Beer Style Definitions

[Mobyduck]

I am sure we have discussed this elsewhere though I couldn't find it and I know we struggle to define craft beer, and that some among us couldn't care on that subject ,but the general definition of beers across the board seems rather confused. there are many examples but what brought it to mind recently was reading through Old Boots thread and the results of the SIBA South East Area Beer Competition here (http://www.siba.co.uk/events/regional-competitions/south-east/2014-2). In the Best Bitter category we have Hammerpot Australian Pale and Whitstable East India Pale Ale, I haven't tried either of these but unless their names are misleading ,since when are pale ales best bitters? And in the Standard Bitters I have tried these and although I like this style of beer ,citrusy and hoppy, and I know some do not, I don't regard them as standard bitters. Any thoughts?

[sheffield hatter]

They seem to have been placed into categories by alcoholic strength rather than style.

[oldboots]

CAMRA defines the beer categories in a different way to others basing it mainly on strength as defined by Original Gravity and colour. SIBA seems to follow the CAMRA model in general. You will notice that SIBA doesn't have either an IPA or Golden Ale category, CAMRA has added "Golden Ales" in the last few years but lumps Black IPAs into "Speciality Beers" alongside beers with honey in, wheat beers and Saltaire's range of fruit essence and chocolate beer. The American Brewers Association has an extremely varied and rather silly system of beer styles which I think is informed by a misreading of Michael Jackson's World Guide to Beer.

The term IPA is of course as fraught with danger as the C word, IPAs ranging from the Greene King Version to Flying Dog's extremities. In historical terms all bitters are Pale Ales as "bitter" was a slang term for the paler, drier 19th Century beers that started to compete with the dark, sweet, heavy beers of earlier times. Mild is another term that can cause trouble, originally a word meaning fresh or new as opposed to the long matured beers sold at the time which were referred to as "stale". By the 1950s Mild had come to mean a low strength, low hop rate, usually dark beer, however today mild encompasses, Timothy Taylor's "Golden Best" light in colour at 3.5% and Sarah Hughes Dark Ruby Mild at 6%. Mild is thought of as the offspring of Porter, which brings us to Stout a word that used to mean "strong", the original names Porter (or Entire) and Stout-Porter (meaning a stronger porter) have become totally confused at least since the near extinction of the style in the 1960-70s.

I haven't mentioned the oldest of them all what is Beer and what is Ale? We all know I suppose that beer was originally ale with hops added but I have noticed a tendency nowadays for Ale to mean cask beers and beer to mean keg beers, some times beer is replaced by Lager. Lager of course is another confused term it's either a very pale, bottom fermented, delicately hopped beer which has been cold stored (laagered) for a long time or a mock Pilsner made by an international conglomerate in an huge brewery with questionable ingredients.

In short I think this is one of those "don't go there" subjects, mainly because everyone has a different opinion; often a fact free one.

When it comes to categories in beer competitions I take the view; "their game, their rules"

[Aqualung]

I am sure we have discussed this elsewhere though I couldn't find it and I know we struggle to define craft beer, and that some among us couldn't care on that subject ,but the general definition of beers across the board seems rather confused. there are many examples but what brought it to mind recently was reading through Old Boots thread and the results of the SIBA South East Area Beer Competition here (http://www.siba.co.uk/events/regional-competitions/south-east/2014-2). In the Best Bitter category we have Hammerpot Australian Pale and Whitstable East India Pale Ale, I haven't tried either of these but unless their names are misleading ,since when are pale ales best bitters? And in the Standard Bitters I have tried these and although I like this style of beer ,citrusy and hoppy, and I know some do not, I don't regard them as standard bitters. Any thoughts?

I doubt if it would be possible to devise a satisfactory categorisation that would fit everything. Go back nearly forty years when it was all "straightforward", two of CAMRA's standard bearing bitters were Young's Ordinary and Boddington's Bitter both of which could be described as Pale Ales. How about Old Ales? Surely that's simple enough a strong dark beer served from a cask on the bar? Not really! King and Barnes, Harvey's, Brakspear's and Adnam's all produced Old Ales under 4.5%.
It was left to the brewers further North to produce "proper" Old Ales, Robinson's Old Tom, Lees Moonraker, Marston's Owd Roger, Boddington's Strong and Theakston's Old Peculiar.

Best Bitter has for some reason become synonymous with so-called "boring brown bitters" which I can't say I agree with at all. Maybe a new category of New World Hopped beers would be helpful, but if you're defining by ABV then it's pointless.

[rpadam]

How about Old Ales? Surely that's simple enough a strong dark beer served from a cask on the bar? Not really! King and Barnes, Harvey's, Brakspear's and Adnam's all produced Old Ales under 4.5%.
It was left to the brewers further North to produce "proper" Old Ales, Robinson's Old Tom, Lees Moonraker, Marston's Owd Roger, Boddington's Strong and Theakston's Old Peculiar.
Sussex Old Ale (as still produced by Harveys) is a beer style in its own right, although it would probably also fit into a wider 'Dark Mild' category.

[Aqualung]

Sussex Old Ale (as still produced by Harveys) is a beer style in its own right, although it would probably also fit into a wider 'Dark Mild' category.

As is Adnam's Old which along with the defunct Brakspear's and K&B could have been described as Strong Milds, but I'm sure back in the day they were all lumped together as Old or Winter Ales. I don't recall there being any Porters until the new micros started in the late 70s, possibly Ringwood Porter would have been the first.

[Wittenden]

Sussex Old Ale (as still produced by Harveys) is a beer style in its own right, although it would probably also fit into a wider 'Dark Mild' category.
I'm not really too fussed by style definitions, but I do consider the southern dark 'uns as strong milds, as they are not-were they ever? "aged". Would a held over cask of Harvey's Old be better or worse than a "new" one.?
Aren't Golden Ales an extension of the Pale Ale/Bitter axis, originally developed to lure the lager drinker onto the true path?

[london calling]

As pointed out the brewers called it pale ale and the drinking public called it bitter. Pale as opposed to dark so the brown bitter would fit into that category. Also the two beers mentioned despite the hops or the location name would still be bitters here.Trying to pin beers down to a style now is impossible.I had a very good Hopcraft -To Much To Answer For 3.8 described as a Pennine light mild.But as fans of this brewer will know it was hoppy so really a bitter rather than a mild.

[Aqualung]

As pointed out the brewers called it pale ale and the drinking public called it bitter. Pale as opposed to dark so the brown bitter would fit into that category. Also the two beers mentioned despite the hops or the location name would still be bitters here.Trying to pin beers down to a style now is impossible.I had a very good Hopcraft -To Much To Answer For 3.8 described as a Pennine light mild.But as fans of this brewer will know it was hoppy so really a bitter rather than a mild.

That's the key issue, even nearly forty years ago there were anomalies, so with the thousands of beers now available what chance is there? One I forgot to mention was Marston's Merry Monk Mild which apparently was Pedigree with a load of caramel (or treacle) added. Marston's to me seem incapable of producing decent dark beers (Owd Roger excepted), but I still rate Pedigree (and the variations) as a good Burton Bitter despite the fact it can be found just about anywhere. It is certainly vastly superior to Bass IMO which is a shadow of the beer it was.
When Ye Olde Cheshire Cheese off Fleet St sold Pedigree they used to shift shed loads of the stuff.
I never bought into the Light Mild category. to me McMullen's AK was just a cooking bitter as was Taylor's Golden Best (albeit a vastly superior one).