Review tips [Archive] - Pubs Galore Forums

Conrad

28-05-2010, 16:06

Just remembered I meant to do this today. I am thinking that above the review we have something about "see review tips" and when clicked on it a drops a list of tips on what improves a review. My starter for ten.

Mention what the pub serves: Real Ale, Food?
Did you notice any facilities/problems for access?
Was the pub friendly to children and/or pets?
If you are leaving a rating, please mention what added or lost the pub points?
Would you go back to the pub?
Was there a nice selection of decorative twigs?
If you are employed by the pub, please mention your interest.

What are peoples feelings on this, any improvements to phrasing and other suggestions?

Andy Ven

28-05-2010, 16:52

Pub reviews might also include:
The general ambience/welcome (or lack of)/volume that Motorhead is played on the juke box.
Open all day every day or just when the gaffer can be bothered?
Modern/contemporary/traditional/dilapidated.
Number and type of public rooms.
Cleanliness - of bar/toilets/barmaid's fingernails.
Beer garden/patio/yard/pavement.
Price guide
Access in terms of public transport/car parking/remoteness
Anything that makes the pub different from most other places
Oh, and does it serve the best Carling for miles around :)

One other tip: avoid using text-speak

Strongers

28-05-2010, 18:20

Chances of finding H-files.

Oggwyn Trench

28-05-2010, 18:31

Depth and Quality of Barmaids cleavage:whistle:

Conrad

28-05-2010, 18:39

Depth and Quality of Barmaids cleavage:whistle:
Isn't that under our impending photo tips section?

Strongers

28-05-2010, 19:20

Sky Sports, GAA, Setanta, ESPN etc. and amount of plasma/projector screens.

Andy Ven

29-05-2010, 08:15

Reminder to refrain from making libellous comments or defaming anyone's character

arwkrite

29-05-2010, 08:21

Reminder to refrain from making libellous comments or defaming anyone's character

Oh Well alright, but only if you really insist..:)

I have a few reams of second rate printer paper in the cupboard. I may run off a template and print some mystery drinker type questionnaires, then attach them to my long redundant management style ( leather bound and a holder for the ballpen ) clipboard. This will be far more obvious than my normal way of reviewing by scribbling notes in the margin of the Daily Mail Coffee Break pages. What was done by subterfuge will now have to be done by having a brass neck and bags of over confidence. One would have to introduce yourself to the management. Pub customers are far more eagle eyed than your average Tesco or Morrisons shopper, so soon mutterings about your behavior would reach the Boss's ears. A third degree may follow ( violence is optional at this point ) as to your motives and remember people tend to believe the worse of their fellow man.

Being allergic to bruises and pain I think I will leave the paper and clipboard where they are and retain the Daily Mail approach and the disguise of a manic eccentric who is harmless if left alone.Sorry Conrad you will just have to remain in the dark about whether children are catered for or are part of the catering produce.

PS I have only just realised The Rose and Crown , Bromyard has a bad outbreak of twigs in its internal decor.

Andy Ven

29-05-2010, 09:02

I have only just realised The Rose and Crown , Bromyard has a bad outbreak of twigs in its internal decor.

That's fine as a review comment - I don't think that twigs have ever taken offence, become violent or brought a libel case

trainman

29-05-2010, 09:38

I don't think that twigs have ever... become violent

I'm not sure about that - I've often heard say that things can be better than 'a poke in the eye with a sharp stick', so they obviously have a history of mischief which people still talk about...

Conrad

29-05-2010, 13:05

Reminder to refrain from making libellous comments or defaming anyone's character
Yeah, that was a bit of a fundamental one to miss out on, will add that one to the list.

Farway

29-05-2010, 14:19

Back to twigs & cleavage for a mo, whilst in the Earl of Chatham, Lostwithiel a week or so ago I noticed both. The twigs are all over the ceiling. As it grates with some I did mention it in my review, but not the cleavage

http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/4651/

Oh, and they do not sell mild either :whistle:

trainman

29-05-2010, 15:50

The twigs are all over the ceiling

And what happened to the 'pic to follow'? (as promised in the review)

Back to ... cleavage for a mo

And what happened to the pic to follow...?

