boring brown bitter

[london calling]

After reading TiredMartins blog for a while I thought I should try a few beers that I would not normally drink to see if they were as bad as I thought.He raves about Bass a beer that I ignore as I never could find anything special about it.
I tried to drink them first pint of the night and only in pubs that sell lots of it

these were good and I would drink again
youngs -special
st austell-tribute
fullers -esb

these were okay
sharps -doombar
harveys -sussex (this could have ended up in top or bottom category as it has a strange taste to me
tt -landlord (too sweet)

not for me
ruddles -bitter
mcmullens -county
palmers -copper ale
badger -best bitter
fullers -pride (very malty with little hop presence)

worst beer
sheps -spitfire

And the beer that got me started
Bass (surprisingly good and I could have swore it had American hops in it but very variable as I have had good then great pints of it on different nights.

any BBB drinkers out there?

[Tris39]

After reading TiredMartins blog for a while I thought I should try a few beers that I would not normally drink to see if they were as bad as I thought.He raves about Bass a beer that I ignore as I never could find anything special about it.
I tried to drink them first pint of the night and only in pubs that sell lots of it

these were good and I would drink again
youngs -special
st austell-tribute
fullers -esb

these were okay
sharps -doombar
harveys -sussex (this could have ended up in top or bottom category as it has a strange taste to me
tt -landlord (too sweet)

not for me
ruddles -bitter
mcmullens -county
palmers -copper ale
badger -best bitter
fullers -pride (very malty with little hop presence)

worst beer
sheps -spitfire

And the beer that got me started
Bass (surprisingly good and I could have swore it had American hops in it but very variable as I have had good then great pints of it on different nights.

any BBB drinkers out there?

I tend to go for more of a pale ale or something from Hammerton, Purity, XT, Five Points or Thornbridge (not their Curse of the Cucumber stuff); I also quite like Ghost Ship.

I'm quite partial to Landlord and don't mind Special if on good form, likewise Tribute and Spitfire in limited quantities, Sussex too; Ruddles or Badger I'd avoid as both remind me of the 1980s.

Worst beer? Doom Bar, which doesn't seem to have seen a hop, tasting a bit astringent. I was told by a quite reliable source that it's stocked so liberally (in London at least) because of its low wholesale price. I've also really gone off Pride which for me is just Doom Bar in a red satin basque with suspenders and black fishnets.;)

[Aqualung]

After reading TiredMartins blog for a while I thought I should try a few beers that I would not normally drink to see if they were as bad as I thought.He raves about Bass a beer that I ignore as I never could find anything special about it.
I tried to drink them first pint of the night and only in pubs that sell lots of it

these were good and I would drink again
youngs -special
st austell-tribute
fullers -esb

these were okay
sharps -doombar
harveys -sussex (this could have ended up in top or bottom category as it has a strange taste to me
tt -landlord (too sweet)

not for me
ruddles -bitter
mcmullens -county
palmers -copper ale
badger -best bitter
fullers -pride (very malty with little hop presence)

worst beer
sheps -spitfire

And the beer that got me started
Bass (surprisingly good and I could have swore it had American hops in it but very variable as I have had good then great pints of it on different nights.

any BBB drinkers out there?

Interesting, I haven't had a decent pint of Bass for nearly forty years now. Young's and Fuller's have priced themselves out of my market and I' won't go to a McMullen's pub after the way they trashed their outlet on the outskirts of Chingford. Badger Best and London Pride are both sweet beers. London Pride is £2.79 in the Wanstead George with guests up to 6% abv just £2.15. I'm really not sure about Young's Special but Tribute can be decent and is more orange than boring brown. To me Landlord isn't even a boring brown beer, it's mainstream. I generally go for less ubiquitous Harvey's beers than Sussex but I do have an attachment to it in one of their tied houses. When I was going around West Country JDWs I fitted in a couple of Palmers tied houses and found their beer a lot better than I remembered from decades ago. I'm not even going to comment on Doom Bore. Shep's Master Brew and Spitfire are very poor compared to that they have been in the past. I had their Spitfire Gold in a Cheshire JDW and it was superb. Shep's still can brew some decent beer and occasionally do.
Ruddles Best is a rubbish beer brewed for JDWs and deserves the same disdain given to Younger's Scotch from over 20 years ago. It's a disgrace that GK are allowed to use the Ruddles brand,
When I was in the Wolverhampton Lych Gate Tavern one day last year they had Wimbledon Copper Leaf on which was going down really well and I also enjoyed. I think I've mentioned elsewhere the excellent Black Sheep Bitter I had in a Flint pub last year.
The biggest problem is that there are so many pubs around with not enough demand for a real ale and / or they just can't be bothered to look after it. This is even more pronounced outside the major cities of Scotland and Wales. It doesn't seem to be so pronounced in England.

[NickDavies]

any BBB drinkers out there?

Yes.

Cut my teeth on Brakspear's ordinary and Morland's bitter. If either (especially the latter) were around today (and not any Marston's or GK fakes) I'd live on them. Later on in London, I coped fine with Chiswick or Ordinary or even, for a while, Charrington's IPA. As the years passed we moved a bit further south and perfection in Harvey's Best was in striking distance. Forty years on, now in the Midlands, the Hook Norton - Hooky - or Purity (Ubu or Goose) we get round here are excellent. And a run out for some Batham's is always a treat.

