Brewery ownership of pubs

[rpadam]

For those who haven't seen it, there is an interesting post about the Brewery ownership of pubs (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?28994-Shut-up-about-Barclay-Perkins-Brewery-ownership-of-pubs-1974-2017) in Ron Pattison's 'Shut Up about Barclay Perkins' blog today.

[Aqualung]

For those who haven't seen it, there is an interesting post about the Brewery ownership of pubs (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?28994-Shut-up-about-Barclay-Perkins-Brewery-ownership-of-pubs-1974-2017) in Ron Pattison's 'Shut Up about Barclay Perkins' blog today.

I've a feeling of Deja Vu about this as I'm sure I came across it somewhere else but I've no idea where. Heineken are largely a joke although there are a few notable exceptions, one in Beeston in our own list of top pubs. Greene King at least seem to be allowing some of their houses to become partial free houses. When they do this it seems to work pretty well. My Bete Noire is Marston's who seem to have sold off huge swathes of their smaller pubs (especially in North Wales) and seem quite happy to use one of the breweries under their umbrella in a totally inappropriate place. Jennings in Chorley or Penrith? They're having a giraffe. I don't recall the Black Country having a significant Marston's presence back in the day as it was all Banks's, Hanson's, M&B, Ansells.or if you were lucky the two good ones. Now former Banks's houses are badged as Marston's and I went to one last year where the only "beer" was Boddington's smooth crap. They do seem to have a few pubs doing several beers but I don't recall many (if any at all) selling anything other than their own beers.
In the days when the Cheshire Cheese off Fleet Street was the only pub selling Pedigree in London you could always go down to Winchester or the NE side of Southampton to find a Marston's pub but they seem to have flogged that lot off to GK.

[sheffield hatter]

Jennings in ... Penrith? They're having a giraffe.

Not sure that Jennings beers in Penrith would be a problem. A little bit out of their heartland (Keswick, Cockermouth, West Cumberland), but I have a note of a visit to the Agricultural Hotel there (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/6309/) on Christmas Eve 2004 drinking my accustomed Sneck Lifter; this was before the W&D takeover.

Are you by any chance confusing Penrith with Preston?

[sheffield hatter]

I'm a little surprised that Marstons have only (sorry, "only") 1,421 pubs compared with GK's 3,048 and Heineken's 2,836. In some places they can seem to be ubiquitous.

GK sometimes get credit with drinkers (and reviewers on this site; ok, and even with me) for their policy of guest beer offerings, but in fact these are mandated by the Beer Orders Act 1989 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beer_Orders), are they not?

On the other hand, Heineken seem to fly under the radar (https://www.siba.co.uk/2017/03/29/heineken-partners-with-siba-to-bring-local-cask-ales-to-its-pubs/) (at least, as far as I'm concerned). I cannot recall ever going, "Oh no, it's Star Pubs & Bars, let's go somewhere else." Have I missed a boycotting opportunity?

[london calling]

Interesting list of the brewers now.Thought Adnams -49 pubs were a lot bigger.Also Hydes 53 pubs I thought they own major swathes of pubs around Manchester.Very surprised that Felinfoel own so many pubs.Looking with my cynical eye I now realise how brewers like Batemans,Donnington etc have survived .They own loads of pubs who are tied to their imo tired beer.

[rpadam]

I'm a little surprised that Marstons have only (sorry, "only") 1,421 pubs compared with GK's 3,048 and Heineken's 2,836. In some places they can seem to be ubiquitous.
Yes, but increasingly less so in in parts of the Black Country, Welsh Borders and North Wales (as noted by Aqualung) with many smaller, wet-let pub being sold off.

According to the strategy on the Marston's corporate website, the company's top three priorities are:

1) Operating a high quality pub estate

We operate a pub estate that caters for a broad range of customers, with flexible operating models. As a consequence we ensure we have the right consumer offer, accompanied by the most appropriate operating model, to maximise sales and profits for each pub.

2) Targeting pub growth: investing in pub-restaurants and Premium pubs, further developing Franchise

The new-build programme remains our key growth driver. Our strategy has evolved to capitalise upon other opportunities for expansion where the returns create significant shareholder value

3) Increased investment in rooms

Accommodation acts as a complementary income stream to an existing pub making the total pub revenue more consistent and less dependent on weather. To enhance pub profitability we are expanding our rooms offer.

