Real Ale & Interest In Pubs: The Link

[HTM69]

Unless any lager-lovers suddenly decide to crawl out of the woodwork, I have long been under the impression that the majority of us here are all real ale aficionados. I have often wondered if there is a link between those who drink ale and those who have a genuine love and affection for the public house. And I think there is. You see, as ale drinkers, we have to take a little more care in our drinking surroundings. Despite a seeming increase in the number of outlets selling cask-conditioned beers, as enthusiasts, I feel we take a little more note and care in deciding where we drink. It seems to me that with interesting beer selections comes more interesting pubs. We tend to visit a wider selection of establishment to satisfy our love and as a result, we start to pay more of an interest in the hostelry we happen to be supping in. With lager drinkers – and this is the prime reason as to why they seems less interested in where they choose to drink – they get the same everywhere. As a result, there is a lessened chance of them seeking out pubs other than the handful they would usually socialise in. We ale-drinkers like variety. And with enjoying a variety of ales, comes enjoying a variety of pubs.

Am I on the right track, here?

[Conrad]

I do think there are also foodies, although not so much on here.

Like your theory though, makes a lot of sense to me.

[Farway]

I think there is also a generational aspect to this as well, older drink ale, younger drink keg / lager / alcho pops etc. Thus pubs tend to cater for their target audience, which often includes the foodies Conrad mentioned

Foodies & ale fans will not normally tolerate loutish behaviour, poor service and the like, thus the more interesting or unusual pubs mostly have publicans who have similar tastes & low tolerance of chavviness

The opposite is true of drinking parlours catering for yoof element, as their bread is buttered on the other side to ours

However, it does depend where you live I guess, if only a choice of two pubs in a town then it is Hobson's choice for the most part. My local town is an example of this

[Crossste]

Agree 100%, especially on the variety. Well said that man.

Different traditional real ale in different traditional pubs.

[oldboots]

I have often wondered if there is a link between those who drink ale and those who have a genuine love and affection for the public house. And I think there is. You see, as ale drinkers, we have to take a little more care in our drinking surroundings. Despite a seeming increase in the number of outlets selling cask-conditioned beers, as enthusiasts, I feel we take a little more note and care in deciding where we drink. ......We tend to visit a wider selection of establishment to satisfy our love and as a result, we start to pay more of an interest in the hostelry we happen to be supping in........
Am I on the right track, here?

Yes I would agree that in general people who are real ale drinkers will care about the kind of pubs they use, they will probably care about the kind of food they eat as well (real sausages, real bread, free range eggs etc). And yes some of us real ale drinkers do tend to seek out different pubs although many will drink constantly in the same pub especially if the beer range changes, after all why go elsewhere when you can combine the best of a local with adventures in beer tasting?


It seems to me that with interesting beer selections comes more interesting pubs.
There may be a chicken and egg situation here, good ale is quite often sold in the more unspoilt and older styled pub, which is my prefered type of drinking place - my personal view is that pub design peaked in the 1890s and that it was poor but interesting before and all downhill afterwards with the odd Art Deco gem. BUT for every Philharmonic or Black Friars there's somewhere like the Bree Louise. We used to say "the best beer was sold in the grottyest pubs" and I find it's still true to some extent, mainly in that the posher or more food oriented places have mediocre beer.


With lager drinkers – and this is the prime reason as to why they seems less interested in where they choose to drink – they get the same everywhere. As a result, there is a lessened chance of them seeking out pubs other than the handful they would usually socialise in. We ale-drinkers like variety. And with enjoying a variety of ales, comes enjoying a variety of pubs.

The appeal is exactly that - consistancy - "they", meaning most drinkers, like a beer that always tastes the same, because the beer is of secondary importance to them as long as it tastes ok and contains alcohol, they will use a pub for a range of reasons, they like the atmosphere, their friends all use it, etc etc etc. ROBCamra and I were recently accosted in a very fine ale house by a git who couldn't understand the concept of having a choice of beers. Not all ale drinkers like variety either I know of people who always drink the same real ale - sometimes it's even John Smiths Cask. When I was a lad I spend most of my drinking time in the same pub and almost always drank the same beer, this was the 70s of course and I didn't have the choice or transport I have now. A lot of people will think it strange that there are people who constantly use different pubs, "why can't you find one you like and stick to it?"



