Why haven't beer prices come down?

[Aqualung]

In the last two years there have been two duty reductions as well as rapidly falling fuel prices. Last year's weather seems to have produced a bumper crop of fruit and veg, I don't know enough about farming to say whether it would have benefitted barley and hops. Has any pub anywhere reduced their prices? I think we all know that the answer to that is a big fat NO, so why is that?
My opinion is that the trade just charges what they can get away with regardless of all other factors and I would include Wetherspoons in the mix.
The pub trade always whinges on about duty increases and other spiralling costs so why is there no reaction when quite clearly the exact opposite is happening?

[Mobyduck]

In the last two years there have been two duty reductions as well as rapidly falling fuel prices. Last year's weather seems to have produced a bumper crop of fruit and veg, I don't know enough about farming to say whether it would have benefitted barley and hops. Has any pub anywhere reduced their prices? I think we all know that the answer to that is a big fat NO, so why is that?
My opinion is that the trade just charges what they can get away with regardless of all other factors and I would include Wetherspoons in the mix.
The pub trade always whinges on about duty increases and other spiralling costs so why is there no reaction when quite clearly the exact opposite is happening?

Cos they're greedy feckers.

[Al 10000]

In the last two years there have been two duty reductions as well as rapidly falling fuel prices. Last year's weather seems to have produced a bumper crop of fruit and veg, I don't know enough about farming to say whether it would have benefitted barley and hops. Has any pub anywhere reduced their prices? I think we all know that the answer to that is a big fat NO, so why is that?
My opinion is that the trade just charges what they can get away with regardless of all other factors and I would include Wetherspoons in the mix.
The pub trade always whinges on about duty increases and other spiralling costs so why is there no reaction when quite clearly the exact opposite is happening?

Take a trip up to Heckmondwike,the few pubs are still up and running are all charging £2 a pint,the Old Hall is even cheaper as it is a Samuel Smiths tied house,i even got a pint of Lees keg bitter for a £1 a pint as it was mistakenly poured out as a pint when i has asked for a half,but the landlord said you can have it for a £1.

[Aqualung]

Take a trip up to Heckmondwike,the few pubs are still up and running are all charging £2 a pint,the Old Hall is even cheaper as it is a Samuel Smiths tied house,i even got a pint of Lees keg bitter for a £1 a pint as it was mistakenly poured out as a pint when i has asked for a half,but the landlord said you can have it for a £1.

Thanks for that, I've heard of the name but needless to say had to look up where it was. I didn't know that Lees beers travelled as far as Yorkshire (Spoons excepted).

[london calling]

Take a trip up to Heckmondwike,the few pubs are still up and running are all charging £2 a pint,the Old Hall is even cheaper as it is a Samuel Smiths tied house,i even got a pint of Lees keg bitter for a £1 a pint as it was mistakenly poured out as a pint when i has asked for a half,but the landlord said you can have it for a £1.

How can pubs survive selling beer at that price.Are they mobbed. They must pay £1 a pint to buy the beer at the very least. Wetherspoons have economy of scale with 800+ pubs and the food ,soft drinks even coffee can subsidise the beer prices .I paid £4.35 for a pint of Bengal Lancer in a tenanted Fullers pub on New Years Day.

[Aqualung]

How can pubs survive selling beer at that price.Are they mobbed. They must pay £1 a pint to buy the beer at the very least. Wetherspoons have economy of scale with 800+ pubs and the food ,soft drinks even coffee can subsidise the beer prices .I paid £4.35 for a pint of Bengal Lancer in a tenanted Fullers pub on New Years Day.

You just don't seem to accept that most London pubs are taking you for a ride. I've only tried 500ml bottled Bengal Lancer from the supermarket which cost well under two quid per bottle (I think it was three for a fiver) and I thought it was rubbish.
I would dispute your idea that Spoons food subsidises the beer just as I would Tim Martin's ridiculous suggestion that supermarkets are using zero VAT on fresh or uncooked food items to subsidise cheap booze. In my local Spoons on Steak Club Tuesday the mixed grill costs £6.85 as opposed to £9.70 on other days. When I had one last week I had a Banks's Devil's Backbone keg IPA as the drink which should have been £2.89 and that meant the meal with gammon, rump steak, lamb, sausage, mushroom chips and tomato effectively cost less than £4.00. The food requires someone to microwave it, deliver it and collect the empty plates so is more staff intensive than just a pint of beer.
As for soft drinks what are they anyway? I know about coffee in Spoons though and all the ones I've been to do a free refill of bog-standard coffee from opening to 14:00. This means I could turn up at my local Spoons at 08:00 and drink endless coffees until 14:00 for just 0.79p. I've never done this but last week I got through two for £1.15 in the Willow Walk at Victoria while waiting for the coffin-dodger's pass time to arrive.
In the West Midlands Batham's pubs all sell their Mild at £2.30 and Best Bitter at £2.55, they and their pubs seem to be doing alright. Those prices are competetive with the local Spoons which I've generally found are not as good as a lot of the London ones.