Farway

29-05-2010, 16:17

And what happened to the 'pic to follow'? (as promised in the review)

Been a bit busy guv, but will attend to it now, but no cleavage, that will be my little memory of a great break in Cornwall ;)

PS, uploaded 4 pics, not t1ts though ;)

Oggwyn Trench

29-05-2010, 20:34

Should i mention airbricks and highest up the wall competions (copyright Blaster Bates)

Rex_Rattus

29-05-2010, 21:57

At the risk of trying to teach granny to suck eggs, I think you also need to ensure that you don't inadvertantly give the impression that the list of items needs to be covered for a review to be worthwhile. The fact is that hardly anyone is going to cover all those things, and if a reviewer covers a few, or even just one or two, of them then the review is still worth having. I think it should be presented as a list of the sort of things that someone reading the review might find helpful, and thus be a prompt for the reviewer who may have observed some of the items on the list in the pub they've visited.

Andy is quite right about libel and defamation of character. Add allegations of illegal activity as well. An allegation of illegal activity might not be libelous or defaming anyone's character, and even if such an allegation is true, the PuG site is most certainly not the place to make it!

gillhalfpint

31-05-2010, 23:25

Think it is tme for me to retire as I don't cover half the things in the lists. If on a crawl round an area the last pubs might end up with little more than what I enjoyed drinking.

Andy Ven

01-06-2010, 08:41

Think it is tme for me to retire as I don't cover half the things in the lists. If on a crawl round an area the last pubs might end up with little more than what I enjoyed drinking.

For example, just saying that this pub is the best pub in town, 10 stars, without declaring that you are the gaffer there, isn't much use to your average punter - it's is not a fair reflection and doesn't really give any clue as to why it's the best pub in town.

What you write is fine, Gill. I think that the gist of the thread is to give reviewers an idea of points that they could cover, rather than what they should/must include ...... and also what they should avoid saying so that Dave and Conrad don't end up with some hefty legal bills.

gillhalfpint

01-06-2010, 08:57

On reflection. I think it is so easy to report on the negative side of things rather than positive eg can't hear myself think for loud music/TV /squalling kids, or said kids running round or lying on the floor to be tripped over.

Have mentioned dartboard if noticed it, but very often these days there is a table set for diners in front of it. Like multi-roomed rather than single, although raised areas can make it more interesting than the pub barns.

Have got more ideas now to look for - thanks.

Andy Ven

01-06-2010, 09:32

Twigs and cleavages are not obligatory :)

Rex_Rattus

01-06-2010, 09:38

There you are Conrad - your initiative has already borne fruit. And I agree with every word Andy has said; what the tips need to convey is the sort of things that are worth covering, and not a check list of the things that need to be covered in a review (not that I imagine you ever intended it to be the latter).

Conrad

01-06-2010, 11:37

It has certainly been interesting asking about this. I think there is a need for providing tips, apart from anything for those actually trying to promote their pub who so often seem to miss the point. For me tips means something you can ignore but may improve your performance. I also think this needs to remain punchy so that people may read it. So for the latest pass how about :-

------------------------

Some tips that you may wish to include in your review:

Mention what the pub serves: Real Ale, Food?
Did you notice any facilities/problems for access?
Was the pub friendly to children and/or pets?
If you are leaving a rating, please mention what added or lost the pub points?
Would you go back to the pub?
If you are employed by the pub, please mention your interest.
Offensive or Pointless reviews will be removed.

Andy Ven

01-06-2010, 12:25

Offensive or Pointless reviews will be removed.
[/LIST]

PG doesn't have a button to allow someone (not just signed in members) to report a review for removal. Would it be worth building one in?

Conrad

01-06-2010, 12:37

You can report through the forum at the moment, but it is on my todo list and is one of the very close to being done items.

