Extra Cold

[RogerB]

A silly question that may appeal to those of a scientific and mathmatical persuasion.

I'm not in the habit of ordering "Extra Cold" beers but something got me wondering about if I ordered a pint of Extra Cold whatever, roughly how long would it take in an average pub environment for the beer to reach the temperature of a similar non-Extra Cold pint? I can't believe that the benefit (if there is any) would last long enough to warrant all the hype/promotion/effort of selling Extra Cold beers.

Another angle...Some of us (and I include myself) are quick to moan when an ale is served too cold. Next time it happens, how long should I realistically leave it to reach the appropriate drinkable temperature?

I know most of us are ale drinkers but on the occasions when we are faced with the choice, does anyone actually opt for Extra Cold over normal and why?

[Oggwyn Trench]

Never drink the extra colds , the gas it served on tends to be a 60/40 or 50/50 CO2/Nitrogen mix which gives me a bugger of a headache , research suggests its a similar effect to divers getting the bends . If you remember when Caffreys first came out people kept saying it must be strong , i had a hell of a headache the next morning , it wasnt the beer it was the gas

[oldboots]

I know most of us are ale drinkers but on the occasions when we are faced with the choice, does anyone actually opt for Extra Cold over normal and why?

Usually these are lagers, (which I would rather drink than any "smooth"), so they need to be cold to start with. Working on the basis that chilling beer removes flavour I would say the colder the better for most of these :D . The exception is Guinness which I find disgusting when extra cold.

[NickDavies]

Not simple. Consider Newton's Law of Cooling below, reversing the direction of heat transfer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_transfer

Once you've considered that for a while - 90 seconds should suffice - admit defeat and adjourn to the pub to conduct some practical experiments. Take plenty of money as you'll be there a while. Water has a comparatively high heat capacity so it'll take several hours to get reproducible results, more if you keep forgetting the earlier ones, or can't read your notes and have to perform reruns.

[aleandhearty]

Never drink the extra colds , the gas it served on tends to be a 60/40 or 50/50 CO2/Nitrogen mix which gives me a bugger of a headache , research suggests its a similar effect to divers getting the bends . If you remember when Caffreys first came out people kept saying it must be strong , i had a hell of a headache the next morning , it wasnt the beer it was the gas

Fascinating. Never heard that before Oggy, but it makes sense.


Usually these are lagers, (which I would rather drink than any "smooth"), so they need to be cold to start with. Working on the basis that chilling beer removes flavour I would say the colder the better for most of these :D .

Have you ever actually drunk any of these at room temperature? (Don't ask) They're more revolting than a Greek tax-payer.

[trainman]

While on the subject of temperature and lager (substitute hell), I may as well take the opportunity to attach this tenuous link. Stick with it...

http://ctweblogs.wordpress.com/2007/04/12/is-hell-exothermic-or-endothermic/

[HTM69]

In response to Roger's question: not that long, if my experiences are anything to go by. Guinness was my sole option for a time and so, so, many pubs now only stock the 'extra cold' variety. When not in any kind of rush, I found that 10-15 minute wait would usually dio the trick. Of course, we're talking about the good 'ol pre-July '07 days, when I got puff on a B&H for a bit. IMO, sip the beer very slowley - and before you know it, the beer will have reached it's desired temperature.

[Farway]

I cannot answer the question, but luckily my local, which keeps running out of 6x [note to self, use another pub] has Guinness at normal temperature as well as extra cold, so I have chosen this option at times

[Strongers]

I'll always opt for the normal Guinness, but if it is not up to scratch I will swap to extra cold if available as the drop in temperature seems to mask the taste a little.

[HTM69]

I'm sure I am well off the mark here, but could the recent(ish) surgence of 'extra cold' lagers be a ploy by the big beer companies to keep customers away from real ale? Strongers is very correct in his point regarding the 'masking' of the taste: they indeed do. As a result, customers will be less aware of the nasty taste of the Carling, Fosters, Carlsberg, etc.

Are there any real benefits of 'extra cold' beers from the pubs viewpoint? Are they easier to keep?

[NickDavies]

I'm sure I am well off the mark here, but could the recent(ish) surgence of 'extra cold' lagers be a ploy by the big beer companies to keep customers away from real ale? Strongers is very correct in his point regarding the 'masking' of the taste: they indeed do. As a result, customers will be less aware of the nasty taste of the Carling, Fosters, Carlsberg, etc.

Are there any real benefits of 'extra cold' beers from the pubs viewpoint? Are they easier to keep?

Isn't it just the setup of the cooling machine? As for Guinness if I rember rightly the only difference is that the extra cold does a second loop round the chiller, it all comes out of the same barrel.

[Eddie86]

Isn't it just the setup of the cooling machine? As for Guinness if I rember rightly the only difference is that the extra cold does a second loop round the chiller, it all comes out of the same barrel.

There's two options - we sell Carlsberg extra cold nowadays. Option one - in the cellar is a chiller that is basically an ice box with copper coils through it. Through each copper coil passes a different 'keg product' - be it lager, guinness, cider etc. To get extra cold you take the 'out' from the coil and plug it into the 'in' part of another coil - so the product goes through twice as NickD points out above.

The other option is a flash cooler - another chiller under the bar. The lager (for sake of argument) passes through the chiller in the cellar once, and then through the flash cooler. The idea behind this is that the flash cooler chills the lager in the ice bank, but the insulates the line all the way to the tap - so any lager sitting in the line can't warm up, whereas in theory lager in the line using the double dip method (option 1) can warm up to 'normal' lager temp.


It is worth noting that some ales now have a cooling system that chills it to the point of dispense. For example, my ales are cellar chilled to 11C, and the lines are just over 1 pint long - just over a half of this length of line is in the cellar. So in theory half a pint could warm up to room temperature before being served. In places, normally with 3-4 pint lines, the lines are wrapped around a water line, and the entire lot insulated. The water passes through the line at 11C, and so keeps the ale in the lines wrapped around it chilled to cellar temp.

Hope that wasn't too boring for you!

[Conrad]

While on the subject of temperature and lager (substitute hell), I may as well take the opportunity to attach this tenuous link. Stick with it...

http://ctweblogs.wordpress.com/2007/04/12/is-hell-exothermic-or-endothermic/
I hadn't read that version of it before, still a classic though.

I have a friend who always orders the extra cold Guinness where it is an option as he swears it pours faster.

As to the original question there are many factors to be taken into account, the alcohol by volume as Ethanol has a far lower heat capacity than the water that makes up the bulk of the drink, temperature of glass and surrounding atmosphere should also be taken into account along with the owners desperation for a drink. All in all the answer is largely pointless I feel but certainly worthy of a practical and regular reassessment.

[trainman]

I don't often go thru the blog segment, but came across this...

http://forums.pubsgalore.co.uk/showthread.php?2382-Boak-and-Bailey-s-Beer-Blog-A-classic-cold-beer#post12758

[Conrad]

I really want to make a tongue in cheek racist remark about foreigners ruining our country, sadly I am concerned I may accidentally be taken seriously.

I'm thinking it really hard though! ;)