Gbg 2015

[Aqualung]

It finally arrived today and I've not had much chance to look at it yet.

I'd like to see ALL opinions from basic errors to "how could they overlook that pub?" to "why are all these Spoons listed?" to "I'm not renewing my subscription to CAMRA because of this".

I'll kick off with the TV featured Hunter's brewery still being quoted as having expanded to a 60 barrel kit when it was 15.
Brodie's apparently still have a regular beer called California despite the fact they haven't brewed it since 2011. I will return to the subject of Brodie's.
Most people probably know that I'm a fan of Spoons but I find it shocking that the town of Hailsham in East Sussex which has a classic Harvey's pub (The King's Head) and a really good one (The Grenadier) now has the Spoons George Hotel entered ignoring both Harvey's pubs. I've been to the George quite a few times and for general atmosphere it's one of the best ones I've been to but the beer quality has been very variable. On a bad day it's poor but on a good day it's superb.

[Mobyduck]

It finally arrived today and I've not had much chance to look at it yet.

I'd like to see ALL opinions from basic errors to "how could they overlook that pub?" to "why are all these Spoons listed?" to "I'm not renewing my subscription to CAMRA because of this".

Most people probably know that I'm a fan of Spoons but I find it shocking that the town of Hailsham in East Sussex which has a classic Harvey's pub (The King's Head) and a really good one (The Grenadier) now has the Spoons George Hotel entered ignoring both Harvey's pubs. I've been to the George quite a few times and for general atmosphere it's one of the best ones I've been to but the beer quality has been very variable. On a bad day it's poor but on a good day it's superb.
It smacks of backscratching in my book.

[Aqualung]

It smacks of backscratching in my book.


I can understand why people think this with the vouchers that are handed out, but the fact is that in a poor area for pubs a Spoons can be the best option by a mile. Romford area remains the same with just Sppons although the Eva Hart at Chadwell Heath has been removed. JJ Moons at Hornchurch was one of the Greater London CAMRA POTY entries, mind you SW London entered a Young's pub. I have no doubt what the best option in Chingford is and it isn't the King's Head.

North West London is interesting this year as the NW postal district pubs included are all in the Borough of Camden, NW1, NW3 and NW5. This leaves a vast area with nothing at all listed.

[Rex_Rattus]

I can only speak about my branch, SW London, but I reckon it's as fair as we can get it. In the editorial of the Feb/Mar London Drinker Geoff Strawbridge set out the sort of considerations we apply. Beer quality is obviously the most important, but other things such as pump clips not reversed when the beer is not available, short measures, and disproportionately expensive half-pints, were all in the mix. A secret ballot at the final meeting decided which pubs got in. There is certainly no backscratching - the pub in which the final meeting was held didn't get in, and nor did our POTY! I expect that other branches are also democratic, but I accept that some decisions can look a bit strange.

In fact Young's pubs were in first, second and third places in our POTY rankings. But we are in the Young's traditional heartland.

[Aqualung]

I can only speak about my branch, SW London, but I reckon it's as fair as we can get it. In the editorial of the Feb/Mar London Drinker Geoff Strawbridge set out the sort of considerations we apply. Beer quality is obviously the most important, but other things such as pump clips not reversed when the beer is not available, short measures, and disproportionately expensive half-pints, were all in the mix. A secret ballot at the final meeting decided which pubs got in. There is certainly no backscratching - the pub in which the final meeting was held didn't get in, and nor did our POTY! I expect that other branches are also democratic, but I accept that some decisions can look a bit strange.

In fact Young's pubs were in first, second and third places in our POTY rankings. But we are in the Young's traditional heartland.

It's never going to be "fair" for eveybody. A secret ballot sounds almost conspiratorial! Did the beer scorings not get taken into account? This is a luxury that wasn't available the last time I went near a GBG selection.

[Rex_Rattus]

It's never going to be "fair" for eveybody. A secret ballot sounds almost conspiratorial! Did the beer scorings not get taken into account? This is a luxury that wasn't available the last time I went near a GBG selection.

Yes, beer scorings were of course taken into account - they were available to everyone at the meeting. The ballot was at the end of the process, after we had heard from those who had visited the pubs. The ballot was only "secret" in that we all had a slip of paper with the 41 contenders on our short list on it, and we had to tick our top 20 (our branch's allocation was 20 slots). But we were in a pub, and of course it would have been possible to overlook someone else's ballot paper. We actually had a 3-way tie for 20th place, which we sorted out with shows of hands.

[Bucking Fastard]

I'm a slow reader,but having perused the 2015 GBG and thinking about Aqualung's question ,I am a bit unhappy about one aspect.

I am always very interested in what ales make it onto the long list for CAMRA's Beer of the Year ,this year on p32.As I understand the process there is democracy at work in the initial process of selection with individual members putting forward their ideas.Tasting panels then wittle this very long list to the shorter long list on p32.Nothings perfect (I would like to see an IPA category),but the long list on p32 can indicate that a small micro is on the map with some decent brews.

What bothers me is the proceeding four pages p28-p31 about classic beer styles and in particular the Rogers Round selections of some of his favourite beers in each style.Why not let the CAMRA members derived selections on p32 be the basis for promoting great real ales in each style ?Mr Protz intervention with his Rogers Round selections feels to me an activity beyond the remit of an editor,is it an attempt to undermine the CAMRA members selections and the tasting panels ? Only four Rogers Round selections feature on p32.

Or am I just being too sensitive ?

[Aqualung]

I'm a slow reader,but having perused the 2015 GBG and thinking about Aqualung's question ,I am a bit unhappy about one aspect.