So, fewer, bigger 'premium' pubs and pub-restaurants, many with rooms (and all with rather dull beer sold under various brewery names that the uninitiated might wrongly suppose to be guest ales from other brewers...).

[rpadam]

GK sometimes get credit with drinkers (and reviewers on this site; ok, and even with me) for their policy of guest beer offerings, but in fact these are mandated by the Beer Orders Act 1989 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beer_Orders), are they not?
The Beer Orders were revoked in January 2003...

[sheffield hatter]

The Beer Orders were revoked in January 2003...

OK, more kudos to GK, then...

[rpadam]

On the other hand, Heineken seem to fly under the radar (https://www.siba.co.uk/2017/03/29/heineken-partners-with-siba-to-bring-local-cask-ales-to-its-pubs/) (at least, as far as I'm concerned). I cannot recall ever going, "Oh no, it's Star Pubs & Bars, let's go somewhere else." Have I missed a boycotting opportunity?
Do Star have any managed pubs? I find in almost impossible to know a Star outlet when I see what might be one, as they all appear to be unbranded and could be taken for free houses whereas they are (almost) all leased pubs owned by a pubco that just happens to be owned by a brewery.

[Aqualung]

Not sure that Jennings beers in Penrith would be a problem.

Jennings pubs back in the 1970s were restricted to their heartland of Keswick, Cockermouth and West Cumberland which you correctly identified. You wouldn't even find an outlet in the South Lakes. I don't know the history of that Agricultural in Penrith but they couldn't have taken it on in the 1970s. When I went to Keswick a few years ago to go to the JDW I didn't visit any Jennings Pubs whereas in the 1970s there wouldn't have been much else.

[Aqualung]

On the other hand, Heineken seem to fly under the radar (https://www.siba.co.uk/2017/03/29/heineken-partners-with-siba-to-bring-local-cask-ales-to-its-pubs/) (at least, as far as I'm concerned). I cannot recall ever going, "Oh no, it's Star Pubs & Bars, let's go somewhere else." Have I missed a boycotting opportunity?
I went to Nantwich last week and the first pub I went to was Heineken. It was a lot better than the previous reviews indicated from several years ago.
My nearest pub is owned by Heineken and is a total joke. It was originally an early JDW but they did it up this century to try and attract the Walthamstow Village set, clearly believing the lies perpetrated by Estate Agents as to where Walthamstow Village actually is.

[sheffield hatter]

When I went to Keswick a few years ago to go to the JDW I didn't visit any Jennings Pubs whereas in the 1970s there wouldn't have been much else.

The expansion of Jennings to other parts of Cumbria certainly pre-dated W&D/Marstons, but you are correct about Keswick. I have a Camra "Lakes Real Ale Guide" from the 1970s and the only real ale pubs listed by them in that town were Jennings pubs. These were the Central Hotel (possibly a former name for Inn on the Square (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/6254/)), Crown (closed) (http://www.closedpubs.co.uk/cumberland/keswick_crown.html), Bank Tavern (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/6227/), Black Lion (closed) (http://www.closedpubs.co.uk/cumberland/keswick_blacklion.html), Kings Arms Hotel (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/75008/), Lake Road Vaults (Robinsons) (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/6246/), Oddfellows Arms (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/6250/), Pack Horse (Robinsons) (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/6251/) and Twa Dogs (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/6263/) ("reputedly the best mild pub in area and certainly most glasses appeared to contain mild").

[Aqualung]

Interesting list of the brewers now.Thought Adnams -49 pubs were a lot bigger.Also Hydes 53 pubs I thought they own major swathes of pubs around Manchester.Very surprised that Felinfoel own so many pubs.Looking with my cynical eye I now realise how brewers like Batemans,Donnington etc have survived .They own loads of pubs who are tied to their imo tired beer.

I don't believe that Adnams were ever that bigger than around 50 pubs. They never really strayed that far from their Southwold base as their beers were popular enough to spread into the free trade and pub chains. I've never really rated Hydes beers and always thought they were the poor man of Manc brewers.
Donnington beers were always mainly restricted to their small tied estate in the Cotswolds but they do have some great rural pubs. Batemans seem to have retreated from the supermarkets and in my experience the free trade. They seem to have discontinued their low abv mild and according to the 2019 GBG the disgraceful watering down of the XXXB from 4.9% to 4.5% has been partially corrected to 4.8%.