I think there is also a generational aspect to this as well, older drink ale, younger drink keg / lager / alcho pops etc. Thus pubs tend to cater for their target audience, which often includes the foodies Conrad mentioned

Foodies & ale fans will not normally tolerate loutish behaviour, poor service and the like, thus the more interesting or unusual pubs mostly have publicans who have similar tastes & low tolerance of chavviness

The opposite is true of drinking parlours catering for yoof element, as their bread is buttered on the other side to ours

However, it does depend where you live I guess, if only a choice of two pubs in a town then it is Hobson's choice for the most part. My local town is an example of this

Real ale makes up about 10% of the beer market I believe, so I don't think it's generational although you may be able to make some generalisations about Real Ale drinkers,


they will be mostly male
they will be of all ages but younger people will drink a range that includes real ale, older real ale drinkers tend to stick more to ale with the occasional wine and the odd spirit rather than mix and match. However I know some real ale drinkers do drink nothing else.
they are more likely to be middle class


Most middle aged and older men I know drink lager or smooth, but very few younger men drink smooth. The choice of pub/club/bar is generational, when you're twenty-something your requirements are a bit different to when you're forty or fifty something. I think that fashion and peer group conformity play a big part as well. One of the sad things of the last 20 years is that a lot of younger people don't want to mix with anyone outside their own age group and so get very parochial and narrow minded - the old man's pub syndrome. Pubs are a business and have to chase the punter's pound so they have to offer what the public will buy, hence target audiences which I think is not part of the pub ethos of "open to all".

The death of the pub or otherwise has been a topic on a number of blogs recently, Pencil & Spoon (http://pencilandspoon.blogspot.com/2010/05/rip-pub.html), Tandleman (http://tandlemanbeerblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/pub-evolving-and-relevant.html), Pub Curmudgeon (http://pubcurmudgeon.blogspot.com/2010/05/realm-of-misbehaviour.html) and Cooking Lager (http://cookinglager.blogspot.com/2010/05/british-pub-will-live.html) all make interesting comments, including that provocative supermarket lager drinking tosser.

[gillhalfpint]

I love my real ale, but also love looking round the pubs I go to. I am not as eloquent as some on here, and have written up a few Cornish pubs tonight and followed someone who is a very prolific - think thats right - writer, and I enjoy reading such reviews.

I got hold of a map of Cornwall and highlighted all the places with Good Beer Guide pubs, then marked the ones I hadn't been to before. I know some of them will only have Sharps, Skinners, St Austell or a combination of the three, but I get to some lovely locations, and rarely find a place with no bus available - apart from Blisland which has to be done by car.

I know some folk who stick with a particular beer, one always goes to the one pub as it serves Landlord for example, but I love variety in both pubs and beer. When asked what my favourite beer is, I have to say I'm still looking, and enjoying the process!

[Oggwyn Trench]

I think you have to remember as well that back when i started drinking back in the early 80s , real ale was pretty thin on the ground , all we had round here was the appalling Wem Ales and the odd pub serving Bass or Tetley so searching out pubs that served decent beer became part of the culture for us , regular trips into the wilds of Shropshire are still fondly remembered , discovering Hook Norton Beers at the fantastic George and Dragon in Much Wenlock and the Home brews at the Fox and Hounds at Stotessdon(sadly missed) and Three Tuns at Bishops Castle may not sound that exiting today but back then it was wonderfull

[Rex_Rattus]

An interesting debate you've started here, HTM. I pretty well agree with what everyone has said, and I think what has come over loud and clear is that the vast majority (if not all) the forum contributors are real ale drinkers. There is a balance to be struck between good pubs and good ale. We want both of course, and in London anyway (which is the only place whose pubs I know well, if at all) there are many places where we can have both. But I will go to places where I can have one but not the other - using the two Louises as an example, you wouldn't go to the beer canteen that is the Bree Louise for a traditional pub experience, and I certainly don't go to the Princess Louise for the ale choice or quality. And I do like going to different pubs just to see what they're like, as I wouldn't want to confine myself to just one or two - because I can indulge myself in this way in London, although I realise that some others don't have the opportunity. I believe that there are lots of us who think the way I do.

Another thing I've noticed is that the number of reviews is heavily balanced in favour of real pubs. Any number of times I've searched an area to reveal a couple of dozen drinking establishments, and noticed that over half are still virgins, but looking closer I've seen that all the Red Lions, Nag's Heads and White Harts have been reviewed, but that all the virgins are Zongo's Bar, Natalie's Bar and Grill and other ridiculously named characterless high street bars. So, I think HTM is spot on when he says that good pubs and good ale generally do go together, and that is exactly what the users of this site seem to be interested in.