[bcfczuluarmy]

I hear rent in London is cheap like the bird.

[gillhalfpint]

Pub in Birmingham selling 2 beers at 4.8% and 5% at £3.80 a pint, and Beavertown Smog Rocket at £4.60 a pint. Who says prices are coming down.

[Mobyduck]

Typical prices in my area (excluding Spoons) are £3.60 - £3.80 for a pint that is sub 5%, yet the Nags Head (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/1691/) in Reading (20 miles from me) manages to sell all beers whatever the strength at £3.20 with the exception of normally one out of 12 of high ABV 7% or more which is £4.00,so well worth a bus trip for me.

[Aqualung]

Pub in Birmingham selling 2 beers at 4.8% and 5% at £3.80 a pint, and Beavertown Smog Rocket at £4.60 a pint. Who says prices are coming down.

Exactly, the duty savings of 2p a pint and the much lower fuel costs should have meant a reduction in price. When I went to the Chesham Brewerry Shop where all draught Red Squirrel beers including keg are sold at £2.25 a pint the manager said that someone in the trade said to the brewery that they should be charging more for the keg offerings as people will pay it. The brewery who should know better than anyone about the cost of what they are selling disagreed.
My question wasn't really directed at just London but anywhere.

[bcfczuluarmy]

My question wasn't really directed at just London but anywhere.

Revert to post #2

[NickDavies]

Accountants and investors are only interested in the bottom line. If they see turnover and therefore profits and therefore shareholder dividends falling they take fright. They'll want to make roughly the same profit on the same volume which means increasing margins if costs fall. It takes considerable external pressure to get companies to make price cuts, as we see whenever energy or oil prices fall and retail prices lag behind for as long as they can get away with.

[Farway]

It takes considerable external pressure to get companies to make price cuts, as we see whenever energy or oil prices fall and retail prices lag behind for as long as they can get away with.

Round here the "sever external pressure" was a 'spoons opening one door away from Fullers pub, so the beers [daytime weekdays] dropped to £2 a pint, presumably Fullers would rather take a hit than see this very busy pub close

This caused a knock on affect to another Fuller's pub on same main road, another busy & profitable pub, he saw his daytime trade vanish 1 mile south

like wise presumably Fullers would rather take another hit than see this very busy pub close

[london calling]

When pubs galore had a crawl round Liecester I was speaking to the guvnor of the Oakwell brewery pub and asked how they could sell beer for about £2 a pint.He said don't you worry about that lad just sup up ,3 months later brewery closed pubs shut bankrupt..

[london calling]

You just don't seem to accept that most London pubs are taking you for a ride. I've only tried 500ml bottled Bengal Lancer from the supermarket which cost well under two quid per bottle (I think it was three for a fiver) and I thought it was rubbish.
I would dispute your idea that Spoons food subsidises the beer just as I would Tim Martin's ridiculous suggestion that supermarkets are using zero VAT on fresh or uncooked food items to subsidise cheap booze. In my local Spoons on Steak Club Tuesday the mixed grill costs £6.85 as opposed to £9.70 on other days. When I had one last week I had a Banks's Devil's Backbone keg IPA as the drink which should have been £2.89 and that meant the meal with gammon, rump steak, lamb, sausage, mushroom chips and tomato effectively cost less than £4.00. The food requires someone to microwave it, deliver it and collect the empty plates so is more staff intensive than just a pint of beer.
As for soft drinks what are they anyway? I know about coffee in Spoons though and all the ones I've been to do a free refill of bog-standard coffee from opening to 14:00. This means I could turn up at my local Spoons at 08:00 and drink endless coffees until 14:00 for just 0.79p. I've never done this but last week I got through two for £1.15 in the Willow Walk at Victoria while waiting for the coffin-dodger's pass time to arrive.
In the West Midlands Batham's pubs all sell their Mild at £2.30 and Best Bitter at £2.55, they and their pubs seem to be doing alright. Those prices are competetive with the local Spoons which I've generally found are not as good as a lot of the London ones.

