Just a twat and move every area?

[bcfczuluarmy]

b

[Aqualung]

b

Que??

[rpadam]

Who are you and why have you chosen to attack Swindon today. Some justified changes some stupid ones.
Most of them were me, having been prompted by seeing a few over recent weeks that were way out, and if there any stupid ones I'll happily change them back.

However, I didn't change anything without checking a variety of sources such as individual pub websites, many of which were added or updated in the process, and a range of map sources.

Please PM with anything that needs fixing.

[bcfczuluarmy]

Apologies tbh on the whole just me having a hissy fit.... East, West, North had pissed off so deletion of these areas has come as a pleasant surprise as I thought I'll leave it as is was as it had a sub area associated with it. It annoyed me as I was in East Swindon this afternoon having a pint and spotted the changes going on. Some of the other changes have just messed with my spreadsheet more than the end of the world.

[rpadam]

Apologies tbh on the whole just me having a hissy fit.... East, West, North had pissed off so deletion of these areas has come as a pleasant surprise as I thought I'll leave it as is was as it had a sub area associated with it. It annoyed me as I was in East Swindon this afternoon having a pint and spotted the changes going on. Some of the other changes have just messed with my spreadsheet more than the end of the world.
Thanks for the update, and sorry for any annoyance caused, but still very happy to correct any mistakes or improve any area allocations for accuracy.

[Al 10000]

Apologies tbh on the whole just me having a hissy fit.... East, West, North had pissed off so deletion of these areas has come as a pleasant surprise as I thought I'll leave it as is was as it had a sub area associated with it. It annoyed me as I was in East Swindon this afternoon having a pint and spotted the changes going on. Some of the other changes have just messed with my spreadsheet more than the end of the world.


Apologies tbh on the whole just me having a hissy fit.... East, West, North had pissed off so deletion of these areas has come as a pleasant surprise as I thought I'll leave it as is was as it had a sub area associated with it. It annoyed me as I was in East Swindon this afternoon having a pint and spotted the changes going on. Some of the other changes have just messed with my spreadsheet more than the end of the world.

It was me who added the Swindon pubs to North,South East and West.
If i am doing a pub crawl in a large town or city where i dont know the areas that well,i think compass points work well,i never delete the actual area the pub is in,so what arm is it to have North,South, East or West alongside the area the pub is in.
I know this has caused problems in the past,but i really dont see any problem in doing this.
I hope to visit Bristol for the second time in the next few months,i have only drunk in Clifton,Hotwells and Cottham,i have no clue where St Pauls is in relation to the City centre,if the pubs in that area said North or East for example,i would no which way to walk.

On another note,while i was watching all of the pubs in Swindon that i had added to compass points being deleted,in a rage i deleted lots of my photos of pubs in said areas.

[Mobyduck]

I just print a map and go by that.

[Blackthorn]

I really wouldn't want to see all the Bristol pubs divided in to four compass points. Bristol East could include St Philips and Lawrence Hill or Oldland Common and Warmley - several miles apart and not at all the same area.

FYI, St Pauls is NE of, and fairly close to, the city centre.

[Aqualung]

On another note,while i was watching all of the pubs in Swindon that i had added to compass points being deleted,in a rage i deleted lots of my photos of pubs in said areas.

Did you also delete in a rage my addition for the second time of the King William IV in Nottingham as being included in Nottingham Central?
These areas are not permanently set in stone and can be about perception more than anything. I walked to this pub from Nottingham Station and also noted that it was just around the corner from the Capital FM Arena which seemed a fairly central sort of place to me. The main point about adding it to Nottingham Central is it means that people visiting Nottingham new to the City can see it as a great pub well worth visiting close to or in my opinion in the City Centre. I'm going to add it back to Nottingham Central and hope you won't delete it again. I don't often mess around with areas but thought that this one was completely valid.

[oldboots]

This is a subject that has raised hackles in the past so maybe we should try to come to a consensus on what we want to see .

