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sheffield hatter
24-10-2018, 16:41
I think there was a general consensus that it was about time the North got a summer crawl, so we need to decide whether it's the South in spring (we did Brighton in March 2018) or the Midlands.

And also what constitutes the South and what the Midlands. (Takes cover to avoid torrent of rotten tomatoes and long-past-sell-by-date broccoli.)

Just to get things started, have we ever considered Peterborough? Not sure whether it's south or midlands, but it's very well connected (very quick from London, pretty good from the north, not so good from the west) and has an interesting selection of pubs. On recent visits I've done these: Charters (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/54679/), Palmerston Arms (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/3077/), The Coalheavers Arms (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/3010/), The Woolpack (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/3147/), The Stoneworks (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/84287/), The Bumble Inn (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/84228/), and there's also The Ostrich (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/2992/), The Brewery Tap (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/55372/), Great Northern Hotel (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/69155/) (opinions vary about these three), and there's also a 'Spoons (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/56826/), for those who like that sort of thing.

A little further north on the same railway line, and unequivocally in the Midlands, is Newark, which I think has had mentions before on these threads but never quite made it through the polling process. It has the merit of being relatively easy to access for our southern-based friends and, for those who don't find the half mile walk from the station daunting, a fairly compact town centre. And a burgeoning real ale scene. Try these: The Prince Rupert (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/74665/), Just Beer (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/74151/), The Flying Circus (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/30715/), The Ram (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/30803/), The Fox & Crown (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/30724/), The Roaring Meg (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/30791/), The Organ Grinder (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/30733/), The Castle Barge (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/30708/), The Vaults (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/83067/), and of course a 'Spoons (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/56958/).

Discuss.

Mobyduck
24-10-2018, 17:20
I think there was a general consensus that it was about time the North got a summer crawl, so we need to decide whether it's the South in spring (we did Brighton in March 2018) or the Midlands.

And also what constitutes the South and what the Midlands. (Takes cover to avoid torrent of rotten tomatoes and long-past-sell-by-date broccoli.)

Just to get things started, have we ever considered Peterborough? Not sure whether it's south or midlands, but it's very well connected (very quick from London, pretty good from the north, not so good from the west) and has an interesting selection of pubs. On recent visits I've done these: Charters (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/54679/), Palmerston Arms (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/3077/), The Coalheavers Arms (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/3010/), The Woolpack (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/3147/), The Stoneworks (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/84287/), The Bumble Inn (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/84228/), and there's also The Ostrich (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/2992/), The Brewery Tap (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/55372/), Great Northern Hotel (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/69155/) (opinions vary about these three), and there's also a 'Spoons (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/56826/), for those who like that sort of thing.

A little further north on the same railway line, and unequivocally in the Midlands, is Newark, which I think has had mentions before on these threads but never quite made it through the polling process. It has the merit of being relatively easy to access for our southern-based friends and, for those who don't find the half mile walk from the station daunting, a fairly compact town centre. And a burgeoning real ale scene. Try these: The Prince Rupert (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/74665/), Just Beer (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/74151/), The Flying Circus (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/30715/), The Ram (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/30803/), The Fox & Crown (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/30724/), The Roaring Meg (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/30791/), The Organ Grinder (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/30733/), The Castle Barge (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/30708/), The Vaults (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/83067/), and of course a 'Spoons (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/56958/).

Discuss.

Peterborough is certainly Midlands, and a quick look at what the advanced train tickets would likely be for me barring any further price increase is around £42.00, 2 hrs 45 mins each way, so doable.
Without looking into it any further yet, It's a thought.

Mobyduck
24-10-2018, 18:20
A couple of thoughts for the next time we go South either Spring or summer, these are not dyed in the wool suggestions as in some cases others will know better than I.
Would there be enough beer diversity in Canterbury? Maybe JAQPTIO would know, I think Real Ale Ray and Fiona were there a couple of years ago .
Portsmouth/Southsea, , a lot of good looking trad pubs, and last time I was there about a year ago the beer scene seemed to be picking up.
Southampton, there are some good pubs and beer to be had but they all seem to be spread as far as possible apart from each other in most cases.
Salisbury, again nice town but lacking in beer variety IMO. Canterbury would interest me but could do with some local /recent knowledge to confirm its worth consideration.

Aqualung
24-10-2018, 18:27
I think there was a general consensus that it was about time the North got a summer crawl, so we need to decide whether it's the South in spring (we did Brighton in March 2018) or the Midlands.


As I recall nobody objexted to your suggestion. It makes sense as if the weather is hot in theory it won't be so bad up North.



And also what constitutes the South and what the Midlands. (Takes cover to avoid torrent of rotten tomatoes and long-past-sell-by-date broccoli.)

Just to get things started, have we ever considered Peterborough? Not sure whether it's south or midlands, but it's very well connected (very quick from London, pretty good from the north, not so good from the west) and has an interesting selection of pubs. On recent visits I've done these: Charters (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/54679/), Palmerston Arms (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/3077/), The Coalheavers Arms (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/3010/), The Woolpack (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/3147/), The Stoneworks (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/84287/), The Bumble Inn (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/84228/), and there's also The Ostrich (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/2992/), The Brewery Tap (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/55372/), Great Northern Hotel (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/69155/) (opinions vary about these three), and there's also a 'Spoons (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/56826/), for those who like that sort of thing.



It is the turn of the South and I would call Peterborough the Midlands but it's arguably a borderline case given that it's in Cambridgeshire. It's also got two Spoons but one is a Lloyds. I'd be prepared to accept it as a South venue plus one that may not be so obvious is Cardiff. There was some talk of Portsmouth in another thread so what about Southampton?


It looks like my post has crossed with Moby's!

Aqualung
24-10-2018, 18:40
Would there be enough beer diversity in Canterbury? Maybe JAQPTIO would know, I think Real Ale Ray and Fiona were there a couple of years ago .


