What's the source of Olde English and Welsh Pub names?

[Prince_Arthur]

Came across this link trying to connect astrology with old English pub names :-

pubastrology.com

A bit too Russell Grant for me but has anyone got a better explanation?

Preferably, the pubs have to be 1700's onwards.

:confused:

[Aqualung]

I've had a look at this and there seems to be a blurring together of Astronomy which is a valid science and Astrology which is a complete load of cobblers only kept alive by the need for printed newspapers and magazines to fill the odd half or whole page. The constellations were a way by which ancient astronomers described the night sky long before they had any understanding of where the stars actually were. The fake science of Astrology hijacked twelve of these for its own purposes. I suspect that names like the Bull and the Lamb have more to do with farming than the night sky.

[sheffield hatter]

I suspect that names like the Bull and the Lamb have more to do with farming than the night sky.

It works the other way, too. The constellations were named by people who were close to the soil, so were given names like Plough, Bull, Ram, etc.

[Prince_Arthur]

What's the story behind dolphin pubs in the Pennines and Derby?

:confused:

[Aqualung]

What's the story behind dolphin pubs in the Pennines and Derby?

:confused:

And I remember one off Holborn. It lives in the sea so could be a weird sort of chuckling fish and therefore linked to Pisces???

[Pubsignman]

What's the story behind dolphin pubs in the Pennines and Derby?

:confused:

There are a number of reasons why pubs are called 'Dolphin'. Pubs near the coast have traditionally used the name as dolphins were considered by seamen to be friendly creatures, so publicans equated this friendly animal with the friendly hospitality on offer in their pub. The navy also named many ships 'Dolphin', which in turn led to more pubs adopting the name in honour of these ships. For pubs further from the sea, the explanation is likely to be linked to the presence of a dolphin in the coat of arms of a local family or industry or else it is probably a reference to the Battle of Waterloo, as a number of pubs used the name 'Dolphin' (a corruption of the french word 'Dauphin') to mark Wellington's victory.

[Prince_Arthur]

What's the story behind the eagle and child - Aquila and Antinous?

[Prince_Arthur]

Eagle and Child - Aquila and Antinous

[Prince_Arthur]

Eagle and child

[Bucking Fastard]

There are a number of reasons why pubs are called 'Dolphin'. Pubs near the coast have traditionally used the name as dolphins were considered by seamen to be friendly creatures, so publicans equated this friendly animal with the friendly hospitality on offer in their pub. The navy also named many ships 'Dolphin', which in turn led to more pubs adopting the name in honour of these ships. For pubs further from the sea, the explanation is likely to be linked to the presence of a dolphin in the coat of arms of a local family or industry or else it is probably a reference to the Battle of Waterloo, as a number of pubs used the name 'Dolphin' (a corruption of the french word 'Dauphin') to mark Wellington's victory.

Very interesting,Brighton & Hove Albion's nickname used to be The Dolphins which may also be a coastal reference.

[Prince_Arthur]

Very interesting,Brighton & Hove Albion's nickname used to be The Dolphins which may also be a coastal reference.
Did they have any Star players?

[Prince_Arthur]

The Dolphin Inn or Brighton and Hove Albion?

Either way the beer and the team sank without trace.....

[Prince_Arthur]

Ursa Major. The Bear. The Plough

Or were there just a lot of bears around in the 1700's?

[Prince_Arthur]

Canis Major - Sirius the Dog Star

The greyhound

The black dog

Hare and hounds?

The Talbot?

[Prince_Arthur]

Red Lion. Leo

Bulls Head. Taurus

The Swan. Cygnus

The Golden Fleece. Aries

The Flying Horse. Pegasus

pubastrology.com

[oldboots]

The standard book on the subject is "A History of Signboards" by Jacob Larwood and John Camden Hotton, They give an heraldic source for The Dolphin (symbol of the Watermans Company) and also say it could be a corruption of Dauphin (French crown prince). Neither rings true for northern or Pennine counties. They also quote a tale of dolphins swimming up the Thames in the fifteenth century.

[Prince_Arthur]

Eagle and Child - Aquila and Antinous

A heavily disguised Gay Bar?!

The constellation was created by the Roman emperor Hadrian in 132. According to legend, Hadrian was told by an oracle that only the death of his most beloved person would save him from a great danger.

Antinous (pronounced ‘anti-no-us’) was the boy lover of the Roman Emperor Hadrian and hence is a real character, not a mythological one, although the story reads like fiction. Antinous was born c. AD 110 in the town of Bythinium (also called Claudiopolis), near present-day Bolu in north-western Turkey. At that time this area was a Roman province, and Hadrian is thought to have met Antinous during an official visit. Hadrian, the first openly gay Roman Emperor, was smitten by the boy and groomed him to become his constant companion.

Hadrian’s happiness did not last long, though. While on a trip up the Nile in AD 130, Antinous drowned near the present-day town of Mallawi in Egypt. Supposedly the oracle had predicted that the Emperor would be saved from danger by the sacrifice of the object he most loved, and Antinous realized that this description applied to him.

Whether the drowning was accident, suicide, or even ritual sacrifice, Hadrian was heartbroken by it. He founded a city called Antinoöpolis near the site of the drowning, declared Antinous a god, and commemorated him in the sky from stars south of Aquila, the Eagle, that had not previously been considered part of any constellation.

One interpretation could therefore be that Aquila the Eagle (representative of the Roman Empire) is a metaphor for Emperor Hadrian.

The constellation’s first known depiction was in 1536 on a celestial globe by the German mathematician and cartographer Caspar Vopel (1511–61); it was shown again in 1551 on a globe by Gerardus Mercator. Tycho Brahe listed it as a separate constellation in his star catalogue of 1602 and it remained widely accepted into the 19th century, when it was eventually remerged with Aquila.

[oldboots]

Eagle and child

Ursa Major. The Bear. The Plough

Or were there just a lot of bears around in the 1700's?

Well Larwood & Hotton point out the Eagle and Child is a symbol of the Stanley family who were Earls of Derby and big players in Northern England, similarly the Talbot is heraldic and aristocratic (Earls of Shrewsbury) and greyhounds / white harts are royal badges. A fair few pub signs were there to curry favour with the local gentry, aristocracy or the crown.

Yes there were a few bears around in the 1700's, mostly dancing or being baited, usually in or near a pub.

I think links to astrology/astronomy are a bit fanciful and of course mythology is often the source for the renaming of constellations from the original Arabic names.

[ETA]

Ursa Major. The Bear. The Plough

Or were there just a lot of bears around in the 1700's?

Bears - another reference to gay bars?

I'm more inclined to think The Plough has more agricultural origins, alongside The Harrow, Waggon, etc.

[Prince_Arthur]

I'm inclined to agree.....

[Prince_Arthur]

The Unicorn

Plenty around in the 1700's before they were hunted to extinction in Britain along with the Bears.....

pubastrology.com

[Aqualung]

The Unicorn

Plenty around in the 1700's before they were hunted to extinction in Britain along with the Bears.....

pubastrology.com

I've seen several Unicorns after drinking Old Tom.

[Mobyduck]

I've seen several Unicorns after drinking Old Tom.

You're a star. :whistle:

[Prince_Arthur]

Sagittarius - The Archer - Robin Hood

pubastrology.com