I do accept that some pubs take you for a ride that's why I mentioned the Bengal Lancer(nice pint though).That's good value for a mixed grill but on the same menu Pasta Pomedoro £5.59 that's pasta and tomato sauce to you and me.Maybe a slightly higher profit margin.Anyway back to the basic question.If they pass on the 10p savings they have recently made would you change your local and drink in another pub to save money.Most wouldn't so they know that and don't bother and breweries will tell you it means they wont have to increase prices as much this coming year.Win Win as they say.

[Aqualung]

I do accept that some pubs take you for a ride that's why I mentioned the Bengal Lancer(nice pint though).That's good value for a mixed grill but on the same menu Pasta Pomedoro £5.59 that's pasta and tomato sauce to you and me.Maybe a slightly higher profit margin.Anyway back to the basic question.If they pass on the 10p savings they have recently made would you change your local and drink in another pub to save money.Most wouldn't so they know that and don't bother and breweries will tell you it means they wont have to increase prices as much this coming year.Win Win as they say.

I'm with you on the Pomedoro, I thought it was absolute rubbish and would never try it again. It must cost about 50p for the ingredients at most. The Spoons January Sale starts on Monday and I THINK the poster in my local one said that guest ales would be from £1.79.
One pub not far from me has started a "beer of the week" for just £3.00 as opposed to £3.40 so I do feel like it's worth popping in there for one on the way to the Spoons. It underwent what must have been an expensive thirteen week refurbishment last summer.

[sheffield hatter]

On my travels this year I've been getting used to paying well over £3 a pint - places like Luton (£3.30), Exeter (£3.50 average), Bristol (£3.40 to £3.90), Edinburgh (£3.65) come to mind. Burton on Trent (£3.00) was an exception, and then we have the total rip off that is Brighton (£3.85 (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/10554/)) and don't get me started on London. Went for a walk in Edale the other day and my refreshment at The Old Nags Head Inn (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/54180/) came in at £3.65 a pint.

Here in Sheffield I hardly ever pay over £3, and regular favourites such as Kelham Island Best at the Fat Cat and Thwaites Nutty Black at the Kelham Island Tavern are much nearer to £2 than £3.

[Aqualung]

On my travels this year I've been getting used to paying well over £3 a pint - places like Luton (£3.30), Exeter (£3.50 average), Bristol (£3.40 to £3.90), Edinburgh (£3.65) come to mind. Burton on Trent (£3.00) was an exception, and then we have the total rip off that is Brighton (£3.85 (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/10554/)) and don't get me started on London. Went for a walk in Edale the other day and my refreshment at The Old Nags Head Inn (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/54180/) came in at £3.65 a pint.


As some fat bloke with long hair once said "You took the words right out of my mouth". Even Holden's know how to charge for their guest ales. The strong ones in the Great Western are priced at £3.60 and that includes their own Old Ale but at least they are six or seven per cent ABV. I think their own Special there is £2.90.

[Mobyduck]

Here in Sheffield I hardly ever pay over £3, and regular favourites such as Kelham Island Best at the Fat Cat and Thwaites Nutty Black at the Kelham Island Tavern are much nearer to £2 than £3.
And they say "Its grim up north" . :confused:

[NickDavies]

Well I stopped for a quick one in here (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/23057/) today. JAQPTIO paid £3.79 for a pint of Harvey's best just 20 months ago. My very average (2 points) and short measured pint of the same beer was an ambitious £4.25. Greedy King are clearly milking their new central London investments for every penny they can get.

[hondo]

http://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/General-News/Licensees-face-wholesale-beer-price-increases

[oldboots]

http://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/General-News/Licensees-face-wholesale-beer-price-increases

at normal pub gross margins that works out to 11p on a pint of Strongbow and 12 to 13p on the Fosters, fortunately I don't drink either but I'd like to see how many licensees will get away with that level of increase.