I went there to do the Spoons and managed around half a dozen other venues. They were generally OK. I've only been to the JDW in Salisbury over the last few years. It's not good for travelling apart from London or the SW.

AlanH
24-10-2018, 19:37
As I recall nobody objexted to your suggestion. It makes sense as if the weather is hot in theory it won't be so bad up North.



It is the turn of the South and I would call Peterborough the Midlands but it's arguably a borderline case given that it's in Cambridgeshire. It's also got two Spoons but one is a Lloyds. I'd be prepared to accept it as a South venue plus one that may not be so obvious is Cardiff. There was some talk of Portsmouth in another thread so what about Southampton?

Cardiff is the only South venue I am likely to reach (so far). It is still half an hour quicker from London.
Someone in Wales has invented the wheel. That might improve things but I don't think it will work!

The Midland "beasts from the East" are probably out for me with four changes of horses and returning before 6pm

oldboots
24-10-2018, 19:38
It is the turn of the South and I would call Peterborough the Midlands but it's arguably a borderline case given that it's in Cambridgeshire.



Yes and probably no not borderline.




I'd be prepared to accept it (Peterborough) as a South venue plus one that may not be so obvious is Cardiff. There was some talk of Portsmouth in another thread so what about Southampton?


Peterborough is easy for most people as it's ECML, but I'd really consider it Midlands as it's roughly the same latitude as Birmingham (52½º N), Stamford is nice but not as easy to get to. Cardiff could be interesting and probably a whole lot better than Southampton where I believe these days the good pubs are on the outskirts but I stand to be corrected. Winchester might be a possibility and I like Salisbury even though it's "not as good as it used to be"; it isn't that hard to get to if you don't mind changing at Basingstoke (and maybe Reading as well if coming from the Midlands/North). Many decades since I went drinking in Pompey so I wouldn't mind re-acquainting myself with it. No idea about Canterbury or anywhere else in Kent for that matter, and Surrey and Sussex are a bit mysterious to me too. Also springing to mind are Bath, Lewes, Chichester, Cambridge (unless it's now wall to wall GK), I suppose the south-west is a bit far?

Is there anywhere just north of London worth thinking about? (Preferably on the ECML :D )

Aqualung
24-10-2018, 20:29
Is there anywhere just north of London worth thinking about? (Preferably on the ECML :D )

I can't think of anywhere. It's all commuter towns but it might be possible to join a few of them together. With a lot of these places the rail stations are a fair walk from the town centres.

There's probably a crawl to be done in the Camden part of London but it would be busy and probably expensive pubs.

There's also a crawl of SE London micropubs to be done but it's not really suitable for a PUG crawl and if the buses get caught up in traffic it could wreck it. It would also be better on a Saturday.

I'm swerving any arguments about where Peterborough is!

Aqualung
24-10-2018, 20:36
I suppose the south-west is a bit far?


I can't think of anywhere suitable for a PUG crawl. Exeter doesn't have much to offer nor does Taunton or Plymouth. If Newton Abbot was chosen then I would spend the whole day in the cider house! Anywhere in Cornwall is an epic journey even from London.

rpadam
24-10-2018, 20:57
Would there be enough beer diversity in Canterbury? Maybe JAQPTIO would know, I think Real Ale Ray and Fiona were there a couple of years ago.
Quite a few pubs in Canterbury, and mostly within a sensible walking distance from the East or West stations, but you might need to like Shepherd Neame and you won't find a wide choice in most other places apart from the two 'spoons. Good place as a base for a weekend break for its heritage and visiting the North / East Kent coast micropubs, but perhaps not for a full-day crawl.

Mobyduck
24-10-2018, 21:09
Quite a few pubs in Canterbury, and mostly within a sensible walking distance from the East or West stations, but you might need to like Shepherd Neame and you won't find a wide choice in most other places apart from the two 'spoons. Good place as a base for a weekend break for its heritage and visiting the North / East Kent coast micropubs, but perhaps not for a full-day crawl.

That's blown that Idea then, as I half suspected.:rolleyes:

Mobyduck
24-10-2018, 21:23
Is there anywhere just north of London worth thinking about?

Chelmsford any good?

Aqualung
24-10-2018, 21:40
Chelmsford any good?
I would have thought not as there are not enough good options but there certainly are some. Possibly Colchester might be a better option but it's a lot further and Colchester North is a long way from the town centre. I can't think of anywhere in Essex. The GBG entries are all spread amongst a wide range of towns and villages.

london calling
24-10-2018, 22:11
Tunbridge Wells has in the last 2 years become a great place for ticking and presumably pubs.Dont know how difficult it is to get to.
ragged trousers
pantiles tap
fuggles beer café
George
opera hse
sankeys
guinea
beer boutique
Bedford
duke of York
sussex arms
framptons
are all recommended on Scoopgen

london calling
24-10-2018, 22:24
Camden would be a good crawl if we extended it into Highgate.Loads of good pubs but maybe they have been done by too many pubgalorees already.

london calling
24-10-2018, 22:27
What about Birmingham.Surely some decent pubs there or not.

sheffield hatter
24-10-2018, 22:38
Peterborough is certainly Midlands



I would call Peterborough the Midlands but it's arguably a borderline case given that it's in Cambridgeshire.

#geography galore alert!


Yes and probably no not borderline.

Sitting on the fence can be pretty painful!


Peterborough is easy for most people as it's ECML, but I'd really consider it Midlands as it's roughly the same latitude as Birmingham (52½º N)

Peterborough is similar latitude to Birmingham, but there's an argument that the line between North and South (and therefore, by implication, where the Midlands lie) is not horizontal on the map. On the other hand, Peterborough is only a recent Cambridge acquisition - it used to be associated with Northamptonshire, which is clearly Midlands. Probably the answer is East, but as that has been determined to consist of Norwich and Moscow and other places that can't be reached, it can't, by definition, include Peterborough because that can be reached by the ECML.