Being honest I am not looking forward to it being instated however. We get enough idiot complaints without it :rolleyes:. Corker of recent times still goes to the landlord who had a mega strop because a picture was showing a "for sale" sign in it, the fact that you could find the pub still for sale elsewhere on the web just made it all the more insane.

Rex_Rattus

01-06-2010, 13:36

A good starter for ten Conrad. You could add:

Any special features that make the pub stand out?

I had thought about adding examples of the sorts of thing that might make a pub stand out (mahogany Victorian barback; bar billiards; conservatory complete with potted plants and dead twigs; ceiling mural depicting the Battle of Waterloo, etc) but I think it would detract from the "punchiness", and of course what makes a pub stand out can be all things to all men.

Conrad

01-06-2010, 13:46

Any special features that make the pub stand out?
Do you think changing the line 'Would you go back to the pub?' to 'Would you go back to the pub, what made it stand out?', would cover it?

Me trying to keep the line count down :), but I agree it is a good one.

hopwas

01-06-2010, 13:58

Perhaps you could include icon for whether pubs is flammable or not.. So I can check out before I enter the pub :whistle:

Conrad

01-06-2010, 14:04

I frequently find myself wondering how we can convince pubs to pay us to do the site.

You may be onto something here, pay us an annual subscription and we will mark your pub as flammable.

;)

oldboots

01-06-2010, 14:16

hopwas

01-06-2010, 14:19

I frequently find myself wondering how we can convince pubs to pay us to do the site.

You may be onto something here, pay us an annual subscription and we will mark your pub as flammable.

;)

:D

I haven't visited The Dubliner in Brum since fateful day in July 2006.. I don't want curse strikes twice.. ;)

Conrad

01-06-2010, 14:37

I hope you don't mean to start anything like this (about 1:45 in not the full frontal nudity bit at the start).

Michael Palin as Conrad and Terry Jones as Dave M possibly?

http://technorati.com/videos/youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv=DRm5WcjOikQ

Now look that is clearly a protection racket, I would never suggest anything like that.

All I am saying is that if you don't have a charged subscription to Pubs Galore we may send our marketeer Hoppy round for a quick drink at your pub to try and .... sell you a subscription, yes that is it - sell you a subscription.

;)

Andy Ven

01-06-2010, 17:11

To save on a word count what about a twig count, along the lines of the star ratings?
:twigs::twigs::twigs::twigs::twigs::twigs::twigs:: twigs::twigs::twigs:

Rex_Rattus

01-06-2010, 17:49

Do you think changing the line 'Would you go back to the pub?' to 'Would you go back to the pub, what made it stand out?', would cover it?

Me trying to keep the line count down :), but I agree it is a good one.
Fine - give it a try. I'm not sure that having a Victorian barback alone would induce me to go back, but it's just one of many little things that (usually) make one want to return. Suck it and see, I say.

Soup Dragon

01-06-2010, 19:18

To save on a word count what about a twig count, along the lines of the star ratings?
:twigs::twigs::twigs::twigs::twigs::twigs::twigs:: twigs::twigs::twigs:

Indeedy!

Further - why review every pub in an area - you could just review the one with the best Carling in it:twigs::twigs:

Andy Ven

01-06-2010, 20:37

Indeedy!

Further - why review every pub in an area - you could just review the one with the best Carling in it:twigs::twigs:

Seems like you're using that review as a stick to beat someone with......

Soup Dragon

01-06-2010, 20:40

Moi? - surely not

Andy Ven

01-06-2010, 20:49

Moi? :twigs:- surely not :twigs: :D

arwkrite

01-06-2010, 21:39

Perhaps you could include icon for whether pubs is flammable or not.. So I can check out before I enter the pub :whistle:

Hoppy , were you near The Lifford Curve, Stirchley the weekend http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-stories/2010/05/24/pub-in-stirchley-left-gutted-by-blaze-97319-26505574/

That appeared to be flammable. Sad, I visited it a few years ago.

hopwas

01-06-2010, 21:59

Hoppy , were you near The Lifford Curve, Stirchley the weekend http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-stories/2010/05/24/pub-in-stirchley-left-gutted-by-blaze-97319-26505574/

That appeared to be flammable. Sad, I visited it a few years ago.