I am always very interested in what ales make it onto the long list for CAMRA's Beer of the Year ,this year on p32.As I understand the process there is democracy at work in the initial process of selection with individual members putting forward their ideas.Tasting panels then wittle this very long list to the shorter long list on p32.Nothings perfect (I would like to see an IPA category),but the long list on p32 can indicate that a small micro is on the map with some decent brews.

What bothers me is the proceeding four pages p28-p31 about classic beer styles and in particular the Rogers Round selections of some of his favourite beers in each style.Why not let the CAMRA members derived selections on p32 be the basis for promoting great real ales in each style ?Mr Protz intervention with his Rogers Round selections feels to me an activity beyond the remit of an editor,is it an attempt to undermine the CAMRA members selections and the tasting panels ? Only four Rogers Round selections feature on p32.

Or am I just being too sensitive ?

No, I agree. There was no need to have the Roger's Round aspect of the article at all. I think these "best beers" votes are best left for the likes of the BOTW forum here. Many of Herr Protz's selections I have never tried but some that I have would never make it into a BOTW catagory. That isn't really the point.
There are so many factors as to whether a given beer in a pub is OK, good, superb or outstanding that the whole thing becomes a lottery. I endorsed your BOTW Hop Troll the week after on the basis of an outstanding pint in the Wibbas Down. The following Friday I had a pint in the Croydon George and it wasn't as good. This seems to happen all the time and it's not just down to the fact that my example was based on Wetherspoon pubs. Last Friday I had a few Wild Card Queen of Diamonds at the brewery tap and the floral hop flavour three weeks earlier wasn't there. I still loved it!

[Aqualung]

I found the article about beer destinations rather odd. I can't speak for Aberdeen at all as my knowledge of Scotland is very poor and I will also pass on Bristol as I've always tended to visit Bath in preference. This leaves Lincoln and Cardiff. What was their point? Cardiff has always had all the Brain's pubs but other than all the Spoons there and a few other pubs is it that much changed? I've never thought of Lincoln as a beer desert or a noted beer destination.
Surely the most obvious transformed places are Sheffield and Norwich. Derby is another clear contender. I looked at the 1978 GBG for Sheffield recently and it was a sea of Tetley pubs with a few Stones and Ward houses thrown in. This explains why I've never been there! In fact I'm fairly certain that South Yorkshire is the only County of England in which I have never had a pint.

[Al 10000]

Surely the most obvious transformed places are Sheffield and Norwich. Derby is another clear contender. I looked at the 1978 GBG for Sheffield recently and it was a sea of Tetley pubs with a few Stones and Ward houses thrown in. This explains why I've never been there! In fact I'm fairly certain that South Yorkshire is the only County of England in which I have never had a pint.

South Yorkshire was a great county to drink in in the early 80s,the Globe just up from Sheffield train station had one of the best pints of Stones bitter i have ever tasted,this was not a one off,it was a regular pub to have last drink in.

Wards bitter was another nice drink,i made the effort to do most Wards tied houses in Sheffield in the early 80s and when we drank in Ilkeston almost every week our starting point was always the Durham Ox a Wards tied house.

When Tetleys bitter was on form in the older type pubs it was a great drink.

Ime not sure how old you are,but you missed some very nice beers by not visiting South Yorkshire if you are old enough to have done so.

[Aqualung]

Ime not sure how old you are,but you missed some very nice beers by not visiting South Yorkshire if you are old enough to have done so.
I believe I had tried all of the remaining old Regionals in the early to mid eighties apart from Mansfield. I can't honestly remember much about Wards beers although I definitely tried the bitter. Stones was part of Bass Charrington so would not have been a priority, I don't know if I ever tried their beer or not. Tetley bitter was something I endured on several occasions, although the mild was good.
I generally got on better with milds from Nottingham and Yorkshire, Looking at the 1978 Sheffield list only three of the pubs did a cask mild. The outstanding bitter I recall from the area was Shipstone's.

Back then there was a North / South divide for beer. London had a few strong beers, Abbot, ESB and Ruddles County plus all Young's pubs did Special. The Northern and Midlands breweries generally just had an ordinary strength bitter and a mild. Happily this has all changed now as there is really no such thing as a Southern or Northern beer. Sadly, as has been noted elsewhere some West Country and Central Southern brewers insist on producing beers that are far too sweet.

The whole point of the original post was destination places to drink today as opposed to the old days. I don't think Cardiff and Lincoln are the best examples.

[london calling]

I found the article about beer destinations rather odd. I can't speak for Aberdeen at all as my knowledge of Scotland is very poor and I will also pass on Bristol as I've always tended to visit Bath in preference. This leaves Lincoln and Cardiff. What was their point? Cardiff has always had all the Brain's pubs but other than all the Spoons there and a few other pubs is it that much changed? I've never thought of Lincoln as a beer desert or a noted beer destination.
Surely the most obvious transformed places are Sheffield and Norwich. Derby is another clear contender. I looked at the 1978 GBG for Sheffield recently and it was a sea of Tetley pubs with a few Stones and Ward houses thrown in. This explains why I've never been there! In fact I'm fairly certain that South Yorkshire is the only County of England in which I have never had a pint.
From a tickers point of view Sheffield is the top destination.Cardiff has really improved in the last 2 years with pubs selling a good choice of beers.As far as Lincoln and Aberdeen are concerned they are not as far as I know beer destinations.Roger Protz seems to champion the regional brewers when I read his articles and seems to me to be stuck in the 90,s.