[Aqualung]

Yes.

Cut my teeth on Brakspear's ordinary and Morland's bitter. If either (especially the latter) were around today (and not any Marston's or GK fakes) I'd live on them. Later on in London, I coped fine with Chiswick or Ordinary or even, for a while, Charrington's IPA. As the years passed we moved a bit further south and perfection in Harvey's Best was in striking distance. Forty years on, now in the Midlands, the Hook Norton - Hooky - or Purity (Ubu or Goose) we get round here are excellent. And a run out for some Batham's is always a treat.

By 1979 I'd been round every Brakspear outlet and knew their beers very well. For me the ordinary never tasted as good in London as in one of their own pubs. Taylor's Landlord always seemed the same. I knew Morland's but not as well as Brakspear. Their ordinary bitter was very dry for a Southern beer. I think Morland probably went wrong by buying a shed load of dross pubs being offloaded by the big six. I still have some faith in Hook Norton but the Hooky used to be quite cheap in their tied houses and is a low abv pale. I've never been all that struck with Purity but haven't really tried a lot of it. I agree about Batham's but generally only ever drink it in their own pubs. It's not really a brown beer (neither are Holden's standard bitters).

I had a couple of Holt's bitters this week and quite enjoyed them. It is brown but has a good bitterness. The price tag of £2.96 was a lot higher than I expected!

[Mobyduck]

After reading TiredMartins blog for a while I thought I should try a few beers that I would not normally drink to see if they were as bad as I thought.He raves about Bass a beer that I ignore as I never could find anything special about it.
I tried to drink them first pint of the night and only in pubs that sell lots of it

these were good and I would drink again
youngs -special
st austell-tribute
fullers -esb

these were okay
sharps -doombar
harveys -sussex (this could have ended up in top or bottom category as it has a strange taste to me
tt -landlord (too sweet)

not for me
ruddles -bitter
mcmullens -county
palmers -copper ale
badger -best bitter
fullers -pride (very malty with little hop presence)

worst beer
sheps -spitfire

And the beer that got me started
Bass (surprisingly good and I could have swore it had American hops in it but very variable as I have had good then great pints of it on different nights.

any BBB drinkers out there?

The top two for me of the beers listed by John above would be Tribute and Landlord but they're not really brown in my book, the rest I could happily leave alone, not tried Bass for years. Faced by the lineup in the top picture of this post (https://retiredmartin.com/2019/02/07/potteries-phil-power-pedigree-pods/) from Martin, I would sooner go for Guinness or Stella, I'm hoping to have a few pints with Martin some when in the next two or three weeks in Southampton, there will be no brown beer on my part.

[Mobyduck]

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/beerandpubs/boring-brown-bitter-t255.html#p4240

[oldboots]

any BBB drinkers out there?

Not much choice in a lot of North Yorkshire, Theakstons, Black Sheep or John Smiths only in most pubs unless you're in York or Harrogate. Sam Smiths (if you can find one of their pubs that's open) is generally cold vinegar and best avoided. I wouldn't call Landlord a BBB, it is notoriously difficult to look after and requires a lot of cellar time but when on form is glorious. Bass is extremely variable and used to have a reputation as hard to keep well.

The others are a bit southern apart from the bloody awful Doombar, the less awful Pride and the quite good Tribute. I grew up on Courage Best which really was a boring brown bitter especially when it was brewed in Bristol, thank god Ringwood came along (before Marstons screwed it up). Palmers and Badger never appealed to me, and I used to drink McMullens keg mild in preference to their bitter. Visits to London meant decent Youngs and Fullers but that was a long time ago.

[sheffield hatter]

any BBB drinkers out there?

I react badly to the use of the term "boring brown beer", with the implication that the person who owns up to liking it (whatever "it" may be) is lacking in taste and discernment. In fact, a lot of the beers mentioned in this post are not what I would call brown, though I would agree that many of them are bland. In my opinion this is because they are national brands which are trading on their name rather than their taste. The brewer therefore has to avoid doing anything to the beer that would frighten the horses. Like adding hops.


I've also really gone off Pride which for me is just Doom Bar in a red satin basque with suspenders and black fishnets.;)

I like the image, though in reality I don't find that London Pride bears any resemblance to Doom Bar in terms of colour or flavour; the only similarity perhaps being that it is ubiquitous in pubs where the licensee has no afinity for real ale and therefore doesn't have much idea of how to keep it and serve it well.


I think I've mentioned elsewhere the excellent Black Sheep Bitter I had in a Flint pub last year.


I had a couple of Holt's bitters this week and quite enjoyed them. It is brown but has a good bitterness. The price tag of £2.96 was a lot higher than I expected!

Those are two beers that still fully deserve the name "bitter". Too many beers I come across nowadays have nothing bitter about them apart from the name on the pump clip. To the extent that I was afraid the problem lay with my ageing taste buds, until drinking again the two beers mentioned by Aqualung. I miss Boddingtons and Tetleys, two extremely bitter beers from the past. The latest version of Tetleys is sweet rather than bitter, in my experience.