Once upon a time there were very few pubs assigned to areas and in fact very few area labels in the system, so for example every pub in the Liverpool post code area (L) was in one big list as was every pub in Manchester (M), Leeds (LS), Newcastle (NE) and Birmingham (B). This made finding pubs close enough for a pub crawl very difficult, I'm guessing that is the main use people put areas to. So some of us spent a great deal of time putting pubs into usable areas. Two things come from that, those people who did the original work are possessive of their baby, secondly the areas are there to make life easier when searching, Pubs Galore is not some Gazetteer.

So how do we decide on an area name and which area the pub is in? Personally I look at a map or two and the Royal Mail and see what the area is generally called, if it could be in two areas then show both (or more) areas - the label says "served areas". I have always taken that to mean "it is close enough to those areas to be part of the same crawl". When assigning the central area I usually take walking distance of the alleged centre of a town, within a ring road is usually a good indicator of a central area. In York you could use "within the walls" but that's a bit of a small area. Whatever it's called the local name ought to be used if possible, back in York an odd gentleman got very upset about the use of "Holgate" as Holgate is split by the railway and one side should in his opinion be called Leeman Road. These days, due to infill building it isn't easy to say exactly where one area ends and another starts, I've often heard locals arguing whither somewhere is in one place or another.

On the tricky subject of compass points, I have no strong feelings against if it makes finding nearby pubs easier but how far out do you go with a compass point before it loses meaning? Where does East London end and Stepney, Poplar or Dagenham become more useful? I wouldn't want to get silly with compass points and go for the full 32 or even 128 points, "North by a half East Nottingham" doesn't really work. Even just the four main points is a bit nebulus for me, I prefer a map in conjunction with a list from a given area but if others find the compass points easier then fair enough, they're not doing any harm.

[sheffield hatter]

On another note,while i was watching all of the pubs in Swindon that i had added to compass points being deleted,in a rage i deleted lots of my photos of pubs in said areas.

I hope you kept a list of which pubs' photos you deleted, so that you could resubmit them when you calmed down.

Why not come on here and discuss it with others before throwing your rattle out of the pram? There's now a handily titled thread: "Just a twat", which will make it easy to find next time!

Good will and joy to all mankind.

[sheffield hatter]

This is a subject that has raised hackles in the past so maybe we should try to come to a consensus on what we want to see .

So how do we decide on an area name and which area the pub is in? Personally I look at a map or two and the Royal Mail and see what the area is generally called, if it could be in two areas then show both (or more) areas - the label says "served areas". I have always taken that to mean "it is close enough to those areas to be part of the same crawl". When assigning the central area I usually take walking distance of the alleged centre of a town, within a ring road is usually a good indicator of a central area.

On the tricky subject of compass points, I have no strong feelings against if it makes finding nearby pubs easier but how far out do you go with a compass point before it loses meaning? Even just the four main points is a bit nebulus for me, I prefer a map in conjunction with a list from a given area but if others find the compass points easier then fair enough, they're not doing any harm.

All good points well made. But with room for disagreement, as others will no doubt find. I totally agree that trying to establish some sort of common ground is the way to go.

Areas within large towns or cities can be very tricky, as they tend to blend into one another. But as you say, there's no harm in including a pub in two or more apparently overlapping areas. And if someone wants to create a mega-area called Large City East, I don't see too much of a problem there either.

[Al 10000]

Did you also delete in a rage my addition for the second time of the King William IV in Nottingham as being included in Nottingham Central?
These areas are not permanently set in stone and can be about perception more than anything. I walked to this pub from Nottingham Station and also noted that it was just around the corner from the Capital FM Arena which seemed a fairly central sort of place to me. The main point about adding it to Nottingham Central is it means that people visiting Nottingham new to the City can see it as a great pub well worth visiting close to or in my opinion in the City Centre. I'm going to add it back to Nottingham Central and hope you won't delete it again. I don't often mess around with areas but thought that this one was completely valid.