[Andy Ven]

Maybe we become more discerning with age. Oggwyn referred to the availability of real ale in the 80s. It seems to have a far greater presence now even compared to 2 years ago and in tandem with that, CAMRA membership has not only beaten their target of 100,000 members it has smashed it with about 140,000 members nationally now.

I don't think that the phenomenon is limited to traditional pubs either. There are a lot of modern, contemporary bars selling a decent choice of real ale and not forgetting JD Wetherspoon responding to and promoting its popular appeal. It's a good thing in my opinion and I hope it helps the long-suffering pub trade. I hope that it keeps going and that it's not just a flash in the pan.

Death to the smooth pours!

[Conrad]

RR's mention of the other sort of pub does put me in mind of Sports bars that you can go to and watch whilst enjoying(?) a lager. An effort that will become popular over the Summer I am sure.

I agree that the reviewers of the site are heavily RA biased. I do wonder if some of the random viewers are looking for this sort of information though, that point I should add is more to do with me trying to think of revenue ideas for the site.

[arwkrite]

A fascinating thread. I suppose I could recite what features my favourite pub would have but then think of a totally different pub which I have enjoyed immensely.
Is it all about what a pub serves, looks like or its position ? I have visited pubs that look great an a secondnd serve good beer but have never felt tempted to revisit.
I would say that we are all a gregarious lot and that that is a very important point for us. A empty pub , however good the beer , lacks atmosphere which can help even a second rate pub go down. I hate empty pubs even when I want a solitary drink. Its nice to have people around.

As an aside I got plastered in the eighties at the Three Tuns , Bishops Castle. I mixed in with a group of well spoken, well dressed chaps who turned out to be pilots for a well known national airline. None of us needed wings to fly home that night.

[Delboy20]

Unless any lager-lovers suddenly decide to crawl out of the woodwork, I have long been under the impression that the majority of us here are all real ale aficionados. I have often wondered if there is a link between those who drink ale and those who have a genuine love and affection for the public house. And I think there is. You see, as ale drinkers, we have to take a little more care in our drinking surroundings. Despite a seeming increase in the number of outlets selling cask-conditioned beers, as enthusiasts, I feel we take a little more note and care in deciding where we drink. It seems to me that with interesting beer selections comes more interesting pubs. We tend to visit a wider selection of establishment to satisfy our love and as a result, we start to pay more of an interest in the hostelry we happen to be supping in. With lager drinkers – and this is the prime reason as to why they seems less interested in where they choose to drink – they get the same everywhere. As a result, there is a lessened chance of them seeking out pubs other than the handful they would usually socialise in. We ale-drinkers like variety. And with enjoying a variety of ales, comes enjoying a variety of pubs.

Am I on the right track, here?

Hi all,

I may as well crawl out of the woodwork and put my 2 pence worth in . I mainly drink lager and believe it or not I like lager !!
Having said that I also drink ale. Most of my sessions include at least one real ale - it all depends which pubs i go in.

As I have said before it is more about the pub than the beer for me. I love pubs and i want to go in every one I see. I suppose I started sticking to lager for consistency. After years of drinking in pubs near football grounds packed out with drunken football fans it seems much easier to shout for a Carling than to ask what ales they have on ! It is not easy to see the handpulls when you are three deep at the bar !!

The same applies to years of clubs and wine bars. Bottles of lager are just easier.

If i walk into a grotty little pub I couldn't walk out if they didn't have a selection of ales. I just have a pint of lager.

Not all lager drinkers are knuckle dragging yobs - just like not all real alers are middle aged men with beards !!

It is all about choice and I can only speak for myself. I drink lager and I am passionate about pubs of all varieties.

Cheers,

Del

[arwkrite]

It was so hot this evening the ale was heavy going. I had to order a pint of extra cold lager. That disappeared surprisingly quickly.:drinkup::drinkup::drinkup:So did the next two. I had a bender last night so thought it wise to go home early tonight.Something was running around my stomach with hobnail boots on.

[Conrad]

Are you just the exception that proves the rule though Del?

Have to admit to liking a Lager shandy for cooling down in this weather. So both lightweight and Lager, a double sin.

[Farway]

In my yoof I used to drink lager & lime. Oh the shame of it now :o , still a nice drink on hot day though

And during my Cornwall trip last week I often finished the night with a couple of Cornish Rattlers http://www.cornishrattler.co.uk/

[Quinno]

Revival of this old thread as I stumbled across it just now. In the intervening years we have added a new reviewer who likes craft beer (as well as real ale). Not quite a lager drinker but you get my drift ;)

Can't think of anyone else though!!