:)

Not me sir.. I never even visited Stirchley pubs.

The Dubliner, Digbeth I visited two weeks before it was burned down..

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/76/198903128_1909d80174.jpg

Happily it has now reopened but I vowed not to return there again just in case lighting strikes twice...

Farway

02-06-2010, 13:53

Do you think changing the line 'Would you go back to the pub?' to 'Would you go back to the pub, what made it stand out?', would cover it?

Me trying to keep the line count down :), but I agree it is a good one.

One of mine in Lostwithiel I did put I would return, but only to see if I was mistaken first time round, not from "stand out appeal" :rolleyes:

Andy Ven

07-06-2010, 17:32

Isn't that under our impending photo tips section?

Can't see it here......

http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?748-A-friendly-note-about-pictures

Conrad

07-06-2010, 17:52

Blimey I had to trawl back to find out why I had said that.

We do actually give picture tips of course now you mention it. When you submit the picture we ask you to ensure it is yours, so should we add and have you made sure to include the bar maids cleavage in the photo.

On which note Dave is it time we approved the long outstanding unapproved picture now we are coming up on the World Cup? :whistle:, 6 years now, so it must have been from the Euro cup.

Dave M

07-06-2010, 18:17

On which note Dave is it time we approved the long outstanding unapproved picture now we are coming up on the World Cup? :whistle:, 6 years now, so it must have been from the Euro cup.

Actually only 5 years, so I think it must've been for the Ashes.

It is in a town with about 25 pubs that really hasn't been covered at all yet, so maybe we should approve the photo just to pad things out a bit.

ROBCamra

08-06-2010, 08:48

Actually only 5 years, so I think it must've been for the Ashes.

It is in a town with about 25 pubs that really hasn't been covered at all yet, so maybe we should approve the photo just to pad things out a bit.

A town with 25 pubs that hasn't really been covered?

I can hear Soupy & RogerB opening the train timetables now. :p

Oh and Gill looking in the A - Z and preparing the caravan. :D

Conrad

08-06-2010, 10:59

It's a challenge certainly!

Nice try Dave, I am not going to start liking Cricket just because some nice looking young barmaid is photographed flashing her England Bra. There is a football excuse I am sure.

Andy Ven

08-06-2010, 11:03

Conrad

08-06-2010, 11:05

Grailhunter

08-06-2010, 12:04

Actually only 5 years, so I think it must've been for the Ashes.

It is in a town with about 25 pubs that really hasn't been covered at all yet.

A town with 25 pubs in that hasn't been covered yet !
I'm happy to help address this issue.
Can we have some clues as to where this is ?

Andy Ven

08-06-2010, 12:08

A town with 25 pubs in that hasn't been covered yet !
I'm happy to help address this issue.
Can we have some clues as to where this is ?

How very public spirited ..... :whistle:

Is it Twin Peaks?

Strongers

08-06-2010, 12:35

Bristol(s)?

Dave M

08-06-2010, 12:36

A town with 25 pubs that hasn't really been covered?

I can hear Soupy & RogerB opening the train timetables now. :p

Ah, it hasn't had a train station since 1962. That explains a lot!

A town with 25 pubs in that hasn't been covered yet !
I'm happy to help address this issue.
Can we have some clues as to where this is ?

Hmm, well geographically I think you are possibly the closest forum member to it and I happened to notice how empty it was when I was looking at the town on May 6th this year.

Is it Twin Peaks?

:D

hopwas

08-06-2010, 13:05

Just pm'd you to see if I am right... ;)

Dave M

08-06-2010, 13:12

Just pm'd you to see if I am right... ;)

Yeah, Hoppy has it worked out.

hopwas

08-06-2010, 13:14

Yeah, Hoppy has it worked out.

:)

Hooray!

Grailhunter

09-06-2010, 13:28

I think you are possibly the closest forum member to it and I happened to notice how empty it was when I was looking at the town on May 6th this year.
:D

OK got it I'm fairly sure. 26 pubs listed on PG.
It's about 20 miles from where I live.