[Mobyduck]

I react badly to the use of the term "boring brown beer", with the implication that the person who owns up to liking it (whatever "it" may be) is lacking in taste and discernment. In fact, a lot of the beers mentioned in this post are not what I would call brown, though I would agree that many of them are bland. In my opinion this is because they are national brands which are trading on their name rather than their taste. The brewer therefore has to avoid doing anything to the beer that would frighten the horses. Like adding hops.
Your assessment is quite correct, although I am guilty of using the term, usually its tongue in cheek, the culprits are the national brands which are bland and subsequently boring to my taste. Of course I am well aware there are tasty brown beers out there as indeed there are boring golden and pale beers,more often than not from the national brands again. So from now on BBB stands for Boring Bland Beer.

[sheffield hatter]

Your assessment is quite correct, although I am guilty of using the term, usually its tongue in cheek, the culprits are the national brands which are bland and subsequently boring to my taste. Of course I am well aware there are tasty brown beers out there as indeed there are boring golden and pale beers,more often than not from the national brands again. So from now on BBB stands for Boring Bland Beer.

Thanks Mick. I know your BBB references are more often than not tongue in cheek, though that knowledge doesn't necessarily stop them getting under my skin!

Two of the blandest pale beers in my experience are Thwaites Wainwright, now just known as Wainwright, a nationally available brand named after a famous son of Blackburn (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Wainwright), and the locally popular Bradfield Farmers Blonde. Always referred to by me and my Sheffield mates as Farmers Bland, this beer is the most popular choice in the Kelham Island Tavern. Boring Bland Beer indeed.

[Aqualung]

Two of the blandest pale beers in my experience are Thwaites Wainwright, now just known as Wainwright, a nationally available brand named after a famous son of Blackburn (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Wainwright), and the locally popular Bradfield Farmers Blonde. Always referred to by me and my Sheffield mates as Farmers Bland, this beer is the most popular choice in the Kelham Island Tavern. Boring Bland Beer indeed.

I agree with you about Wainwright and I know all about the name as well as the newish Keswick pub. As far as I'm concerned all those Farmers beers are rubbish and it's totally appropriate that Farmers is Cockney Rhyming Slang for piles. Many years ago Thwaites opened a pub in London and certainly then their bitter was a proper brown bitter. Another real Turkey is their Lancaster Bomber but the Marston stable seem to have a plethora of rubbish beers nowadays.

I still quite like JW Lees bitter although I'm not sure whether it would be classed as brown. I also quite like some that are more orange in hue like Old Hooky, Wherry and one of the Triple fff ones (Moondance?).

[Mobyduck]

Thanks Mick. I know your BBB references are more often than not tongue in cheek, though that knowledge doesn't necessarily stop them getting under my skin!

:evilgrin:

[Mobyduck]

I agree with you about Wainwright and I know all about the name as well as the newish Keswick pub. As far as I'm concerned all those Farmers beers are rubbish and it's totally appropriate that Farmers is Cockney Rhyming Slang for piles. Many years ago Thwaites opened a pub in London and certainly then their bitter was a proper brown bitter. Another real Turkey is their Lancaster Bomber but the Marston stable seem to have a plethora of rubbish beers nowadays.

I still quite like JW Lees bitter although I'm not sure whether it would be classed as brown. I also quite like some that are more orange in hue like Old Hooky, Wherry and one of the Triple fff ones (Moondance?).

Moondance is nice, plenty of flavour, I'm not sure Wherry is what it once was, possibly suffering from increased output?

[london calling]

There is no such thing as a boring brown bitter its just a phase us beer geeks use to describe regional and national blands.It alliterates better than boring brown pale coppery amber coloured bitters.I have just passed the 9850 different beers mark so have drunk more bbb than the average drinker.One thing I will make clear is that if someone tells me they like a particular beer (recently a guy I met thought Sheps -Master Brew was perfection) I say great keep drinking it.One mans meat another mans poison.

[london calling]

I tend to go for more of a pale ale or something from Hammerton, Purity, XT, Five Points or Thornbridge (not their Curse of the Cucumber stuff); I also quite like Ghost Ship.

I'm quite partial to Landlord and don't mind Special if on good form, likewise Tribute and Spitfire in limited quantities, Sussex too; Ruddles or Badger I'd avoid as both remind me of the 1980s.

Worst beer? Doom Bar, which doesn't seem to have seen a hop, tasting a bit astringent. I was told by a quite reliable source that it's stocked so liberally (in London at least) because of its low wholesale price. I've also really gone off Pride which for me is just Doom Bar in a red satin basque with suspenders and black fishnets.;)
None of the first six beers meet the bbb rules.

[london calling]

Interesting, I haven't had a decent pint of Bass for nearly forty years now. Young's and Fuller's have priced themselves out of my market and I' won't go to a McMullen's pub after the way they trashed their outlet on the outskirts of Chingford. Badger Best and London Pride are both sweet beers. London Pride is £2.79 in the Wanstead George with guests up to 6% abv just £2.15. I'm really not sure about Young's Special but Tribute can be decent and is more orange than boring brown. To me Landlord isn't even a boring brown beer, it's mainstream. I generally go for less ubiquitous Harvey's beers than Sussex but I do have an attachment to it in one of their tied houses. When I was going around West Country JDWs I fitted in a couple of Palmers tied houses and found their beer a lot better than I remembered from decades ago. I'm not even going to comment on Doom Bore. Shep's Master Brew and Spitfire are very poor compared to that they have been in the past. I had their Spitfire Gold in a Cheshire JDW and it was superb. Shep's still can brew some decent beer and occasionally do.
Ruddles Best is a rubbish beer brewed for JDWs and deserves the same disdain given to Younger's Scotch from over 20 years ago. It's a disgrace that GK are allowed to use the Ruddles brand,
When I was in the Wolverhampton Lych Gate Tavern one day last year they had Wimbledon Copper Leaf on which was going down really well and I also enjoyed. I think I've mentioned elsewhere the excellent Black Sheep Bitter I had in a Flint pub last year.
The biggest problem is that there are so many pubs around with not enough demand for a real ale and / or they just can't be bothered to look after it. This is even more pronounced outside the major cities of Scotland and Wales. It doesn't seem to be so pronounced in England.