[Blackthorn]

I'm a cider drinker! That's not to say I don't ever have a real ale, I often do, but it tends to be at the end of the night when sometimes too many ciders can get a bit much. I don't think I've ever started out an evening on ale. Possibly it's just because it's the first pint I ever had at a school leaving do (in The Granary incidentally for those who know Bristol, which was a bit of a heavy metal club type venue. It's a Loch Fyne and trendy apartments these days), and partly I'm sure because we get fairly decent stuff in this neck of the woods. If I lived somewhere where the only thing I could get was Strongbow or Aspalls, I may well have gone down a different route. Even Blackthorn used to be made to a sweeter recipe for areas other than the South West.

And on top of that, I don't even like proper Scrumpy, give me a Thatcher's Gold or an Ashton Press and I'm happy! But when I have my odd ale, I do try different ones, and will generally try something local. There are a number of new micros that have sprung up around here recently, in fact I only came across the New Bristol Brewery in the last week.

But as I'm sure most people have realised, I do of course like trying different pubs, and like Gill says with her beer, I'd probably say I haven't found my favourite yet! Anything old and cosy generally fits the bill for me. I eat out quite a lot, so do sometimes try pubs based on food reputation, but fully appreciate that can be to the detriment of it's pubbiness and it isn't of interest to everyone.

[Quinno]

I'm a cider drinker!

:o

[Aqualung]

Revival of this old thread as I stumbled across it just now. In the intervening years we have added a new reviewer who likes craft beer (as well as real ale). Not quite a lager drinker but you get my drift ;)

Can't think of anyone else though!!

I've tried many Brodie's keg "craft" beers in the Leyton William IV and thoroughly enjoyed most of them especially in the hot weather. Since the prices went through the roof I don't even look at them (they were a blanket £3.30 which rose to £3.40).
At the Brodie's Easter Festival I tried the Elizabethan 22% beer on both cask and keg as it was the same price for a third of a pint and I thought they were identical.
It seems to me that most places that do "craft" keg just use it as an excuse to overcharge and what is this sour beer nonsense all about? I've had several tasters of these and they have all been absolutely rank. I've enjoyed Belgian fruit beers in the past but this stuff is terrible!

To me beer choice, quality and price is everything, but I don't like trendy places with for example loads of lit candles in full daylight (which obviously adds to the beer prices).

[bcfczuluarmy]

I'm lager all the way as Blackthorn knows until I stumble on the odd place that doesn't sell it e.g from memory Beerd (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/75903/) along with a few others so I order a real ale to cross the pub off the list of having a pint in every pub.

The odd thing was I was real ale when drinking underage in pubs, got smashed on 4 cans of Strongbow Super in 20 minutes and ended up in hospital when 14 so that knocked cider on the head as a drink of choice although I've had a few since especially with a slice as is the norm in some local pubs around Bristol.

Moving to Bristol and drinking cans in student house as a student put pay to real ale as it cost more than 4 cans off Hofmeister...:sick: By Christmas 1995 I was drinking lager in pubs for every pint rather than real ale.

As with others I prefer the experience of visiting a new pub over what drink to have in one, I'm sure landlords don't care what I drink when I turn up as long as I'm putting money in the till and keeping the place in business.

[Mobyduck]

Revival of this old thread as I stumbled across it just now. In the intervening years we have added a new reviewer who likes craft beer (as well as real ale). Not quite a lager drinker but you get my drift ;)

Can't think of anyone else though!!
I don't mind trying craft beer ,in fact I think it is a positive thing for Real Ale and new breweries, A much needed kick up the arse . What I don't like is the prices and rip off culture attached .

[london calling]

I would imagine that people who look for new pubs and probably like the tradition of pubs will have a few things in common. Drinking beer rather than lager is also traditional. Out of interest do you record the beers you drink in the pubs or is it pubs only.

[Quinno]

I would imagine that people who look for new pubs and probably like the tradition of pubs will have a few things in common. Drinking beer rather than lager is also traditional. Out of interest do you record the beers you drink in the pubs or is it pubs only.

Not in a scoopy way, tried it for a month but decided I had enough to do. But generally I submit beer scores and mostly I have the name of the beer (sometimes more accurate than others) attached. If I have something particularly lovely I make a point of remembering it - though my unusually good recall for images helps (though when a brewery re-brands it goes to pot!)

[london calling]

I don't mind trying craft beer ,in fact I think it is a positive thing for Real Ale and new breweries, A much needed kick up the arse . What I don't like is the prices and rip off culture attached .