[london calling]

I see on Twitter that the landlord of the Eagle Ale House a Enterprise pub in Clapham area had to pay £145.77 for a firkin of Surrey Hills -Greensand ipa 4.6.Assuming he gets 70 pints from it that's £2.08 a pint.Dearer than some pubs are selling beer for oop north.

[Aqualung]

I see on Twitter that the landlord of the Eagle Ale House a Enterprise pub in Clapham area had to pay £145.77 for a firkin of Surrey Hills -Greensand ipa 4.6.Assuming he gets 70 pints from it that's £2.08 a pint.Dearer than some pubs are selling beer for oop north.

A good reason to avoid Enterprise pubs, but having said that to the best of my knowledge all three E17 GBG listed pubs are owned by Enterpise.
It's not Surrey Hills charging them that, it's Lack Of Enterprise who fix it, and I believe the brewery also have to deliver it to the pub. It's the same sort of price that my local Wild Card Brewery charge for Joe Public to take away.
I expect Lack Of Enterprise are ripping them off so they can flog off the trendy Clapham site to help pay off their huge debts. Either that or they are riggng the prices for pubs that are considered to be in a trendy affluent area. I heard on the grapevine that the Nags Head in the heart of trendy Walthamstow village had beer prices over four quid a pint.
I would add that JDW do a similar thing, their pub at Balham is far more expensive than the Tooting one and nowhere near as good, although they are both fairly typical Old School London Spoons.

[Mobyduck]

I see on Twitter that the landlord of the Eagle Ale House a Enterprise pub in Clapham area had to pay £145.77 for a firkin of Surrey Hills -Greensand ipa 4.6.Assuming he gets 70 pints from it that's £2.08 a pint.Dearer than some pubs are selling beer for oop north.
Nice pub and nice beer, shame about all the political (greed) b"^&£"ks that goes with it.

[london calling]

Nice pub and nice beer, shame about all the political (greed) b"^&£"ks that goes with it.
I t is a good pub and good beer.
I used to pop in to one of my local pubs pub on my way home for a couple of pints 2 or 3 nights a week until about 5 years ago.Decided tonight to pop in the Ealing Park Tavern my nearest pub.Two superb pints Great heck -black jesus and Northern Monk-pale ale £4.50 AND £4.30.£8.80 for 2 pints. Will not be resuming my former habit.

[bcfczuluarmy]

Ouch

[NickDavies]

£4.75 for a pint of Westerham 1730 in a Taylor Walker (aka Greedy King) pub the other day

[Wittenden]

£4 for a pint of Burning Sky Plateau (3.5%abv). Excellent beer,but I've never knowingly spent that money on a session bitter.Shepherd & Dog (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/39621/) (West Sussex, not far from Brighton.)

[rpadam]

Taylor Walker (aka Greedy King)
Taylor Walker is part of the Spirit Pub Company, and that hasn't been taken over by Greene King... yet. The Greene King and Spirit shareholders voted to accept the deal last week (the 13th) by about 99.9% to 0.1% in both cases. However, the transaction has yet to be completed - possibly sometime next month (and by 31 May 2015 at the latest).

[NickDavies]

Taylor Walker is part of the Spirit Pub Company, and that hasn't been taken over by Greene King... yet. The Greene King and Spirit shareholders voted to accept the deal last week (the 13th) by about 99.9% to 0.1% in both cases. However, the transaction has yet to be completed - possibly sometime next month (and by 31 May 2015 at the latest).

I've mixed feelings about whether this is a good or bad thing. Four of the five nearest pubs to work are TW, after that its a toss up between GK and Fullers, then yet more TW outlets. It's legacy of Grotney's dominance of that part of London. All of the TW pubs suffer from poor beer quality, though they do ring the changes on the guests a bit for those who don't want Doombar or Pride. GK may well up the cellarmanship standards, but unless they adopt a liberal guest beer policy the chances of finding something you actually want to drink will be restricted.

[rpadam]

I've mixed feelings about whether this is a good or bad thing. Four of the five nearest pubs to work are TW, after that its a toss up between GK and Fullers, then yet more TW outlets. It's legacy of Grotney's dominance of that part of London. All of the TW pubs suffer from poor beer quality, though they do ring the changes on the guests a bit for those who don't want Doombar or Pride. GK may well up the cellarmanship standards, but unless they adopt a liberal guest beer policy the chances of finding something you actually want to drink will be restricted.
Agree with you about the mixed feelings, but - whatever you might otherwise think about them - Greene King can certainly do a good job with a liberal guest beer policy when they try. A few examples:

Woodies (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/43014/), Leeds which is still a Greene King branded 'local pub' but which has apparently changed out of all recognition since the last review on this site and now adopts a very decent-sounding ale-house format with 12 handpumps (official site (http://gkpubs.co.uk/pubs-in-leeds/woodies-pub)).