Wimbledon brew basic styles but do them well.

[london calling]

Yes.

Cut my teeth on Brakspear's ordinary and Morland's bitter. If either (especially the latter) were around today (and not any Marston's or GK fakes) I'd live on them. Later on in London, I coped fine with Chiswick or Ordinary or even, for a while, Charrington's IPA. As the years passed we moved a bit further south and perfection in Harvey's Best was in striking distance. Forty years on, now in the Midlands, the Hook Norton - Hooky - or Purity (Ubu or Goose) we get round here are excellent. And a run out for some Batham's is always a treat.
My son lives in Sunbury where there are 2 possibly 3 Breakspears pubs and the pint of bitter I drank about a year ago would fit in the lowest category.

[london calling]

By 1979 I'd been round every Brakspear outlet and knew their beers very well. For me the ordinary never tasted as good in London as in one of their own pubs. Taylor's Landlord always seemed the same. I knew Morland's but not as well as Brakspear. Their ordinary bitter was very dry for a Southern beer. I think Morland probably went wrong by buying a shed load of dross pubs being offloaded by the big six. I still have some faith in Hook Norton but the Hooky used to be quite cheap in their tied houses and is a low abv pale. I've never been all that struck with Purity but haven't really tried a lot of it. I agree about Batham's but generally only ever drink it in their own pubs. It's not really a brown beer (neither are Holden's standard bitters).

I had a couple of Holt's bitters this week and quite enjoyed them. It is brown but has a good bitterness. The price tag of £2.96 was a lot higher than I expected!
Purity are a good brewer like Wimbledon and seem to sell a lot of beer round London.

[rpadam]

Any BBB drinkers out there?
Yes, so thanks for asking!

[london calling]

Not much choice in a lot of North Yorkshire, Theakstons, Black Sheep or John Smiths only in most pubs unless you're in York or Harrogate. Sam Smiths (if you can find one of their pubs that's open) is generally cold vinegar and best avoided. I wouldn't call Landlord a BBB, it is notoriously difficult to look after and requires a lot of cellar time but when on form is glorious. Bass is extremely variable and used to have a reputation as hard to keep well.

The others are a bit southern apart from the bloody awful Doombar, the less awful Pride and the quite good Tribute. I grew up on Courage Best which really was a boring brown bitter especially when it was brewed in Bristol, thank god Ringwood came along (before Marstons screwed it up). Palmers and Badger never appealed to me, and I used to drink McMullens keg mild in preference to their bitter. Visits to London meant decent Youngs and Fullers but that was a long time ago.
Sam Smiths would fall into the last category but I remember have 3 pints in the Cittie of York that were superb.Sadly about 8 years ago.

[london calling]

I react badly to the use of the term "boring brown beer", with the implication that the person who owns up to liking it (whatever "it" may be) is lacking in taste and discernment. In fact, a lot of the beers mentioned in this post are not what I would call brown, though I would agree that many of them are bland. In my opinion this is because they are national brands which are trading on their name rather than their taste. The brewer therefore has to avoid doing anything to the beer that would frighten the horses. Like adding hops.



I like the image, though in reality I don't find that London Pride bears any resemblance to Doom Bar in terms of colour or flavour; the only similarity perhaps being that it is ubiquitous in pubs where the licensee has no afinity for real ale and therefore doesn't have much idea of how to keep it and serve it well.





Those are two beers that still fully deserve the name "bitter". Too many beers I come across nowadays have nothing bitter about them apart from the name on the pump clip. To the extent that I was afraid the problem lay with my ageing taste buds, until drinking again the two beers mentioned by Aqualung. I miss Boddingtons and Tetleys, two extremely bitter beers from the past. The latest version of Tetleys is sweet rather than bitter, in my experience.
Stop reacting badly.

[london calling]

Thanks Mick. I know your BBB references are more often than not tongue in cheek, though that knowledge doesn't necessarily stop them getting under my skin!

Two of the blandest pale beers in my experience are Thwaites Wainwright, now just known as Wainwright, a nationally available brand named after a famous son of Blackburn (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Wainwright), and the locally popular Bradfield Farmers Blonde. Always referred to by me and my Sheffield mates as Farmers Bland, this beer is the most popular choice in the Kelham Island Tavern. Boring Bland Beer indeed.
I am sure I have read Farmers blonde is the best selling beer in Sheffield. Takes all kinds.

[london calling]

Yes, so thanks for asking!

Glad to see someone come out of the closet.