Is there anywhere just north of London worth thinking about? (Preferably on the ECML :D )

Just north of London on the ECML? The choice is between Stevenage and Peterborough. :evilgrin:

Tunbridge Wells, anyone?

Aqualung
24-10-2018, 23:01
Tunbridge Wells, anyone?

Are there enough quality outlets? I don't really know but the JDW is one of the best. A big downside for everyone is a fairly rubbish and slow train service from Charing Cross

rpadam
25-10-2018, 00:07
Tunbridge Wells, anyone?
Are there enough quality outlets? I don't really know but the JDW is one of the best.
Fewer pubs than Canterbury, but probably a better bet for a Kent crawl.


A big downside for everyone is a fairly rubbish and slow train service from Charing Cross
Four trains per hour and about 55 minutes (or about nine minutes less from London Bridge if coming from Kings Cross, St Pancras or Euston) - not that poor?

Aqualung
25-10-2018, 09:34
Four trains per hour and about 55 minutes (or about nine minutes less from London Bridge if coming from Kings Cross, St Pancras or Euston) - not that poor?

That's more frequent than I thought but it is slow as it really isn't that far. Having said that just about everything South of the river apart from HS1 is slow.

Real Ale Ray
25-10-2018, 18:35
Mrs Ale here - loved Canterbury, but not that impressed with the pubs there, maybe as not keen on Shepherd Neame beers. The micro was very good though. Likewise Salisbury, not great for pubs either. Really liked Chelmsford, but that was a few years ago, so I imagine it's even better now.

Tunbridge Wells sounds good...

RealAleRobUK
25-10-2018, 19:17
Cambridge (unless it's now wall to wall GK)

I stayed in Cambridge last year and took myself on a little pub tour of about 9 pubs, only one of those being Greene King. A mix of traditional boozers, modern bars and serious real ale pubs. Happy to put a list together if anyone is interested. There were easily another couple I would have been tempted to visit, had time permitted, so am pretty sure you hardcore lot could make a day of it.

Tris39
25-10-2018, 19:56
Mrs Ale here - loved Canterbury, but not that impressed with the pubs there, maybe as not keen on Shepherd Neame beers. The micro was very good though. Likewise Salisbury, not great for pubs either. Really liked Chelmsford, but that was a few years ago, so I imagine it's even better now.

Tunbridge Wells sounds good...

But presumably Tunbridge Wells is also going to be Shepherd Neame groundhog day? However, when I briefly lived in Sevenoaks, my Kentish ex was saddened by the lack of Kentish ale so perhaps it's not wall-to-wall Sheps in Tunbridge Wells either; pretty too.

Tris39
25-10-2018, 20:03
Camden would be a good crawl if we extended it into Highgate.Loads of good pubs but maybe they have been done by too many pubgalorees already.

As you say, many of the area's pubs have been widely reviewed and those in Camden Town will be jammed with the predictable crowd on a Friday/Saturday night.

For a London crawl, how about central Hackney going west into central Islington?

Tris39
25-10-2018, 20:47
Yes and probably no not borderline.




Peterborough is easy for most people as it's ECML, but I'd really consider it Midlands as it's roughly the same latitude as Birmingham (52½º N), Stamford is nice but not as easy to get to. Cardiff could be interesting and probably a whole lot better than Southampton where I believe these days the good pubs are on the outskirts but I stand to be corrected. Winchester might be a possibility and I like Salisbury even though it's "not as good as it used to be"; it isn't that hard to get to if you don't mind changing at Basingstoke (and maybe Reading as well if coming from the Midlands/North). Many decades since I went drinking in Pompey so I wouldn't mind re-acquainting myself with it. No idea about Canterbury or anywhere else in Kent for that matter, and Surrey and Sussex are a bit mysterious to me too. Also springing to mind are Bath, Lewes, Chichester, Cambridge (unless it's now wall to wall GK), I suppose the south-west is a bit far?

Is there anywhere just north of London worth thinking about? (Preferably on the ECML :D )

Are naval cities good for pubs? Bath or Cambridge could be good and attractive too but Chichester has very few pubs; we'd pretty much have to do all of them. There's a lot of choice in Norwich but it's very far east.

Aqualung
25-10-2018, 20:49
For a London crawl, how about central Hackney going west into central Islington?

That one has been done being billed as a 38 bus crawl. I didn't go but if I remember rightly it started at Clapton and worked through Hackney then a 38 bus towards Islington.

Aqualung
25-10-2018, 21:25
We now seem to have 13 possibilities :-

Peterborough
Canterbury
Portsmouth
Southampton
Chelmsford
Cardiff
Bath
Lewes
Chichester
Cambridge
Tunbridge Wells
London
Winchester

Personally I don't think Chichester has enough, it was OK when it had Gales outlets and a K&B one. According to the History of Pug crawls London has had several visits. Winchester and Bath have also been done. If Peterborough is excluded for being in the Midlands then that is whittled down to 8, Canterbury, Portsmouth, Southampton, Chelmsford, Cardiff, Lewes, Cambridge and Tunbridge Wells which I believe is the correct number for a poll. Personally I'd rather see Peterborough included instead of Lewes which is largely Harvey's pubs and I believe most of the former Beard's pubs are GK.

As for dates Easter is late next year which would leave all weekends in March (I'm already booked for the first one) and the first two in April (first one nearly booked). I'm guessing that most people will want the Friday rather than Saturday.

Mobyduck
25-10-2018, 22:02
We now seem to have 13 possibilities :-

Peterborough
Canterbury
Portsmouth
Southampton
Chelmsford
Cardiff
Bath
Lewes
Chichester
Cambridge
Tunbridge Wells
London
Winchester

Personally I don't think Chichester has enough, it was OK when it had Gales outlets and a K&B one. According to the History of Pug crawls London has had several visits. Winchester and Bath have also been done. If Peterborough is excluded for being in the Midlands then that is whittled down to 8, Canterbury, Portsmouth, Southampton, Chelmsford, Cardiff, Lewes, Cambridge and Tunbridge Wells which I believe is the correct number for a poll. Personally I'd rather see Peterborough included instead of Lewes which is largely Harvey's pubs and I believe most of the former Beard's pubs are GK.

