Clubs & Off Licences

[Aqualung]

What is the "official" policy on adding these to the site or possibly more importantly the general concensus? My opinion on off licences is that they shouldn't be included unless you can go in there and order a pint from a glass to drink on the premises, which effectively makes it a pub.

I feel a bit different about clubs, even though I find it slightly irritating to see them included in the GBG. The Leyton Orient bar has been included on this site despite the fact that it's not even open most of the time.
There are two reasons why I have raised this issue, one is that there is a council club near me that sells real ale and has been in the GBG in the past. You can get in there with a CAMRA ID but on all the occasions I've been there I don't recall anyone ever asking for ID. They also do two beer festivals every year. I probably wouldn't have voted in May if it wasn't for the fact that the Polling Station was in the TV room of the club!
My second reason is that at some time (next year now) I want to revisit Kinver, a legendary little place from the early CAMRA days. Today the GBG ignores the Batham's pub and lists the former Hanson's but now Black Country Brewery pub the Cross and the Kinver Constitutional Club. The club will sign you in with a CAMRA card and for me all three are "must visits".

Can I suggest that if clubs are added that they should be accessible by showing CAMRA ID and that they include a review?

The last thing I would like to see is a flood of Working Men's or British Legion Clubs that only allow members in and just sell keg.

[Mobyduck]

What is the "official" policy on adding these to the site or possibly more importantly the general concensus? My opinion on off licences is that they shouldn't be included unless you can go in there and order a pint from a glass to drink on the premises, which effectively makes it a pub.

I feel a bit different about clubs, even though I find it slightly irritating to see them included in the GBG. The Leyton Orient bar has been included on this site despite the fact that it's not even open most of the time.
There are two reasons why I have raised this issue, one is that there is a council club near me that sells real ale and has been in the GBG in the past. You can get in there with a CAMRA ID but on all the occasions I've been there I don't recall anyone ever asking for ID. They also do two beer festivals every year. I probably wouldn't have voted in May if it wasn't for the fact that the Polling Station was in the TV room of the club!
My second reason is that at some time (next year now) I want to revisit Kinver, a legendary little place from the early CAMRA days. Today the GBG ignores the Batham's pub and lists the former Hanson's but now Black Country Brewery pub the Cross and the Kinver Constitutional Club. The club will sign you in with a CAMRA card and for me all three are "must visits".

Can I suggest that if clubs are added that they should be accessible by showing CAMRA ID and that they include a review?

The last thing I would like to see is a flood of Working Men's or British Legion Clubs that only allow members in and just sell keg.
I think the general feeling on this matter has been, a club to be entered on the site has to be accessible to all members of the public to go in and buy a drink without an extra charge for entry, so that rules out the CAMRA members only scenario.

[bcfczuluarmy]

I've have a quandary over a sea side member club that allows you into it 6 times a year with member sign in (enough to go in everyday on a weeks holiday) My view has been don't add it but I've done it so I'll leave it at that.

Also managed to get invited into other member clubs just but taking a picture and a member asking why the picture, mate ended up buying artwork the next day from in there. Not sure that's on What's Pub. Also just got told yesterday should go to another members club but they don't care along with another 2 Camra entries that I've got into although one was with my dad's Camra card where he presented me with a fake laminate Camra card .

My view if you can get in them do them but don't add them so people feel they need to visit as featured on here if one day there may be an issue and a members card is required.

Not everyone on here has a Camra card. I do but doubt I'd try and use it as it's fake.

[Aqualung]

I think the general feeling on this matter has been, a club to be entered on the site has to be accessible to all members of the public to go in and buy a drink without an extra charge for entry, so that rules out the CAMRA members only scenario.

That would exclude the already present Orient Supporters Club as it costs a pound to enter without a CAMRA ID.
On that basis it should be deleted and I wouldn't support that at all.
I have a feeling that the Canal Brigade may have a strong opinion about the Kinver Constitutional Club.

[Aqualung]

Not everyone on here has a Camra card. I do but doubt I'd try and use it as it's fake.

I've actually got TWO which says a lot about the CAMRA admin!!

[Mobyduck]

I've actually got TWO which says a lot about the CAMRA admin!!
I ended up with two cards as well when I re-joined last year! As well as two lots of JDW tokens, :confused:

[Bucking Fastard]

I have a feeling that the Canal Brigade may have a strong opinion about the Kinver Constitutional Club.