[oldboots]

... the locally popular Bradfield Farmers Blonde. Always referred to by me and my Sheffield mates as Farmers Bland, this beer is the most popular choice in the Kelham Island Tavern. Boring Bland Beer indeed.

I've never had a Bradfield beer I liked, dire is the word, their Belgian Blue is one of the most vile beers I've ever had.

[Aqualung]

My son lives in Sunbury where there are 2 possibly 3 Breakspears pubs and the pint of bitter I drank about a year ago would fit in the lowest category.


Brakspear was a revered brewer back in the 70s and early 80s. All their tied houses were within about 15 miles of the brewery so there certainly weren't any in Sunbury. They were all in South Oxfordshire, Berkshire, South Bucks and just one in Hampshire. Many of them were unspoilt rural pubs.

[sheffield hatter]

I react badly to the use of the term "boring brown beer"


Stop reacting badly.

Great advice! Thanks John.

[Wittenden]

I had a couple of Holt's bitters this week and quite enjoyed them. It is brown but has a good bitterness. The price tag of £2.96 was a lot higher than I expected!

On my sole visit to Manchester in the 1970s,the unanimous verdict on Holt's bitter is that it made grown men weep,being so bitter.Can't remember the colour though. Never seen it since.

The main problem with BBB seems to be when they are the token real ale in a disinterested pub:a tired pint of Pride or Bombardier does cask no favours,especially as they are advertised prominently. I'm surprised that Bradfield attracts such opprobium: I came across their beer around 7 or 8 years ago, and remember waxing lyrical:perhaps things have changed for the worse.
Of the regional cask bitters seen in my part of Kent Adnams Southwold bitter stands up well;Sheps Master Brew comes across as harsh, and not a patch on its glory days before they changed the yeast and used hop pellets; Harveys SBB can be unimpeacheable and as good as it ever was, but is over exposed,and the last time I tried Young's Special-not recently-I found it cloyingly sweet. I tend to avoid most Marston's beer, with the exception of Jennings,along with GKIPA and Badger (mainly due to their ruin of King and Barnes.)
Having said all that, a well brewed, well served bitter is a thing of great joy,especially when one doesn't want to be challenged by one's drink.

[NickDavies]

I'm a bit confused by the term Boring Brown Bitter. Judging by some of the contributions above it seems to be a brown bitter that the drinker doesn't care for rather than a generic term based on the colour of the beer and that its traditional nature was to be scorned in the face of the straw coloured acid and the dark soupy gravy that is in vogue these days.

I assumed that BBB draws its opprobrium from ubiquity and that the great unwashed like it (actually they like lager) than anything to do with taste.

[Thuck Phat]

TT Landlord: I'm with OB, the elusive well kept pint is an absolute joy BBB or not.
Fullers ESB: Again, kept well this is excellent. Does its strength preclude it from BBB status?
Bass: Been very good since brewed by Marstons and closely resembles the drink which my formative years saw plenty of. Prefer it to the new and abysmally treated Pedigree. Both can be classed a BBBs.
I'd also add Everards Tiger which again, when kept well, is a very reliable session ale and easily defined as a BBB.

Struggle to find anything positive to say about Bombardier, GK IPA, Batemans, Lees, Holts, Robinsons, McMullens, Youngs (now), Sam Smiths, Spitfire (what have they done to it?) etc. Then again, there are plenty of non-BBB's which fall into this category.

As long as it's good (and agreeing with John about meat and poison), BBB or not, I'm happy to drink it.

[Pangolin]

Brakspear was a revered brewer back in the 70s and early 80s. All their tied houses were within about 15 miles of the brewery so there certainly weren't any in Sunbury. They were all in South Oxfordshire, Berkshire, South Bucks and just one in Hampshire. Many of them were unspoilt rural pubs.

I don't believe it was a tied house then but the Flower Pot (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/27805/) was supplied by Braks for many years and was the best source of it locally for a long time, being one of the few sources of Mild in the area for a long time. Since refurbishment as a boutique hotel, it is indeed now owned by the Brakspear pub company, as is the Phoenix along the road. I haven't checked out the condition of the beers there recently, but well looked after they are still quite pleasant even if not a patch on the Henley brews of 20 years ago.

[sheffield hatter]

On my sole visit to Manchester in the 1970s,the unanimous verdict on Holt's bitter is that it made grown men weep,being so bitter.Can't remember the colour though.

Tears of joy, of course. (Copper-coloured I would say.)


The main problem with BBB seems to be when they are the token real ale in a disinterested pub:a tired pint of Pride or Bombardier does cask no favours,especially as they are advertised prominently.

Having said all that, a well brewed, well served bitter is a thing of great joy,especially when one doesn't want to be challenged by one's drink.

Yes. This is why I avoid beers that I know will taste like pineapple or passion fruit.



I'm a bit confused by the term Boring Brown Bitter. Judging by some of the contributions above it seems to be a brown bitter that the drinker doesn't care for rather than a generic term based on the colour of the beer...

I agree with Nick.


TT Landlord: I'm with OB, the elusive well kept pint is an absolute joy BBB or not.
Fullers ESB: Again, kept well this is excellent. Does its strength preclude it from BBB status?
Bass: Been very good since brewed by Marstons and closely resembles the drink which my formative years saw plenty of. Prefer it to the new and abysmally treated Pedigree. Both can be classed as BBBs.
I'd also add Everards Tiger which again, when kept well, is a very reliable session ale and easily defined as a BBB.