As for dates Easter is late next year which would leave all weekends in March (I'm already booked for the first one) and the first two in April (first one nearly booked). I'm guessing that most people will want the Friday rather than Saturday.

Probably a few non runners in that list, but lets get a poll together in the near future, Saturdays are always better for me ,not least in the travel cost as well as work pressure, but I think I'm in the minority there.

london calling
25-10-2018, 22:23
As you say, many of the area's pubs have been widely reviewed and those in Camden Town will be jammed with the predictable crowd on a Friday/Saturday night.

For a London crawl, how about central Hackney going west into central Islington?
We have kind of done that area..Could have a good crawl around Brentford and Hanwell.Micros.heritage pubs,multi tap pubs a new build and even a few gbg pubs thown in the mix.

london calling
25-10-2018, 22:29
Probably a few non runners in that list, but lets get a poll together in the near future, Saturdays are always better for me ,not least in the travel cost as well as work pressure, but I think I'm in the minority there.
minority of two

Aqualung
25-10-2018, 23:21
minority of two

Three as I prefer Saturday unless there is a Home football match in town!

oldboots
26-10-2018, 16:08
We now seem to have 13 possibilities :-

Peterborough
Canterbury
Portsmouth
Southampton
Chelmsford
Cardiff
Bath
Lewes
Chichester
Cambridge
Tunbridge Wells
London
Winchester

... London has had several visits. Winchester and Bath have also been done. ...

I don't recall Winchester or Bath, perhaps they were mini-crawls or it's just a bit more senility on my part, for the record I've listed what I have below. I believe a poll is limited to 10 items so we need to lose 3 (one of which I suggest would be Southampton, Bath and Winchester can be dropped if indeed they're "done" ).

Pubs Galore Crawls
Birmingham 12/11/2010
Nottingham 11/11/2011
Liverpool 02/03/2012
Leicester 22/03/2013
Reading 13/07/2013
Leeds 22/11/2013
Worcester 26/03/2014
Bristol 14/11/2014
Rugby 13/06/2014
St Albans 17/07/2015
York 27/03/2015
Derby 13/11/2015
Hull 18/03/2016
Oxford July 2016
Huddersfield 18/11/2016
London 38 Bus tour 25/03/2017
Wolverhampton - Shrewsbury by train 2017
Stockport 17/11/2017
Brighton 23/03/2018
Newcastle under Lyme 15/06/2018
Manchester 12/10/2018

Mini-Crawls and Splinter groups
*Black Country bus tour
*Otley
*Clapham
*Leytonstone
*Leeds 02/09/2011
*Wakefield 17/07/2015
*Winchester

Pubsignman
26-10-2018, 16:40
Winchester was a mini-crawl inasmuch as only four people participated - Quinno, Roger B and myself with Farway joining us for the first couple of pubs. I don't think this should rule it out from being included in the poll if people are interested in having it as an option.

Aqualung
26-10-2018, 17:16
I don't recall Winchester or Bath, perhaps they were mini-crawls.

I got them from the brief history thread and presumably they were both mini crawls.
I missed out Salisbury from the list so it's 14.
You're right about polls, the limit is 10 not 8 so we need to find four to drop from the list which is :-


Peterborough
Canterbury
Portsmouth
Southampton
Chelmsford
Cardiff
Bath
Lewes
Chichester
Cambridge
Tunbridge Wells
London
Winchester
Salisbury


My four to remove are London, Winchester, Salisbury and Bath.

Mobyduck
26-10-2018, 19:22
I got them from the brief history thread and presumably they were both mini crawls.
I missed out Salisbury from the list so it's 14.
You're right about polls, the limit is 10 not 8 so we need to find four to drop from the list which is :-


Peterborough
Canterbury
Portsmouth
Southampton
Chelmsford
Cardiff
Bath
Lewes
Chichester
Cambridge
Tunbridge Wells
London
Winchester
Salisbury


My four to remove are London, Winchester, Salisbury and Bath.

I would now ditch Canterbury,Salisbury, Lewes and Chichester, I don't think there's enough there.I have some concern over Southampton in that there's a lot of walking between many of the better pubs, though Its doable.

Tris39
26-10-2018, 20:18
I got them from the brief history thread and presumably they were both mini crawls.
I missed out Salisbury from the list so it's 14.
You're right about polls, the limit is 10 not 8 so we need to find four to drop from the list which is :-


Peterborough
Canterbury
Portsmouth
Southampton
Chelmsford
Cardiff
Bath
Lewes
Chichester
Cambridge
Tunbridge Wells
London
Winchester
Salisbury


My four to remove are London, Winchester, Salisbury and Bath.

My four to go: Portsmouth, Southampton, Peterborough and Salisbury.

Tris39
26-10-2018, 20:21
That one has been done being billed as a 38 bus crawl. I didn't go but if I remember rightly it started at Clapton and worked through Hackney then a 38 bus towards Islington.

Indeed. I went on this crawl and it was orientated north/south. I was envisaging something more east to west.

sheffield hatter
26-10-2018, 21:55
My four to remove are London, Winchester, Salisbury and Bath.


I would now ditch Canterbury,Salisbury, Lewes and Chichester, I don't think there's enough there.


My four to go: Portsmouth, Southampton, Peterborough and Salisbury.

What about a poll on which four to eliminate before we have a poll on which one of the remaining 10 we should go for? Salisbury would seem to be a shoo in for elimination. :evilgrin:

london calling
26-10-2018, 22:22
I would ditch Canterbury,Lewes,Salisbury and Chichester.