[NickDavies]

Jennings pubs back in the 1970s were restricted to their heartland of Keswick, Cockermouth and West Cumberland which you correctly identified. You wouldn't even find an outlet in the South Lakes.

South Lakes was Hartley's land, the beer was far superior to Jennings. A tragedy when Robinson's bought them out and shut the brewery.

[sheffield hatter]

Batemans ... seem to have discontinued their low abv mild and according to the 2019 GBG the disgraceful watering down of the XXXB from 4.9% to 4.5% has been partially corrected to 4.8%.

I thought this beer was originally 4.8% and that is confirmed in this piece (https://protzonbeer.co.uk/features/2018/01/10/tears-and-cheers-at-batemans-as-xxxb-celebrates-40-glorious-years) by Roger Protz and this item (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-12588339) on the BBC news website.

But you're right about the demise of the low abv mild, unfortunately.

[Aqualung]

I thought this beer was originally 4.8% and that is confirmed in this piece (https://protzonbeer.co.uk/features/2018/01/10/tears-and-cheers-at-batemans-as-xxxb-celebrates-40-glorious-years) by Roger Protz and this item (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-12588339) on the BBC news website.

But you're right about the demise of the low abv mild, unfortunately.

The 1992 GBG lists XXXB as being 5.0%. I'm going by memory from when it was a JDW guest so may have got it wrong. A few months ago I noticed that Holden's cooking bitter was now advertised as being 3.9% while I had it down as 3.8%.

[Aqualung]

South Lakes was Hartley's land, the beer was far superior to Jennings. A tragedy when Robinson's bought them out and shut the brewery.

I've got a post lined up for the nostalgia thread that mentions Hartley's. I only tried it once and don't remember much about it. Jennings is another matter so I would have to side with them.

[rpadam]

The 1992 GBG lists XXXB as being 5.0%. I'm going by memory from when it was a JDW guest so may have got it wrong. A few months ago I noticed that Holden's cooking bitter was now advertised as being 3.9% while I had it down as 3.8%.
And don’t forget that the actual ABV may be 0.5% lower than stated, as came to light when Coors was ‘caught out’ routinely brewing the “4.0%” Carling at 3.7% instead (see Carling lager is 'weaker than advertised', firm says in court (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41059610)).

[Aqualung]

And don’t forget that the actual ABV may be 0.5% lower than stated, as came to light when Coors was ‘caught out’ routinely brewing the “4.0%” Carling at 3.7% instead (see Carling lager is 'weaker than advertised', firm says in court (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41059610)).

I knew that brewers were offered some leeway but assumed that was mainly directed at the small micros. This looks to me like a scam by a global abomination and just goes to show how little they care about their products.

[Mobyduck]

I knew that brewers were offered some leeway but assumed that was mainly directed at the small micros. This looks to me like a scam by a global abomination and just goes to show how little they care about their products.

Or end-line customers.

[oldboots]

And don’t forget that the actual ABV may be 0.5% lower than stated, as came to light when Coors was ‘caught out’ routinely brewing the “4.0%” Carling at 3.7% instead (see Carling lager is 'weaker than advertised', firm says in court (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41059610)).

Might save these boys from prosecution as a £1 pint at 3.5% ABV is a smidge under 50p per unit, more so if short measure can be "taken into consideration",

https://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/Article/2019/01/15/Scottish-pub-is-selling-Britain-s-cheapest-pint-for-just-1?utm_source=newsletter_daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=16-Jan-2019&c=8QfOHBqlSJ80rbEZ%2BcnChNP4lv6XtQv%2F&p2=

[trainman]

https://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/Article/2019/01/15/Scottish-pub-is-selling-Britain-s-cheapest-pint-for-just-1?utm_source=newsletter_daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=16-Jan-2019&c=8QfOHBqlSJ80rbEZ%2BcnChNP4lv6XtQv%2F&p2=

The minimum pricing in Scotland aims to save just 60(!) lives per year? Are they serious? Let people die happy for heavens sake and, for the rest, live a lot more happily!!