Struggle to find anything positive to say about Bombardier, GK IPA, Batemans, Lees, Holts, Robinsons, McMullens, Youngs (now), Sam Smiths, Spitfire (what have they done to it?) etc. Then again, there are plenty of non-BBB's which fall into this category.

The words "well kept" keep on cropping up (though not necessarily in that order, as Eric Morecambe almost said), and this chimes with previous contributions to this thread about nationally available bland beers and the way they tend to appear as default real ale in places where not much real ale is drunk and hence not much enthusiasm for it from the licencee (and vice versa). A lot of the beers named as BBB (and not just by Charlie) are not even brown - unless you include copper- or amber-coloured as shades of brown.

[london calling]

I'm a bit confused by the term Boring Brown Bitter. Judging by some of the contributions above it seems to be a brown bitter that the drinker doesn't care for rather than a generic term based on the colour of the beer and that its traditional nature was to be scorned in the face of the straw coloured acid and the dark soupy gravy that is in vogue these days.

I assumed that BBB draws its opprobrium from ubiquity and that the great unwashed like it (actually they like lager) than anything to do with taste.
Brewers called the beer pale ale but the common term adopted by the customers was bitter.So all bitters are really pale ales hence the colour doesn't real matter.

[Tris39]

None of the first six beers meet the bbb rules.

Not even when 'brown' is substituted with 'bland'?

[NickDavies]

None of the first six beers meet the bbb rules.

Why? I am yet to divine what the rules are.

Would I be right in thinking that Pride joined the BBB list the other week by virtue of its change of ownership from a family concern to a multinational? I'm sure there are people who reckon it isn't the same already.

[Thuck Phat]

The words "well kept" keep on cropping up (though not necessarily in that order, as Eric Morecambe almost said), and this chimes with previous contributions to this thread about nationally available bland beers and the way they tend to appear as default real ale in places where not much real ale is drunk and hence not much enthusiasm for it from the licencee (and vice versa).

A very valid point.

"Struggle to find anything positive to say about Bombardier, GK IPA, Batemans, Lees, Holts, Robinsons, McMullens, Youngs (now), Sam Smiths, Spitfire (what have they done to it?) etc. " This is true whether well kept, kept well or not.

[Mobyduck]

Why? I am yet to divine what the rules are.

Would I be right in thinking that Pride joined the BBB list the other week by virtue of its change of ownership from a family concern to a multinational? I'm sure there are people who reckon it isn't the same already.

Pride was boring long before the other week.

[Aqualung]

Pride was boring long before the other week.

You're right there, I had loads of it when doing the Fullers 200 Passport over 25 years ago and it's put me off it for life. The trouble is that ESB gets a bit heavy handed when trying to chase round a long list of pubs.

[oldboots]

Why? I am yet to divine what the rules are.



very simple, they are beers that trendy (mainly young) drinkers who suffer from neo-phillia dislike because they

1. are drunk mainly by old men
2. are usually clear
3. do not contain New World hops (or very many hops in some brews)
4. are mainly long established from usually long established breweries (see neo-phillia)

easy :evilgrin:

[Tris39]

You're right there, I had loads of it when doing the Fullers 200 Passport over 25 years ago and it's put me off it for life. The trouble is that ESB gets a bit heavy handed when trying to chase round a long list of pubs.


Why? I am yet to divine what the rules are.

Would I be right in thinking that Pride joined the BBB list the other week by virtue of its change of ownership from a family concern to a multinational? I'm sure there are people who reckon it isn't the same already.

The first rule of Bland Club: You do not talk about Bland Club.

I don't remember having a problem with Pride over the years - for me it seems to be a more recent thing. I was in a pub this summer and two of my mates said they thought that the recipe had changed as the beer was seemingly now slightly lighter in colour so maybe they are right. I really can't drink the stuff any more though for some reason it tastes better than average at https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubreviews/23595/. It certainly has more depth of flavour than Fuller's Swing Low which presumably relates to the reduced alcohol content.

[sheffield hatter]

The first rule of Bland Club: You do not talk about Bland Club.

Apologies for breaking the first rule.


I don't remember having a problem with Pride over the years - for me it seems to be a more recent thing. I was in a pub this summer and two of my mates said they thought that the recipe had changed as the beer was seemingly now slightly lighter in colour so maybe they are right. I really can't drink the stuff any more though for some reason it tastes better than average at https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubreviews/23595/. It certainly has more depth of flavour than Fuller's Swing Low which presumably relates to the reduced alcohol content.

This once more refers back to the theory that some of these bland and boring beers are that way because they are not well handled. The fact that they can travel vast distances and end up on the bar the same day as delivered (see my review here (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/52856/)) cannot be conducive to their being pleasant drinks.

Compare this with the attention to detail of a small brewery like the one mentioned in this review (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/34696/); though I'm pretty sure that Charlie, Mick and John would say that the beers I drank were all boring and brown, so I may have shot myself in the foot here.

[Mobyduck]

very simple, they are beers that trendy (mainly young) drinkers who suffer from neo-phillia dislike because they

1. are drunk mainly by old men
2. are usually clear
3. do not contain New World hops (or very many hops in some brews)
4. are mainly long established from usually long established breweries (see neo-phillia)

easy :evilgrin:

Haven't been called trendy or young for a while. :whistle:

[oldboots]

Haven't been called trendy or young for a while. :whistle:

I did say mainly young, do you suffer from neo-philla? If so you are trendy.