The answer to that is YES,i did make make the alterations to the King William 1V as this is a Sneinton pub close to Sneinton market,it may be a short walk from the city centre,but it is not in the city centre,as i have said before i know sneinton and the rest of Nottingham very well and have connections to relatives who live in Sneinton,ask
any one who has lived in Nottingham for over 30 odd years and they will say the King William 1V is in Sneinton and not the city centre.
What give you the right after one visit to the city to decide to say the pub is in the city centre when it is definatly not.

I will alter it back to its proper status which is firstly Sneinton then Nottingham East,i am now getting pretty pissed off by doing what in my opinion is right.

[ROBCamra]

But, sadly Al, that's only YOUR opinion, most people disagree with you.

And yes, you need to get some anger management therapy otherwise all your toys are going to be broken before Christmas aren't they?

I totally disagree with OB, that's never happened before has it OB? :evilgrin:

I think compass point areas are useless and look crap.

What is the point (for example) having an area called South Manchester which has circa 111 pubs in it.

It stretches from The Footage (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/25911/) which is nearly Manchester Central to The Famous Trevor Arms (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/60006/)
which is in Chorlton.

It's difficult to even get them on the same map page, nevermind read it when you have FFS.

Total bollocks!

I seem to recall that last time this blew up I said I would stop removing pubs from stupid areas like this
if Al would stop adding more of this crap.

Only one of us has stood by that agreement so far.:moremad:

[Al 10000]

I hope you kept a list of which pubs' photos you deleted, so that you could resubmit them when you calmed down.

Why not come on here and discuss it with others before throwing your rattle out of the pram? There's now a handily titled thread: "Just a twat", which will make it easy to find next time!

Good will and joy to all mankind.

The rattle flew out of the pram on Sunday afternoon,and now after reading aqualungs post about the King William 1V in Sneinton it has gone out again.

All i ever tried to do for this site since i joined it is what in my opinion is for the best,i have gone round pubs i have already done just to keep the site up to date and was planning to re photo lots of Nottingham pubs,my recent reviews have not gone on the site yet due to this.

I also just stopped deleting all of my Nottingham pubs and conurbation photos on Sunday afternoon.

I would like to end by saying i only try my hardest for the site.

[sheffield hatter]

The rattle flew out of the pram on Sunday afternoon,and now after reading aqualungs post about the King William 1V in Sneinton it has gone out again.

All i ever tried to do for this site since i joined it is what in my opinion is for the best,i have gone round pubs i have already done just to keep the site up to date and was planning to re photo lots of Nottingham pubs,my recent reviews have not gone on the site yet due to this.

I also just stopped deleting all of my Nottingham pubs and conurbation photos on Sunday afternoon.

I would like to end by saying i only try my hardest for the site.

...and I for one have often said that your efforts for the site are much appreciated and a major contribution. But from time to time you get into a rage and start deleting stuff.

As ROBCamra says, it looks like you could use some anger management therapy.

[Al 10000]

...and I for one have often said that your efforts for the site are much appreciated and a major contribution. But from time to time you get into a rage and start deleting stuff.

As ROBCamra says, it looks like you could use some anger management therapy.

Well thats me told then,i better f off and get some of this anger management therapy that you and rob are advising for me.

[oldboots]

I totally disagree with OB, that's never happened before has it OB? :evilgrin:



vanishingly rare, what with me being such a calm and reasonable chap. :D I still think compass points do no harm, people are free to use or ignore them as they wish.




Areas within large towns or cities can be very tricky, as they tend to blend into one another. But as you say, there's no harm in including a pub in two or more apparently overlapping areas.

Exactly; as I said the label reads "served areaS" - plural and Pubs Galore is not a Gazetteer it's a guide, the label doesn't say what area is the place in, that should be in the address, Dave M has some strong opinions on "Geography Lessons". The Served Areas field is a guide to what is nearby as far as I'm concerned. Put the pedantry and OCD to one side :eek: (did I actually say that! :eek:).