I have to hang my head in shame and admit I have never been in the Constitutional Club.Last time I was in Kinver was with crew of four,two CAMRA members (me and TP) and two non members and ,although I can be uncompromising,it felt wrong to tell those two to wait outside while we enjoyed the ale.
After a quick visit in The Vine,it was route one to the Batham's Plough and Harrow anyway.

Back to the point,there was a debate on here previously and I seem to remember that clubs could be put on PuG as long as they were visited and reviewed by a contributor and the review made it quite clear what the entry requirements and restrictions are,even if they are rarely enforced.The general expectation is that only a few clubs would ever be listed here ,and they have to be exceptional in some respect like the Orient Supporters Club.

[Dave M]

Back to the point,there was a debate on here previously and I seem to remember that clubs could be put on PuG as long as they were visited and reviewed by a contributor and the review made it quite clear what the entry requirements and restrictions are,even if they are rarely enforced.The general expectation is that only a few clubs would ever be listed here ,and they have to be exceptional in some respect like the Orient Supporters Club.
I think that sums up the policy I tend to adopt pretty well. Needs to be a proper review that also explains the situation - so the person adding it needs to have actually been in for a drink and think that it is worth mentioning on the site.

I'd forgotten about this but we are able to add a note to any listings that are essentially members clubs like we have done here Egham United Services Club (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/70591/)

[rpadam]

I'd forgotten about this but we are able to add a note to any listings that are essentially members clubs like we have done here Egham United Services Club (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/70591/)
This reminds me that I really should add a club in South East London which is a very well-run little place, organising beer festivals, 'meet the brewer' events, regular live music, etc.

Awards include: Camra National Club of the Year 2014 runner up, Camra Greater London Regional Club of the Year 2013, Camra Bromley Club of the Year 2013 and 2014.

It was listed in the Camra Good Beer Guide 2014 - not seen the 2015 edition yet, but it certainly ought to be in.

According to its website (which is updated regularly), it has served 164 different beers in a wide range of styles (many 'Locale') so far this year.

Whatever your politics, the fact that it is the Orpington Liberal Club (http://www.orpingtonliberalclub.co.uk/) shouldn't put you off - it really is a worth a visit if you have a Camra card (up to 8 times a year before you are asked to join) and don't mind a 5-minute walk from the station.

[Aqualung]

Whatever your politics, the fact that it is the Orpington Liberal Club (http://www.orpingtonliberalclub.co.uk/) shouldn't put you off - it really is a worth a visit if you have a Camra card (up to 8 times a year before you are asked to join) and don't mind a 5-minute walk from the station.

I haven't been there but have heard of it. I think this is an excellent example of a club that deserves adding and the political ownership would not put me off going there even if it were UKIP! It's in the 2015 guide as well.

Years ago the best place to drink in E17 was the Walthamstow Liberal Club (can you believe it? it was tied to Greene King!).

[london calling]

Anyplace that charges an entrance fee is not a pub.I dont think clubs should be on here if they charge you or may refuse you entry.As much as I like the Egham United services club they charge a fee to get in.They charge different prices at their beer fest for members and non-members. I went to a preview night before the beer fest and a couple of members had a rant at me for attending a members only night.They were wrong as Camra members were also allowed.Never had that problem in a pub.So a club is not a pub.Nor is La Tasca a pub.

[Aqualung]

Anyplace that charges an entrance fee is not a pub.I dont think clubs should be on here if they charge you or may refuse you entry.As much as I like the Egham United services club they charge a fee to get in.They charge different prices at their beer fest for members and non-members. I went to a preview night before the beer fest and a couple of members had a rant at me for attending a members only night.They were wrong as Camra members were also allowed.Never had that problem in a pub.So a club is not a pub.Nor is La Tasca a pub.

This is my general feeling about clubs. I've only been to two recently the WF local one and the Orient Club, needless to say that was only for beer festivals. It seems to me that either deserving cases are included or all clubs are completely excluded and the existing ones deleted. I must add that I only have an interest in my local one and the Kinver Constitutional Club which I will definitely visit when I go to Kinver regardless of what happens here.

[Farway]

This is a continuing problem, why not add all British Legions? I can go in, ex service. CAMRA members would have to pay

[Quinno]

We did this to death on a previous thread a couple of years back. and if I remember correctly it was settled on clubs being added if it was judged my Dave to be of interest to regular site users (eg beer drinkers, CAMRA-types) and that a suitable line be inserted into the accompanying review clarifying entry requirements. Ultimately, it's Dave's call on a case-by-case basis.