[Mobyduck]

Compare this with the attention to detail of a small brewery like the one mentioned in this review (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/34696/); though I'm pretty sure that Charlie, Mick and John would say that the beers I drank were all boring and brown, so I may have shot myself in the foot here.
Ugh.

[oldboots]

This once more refers back to the theory that some of these bland and boring beers are that way because they are not well handled. The fact that they can travel vast distances and end up on the bar the same day as delivered (see my review here (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/52856/)) cannot be conducive to their being pleasant drinks.

...

What happens in the supply chain can have a seriously detrimental effect on the beer, varying temperatures especially, which is why Pivovar (the owners of the Tap chain plus Pivni and the Market Cat in York) have invested in temperature controlled transport and storage. The large muck-miesters don't give a flying one about care during transport etc.

[Mobyduck]

I did say mainly young, do you suffer from neo-philla? If so you are trendy.

Hang on let me google that........................................
Thankfully no.

[Aqualung]

What happens in the supply chain can have a seriously detrimental effect on the beer, varying temperatures especially, which is why Pivovar (the owners of the Tap chain plus Pivni and the Market Cat in York) have invested in temperature controlled transport and storage. The large muck-miesters don't give a flying one about care during transport etc.

I had numerous rank pints in the heat of last summer and not just JDWs. I also found the beer too warm even in some regular haunts. I've seen beer being delivered by microbreweries and it's always been just a bog standard van.

[london calling]

Not even when 'brown' is substituted with 'bland'?
That's a given.

[london calling]

Why? I am yet to divine what the rules are.

Would I be right in thinking that Pride joined the BBB list the other week by virtue of its change of ownership from a family concern to a multinational? I'm sure there are people who reckon it isn't the same already.
Hi Nick the emphasis is on the Boring rather than brown or beers .None of the beers quoted are in the first category..This was and is a fun post not to be taken too seriously .cheers john

[london calling]

Apologies for breaking the first rule.



This once more refers back to the theory that some of these bland and boring beers are that way because they are not well handled. The fact that they can travel vast distances and end up on the bar the same day as delivered (see my review here (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/52856/)) cannot be conducive to their being pleasant drinks.

Compare this with the attention to detail of a small brewery like the one mentioned in this review (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/34696/); though I'm pretty sure that Charlie, Mick and John would say that the beers I drank were all boring and brown, so I may have shot myself in the foot here.
You said it-difficult to distinguish -a common trait with bbb,s

[london calling]

very simple, they are beers that trendy (mainly young) drinkers who suffer from neo-phillia dislike because they

1. are drunk mainly by old men
2. are usually clear
3. do not contain New World hops (or very many hops in some brews)
4. are mainly long established from usually long established breweries (see neo-phillia)

easy :evilgrin:

young trendies say
1-what is cask
2 -could you change this beer I think its off as its clear
3 don't know which hops are in this pint but its tasty
4 -new brewery you say sorry we like older traditional breweries so 2 pints of punk ipa and a pint of elvis juice

[london calling]

Apologies for breaking the first rule.



This once more refers back to the theory that some of these bland and boring beers are that way because they are not well handled. The fact that they can travel vast distances and end up on the bar the same day as delivered (see my review here (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/52856/)) cannot be conducive to their being pleasant drinks.

Compare this with the attention to detail of a small brewery like the one mentioned in this review (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/34696/); though I'm pretty sure that Charlie, Mick and John would say that the beers I drank were all boring and brown, so I may have shot myself in the foot here.
As far as I am aware Sharps with Doombar were the first cask brewer to start filtering their beer although Camra still calls it real ale.One of the reasons it has dominated the cask trade was that it was bright beer and you could put a keg on straight away rather than let it settle.Sharps were the first brewery to realise that if the beer was not ready the pub would put something else on and Doombar would not be sold from that pump for 3 days or how long it would take for a pump to be free.By selling bright beer any pub now changes Doombar for another Doombar.Great marketing makes brands leaders .

[Mobyduck]

Doombar.Great marketing makes brands leaders .
And in this example, crap beer, imo.

[Aqualung]

As far as I am aware Sharps with Doombar were the first cask brewer to start filtering their beer although Camra still calls it real ale.One of the reasons it has dominated the cask trade was that it was bright beer and you could put a keg on straight away rather than let it settle.Sharps were the first brewery to realise that if the beer was not ready the pub would put something else on and Doombar would not be sold from that pump for 3 days or how long it would take for a pump to be free.By selling bright beer any pub now changes Doombar for another Doombar.Great marketing makes brands leaders .

I was told by a cellar man that Wainwright is the same,

[oldboots]

I was told by a cellar man that Wainwright is the same,

Most of Marstons beers use fast cask yeast which settles very quickly, I'm told Marstons can be put on two hours after delivery. Of course, no secondary fermentation = not real ale.

[NickDavies]

Most of Marstons beers use fast cask yeast which settles very quickly, I'm told Marstons can be put on two hours after delivery. Of course, no secondary fermentation = not real ale.