Aqualung
26-10-2018, 22:41
What about a poll on which four to eliminate before we have a poll on which one of the remaining 10 we should go for? Salisbury would seem to be a shoo in for elimination. :evilgrin:

It can't be done as the maximum for a poll is 10. Salisbury certainly looks doomed but other venues may follow. Salisbury was certainly a better place when Gibbs Mew and Eldridge Pope were still going.
Are you going to nominate four to remove?

bcfczuluarmy
27-10-2018, 00:06
No intention of attending but Salisbury does have some nice pubs. Can't comment on beer quality. Actually if Salisbury i may attend to finish the rest of the pubs I still need to do.

oldboots
27-10-2018, 08:50
What about a poll on which four to eliminate before we have a poll on which one of the remaining 10 we should go for? Salisbury would seem to be a shoo in for elimination. :evilgrin:

As we seem to be having the usual troubles we could run three polls, seven in each of two groups then the top five in each group go through to the Grand Final.

We could of course add another six venues and have two groups of ten then a final ten. I believe this kind of thing happens in sporting competitions quite often. :p


Oh dear, we'll have to go through this again for the date wont we?

Bucking Fastard
27-10-2018, 11:13
As we seem to be having the usual troubles we could run three polls, seven in each of two groups then the top five in each group go through to the Grand Final.



Could I suggest the top ten in terms of votes go through to the Grand Final to avoid the situation where most of the really popular venues all appear say in the first group of 7 ,eliminating a candidate that would have made it through if it had been placed in the second group of 7....if you get my drift.

Alternitavely why not run two polls and whichever venue polls the highest is the chosen one....no need for a Grand Final.

sheffield hatter
27-10-2018, 11:27
... if Salisbury i may attend to finish the rest of the pubs I still need to do.

I often go "off piste" on these crawls, but I've never determined to go off piste when the venue has still not been decided, never mind the pubs. I salute you, sir!

sheffield hatter
27-10-2018, 11:29
I believe this kind of thing happens in sporting competitions quite often.?

Should we be angling for bribes from the 14 towns?

Dave M
27-10-2018, 11:34
It is now possible to create a poll with 14 options if that would help

sheffield hatter
27-10-2018, 11:36
I think the general trend of the discussion has ignored what I wrote in the original post:


I think there was a general consensus that it was about time the North got a summer crawl, so we need to decide whether it's the South in spring (we did Brighton in March 2018) or the Midlands.

And also what constitutes the South and what the Midlands.

Just to get things started, have we ever considered Peterborough?

All the suggestions so far have been for towns in the south - my suggestion of Peterborough is in danger of being kicked into the long grass because it is perceived as being in the midlands. Just because we did Brighton in March this year, doesn't mean it has to be the south in spring next year - it could be the midlands. Or we could go for Peterborough without settling the argument as to whether it is south or midlands - just go for it! (My main reason for the suggestion was that it is relatively easy of access from many parts of the country.)

sheffield hatter
27-10-2018, 11:37
It is now possible to create a poll with 14 options if that would help

Spoilsport!

Mobyduck
27-10-2018, 11:52
It is now possible to create a poll with 14 options if that would help

I think so.

Mobyduck
27-10-2018, 11:55
I think the general trend of the discussion has ignored what I wrote in the original post:



All the suggestions so far have been for towns in the south - my suggestion of Peterborough is in danger of being kicked into the long grass because it is perceived as being in the midlands. Just because we did Brighton in March this year, doesn't mean it has to be the south in spring next year - it could be the midlands. Or we could go for Peterborough without settling the argument as to whether it is south or midlands - just go for it! (My main reason for the suggestion was that it is relatively easy of access from many parts of the country.)

If we did Peterborough it would still be the Midlands, It just means we would have a poll for 13 the next time for places in the South. :D

bcfczuluarmy
27-10-2018, 13:18
I often go "off piste" on these crawls, but I've never determined to go off piste when the venue has still not been decided, never mind the pubs. I salute you, sir!

I'd stay and do them the next day or after most have got trains home, I've done nearly all of the central ones it's the late openers and peripheral ones I need to do.

The idea of turning up saying hi and going yeah I've been all these pubs I'm off would be novel.

sheffield hatter
27-10-2018, 18:37
The idea of turning up saying hi and going yeah I've been all these pubs I'm off would be novel.

It would certainly give the rest of us something to talk about! :D

Pangolin
27-10-2018, 19:00
Curiously enough, I was in Salisbury last week (will shortly be adding reviews) and there was certainly enough beer variation for a crawl as well as good pubs, although quite possibly other places might be better and certainly more accessible. Of other places mentioned, Winchester is quite excellent, well served by rail and very walkable. Portsmouth is a safe bet with some great pubs but would need careful planning. Southampton has a few good ones near the centre but others are way out. Lewes is a personal favourite but you have to like Harveys. Never been very impressed by Tunbridge Wells. Cambridge and Bath are both excellent, but may have been done to death. Haven't drunk in Canterbury or Chelmsford for some time. It is perhaps a bit harsh to dismiss London as one place - could plot a good session round Surbiton and Kingston, for example. Other wildcards might include Guildford, Reading or St Albans.

And finally, speaking tentatively as a newcomer to the crawls, perhaps a strict regime of South/Midlands/North is not totally necessary, and occasional variations to include Wales, East Anglia or even Scotland might be acceptable. BUT: Peterborough is usually defined as East Midlands, occasionally as an extremity of East Anglia, but NEVER, ever as South!

Tris39
27-10-2018, 19:48
As we seem to be having the usual troubles we could run three polls, seven in each of two groups then the top five in each group go through to the Grand Final.

We could of course add another six venues and have two groups of ten then a final ten. I believe this kind of thing happens in sporting competitions quite often. :p


Oh dear, we'll have to go through this again for the date wont we?

And we thought Brexit was hard...:eek:

oldboots
27-10-2018, 21:04
And we thought Brexit was hard...:eek:

Does that mean the date should be the 29th March?

