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bcfczuluarmy
01-01-2019, 13:31
Happy New Year etc

Had a query from my Dad regarding this former Wetherspoons. After Office Hours (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/14383/)

The Bat & Goldfish, Barnet (70 High Street, EN5 5SJ). Opened unknown. Closed unknown. It was not trading as a Wetherspoon in the period 1995 – 2002. Building continued as a pub with several name changes (Excalibar, Bar Ten, Buena Vista, Jug & Trumpet). Premises Licence issued to M&E Enterprises Ltd 17/06/05. Last traded as “After Office Hours” before closing in Jun 2011. Planning permission approved 06/07/17 (after several failed attempts) to demolish and rebuild the property as new drinking establishment and 7 self contained flats.

Anybody know it's period of operation from the locale as Google isn't old enough to give the info?

rpadam
01-01-2019, 17:29
Happy New Year etc

Had a query from my Dad regarding this former Wetherspoons. After Office Hours (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/14383/)

The Bat & Goldfish, Barnet (70 High Street, EN5 5SJ). Opened unknown. Closed unknown. It was not trading as a Wetherspoon in the period 1995 – 2002. Building continued as a pub with several name changes (Excalibar, Bar Ten, Buena Vista, Jug & Trumpet). Premises Licence issued to M&E Enterprises Ltd 17/06/05. Last traded as “After Office Hours” before closing in Jun 2011. Planning permission approved 06/07/17 (after several failed attempts) to demolish and rebuild the property as new drinking establishment and 7 self contained flats.

Anybody know it's period of operation from the locale as Google isn't old enough to give the info?
Question: was the Bat & Goldfish ever actually owned or operated by Tim Martin or Wetherspoon (acknowledging that it is listed on both the Wetherspoon Appreciation Society (https://wetherspoonappreciationsociety.wordpress.com/permanently-closed-pubs/) and John Adams (https://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ccaajpa/pubs-spoons.html) websites)?

In the Design & Access Statement for the 2015 planning application (https://publicaccess.barnet.gov.uk/online-applications/files/2ED8F0E8370E3BAC20E877D7C94C7091/pdf/15_04358_FUL-DESIGN___ACCESS_STATEMENT-3110675.pdf), it is stated under 'Planning History' (page 3, paragraph 2.1) that "in 1985 planning permission was granted for change of use of the ground floor from retail to restaurant."

This is substantiated by a mention on page 7 of the February 1986 edition of 'London Drinker' (http://westmiddx-camra.org.uk/LD/1986/LDvol8_1.pdf) where it is described as "the latest Masters pub converted from a shop" with two house beers: 'Liberty Ale' and 'Empire Ale'.

The reference to 'Liberty Ale' was corrected to 'Liberty Best Bitter' on page 10 of the March 1986 edition of 'London Drinker' (http://westmiddx-camra.org.uk/LD/1986/LDvol8_2.pdf).

However, I think Liberty Best Bitter and Empire Ale were house beers for Liberty Taverns / Liberty Inns run by Andrew Marler (who really started the shop-conversion idea) after Tim Martin leased several of the original Marler's Bars from him in 1979 and the early 1980s.

Bearing that in mind, the reference to "Masters" in the 1985 quote should surely read "Marlers" (but the two pub entrepreneurs had by then gone their separate ways)?

Whether that's the case or not, it was reported closed on page 10 of the August 1989 edition of 'London Drinker' (http://westmiddx-camra.org.uk/LD/1989/LDvol11_7.pdf) (although ownership is given as Inn Leisure at that time).

It is also not listed in the J.D. Wetherspoon Organisation (as the company was then known) advertisement on page 8 of the October 1989 edition of 'London Drinker' (http://westmiddx-camra.org.uk/LD/1989/LDvol11_9.pdf), but by then the company had already opened the nearby Moon under Water (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/14389/) (before later being sold and reopened as Misty Moons and now the Butchers Arms) at 148 High Street, so could this have caused / added to confusion?

PS - Coming full circle, Andrew Marler's Heritage Inns company took on Wetherspoon's former Cross Keys (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/14823/) in St Albans in 2012, although this enterprise only lasted a few months before closure.

bcfczuluarmy
01-01-2019, 17:50
Cheers for the response I'll send him the link so he can look at the detail you've provided which is appreciated.

I'd looked through the earlier planning applications and found nothing with a title that would give an obvious history of the building use over the closer time so didn't look at the later ones. Schoolboy error considering I have a planning degree.....

Aqualung
01-01-2019, 20:19
Following on from rpadam's unbelievably detailed post, I can confirm that this Marler geezer was originally in a partnership with Tim Martin but they broke up quite early on. Marler's Bar in Stoke Newington Church Street was one of the earliest Spoons and one that I went to although I can't remember anything about it apart from it having a good choice of cheap real ales.
One thing that people forget is that prior to the 1990s they were a small pub chain that was little known outside of North and East London. Probably their biggest upheaval was in the 1990s when they decided that all their outlets should sell food and a whole raft were closed because they couldn't do it.
The JDW website should have a lengthy history of the company rather than all that Brexit propaganda rubbish.

NickDavies
01-01-2019, 21:13
The JDW website should have a lengthy history of the company rather than all that Brexit propaganda rubbish.

One wonders if their museum in Wolves will contain any history or just loads of framed prints of Mullet Man's rants in his wretched mag.

Pangolin
01-01-2019, 21:57
Quote from 1987 CAMRA North London Beer Guide: "Owned by Andrew Marler's Liberty taverns just around the corner. This 1985 shop conversion was originally intended as a continental style café bar specializing in 'vegetarian food' and to be open all day." Shown at that time as the Bat & Goldfish and selling Liberty and Empire house beers amongst others. I don't believe that I ever visited it so can't comment on whether it was ever 'Spooned'.

london calling
04-01-2019, 21:58
Seeing the post by Rpadam and the mention of john Adams website I wondered if it was the same jp Adams who I had been conversing with the same night about London breweries.I emailed him and he said.

the Bat and Goldfish was a Marlers bar which was a group that pre-dated Wetherspoons but are generally considered to be Wetherspoons.I consider this to be a Wetherspoons even though it pre-dates the Muswell Hill opening. I incidentally its the 40th anniversary this December.

bcfczuluarmy
04-01-2019, 22:37
LC, details appreciated and thanks for going above and beyond. I've told my Dad there has been further details provided since Rpadam's initial response to this query.

Any idea on dates of operation?

london calling
06-01-2019, 21:13
Sorry but he has no accurate dates for the pub.