Doesn't that mean short shelf life too? I always thought bright beer would be stale with 24 hours, blanket CO2 notwithstanding, whereas you should expect three or four days from live beer?

[Aqualung]

Most of Marstons beers use fast cask yeast which settles very quickly, I'm told Marstons can be put on two hours after delivery. Of course, no secondary fermentation = not real ale.

I was given a murky pint of Snecklifter a few years back and in the Cork JDW caught the end of a cask of Old Empire which was sludge.
Going back to Bass, before they ruined it the casks were very heavily dry hopped and did need a long time to settle. Brakspeaar casks were also heavily dry hopped.

[Wittenden]

Most of Marstons beers use fast cask yeast which settles very quickly, I'm told Marstons can be put on two hours after delivery. Of course, no secondary fermentation = not real ale.

Fast cask,ha! this is how it should be done:
The landlord had been told, when he first came to the pub, by a retired publican friend that, “The secret of keeping ale and beer was to order it in advance so that it can lay for two weeks before you tap it.”
Kent Pubs-D E Tubbs (Batsford 1966). Refering to the long closed Woodman's Arms,Hassel Street, Nr Bodsham,Kent.

[Tris39]

As far as I am aware Sharps with Doombar were the first cask brewer to start filtering their beer although Camra still calls it real ale.One of the reasons it has dominated the cask trade was that it was bright beer and you could put a keg on straight away rather than let it settle.Sharps were the first brewery to realise that if the beer was not ready the pub would put something else on and Doombar would not be sold from that pump for 3 days or how long it would take for a pump to be free.By selling bright beer any pub now changes Doombar for another Doombar.Great marketing makes brands leaders .

Thanks for the explanation which now makes perfect sense.

Perhaps CAMRA should stop classifying it as real ale - maybe we should list a pub as having no real ale if Doom Bar is the only option but only if there are no other pumps, rather than pumps with recently reversed clips?

[london calling]

The Bricklayers in Putney used to store the Timothy Taylor beers for a couple of weeks before serving.You need a big cellar though if you get through a lot of beer.Incidently they have started again to sell the full range of TT beers .

[london calling]

Thanks for the explanation which now makes perfect sense.

Perhaps CAMRA should stop classifying it as real ale - maybe we should list a pub as having no real ale if Doom Bar is the only option but only if there are no other pumps, rather than pumps with recently reversed clips?
To be honest most of the big brewers are doing this now.I get bottled Fullers beers and they are clear as a bell.No sediment but meant to be bottle conditioned

[Pangolin]

As far as I am aware Sharps with Doombar were the first cask brewer to start filtering their beer although Camra still calls it real ale.One of the reasons it has dominated the cask trade was that it was bright beer and you could put a keg on straight away rather than let it settle.Sharps were the first brewery to realise that if the beer was not ready the pub would put something else on and Doombar would not be sold from that pump for 3 days or how long it would take for a pump to be free.By selling bright beer any pub now changes Doombar for another Doombar.Great marketing makes brands leaders .

Nearly but not absolutely correct. While there is brewery conditioning, it is not absolute and a small amount of live yeast remains, so it is not totally 'bright'. (If there was a bright beer campaign, they would probably reject it!). Presumably this is enough to continue some secondary fermentation and prolong the life of the cask beyond that you would expect from a totally bright beer. CAMRA accepts that some filtering is acceptable - whether DB takes this too far is a whole other can of worms.

[Tris39]

Nearly but not absolutely correct. While there is brewery conditioning, it is not absolute and a small amount of live yeast remains, so it is not totally 'bright'. (If there was a bright beer campaign, they would probably reject it!). Presumably this is enough to continue some secondary fermentation and prolong the life of the cask beyond that you would expect from a totally bright beer. CAMRA accepts that some filtering is acceptable - whether DB takes this too far is a whole other can of worms.

I think I'd prefer to drink the can of worms...:rolleyes:

[Mobyduck]

I think I'd prefer to drink the can of worms...:rolleyes:

Can't disagree.

[Mobyduck]

A pint of Cloudwater Aw18 Bitter over the weekend was fantastic, If all Best Bitters were brewed to this standard there would be no such thing as BBB's, cask at its very best.

[AlanH]

On my sole visit to Manchester in the 1970s,the unanimous verdict on Holt's bitter is that it made grown men weep,being so bitter.Can't remember the colour though. Never seen it since.

With Holts Bitter, the only thing that made me weep is when I couldn't get any! Probably my overall favourite for 50 years. I now weep most of the time in Wales but I am delighted when one of my locals The Ponsonby Arms (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/52009/) gets it as a guest. On our recent crawl to Manchester, it was one of the best beers of the day in The Hare & Hounds (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/25976/).

Not in the same class as Holts Bitter, but I find the much criticised Sam Smiths Bitter very good in Chester in both The Falcon and Ye Olde Boot Inn. A good £2 well spent in both pubs. That is for a FULL pint in spite of "uncle Humphrey's" rules.

[Wittenden]

With Holts Bitter, the only thing that made me weep is when I couldn't get any!

the much criticised Sam Smiths Bitter

Never see Holts in the Southeast, and rarely Sam's, though more often than when in Yorkshire.Really enjoyed it in Durham in the 1970s in Colpitts Hotel (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/5511/) , and in a pub opposite the Tech in Framwellgate Moor. (Can't remember its name.)