Aqualung
27-10-2018, 22:43
It is now possible to create a poll with 14 options if that would help

I think that would be a VERY good idea given the reluctance of some to nominate four to remove. I thought it was policy to give each part of the country a fair crack of the whip, so it is definitely the turn of the South. I'm happy to see the North as the Summer one but if this one is the Midlands then I can add a whole raft of possibilities. It would also mean that the South won't get a look in until the Autumn crawl making it an 18 month gap.

Aqualung
27-10-2018, 22:58
And finally, speaking tentatively as a newcomer to the crawls, perhaps a strict regime of South/Midlands/North is not totally necessary, and occasional variations to include Wales, East Anglia or even Scotland might be acceptable. BUT: Peterborough is usually defined as East Midlands, occasionally as an extremity of East Anglia, but NEVER, ever as South!

Wales only realistically has one credible option which is Cardiff which would be the South. An argument could be made for Swansea but it's probably just too far away. Scotland would be the North. Most of East Anglia would be regarded as the Midlands and we already have Chelmsford and Cambridge as options for the South. Peterborough is a commuter town for London and has been for years. It's less than an hour from the Cross so even if it is in the East Midlands (which it probably is!) it has a strong connection to the South. More importantly it has good links with other parts of the country.

rpadam
27-10-2018, 23:47
Peterborough is usually defined as East Midlands, occasionally as an extremity of East Anglia, but NEVER, ever as South!
Peterborough has an unusual history in term of local government, but to cut a very long story short it effectively migrated in stages from Northamptonshire to being a county in its own right, then a combined county with Huntingdonshire, then part of Cambridgeshire and now a unitary authority in the East of England region.

Bucking Fastard
29-10-2018, 12:31
I think the general trend of the discussion has ignored what I wrote in the original post:



All the suggestions so far have been for towns in the south - my suggestion of Peterborough is in danger of being kicked into the long grass because it is perceived as being in the midlands. Just because we did Brighton in March this year, doesn't mean it has to be the south in spring next year - it could be the midlands. Or we could go for Peterborough without settling the argument as to whether it is south or midlands - just go for it! (My main reason for the suggestion was that it is relatively easy of access from many parts of the country.)

But Peterborough is on the list of 14 ,so should we just go ahead with the poll and see who wins ?

Mobyduck
29-10-2018, 14:59
But Peterborough is on the list of 14 ,so should we just go ahead with the poll and see who wins ?

For me Peterborough is Midlands, are doing South or Midlands? I have no problem with Peterborough but it should be in a different (Midlands) grouping, should it win the poll as it stands it would be a default Midlands choice with no competition, if you see what I mean, I think I do. :confused:

Bucking Fastard
29-10-2018, 15:19
For me Peterborough is Midlands, are doing South or Midlands? I have no problem with Peterborough but it should be in a different (Midlands) grouping, should it win the poll as it stands it would be a default Midlands choice with no competition, if you see what I mean, I think I do. :confused:

OK on that basis Peterborough should be in the poll for the next Midlands crawl which will be at the back end of 2019.I agree that most of this threads discussion has been about Southern options so let focus on the 13 options already mentioned in the South.

Mobyduck
29-10-2018, 15:22
OK on that basis Peterborough should be in the poll for the next Midlands crawl which will be at the back end of 2019.I agree that most of this threads discussion has been about Southern options so let focus on the 13 options already mentioned in the South.

Agreed, on my part.

Aqualung
29-10-2018, 23:02
OK on that basis Peterborough should be in the poll for the next Midlands crawl which will be at the back end of 2019.I agree that most of this threads discussion has been about Southern options so let focus on the 13 options already mentioned in the South.
OK, but why is this a problem? Those who think that Peterborough is in the Midlands probably won't vote for it. I would be happy to see another venue substituted for it and my suggestion would be Worthing.

sheffield hatter
30-10-2018, 09:42
Those who think that Peterborough is in the Midlands probably won't vote for it.

Yes, but those of us who think it's a southern option should be given a chance to vote for it!

Mobyduck
30-10-2018, 09:59
Yes, but those of us who think it's a southern option should be given a chance to vote for it!

But thats only you Will!: :D

sheffield hatter
30-10-2018, 12:18
But thats only you Will!: :D

...as far as you know.

Tris39
30-10-2018, 17:46
Yes, but those of us who think it's a southern option should be given a chance to vote for it!

I think that Peterborough, being in Cambridgeshire (East of England) formerly Northamptonshire (resolutely Midlands) shouldn't be considered as being in the South. Maybe we should pigeonhole it into the Midlands slot. OR...we could do an East of England crawl.

:confused:

oldboots
30-10-2018, 18:41
OR...we could do an East of England crawl.

:confused:


Norwich was done in 2012 which leaves Ipswich (not very good?) and Cambridge (on the list), unless we include Essex as East Anglia too; Chelmsford is on the list.

Are we going for a poll soon (with or without the Midlands/East Anglian town of Peterborough)?



Tempting as it is just to pick a likely town, there were a few moans about people from one part of the country having to travel long distances so we went for the north-south-midlands rotation.

Aqualung
30-10-2018, 19:49
Yes, but those of us who think it's a southern option should be given a chance to vote for it!

I'm prepared to take it as a Southern town as it has been a London commuter town for over thirty years. If people don't approve they can avoid voting for it. I've got two places earmarked and Peterborough isn't one of them!

Aqualung
30-10-2018, 19:53
We could do an East of England crawl.

:confused:

By that logic we should add Wales, SW England, NE England and Scotland as options. I don't think that would go down well.

rpadam
30-10-2018, 23:28
Norwich was done in 2012 which leaves Ipswich (not very good?) and Cambridge (on the list), unless we include Essex as East Anglia too; Chelmsford is on the list.
Ipswich may be OK, although I had a particularly dodgy couple of hours there on Saturday...

sheffield hatter
31-10-2018, 09:20
Norwich was done in 2012

... by a group consisting of three members, prompted by PaulOfHorsham who bought a train ticket and said "anyone else fancy it?" - see this thread (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?9770-Norwich) for details. It's not classed as an "official" PuG crawl. I think Norwich has previously figured in a poll but didn't garner many votes. It's a great city for beer but it's hard to get to.

