out but I assume most people will make a long weekend of it.
Assuming it's Brum this Autumn (and it should be) I'll be staying in Wolverhampton rather than just doing a day trip.
I've hot a Preston stay lined up in March but will be travelling elsewhere rather than the city.

AlanH
24-12-2019, 14:58
Here's a summary of the discussion of the suggested venues for our crawl in the north next spring:



















Absolutely nobody has provided any arguments for going to Halifax, and yet in the poll it is a tie between Halifax and Preston. In the run off, Halifax has already got three votes and Preston none. Do we know who is voting for Halifax? Is it Vladimir Putin? If so, I will definitely be there. (In previous polls we could see who had cast their votes for which option, but in this one it seems to be hidden. No probs, Vlad.)

Travel information: Preston is on the west coast main line; Halifax is a tough journey from (to take a random example) Bristol; and it's similarly much longer from London to Halifax compared to Preston. (Lancaster was thought to be too far, but is only 15 mins further than Preston; Halifax is a good hour more than Preston.)

Maybe not much to choose between the two possible venues beer-wise.

Halifax is perhaps more compact. (Haven't analysed this - just an impression.)

The difference travel-wise may be off-putting for some. (Not me. :cool: )
[/LIST]

Halifax did do very well as, along with Bradford, it was only first mentioned as a possible part of the "Yorkshire towns" crawl. On my visit there, I liked it a lot, but we only had time to do 6 or 7 pubs before moving on to Hebden Bridge and Todmorden.
It was a 3+ hour journey for me for a mere 89 miles, but doable.

The only time I have been through Preston was on a coach to Blackpool before they built the Preston bypass! As that was about 60 years ago, it will be all new to me. I am happy with either. Just glad it wasn't Lincoln as the 5 hour multi train journey from Wales is just too much!

rpadam
24-12-2019, 23:55
In the run off, Halifax has already got three votes and Preston none. Do we know who is voting for Halifax? Is it Vladimir Putin?
Tied 4-all now.

Aqualung
25-12-2019, 13:30
Tied 4-all now.

Now 5 each. What happens if it's another draw?

rpadam
25-12-2019, 17:42
Now 5 each. What happens if it's another draw?
Penalties!

Spinko
25-12-2019, 18:22
Preston is very easy to get to but Halifax is relying on Northern Rail. However the best Preston pub, the Moorbrook, is slightly out of town. As a former Preston resident I'd recommend there over the fax, but it's nip and tuck from Stockton

Aqualung
26-12-2019, 00:07
Preston is very easy to get to but Halifax is relying on Northern Rail. However the best Preston pub, the Moorbrook, is slightly out of town. As a former Preston resident I'd recommend there over the fax, but it's nip and tuck from Stockton

I think you've summed it up. Preston is certainly easier to get to but I've been to Hebden Bridge for a day out even in BR days and that was from Manchester rather than Leeds. I've heard people enthuse more about Halifax than Preston but I don't know either well enough to offer an opinion. .

Mobyduck
26-12-2019, 09:11
At this point in time I am unlikely to be going to either due to distance/price, so haven't voted in the two way vote off, I did originally vote for Lincoln which would have been doable in a day .

oldboots
26-12-2019, 12:59
Preston is very easy to get to ...

That all depends where you start, Halifax is much easier, quicker and cheaper for me (4 direct trains per hour), I have 1 direct train an hour to Preston unless I go to Manchester on one of TPE's overcrowded boxes and change, making a 6 hour round trip even longer. For me the pub stock in Halifax is better quality and more varied than Preston.

Pangolin
26-12-2019, 14:01
At this point in time I am unlikely to be going to either due to distance/price, so haven't voted in the two way vote off, I did originally vote for Lincoln which would have been doable in a day .

Timewise, it is virtually the same Basingstoke to Preston or Lincoln, although Lincoln is generally cheaper, being nearer. Depends a bit on finding the best advance fares. Halifax is worse on both counts.

Mobyduck
26-12-2019, 15:00
Timewise, it is virtually the same Basingstoke to Preston or Lincoln, although Lincoln is generally cheaper, being nearer. Depends a bit on finding the best advance fares. Halifax is worse on both counts.

Yes neither ruled out , cheap deals permitting, still unlikely though , so I don't want to influence a vote I am probably unlikely to attend.

rpadam
27-12-2019, 20:37
6-all...

AlanH
28-12-2019, 07:14
One of the Halifax options from London is to "Change at Preston". Perhaps the crawl should be 6 or 7 pubs in each!

Aqualung
28-12-2019, 08:04
One of the Halifax options from London is to "Change at Preston". Perhaps the crawl should be 6 or 7 pubs in each! ������ ������
I travelled that line from Bradford when my trip up the Settle-Carlisle line was scuppered with no explanation from the dire Northern Fail. It's great for rainy overcast Pennine scenery!

Tris39
28-12-2019, 20:30
At this point in time I am unlikely to be going to either due to distance/price, so haven't voted in the two way vote off, I did originally vote for Lincoln which would have been doable in a day .

I've yet to vote and will probably decide - if I go due to cost - based on travel time.

I too voted for Lincoln despite being unable to fathom out quite why this city, which is resolutely in the Midlands, made it onto a Northern crawl...:confused:

Tris39
29-12-2019, 19:42
Yup - voted for Preston. I can't comment on the pubs but Preston is nearly an hour nearer by train and is direct rather than requiring a change. It's cheaper too.

rpadam
02-01-2020, 22:17
Final score: Halifax 7 - 10 Preston.

I'll do a poll for some dates next, but a shorter 7-day one because the cheap train tickets will start to go soon.