Dave M

09-06-2010, 13:38

Yes, that sounds like the one!

I dread to think how many of those are now closed! Although the local CAMRA branch does list 23 pubs there.

arwkrite

09-06-2010, 13:49

Trying to work out the location, by a very inefficient suck it and see method, I find a number of towns with or without rail connections that have very few reviews for their pubs. This lark is a bit like painting some bridge or other in Scotland.

Grailhunter

10-06-2010, 13:24

Yes, that sounds like the one!

I dread to think how many of those are now closed! Although the local CAMRA branch does list 23 pubs there.

I don't know the town that well but have been there a few times and most of the 26 pubs listed are still open I think.
I seem to remember being told a few years ago that the town was famous in the past for having more pubs for the size of the population than any other town in England. And it has a brewery there as well !

Farway

24-08-2010, 14:06

Added to the list. Wonder what made you think of that :whistle:.

Quite an important one really, so hopefully will soon be done, shouldn't be too hard to do.

No idea how it is done, but Trip Advisor has tips, which remain in window whilst adding review, just a thought

Conrad

24-08-2010, 14:20

No idea how it is done, but Trip Advisor has tips, which remain in window whilst adding review, just a thought
Never actually used it and not keen to sign up. If it is like the pop up that just abused me as I went in then I have considered it. The problem is whenever I try that they come out rubbish, something about me finds them impossible to design.

Also not sure if some would be bothered by perpetually showing them, there seemed to be a certain amount of offence in the thread that I was even suggesting there should be a way of doing reviews.

Strongers

24-08-2010, 18:12

I'm not keen on review guidelines as I think it will put people off commenting if they think they have to fulfill certain criteria for their comment to be accepted.

A comment of 'This place is wicked, full of fit burds and the music is banging' isn't an ideal review, but it's better than nothing and I'd hate to think someone didn't post as they thought the site was a bit up itself.

Conrad

24-08-2010, 19:39

Moved 3 posts to the original thread where they are probably better placed.

From our perspective the review guidelines are invaluable, if for no other reason than we can use them as a reference for when we have to delete or edit reviews.

Even if the guideline only says don't leave insults about people it would be a fairly good start in hopefully cutting some of our dross, and where it doesn't stop someone posting at least we can just delete it saying we asked you not to.

What prompted this today was a review that Andy kindly raised to us, in many respects it was fine and read ok with reasonably good English. However overall it was better off being a complaint to the pub, and started with the phrase 'The landlord of this pub is obviously a simpleton'. Anyone who thinks that is appropriate clearly needs guidelines.

Andy Ven

24-08-2010, 20:23

Maybe "Review Tips" is a gentler way of encouraging a good standard of reviews but people need to be aware that there are some things you avoid including in a review, to save Conrad and Dave a big legal bill for starters.

A 'Report' button would be useful for the more regular site users to help Conrad and Dave to monitor PG.

By the way, I don't remember seeing any controversial comments on the forum. Is this just down to the smaller 'community' with a common understanding?

Strongers

24-08-2010, 21:10

Conrad

24-08-2010, 21:32

I feel a little like we are going round in circles on this one, I started with tips and it felt like some weren't happy that we might be suggesting their reviewing skills weren't up to scratch (although this may have been more in jest).

We will probably call it tips,
It will probably be an obscure link, that expands to a small list of tips.
It will not be driven down anyone's throat

And truthfully will make little difference to how we run things, we will still delete largely based on whether the person is contributing to the site, or as you correctly point out trying to create a legal bill for us. When we do delete though we will at least be able to point out that there was something there that made it obvious you might be deleted.

Report button is going to have to be available to everyone, again this helps us avoid litigation (or successful litigation anyway), if we give every chance to report dodgy reviews it makes us a little whiter. Where the community could turn into a great help is reviewing the reports and filtering genuine ones (at least that is how I see it in my head).