Williams Ale & Cider House (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/25367/), E1 which shows what they can do with a sub-brand i.e. Metropolitan Pub Company in this case (official site (http://www.williamsspitalfields.com/)).

And, if you didn't know in advance, I doubt that 1 in 100 people would guess that The Bedford (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/66363/) in Tunbridge Wells is still a Greene King pub (official site (http://www.thebedfordtw.co.uk/)).

[Bucking Fastard]

Agree with you about the mixed feelings, but - whatever you might otherwise think about them - Greene King can certainly do a good job with a liberal guest beer policy when they try. A few examples:

Woodies (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/43014/), Leeds which is still a Greene King branded 'local pub' but which has apparently changed out of all recognition since the last review on this site and now adopts a very decent-sounding ale-house format with 12 handpumps (official site (http://gkpubs.co.uk/pubs-in-leeds/woodies-pub)).

Williams Ale & Cider House (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/25367/), E1 which shows what they can do with a sub-brand i.e. Metropolitan Pub Company in this case (official site (http://www.williamsspitalfields.com/)).

And, if you didn't know in advance, I doubt that 1 in 100 people would guess that The Bedford (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/66363/) in Tunbridge Wells is still a Greene King pub (official site (http://www.thebedfordtw.co.uk/)).


That's a very good point.I think what we need is a list of pubs owned by Greene King but which don't serve Greene King brewed beers :evilgrin:

[london calling]

I've mixed feelings about whether this is a good or bad thing. Four of the five nearest pubs to work are TW, after that its a toss up between GK and Fullers, then yet more TW outlets. It's legacy of Grotney's dominance of that part of London. All of the TW pubs suffer from poor beer quality, though they do ring the changes on the guests a bit for those who don't want Doombar or Pride. GK may well up the cellarmanship standards, but unless they adopt a liberal guest beer policy the chances of finding something you actually want to drink will be restricted.

In London GK has a very liberal policy on guest beers and I have found lots of guest beers in pubs I used to walk past.If you think about it from a business point of view its better to sell the competitors beer and make a profit rather than have an empty pub making no money.I doubt where they have a stranglehold on local pubs they adopt this policy.

[Mobyduck]

In London GK has a very liberal policy on guest beers and I have found lots of guest beers in pubs I used to walk past.If you think about it from a business point of view its better to sell the competitors beer and make a profit rather than have an empty pub making no money.I doubt where they have a stranglehold on local pubs they adopt this policy.

I was suprised when I tried a fairly local pub to me about a year ago, in Farnham, The Jolly Sailor. A pub I previously avoided because it was a GK pub, after a tip off I found 6 hand pumps with only two with GK related beers the rest were two or three from decent local independents like Surrey Hills, Tillingbourne and Triple fff and one or two from further afield . I have returned several times since .

[Al 10000]

GK pubs in the Nottingham area usually stock a guest beer from Nottingham brewery.

[Brewguru]

I was suprised when I tried a fairly local pub to me about a year ago, in Farnham, The Jolly Sailor. A pub I previously avoided because it was a GK pub, after a tip off I found 6 hand pumps with only two with GK related beers the rest were two or three from decent local independents like Surrey Hills, Tillingbourne and Triple fff and one or two from further afield . I have returned several times since .

Its one of their "local heroes" pubs, which is a move to be commended IMO
http://www.localheropubs.co.uk/find-a-local-hero-pub

[Mobyduck]

Its one of their "local heroes" pubs, which is a move to be commended IMO
http://www.localheropubs.co.uk/find-a-local-hero-pub
On this example I totally agree, and I was even more shocked to see The Antelope (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/53206/) is involved ,one of my best pubs visited last year and also this year, full respect to Greene King on this score.

[london calling]

On this example I totally agree, and I was even more shocked to see The Antelope (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/53206/) is involved ,one of my best pubs visited last year and also this year, full respect to Greene King on this score.
You may be even more shocked to find the Big Smoke brewery based at the pub is a joint venture with Greene King.