I agree .T he rip-off element is harming the brewers and will not help sell beer.I am personally drinking less and less of it as the prices are randomly set.Most pubs work on a stupid percentage price that they apply to everything in the pub.The Lyric Soho had an Arbor 5.2 keg beer at £7 a pint and when I asked the manager to justify why he actually told me it was on sale at less than his normal mark-up.

[bcfczuluarmy]

Not sure who you are referring to with no quote and the over page bit. When I started OCDville my spreadsheet wasn't as advanced as it is now with hyperlinks back to here for pubs and pub pictures and incorporating kml Google Earth push pin production potential I probably should have added drinks drunk/available and price paid but that's really not going to happen as it would involve a massive revisit tour.

Pubs only is my quest when I've completed the ever expanding quest of every pub in a massive radius of Bristol the only real additions will be pubs when visiting somewhere new and added on a new tab so I can continue to quantify new pubs every year. I'm sure Real Ale is more OCD than lager.

I'd love it if I had a job that took me around the country again with petrol paid as I'd be in as many pubs as I could.

Regarding your Arbor point as a friend of Mr Comer whose business it is I may mention the mark up to him next time I see him...

[Aqualung]

I've never set up a Spread Sheet and I used to work in IT!
I don't keep permanent records of beers tried or pubs visited apart from a weekly list of beers and pubs for the purposes of reviews for the site and the beer of the week which I enjoy contributing to as well as seeing other people's favourites. These are written on scraps of paper that become increasingly indecipherable on a full day out.
I just remembered that I had a couple of kegs at the London Fields Taproom as they were on Special Offer at £4.00 a pint. They were strong and very good so I didn't feel ripped off.
The Chingford Spoons has knocked the price of the Sixpoint cans down to 0.99p for July so I tried a couple of Bengali Tiger cans today and thought it was a good drink. I can't help thinking that this is a sign that their Sixpoint trial has been a failure. Given that the chilled beer was cloudy this is hardly surprising as I suspect that even the more sophisticated Spoons drinker (is that an Oxymoron?) would find this odd at best. On the other hand the Spoons American IPA on cask seems to have been a big success even though the Chingford Spoons charges Ultra Premium band prices for them (£2.35). The Adnam's Enraptured today was superb.

[Al 10000]

I would imagine that people who look for new pubs and probably like the tradition of pubs will have a few things in common. Drinking beer rather than lager is also traditional. Out of interest do you record the beers you drink in the pubs or is it pubs only.

I have recorded what pubs i visit with the date and beer drunk in that pub since 1982,these are written down in small cash type books,not the thin red ones the posher thicker ones.
So i could tell anybody that i had a drink of Shepherd Neame Master Brew in the Royal Dragoon in Canterbury on the 26th of June 1982 or a drink of Fremlins bitter in the Three Compasses also in Canterbury on the same day,this was one of my largest ever crawls with a mate of mine,we had a quick half in the Alexandra in Chatham then did 25 pubs in Canterbury then finished off in Woolwich and did another 6 pubs,32 done in one day,i was well pleased and also wrote all the names of each pub down.

I also have spread sheet with all of my pubs listed,most of my photograpes are hyperlinked to this list,i can see just by looking at the list which pubs sell real ale or keg beers.

Is this OCD ime not sure,then again i dont have the faintest idea what the means.

[london calling]

Not sure who you are referring to with no quote and the over page bit. When I started OCDville my spreadsheet wasn't as advanced as it is now with hyperlinks back to here for pubs and pub pictures and incorporating kml Google Earth push pin production potential I probably should have added drinks drunk/available and price paid but that's really not going to happen as it would involve a massive revisit tour.

Pubs only is my quest when I've completed the ever expanding quest of every pub in a massive radius of Bristol the only real additions will be pubs when visiting somewhere new and added on a new tab so I can continue to quantify new pubs every year. I'm sure Real Ale is more OCD than lager.

I'd love it if I had a job that took me around the country again with petrol paid as I'd be in as many pubs as I could.

Regarding your Arbor point as a friend of Mr Comer whose business it is I may mention the mark up to him next time I see him...

I would be interested what the brewer thinks of the keg prices.They normally don't say much about specific pubs as they dont want to offend.The brewer from Wild Beer tweeted a few months ago (how come a beer he sold 750mm bottle for £2.25 was being sold at £15 twenty miles away from the brewery).Expensive beer hurts the sales of the brewery and most people think its the brewers fault rather than the pub.