Mobyduck
31-10-2018, 09:33
... by a group consisting of three members, prompted by PaulOfHorsham who bought a train ticket and said "anyone else fancy it?" - see this thread (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?9770-Norwich) for details. It's not classed as an "official" PuG crawl. I think Norwich has previously figured in a poll but didn't garner many votes. It's a great city for beer but it's hard to get to.

The same as Winchester, only done with four members. Norwich interests me, but as will says, a pig to get to for most.

Aqualung
31-10-2018, 11:44
The same as Winchester, only done with four members. Norwich interests me, but as will says, a pig to get to for most.
It's also a large sprawling city with promising looking pubs spread all over the place. There also seems to be quite a tangled web of buses. In recent years, I think I've only been to one non Spoons and didn't think much of that.

The trains at Norwich use stock that is so ancient you could be excused for thinking it was a heritage line.

oldboots
31-10-2018, 12:22
The trains at Norwich use stock that is so ancient you could be excused for thinking it was a heritage line.

I guess we'll be getting them in the "Northern Powerhouse" some time soon then :D

sheffield hatter
31-10-2018, 12:26
It's also a large sprawling city with promising looking pubs spread all over the place. There also seems to be quite a tangled web of buses. In recent years, I think I've only been to one non Spoons and didn't think much of that.

The trains at Norwich use stock that is so ancient you could be excused for thinking it was a heritage line.

I was in Norwich in February for the Camra winter ales beer festival at St Andrews Church. On my second day I did a 10 pub crawl (no reviews as yet because I've only just rediscovered my notebook, which I had mislaid):
The Jubilee (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/28522/)
Frank's Bar (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/66599/)
Woolpack Yard (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/28734/)
Kings Head (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/28536/)
Lord Rosebery (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/28559/)
The Duke of Wellington (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/28516/)
The Plasterers Arms (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/28599/)
The Ribs Of Beef (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/28629/)
The Murderers (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/28488/)
The Rose Inn (https://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/28637/)

Probably rather more walking than you'd be happy to do, I admit. Also there are several pretty decent pubs that I didn't do on this circuit but which would probably feature on a "must visit" list for Norwich, and a tighter circuit could be produced, I should think.

Norwich is inescapably out on a limb transport-wise, though I don't recall the vintage carriages you mention...

aleandhearty
31-10-2018, 16:28
I guess we'll be getting them in the "Northern Powerhouse" some time soon then :D

:eek: Please don't give that numpty Grayling any ideas!

Al Bundy
31-10-2018, 16:37
I guess we'll be getting them in the "Northern Powerhouse" some time soon then :D

We did get our brand new 30 year old trains a couple of years ago so we are a bit spoilt.

Aqualung
31-10-2018, 16:57
Norwich is inescapably out on a limb transport-wise, though I don't recall the vintage carriages you mention...

I'll answer this in the Train Company thread as it's more appropriate.

Aqualung
01-11-2018, 09:36
I'm not arguing against Cambridge being included but I was surprised to see that it's roughly level with Northampton. When I go there I get a train from Tottenham Hale a couple of miles away so it seems local.

rpadam
01-11-2018, 22:01
The trains at Norwich use stock that is so ancient you could be excused for thinking it was a heritage line.
True, but you can usually get cheap advance fares...

Bucking Fastard
02-11-2018, 11:10
I feel we should move on to a poll,and Dave has kindly expanded the poll options to 14.

Post #34 lists 14 options,and if Peterborough is set aside that's down to 13.

However both Worthing and Norwich have come up as ideas since then,which makes 15.Do the supporters of either wish to withdraw so that we can move to a poll of 14 from which to choose the Southern crawl winner ?

Mobyduck
02-11-2018, 11:21
I feel we should move on to a poll,and Dave has kindly expanded the poll options to 14.

Post #34 lists 14 options,and if Peterborough is set aside that's down to 13.

However both Worthing and Norwich have come up as ideas since then,which makes 15.Do the supporters of either wish to withdraw so that we can move to a poll of 14 from which to choose the Southern crawl winner ?

Personally I think Norwich should be saved for a Midlands poll, it is further North than both Birmingham and Peterborough. :whistle:

oldboots
02-11-2018, 12:33
Personally I think Norwich should be saved for a Midlands poll, it is further North than both Birmingham and Peterborough. :whistle:

Unless we have an East Anglian crawl once every 2 years? :whistle:

Aqualung
02-11-2018, 12:52
Personally I think Norwich should be saved for a Midlands poll, it is further North than both Birmingham and Peterborough. :whistle:

I agree, Norwich is further North than Birmingham and even from London it's nearly a two hour journey. If it means that we can move forward then a poll of 13 will suit me.

Mobyduck
02-11-2018, 12:54
I agree, Norwich is further North than Birmingham and even from London it's nearly a two hour journey. If it means that we can move forward then a poll of 13 will suit me.

14 with Worthing .

sheffield hatter
02-11-2018, 19:10
Unless we have an East Anglian crawl once every 2 years? :whistle:

We could have a poll to choose between Peterborough, Cambridge, Norwich and Ipswich. Kings Lynn is a nice town.

sheffield hatter
02-11-2018, 19:13
Personally I think Norwich should be saved for a Midlands poll, it is further North than both Birmingham and Peterborough. :whistle:


I still say that removing Peterborough from the list for the southern poll is undemocratic and, what's more, ungeographical. :moremad:

#geographygalore


(There's a bit too much whistling going on around here, if you ask me.)

Mobyduck
02-11-2018, 19:31
I still say that removing Peterborough from the list for the southern poll is undemocratic and, what's more, ungeographical. :moremad:

#geographygalore


(There's a bit too much whistling going on around here, if you ask me.)