[AlanH]

vanishingly rare, what with me being such a calm and reasonable chap. :D I still think compass points do no harm, people are free to use or ignore them as they wish.



Exactly; as I said the label reads "served areaS" - plural and Pubs Galore is not a Gazetteer it's a guide, the label doesn't say what area is the place in, that should be in the address, Dave M has some strong opinions on "Geography Lessons". The Served Areas field is a guide to what is nearby as far as I'm concerned. Put the pedantry and OCD to one side :eek: (did I actually say that! :eek:).

I agree with OB. Compass points do no harm. When I first saw them in Manchester I thought "What's the point? the pubs have all got local areas". Then I realised that was because I know all the areas in Manchester. When I saw them in towns with lots of local areas with only 1 or 2 pubs in, I found the compass grouping more useful.

As for The King William IV in Nottingham, It may not be in the centre, but only 15 mins walk from the station it could be on a centre crawl, so it certainly SERVES the centre and should be included. If I see two or more served areas like, 'Nottingham Centre, Nottingham East, Sneinton' , I can tell that the pub is to the East but on the edge of the centre.

Call it a score draw Al, we all have slightly different views. It adds to the interest and improves the site.

[bcfczuluarmy]

OK as I started this due to my "hackles" rising/seeing red I'll put my side/view of things.

I don't do pub crawls I just visit every pub in an area. The below map I've added in red the area where my quest is currently at. I've done every open pub in the area of red along with many closed ones and some where you can get a drink but not bothered to add apart from about 75 in Bath Central which is the central bit not long walk to outkirts/ inner suburbs in my view, 2 in Chippenham Town, 15 in Devizes Town and some stragglers/reopened pubs in within the whole area.

1296

So recently I've exhausted nearly ever pub apart and thought I'll tack Swindon on with the view of doing it so my approach is, select postal area, remove icons and copy and paste all details into a spread sheet. So after establishing which side of the A419 the areas fell on e.g Built up Swindon or other locations/villages not already visited I was left with masses of duplications due to North, East and West Swindon, that I had to go and cross reference before removing from spread sheet, call that bit OCD as didn't want to miss any off. I lived with that as I knew my spread sheet was accurate in the end and added a sub area so others wouldn't get missed as I've found when doing other areas and having to return for a photo.

When I check all these I also update every map point and get a NGR's to make KML files to use on my phone to know where every pub is for photo/visit purposes, something that other contributors don't seem too bothered about doing but again my OCD.

The mass change that Richard started on Sunday coincided with me just adding a picture/visiting for the first pub that came in the "updates Email" that's where the problem started and subsequent long emails of mass change started the thread I couldn't delete....

So given the valid comments added in this aptly named thread:-

Compass points add clutter to the site, especially if an actual area isn't also added. Historically when I joined I took the approach of trying to correct Bristol based on exact suburb rather than what Dave confirmed in a thread after I think I raised the issue of "if it's walkable then it serves those areas added", I took that onboard and left it as it was apat from anything obviously wrong.

I could clutter up areas in Bristol with multiple different areas boarding/adjoining a main road such as the A38 as some are walkable from potentially 7 different existing suburbs listed but generally if looking at the map points it becomes glaringly obvious how close some areas are.

I'm sure I'll make additions once I reread this.

[Aqualung]

As for The King William IV in Nottingham, It may not be in the centre, but only 15 mins walk from the station it could be on a centre crawl, so it certainly SERVES the centre and should be included. If I see two or more served areas like, 'Nottingham Centre, Nottingham East, Sneinton' , I can tell that the pub is to the East but on the edge of the centre.

Call it a score draw Al, we all have slightly different views. It adds to the interest and improves the site.

Precisely! There was a lot of building work going on in the area so the centre of Nottingham is clearly spreading eastwards just like it has been in London for decades.