Forum is moderated, we regularly just delete members who join from China, a little racist, but if they will choose the username 'nice new Nikes' or 'cheapest drugz' I am afraid they turn me against them quickly ;), some still get through, I think it was Strongers who got to report 3 at about 1 in the morning recently.

Also one of the multiposters from BITE has tried to join 4 times so far I think, 2 id's were banned and 2 are in moderation, so he can post but we won't let them through if we think they are causing trouble (strangely he doesn't bother).It really isn't a chore moderating the forums, which is nice - it is the thing I hate most about the main site, if I could get rid of all the total tits who think we are the place to abuse landlords I would be happy to miss out on all the reviews of 'This place is wicked, full of fit burds and the music is banging' and to be thought of as completely up myself. Sadly I am guessing it doesn't work that way :rolleyes:

Conrad

24-08-2010, 21:35

From first hand experience I would say that most people follow the standard of reviews that are already present. If swearing and conflicts are allowed to fester more people of the same mentality are drawn in and good reviewers are turned to defend the site making a cesspit of vitriol that has little to do with the efforts of the pub and more to do with the forum used to vent such abuse.
The point for me is that you should have a reference point as to where a review might cross the line, even if it is just vague statement like 'a review should tell others about the pub'. You can then refer to that point when making a decision to moderate, this site is extremely transparent, if we delete a review an email is sent to the reviewer telling them their review is deleted and giving our reason for doing it.

Strongers

24-08-2010, 22:05

Is there not a legal and general practise statement that has to be ticked when first registering onto the site? I can't remember, maybe that's the point that is being made!:muppet::o

Conrad

24-08-2010, 22:19

You have to agree to our terms and conditions, which do cover this. But as you say a gentle (and I do mean gentle) reminder is a good idea and a key driver for this. Also being honest, I think reviewing tips are actually useful, I certainly know I have learnt a lot about reviewing by listening to some of the reviewers I respect.

Strongers

24-08-2010, 23:03

Blimey yeah, my reviews aren't the most interesting, but when I first started four years ago they were rubbish. I'm still jealous of the writing skills of many on here and I wish I could put my observations across so eloquently and not have to use Word (as I am now) to check my spelling.

And, there’s nothing wrong with gentle reminders, I get them all the time when dining at the inlaws.

arwkrite

25-08-2010, 11:43

You are not alone Strongers. The spell check button on my Google toolbar is the most used facility on my computer but the odd howler still gets past.

Some here can write brilliant reviews that are informative, witty and worthy of entry in national publications. Mine on the other hand resemble the instructions on how to assemble a Korean made barbecue.

Has anyone ever sat alone in a pub and , staring despairingly about them, thought "What on earth can I write about this place ? ". The barmaid is uncommunicative, the pub dog sits in front of you licking his privates and the cat has a bad case of mange. The beer is barely drinkable and the crisps are soft and fusty while yesterdays paper lies on one of the tables. A clock, hung on dun coloured walls loudly ticks away the seconds to Armageddon.
Have you then had a second thought such as " I wish I had gone down the road to that other pub. Some one reviewed it as being a wicked place ,full of fit birds and the music is banging" ? By now Rover has stopped his self abuse and is looking expectantly at you. Unsure of what is expected of you the decision is made to bail out fast and make for the fit birds.
Some times these short reviews can be better than nowt.

Farway

25-08-2010, 15:45

Some times these short reviews can be better than nowt.

Agree entirely, anything short, polite & to the point is better than nothing, and certainly better than a long vitriolic diatribe

Like many others I am sometimes in awe of some reviews and have tried to expand mine, I can never compete with building designs etc, but do tend to try & be positive, but private part licking dogs do give review problems

Conrad

25-08-2010, 15:56

I am definitely in favour of the positive reviews (as I have constantly said), rather a positive review that keeps a pub open, than a negative that gets a pub closed. Having said that though, there are clearly some places beyond rescue, particularly when you feel that if they just had a decent bit of care they would be a good pub, I would just rather that if someone has to leave a negative review they left a positive one to show us what sort of pub they think we should be visiting.

I may have to consider that as a tip/guideline/(fortune cookie) actually.