I have no idea what you're talking about. :whistle:,:D

Mobyduck
02-11-2018, 19:32
We could have a poll to choose between Peterborough, Cambridge, Norwich and Ipswich. Kings Lynn is a nice town.

Why not go for it.

oldboots
02-11-2018, 19:57
and, what's more, ungeographical. :moremad:




An interesting opinion given:

Birmingham Town Hall 52.479 North
Peterborough Guildhall 52.573 North

london calling
02-11-2018, 20:10
Can we have one vote for the place we would like to go or is it going to be multiple votes.

Mobyduck
02-11-2018, 20:14
Can we have one vote for the place we would like to go or is it going to be multiple votes.

It's normally multiple. As for what day however, Fri/Sat? :whistle: (more whistling).

sheffield hatter
02-11-2018, 20:26
Birmingham Town Hall 52.479 North
Peterborough Guildhall 52.573 North

I think I've already answered this point at post #17 (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?28567-Pubs-Galore-crawls-2019/page2). Geography isn't just about latitude and longitude, as I am sure you know. Peterborough (of which town I am by now heartily sick, but I'll persevere) has had an interesting and chequered political career, moving between the midlands and the east without ever quite making it to the south, though it is a commuter town for London. In my original post (http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?28567-Pubs-Galore-crawls-2019) in this thread I wrote, "Not sure whether it's south or midlands, but it's very well connected", but this has never been properly explored; it having been asserted, though never discussed or settled, that it was "the turn of the south" in spring. And Peterborough has been excluded from the poll on the basis that it is not in the south.

This is what I meant about being undemocratic. (Calling it ungeographical was tongue in cheek - couldn't find the right emoticon. Maybe this one: ;). Or this: :rolleyes:. Certainly not this: :whistle: )

It could have been interesting, though others may disagree, to do Peterborough (I hope never to have to type that name again) in the spring without settling whether it was south, midlands or east, and then decide (after the summer crawl in the north) whether to do south, midlands (or even east) in the autumn. However, this idea was obviously too subtle for a discussion venue such as this (that's not meant as a personal attack on anyone, just a reflection on the difficulty of discussing complex issues on a text forum rather than verbally) - it might have gone down better over a pint or two down the pub. Speaking of which...

Aqualung
02-11-2018, 20:36
I still say that Chesterfield is North!!!

Mobyduck
02-11-2018, 20:41
I still say that Chesterfield is North!!!

I think you're right, but anything above Camberley is North to me.

Aqualung
02-11-2018, 20:49
I think you're right, but anything above Camberley is North to me.

St Albans for me.

london calling
02-11-2018, 20:50
It's normally multiple. As for what day however, Fri/Sat? :whistle: (more whistling).
Does multiple votes not mess with the results.If everyones second choice is the same then we end up going to someplace nobody preferred.Would it not be better with one vote and the top three go into the final.Winner takes all.Unless its a southern town that's in the midlands.

Mobyduck
02-11-2018, 20:54
Does multiple votes not mess with the results.If everyones second choice is the same then we end up going to someplace nobody preferred.Would it not be better with one vote and the top three go into the final.Winner takes all.Unless its a southern town that's in the midlands.

Don't know all about that, but I do know that that place is in the Southern Midlands (no whistle).

rpadam
02-11-2018, 21:09
Don't know all about that, but I do know that that place is in the Southern Midlands (no whistle).
The Southern Midlands is in Tasmania!

Mobyduck
02-11-2018, 21:21
The Southern Midlands is in Tasmania!

I'm not sure advance tickets will help in this case then.

oldboots
02-11-2018, 21:38
.

stop digging

sheffield hatter
02-11-2018, 21:54
Does multiple votes not mess with the results.If everyones second choice is the same then we end up going to someplace nobody preferred.Would it not be better with one vote and the top three go into the final.Winner takes all.Unless its a southern town that's in the midlands.

As I understand it, each person can vote for as many places as they want, but only on one occasion; that is, you can't log back in and vote for your favourite ten million times. Each vote has equal value with anyone else's vote and there is no ranking of votes. So there's no counting of second or third choices, each of the votes is treated as being a first preference.

Aqualung
02-11-2018, 22:33
As I understand it, each person can vote for as many places as they want, but only on one occasion; that is, you can't log back in and vote for your favourite ten million times. Each vote has equal value with anyone else's vote and there is no ranking of votes. So there's no counting of second or third choices, each of the votes is treated as being a first preference.

I make you right there and any other system would become far too complicated. It would be nice to see this resolved in time for advance tickets and cheap advance bookings at budget hotels if required. Advance rail tickets still seem to be all over the place as I can't book anything for January.

AlanH
03-11-2018, 01:33
I still say that Chesterfield is North!!!

If Newcastle O.T. to Chesterfield is the North, and Brighton to Peterboro' is the South, we have a very large "North & South!" and a very small Midlands squashed in the middle that doesn't even include Birmingham!

Conrad would now be sick of us talking about Geography!

Aqualung
03-11-2018, 08:36
Conrad would now be sick of us talking about Geography!

And not alone I don't doubt!

oldboots
03-11-2018, 08:57
If Newcastle O.T. to Chesterfield is the North, and Brighton to Peterboro' is the South, we have a very large "North & South!" and a very small Midlands squashed in the middle that doesn't even include Birmingham!

Conrad would now be sick of us talking about Geography!

Conversely I've heard Macclesfield (Cheshire) referred to as North Midlands and Oxford as South Midlands :confused:


How could anyone tire of Geography? :D

Mobyduck
03-11-2018, 09:02
could anyone tire of Geography? :D

Yes.

Tris39
03-11-2018, 19:15
Conversely I've heard Macclesfield (Cheshire) referred to as North Midlands and Oxford as South Midlands :confused:


How could anyone tire of Geography? :D

Though not infallible, I think the Wikipedia definition of what constitutes the Midlands is about as accurate as anyone's going to get: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Midlands:pray: