American Pale Ale: Septic or Antiseptic Hops?

[Thuck Phat]

An increasing number of brewers appear to be trying their hands at American Pale Ale.

But what is an American Pale Ale? I'm not at all sure but would certainly be interested to know what people think, so all thoughts on what defines the style welcome here.

Which ones are any good? All thoughts on APAs tried, likeable or not, listed here.

I've tried a couple recently, one obvious and already popular, the other less so, so here goes:

Darkstar - American Pale Ale 4.7%: Needs little introduction, I thoroughly enjoy this one and so do many who try it.
Big Hand - Zeta 3.6%: A test brew from this Wrexham brewery which I found to be long on malt and short on hops and fun.

The Drinkable

Darkstar - American Pale Ale 4.7% (TP)

The Less Drinkable

Big Hand Zeta 3.6% (TP)

[Aqualung]

Surely there is little difference between IPA and APA? The Americans took the original genuine concept of an IPA and applied their own hops to it. I don't know this for sure, but I wouldn't mind betting that the Black IPA originated across the pond.

[Bucking Fastard]

Well these two lads didn't rate this APA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzbSn1KJCEY


I have much the same reaction to a lot of GK output,one for the "less drinkable" category ?

[Brewguru]

Surely there is little difference between IPA and APA? The Americans took the original genuine concept of an IPA and applied their own hops to it. I don't know this for sure, but I wouldn't mind betting that the Black IPA originated across the pond.

Think you just defined the APA. Strictly speaking an IPA, originating in this country, should only contain British hops or hops that were available to brewers in the 19th Century when the style was first brewed. I would hazard a guess that most of the new IPAs floating about currently are in effect APA or at least a bastard APA/IPA hybrid.

[Aqualung]

I would hazard a guess that most of the new IPAs floating about currently are in effect APA or at least a bastard APA/IPA hybrid.

I'm fairly sure you're right, I know NZ hops seem to be popular so a better label might be "New World IPA".

[Mobyduck]

Darkstar American Pale Ale is now a beer that I can luckily call a regular beer and is well up with my all time favourites.
The term"American Pale Ale " I fear Is now open to much abuse in the same way as "Craft Beer", both are a popular tag words and sales opportunity's . However one I tried that I would say is good,i.e I would buy it again, is Butcombe Great Grey Owl, only 3.6% and as such no competition to Darkstar's excellent beer, but very moreish all the same. Good.

[Bucking Fastard]

Looking at the 2014 GBG there seem to be 12 breweries producing an American Pale Ale or calling it APA

Blackedge
Bridestones
Dark Star
Hackney
Long Man
Portobello
Sonnet
Houston
Allendale
Hop Fuzz
TapEast
Windswept.

I am sure there must be other who dont use the American Pale Ale description in their beer name,Moby has already mentioned Butcombe Great Grey Owl.So it does appear to be a legitimate beer style ,increasing in popularity although I have not had many myself.Interested in hearing about any winners.

I suppose an APA should really be using EXCLUSIVELY American hops ,but I look forward to being educated.

[Mobyduck]

I suppose an APA should really be using EXCLUSIVELY American hops ,but I look forward to being educated.
That's what I would expect.

[Aqualung]

However one I tried that I would say is good,i.e I would buy it again, is Butcombe Great Grey Owl.

This was on the last Spoons guest list and for an owl that would normally fly under my radar, I also thought was excellent. I wasn't even aware when I tried it that it was described as an APA as given the ABV I just assumed it was a low ABV beer.


Looking at the 2014 GBG there seem to be 12 breweries producing an American Pale Ale or calling it APA

Blackedge
Bridestones
Dark Star
Hackney
Long Man
Portobello
Sonnet
Houston
Allendale
Hop Fuzz
TapEast
Windswept.



I've had three of those, Dark Star, Long Man and Portobello all of which were excellent when found in good condition, but the real contention is whether there is a valid difference to be made between an APA and an IPA other than an APA uses hops from just America, while an IPA can use a mix of hops which may all potentially be from different countries. The style of beer is identical if you ignore the historic abuse of the term by the likes of GK and others.

[london calling]

An increasing number of brewers appear to be trying their hands at American Pale Ale.

But what is an American Pale Ale? I'm not at all sure but would certainly be interested to know what people think, so all thoughts on what defines the style welcome here.

Which ones are any good? All thoughts on APAs tried, likeable or not, listed here.

I've tried a couple recently, one obvious and already popular, the other less so, so here goes:

Darkstar - American Pale Ale 4.7%: Needs little introduction, I thoroughly enjoy this one and so do many who try it.
Big Hand - Zeta 3.6%: A test brew from this Wrexham brewery which I found to be long on malt and short on hops and fun.

The Drinkable

Darkstar - American Pale Ale 4.7% (TP)

The Less Drinkable

Big Hand Zeta 3.6% (TP)

There are hundreds of Apa,s brewed in Britain but most don't call them the obvious name
I have had lots inc Darkstar-Clarence and Fredricks-Bridestones-Castle Rock and Red Squirrel all called American pale ale
these are less obvious
ST AUSTELL- PROPER JOB
SADLERS-HOP MONSTER
BRODIES -CITRA
DARKSTAR-GOLDEN GATE
ASCOT -POSH POOCH
MAGIC ROCK -HIGHWIRE

If it is pale and only has American hops its classed as APA.

[Aqualung]

There are hundreds of Apa,s brewed in Britain but most don't call them the obvious name
I have had lots inc Darkstar-Clarence and Fredricks-Bridestones-Castle Rock and Red Squirrel all called American pale ale
these are less obvious
ST AUSTELL- PROPER JOB
SADLERS-HOP MONSTER
BRODIES -CITRA
DARKSTAR-GOLDEN GATE
ASCOT -POSH POOCH
MAGIC ROCK -HIGHWIRE

If it is pale and only has American hops its classed as APA.

I was going to bring into the discussion that numerous Brodie's (and loads of other brewers) beers could be called IPA or APA, but are just called "pale" ales as I thought it would confuse the issue, but you are absolutely right! The trouble with the Pale Ale brand is that it could apply to just about anything that is lighter than (pale) orange.

[Bucking Fastard]

There are hundreds of Apa,s brewed in Britain but most don't call them the obvious name
I have had lots inc Darkstar-Clarence and Fredricks-Bridestones-Castle Rock and Red Squirrel all called American pale ale
these are less obvious
ST AUSTELL- PROPER JOB
SADLERS-HOP MONSTER
BRODIES -CITRA

DARKSTAR-GOLDEN GATE
ASCOT -POSH POOCH
MAGIC ROCK -HIGHWIRE

If it is pale and only has American hops its classed as APA.


That's interesting,I didn't realise that list of ales were brewed exclusively with American hops.

I agree that if it is pale and only has American hops it should be classed as an APA. By contrast most true IPA's seem to me to have a somewhat darker hue,so that could be another differentiator.

[Thuck Phat]

Some interesting points there. So the clue really is in the name: if it's pale and brewed with American hops then it's an APA. That sounds like enough to be an individual beer style even if it was inspired originally by the traditional IPA but clearly as brewers experiment with different hops there's bound to be some crossover I guess.

London Calling has brought light into my darkness about the beers which could be classed as an APA, even if not labelled as such, and perhaps this is a much larger 'beer category' than I thought.

I'm with BF on colour purely on experience. I've found the APA's which I've tried tend to be very pale - golden if you were to classify them, whereas most IPAs fall around midway between golden and traditional best bitter in colour.

Any other thoughts from the cognescenti are very welcome.

Two new ones for the list - and possibly a good few more if LC can remember which were Drinkable and which less so.
GK Yardbird - "tastes like cheap lager", "watery", "disgusting". Enough said!

The Drinkable

Darkstar - American Pale Ale 4.7% (TP)
Butcombe - Great Grey Owl 3.6% (MD)

The Less Drinkable

Big Hand Zeta 3.6% (TP)
Greene King - Yardbird 4% (BF by proxy)

[Mobyduck]

Caledonian- All American 4.1% , not at all drinkable.

[Aqualung]

Right, let's put aside the pedantic arguments! I nominate Portobello and Long Man APA's firmly in the GOOD category.

[london calling]

As 95% of the beers I drink are new to me and will probably not be tried again I find it hard to rate a beer on one sample.The really good ones are remembered and tried again.As Aqualung found recently at the George you can try 2 imo good beers but if they taste crap they taste crap.brewers, publicans, hot weather, cold weather can all spoil a decent beer.

[london calling]

Just to confuse the issue I had Twickenham-Yakima valley IBA today.So that's American brown ale.Too much rye for my liking and worst Twick beer I can remember drinking.But others will like it.

[Aqualung]

Just to confuse the issue I had Twickenham-Yakima valley IBA today.So that's American brown ale.Too much rye for my liking and worst Twick beer I can remember drinking.But others will like it.

I had a low ABV Black IPA today in superb condition and was absolutely astonished to find out who brewed it.
The silly thing is that they don't admit that it is a Black IPA presumably because that would be too edgy for their audience!

[Mobyduck]

As 95% of the beers I drink are new to me and will probably not be tried again I find it hard to rate a beer on one sample.The really good ones are remembered and tried again.As Aqualung found recently at the George you can try 2 imo good beers but if they taste crap they taste crap.brewers, publicans, hot weather, cold weather can all spoil a decent beer.
It doesn't matter matter what the beer or the brewer is ,any beer can be crap due to the wrong circumstances , but as with many things in life the cream will rise to the top and the truth will out. :confused:. I know what I mean but in my defence I have just been sampling some Darkstar Greenhopped IPA, not APA but bloody good. :drinkup:

[Aqualung]

It doesn't matter matter what the beer or the brewer is ,any beer can be crap due to the wrong circumstances , but as with many things in life the cream will rise to the top and the truth will out. :confused:. I know what I mean but in my defence I have just been sampling some Darkstar Greenhopped IPA, not APA but bloody good. :drinkup:

I know what you're saying! I had a pint of the Greenhopped IPA in the Croydon George today and thought it can't get better than this. It did when I bumped into a pint of the 12.9% O' Hanlon's Brewers Special Reserve in the Leyton William IV.

[london calling]

First drank the Green Hop Ipa in 2010 and was hooked.A beer I search for at this time of the year but its getting such a reputation its probably going to be harder to get.

[Mobyduck]

First drank the Green Hop Ipa in 2010 and was hooked.A beer I search for at this time of the year but its getting such a reputation its probably going to be harder to get.
Six barrels at my local, will probably be saved for weekends so at least three dodgy weekends coming up.

[Thuck Phat]

I've had 3 that LC mentioned recently without realising that they were APA's: St Austell Proper Job (my favourite of their beers), Sadlers Hop Monster and Magic Rock High Wire, which is described as a West Coast Pale Ale on their website. All were very drinkable so, unless there are objections, in they go.

The list:

The Drinkable

Darkstar - American Pale Ale 4.7% (TP)
Butcombe - Great Grey Owl 3.6% (MD)
Portobello - APA 5% (Aqua)
Long Man - APA 4.8% (Aqua)
St Austell - Proper Job 4.5% (LC)
Sadlers - Hop Monster 5% (LC)
Magic Rock - High Wire 5.5% (LC)

The Less Drinkable

Big Hand Zeta 3.6% (TP)
Greene King - Yardbird 4% (BF by proxy)
Caledonian - All American 4.1% (MD)

[Bucking Fastard]

One for the drinkable category,Tillingbourne Hop Troll.GBG and ratebeer have it described as an APA,so I assume it uses exclusively American hops.It slipped down easily,bitter but not overpowering.

[Thuck Phat]

A couple from me which seem to fit the description:
Church End - Fallen Angel: Definitely pale and brewed with American hops and certainly drinkable.
Blue Monkey - US Ape: Bottle conditioned and described as an American IPA style beer. Not as pale as some but still fits the bill and again drinkable.

The Drinkable

Darkstar - American Pale Ale 4.7% (TP)
Butcombe - Great Grey Owl 3.6% (MD)
Portobello - APA 5% (Aqua)
Long Man - APA 4.8% (Aqua)
St Austell - Proper Job 4.5% (LC)
Sadlers - Hop Monster 5% (LC)
Magic Rock - High Wire 5.5% (LC)
Tillingbourne - Hop Troll (BF)
Church End - Fallen Angel 5% (TP)
Blue Monkey - US Ape 7.5% (TP)

The Less Drinkable

Big Hand Zeta 3.6% (TP)
Greene King - Yardbird 4% (BF by proxy)
Caledonian - All American 4.1% (MD)

[Bucking Fastard]

It's probably just me,but I thought Portobello Ameican Pale Ale was really poor in the reliable George in Croydon.The dark orange colour was a surprise and the overly malty brew was quite difficult to quaff.The 5% strength was very evident ,but there was little hop character nor lasting bitterness.The fruit sensation mentioned in ratebeer reviews was just absent.I had to wash it down with a Dark Star American Pale Ale which as always was excellent.

[Mobyduck]

It's probably just me,but I thought Portobello Ameican Pale Ale was really poor in the reliable George in Croydon.The dark orange colour was a surprise and the overly malty brew was quite difficult to quaff.The 5% strength was very evident ,but there was little hop character nor lasting bitterness.The fruit sensation mentioned in ratebeer reviews was just absent.I had to wash it down with a Dark Star American Pale Ale which as always was excellent.
Only tried it once and have to say I agree, it didn't do a lot for me.

[london calling]

It's probably just me,but I thought Portobello Ameican Pale Ale was really poor in the reliable George in Croydon.The dark orange colour was a surprise and the overly malty brew was quite difficult to quaff.The 5% strength was very evident ,but there was little hop character nor lasting bitterness.The fruit sensation mentioned in ratebeer reviews was just absent.I had to wash it down with a Dark Star American Pale Ale which as always was excellent.

I have had it and thought it was the best beer they have brewed.Loads of hop flavour.I have noticed that hoppy beers can vary from batch to batch.Ihad Tiny Rebel-Billabong on Friday and was disappointed.Good but not great like I have had before.I actually demanded to see the manager of a Nicolsons pub and queried if he had put the wrong beer on a handpump as the Jaipur had little or no hops in it.A beer I have had when it was so hoppy I could hardly finish a pint. cheers john

[Aqualung]

It's probably just me,but I thought Portobello Ameican Pale Ale was really poor in the reliable George in Croydon.The dark orange colour was a surprise and the overly malty brew was quite difficult to quaff.The 5% strength was very evident ,but there was little hop character nor lasting bitterness.The fruit sensation mentioned in ratebeer reviews was just absent.I had to wash it down with a Dark Star American Pale Ale which as always was excellent.

I haven't seen this for a while but I think they are a top brewer judging by recent examples of their Apache IPA and VPA. The George isn't infallible as I had a fairly indifferent pint of an Oakham beer there last summer. Maybe you just caught the tail end of the cask.

[Thuck Phat]

The Drinkable

Darkstar - American Pale Ale 4.7% (TP)
Butcombe - Great Grey Owl 3.6% (MD)
Portobello - APA 5% (Aqua)
Long Man - APA 4.8% (Aqua)
St Austell - Proper Job 4.5% (LC)
Sadlers - Hop Monster 5% (LC)
Magic Rock - High Wire 5.5% (LC)
Tillingbourne - Hop Troll (BF)
Church End - Fallen Angel 5% (TP)
Blue Monkey - US Ape 7.5% (TP)

The Less Drinkable

Big Hand Zeta 3.6% (TP)
Greene King - Yardbird 4% (BF by proxy)
Caledonian - All American 4.1% (MD)
Portobello - American Pale Ale 5% (BF, MD)

[ROBCamra]

I have had it and thought it was the best beer they have brewed.Loads of hop flavour.I have noticed that hoppy beers can vary from batch to batch.Ihad Tiny Rebel-Billabong on Friday and was disappointed.Good but not great like I have had before.I actually demanded to see the manager of a Nicolsons pub and queried if he had put the wrong beer on a handpump as the Jaipur had little or no hops in it.A beer I have had when it was so hoppy I could hardly finish a pint. cheers john

As soon as you open a bag of hops they start to deteriorate, just like other green stuff. If the bag of hops isn't used quickly, which may well happen at smaller breweries, they lose potency.

The brewer should compensate for this by adding more hops as they get further down the bag. A lot don't as they just follow the measurements from a previous recipe recorded in the brew log.

I suspect that you got a "bottom of the bag" brew.

[Bucking Fastard]

According to the blurb on the website Burning Sky Aurora is made using American hops and described as a Pale Ale so I would suggest it for the "Drinkable "list,very drinkable but a bit too pokey to spend the whole night on,although I do know some people who may try :nishelypished:

[Thuck Phat]

The Drinkable

Darkstar - American Pale Ale 4.7% (TP)
Butcombe - Great Grey Owl 3.6% (MD)
Portobello - APA 5% (Aqua)
Long Man - APA 4.8% (Aqua)
St Austell - Proper Job 4.5% (LC)
Sadlers - Hop Monster 5% (LC)
Magic Rock - High Wire 5.5% (LC)
Tillingbourne - Hop Troll (BF)
Church End - Fallen Angel 5% (TP)
Blue Monkey - US Ape 7.5% (TP)
Burning Sky - Aurora (BF)
Hop Fuzz - Old American Pale 4.2% (Wit)

The Less Drinkable

Big Hand Zeta 3.6% (TP)
Greene King - Yardbird 4% (BF by proxy)
Caledonian - All American 4.1% (MD)
Portobello - American Pale Ale 5% (BF, MD)

[Wittenden]

I found Hop Fuzz-Old American Pale 4.2%abv highly drinkable yesterday,could well have had another.

[Thuck Phat]

I found Hop Fuzz-Old American Pale 4.2%abv highly drinkable yesterday,could well have had another.

Updated above.

[Mobyduck]

Hackney Brewery American Pale Ale 4.5%, not the best out there but quite drinkable all the same.

[Aqualung]

I would like to add Milestone American Pale Ale to the Less Drinkable category. If this beer is an APA then I'm an Aborigine.
Having tried it soon after the excellent ELB Cowcatcher I can assure you that it is nothing more than a boring standard pale 4.8% beer. I have no faith in this brewer at all.

[Mobyduck]

I'm an Aborigine.
Can you play the didgeridoo? :evilgrin:

[Aqualung]

Can you play the didgeridoo? :evilgrin:



1117

[Mobyduck]

1117
Ha Ha Ha.

[london calling]

I would like to add Milestone American Pale Ale to the Less Drinkable category. If this beer is an APA then I'm an Aborigine.
Having tried it soon after the excellent ELB Cowcatcher I can assure you that it is nothing more than a boring standard pale 4.8% beer. I have no faith in this brewer at all.
I usually avoid Milestone beers.The Bree Louise has them on everytime I visit.

[Bucking Fastard]

I usually avoid Milestone beers.The Bree Louise has them on everytime I visit.

I agree ,their ales never really suited for me.Also easy to get them mixed up with Millstone which IMHO is a pretty decent brewer.

[london calling]

I agree ,their ales never really suited for me.Also easy to get them mixed up with Millstone which IMHO is a pretty decent brewer.

Yes its easy to confuse these brewers but not the taste of the beers.Millstone -Tiger Rut is decent but True Grit is a top beer imo.

[Thuck Phat]

I couldn't agree more with the comments above re Milestone and Millstone. Milestone beers seem to show up in 'spoons fairly regularly.

Update:

The Drinkable

Blue Monkey - US Ape 7.5% (TP)
Burning Sky - Aurora (BF)
Butcombe - Great Grey Owl 3.6% (MD)
Church End - Fallen Angel 5% (TP)
Darkstar - American Pale Ale 4.7% (TP)
Hackney Brewery - Pale Ale 4.5% (MD)
Hop Fuzz - Old American Pale 4.2% (Wit)
Long Man - APA 4.8% (Aqua)
Magic Rock - High Wire 5.5% (LC)
Portobello - APA 5% (Aqua)
Sadlers - Hop Monster 5% (LC)
St Austell - Proper Job 4.5% (LC)
Tillingbourne - Hop Troll (BF)

The Less Drinkable

Big Hand - Zeta 3.6% (TP)
Caledonian - All American 4.1% (MD)
Greene King - Yardbird 4% (BF by proxy)
Milestone - American Pale Ale 4.6% (Aqua)
Portobello - American Pale Ale 5% (BF, MD)

[aleandhearty]

I usually avoid Milestone beers.The Bree Louise has them on everytime I visit.


I agree ,their ales never really suited for me.Also easy to get them mixed up with Millstone which IMHO is a pretty decent brewer.

Have to admit I used to get Millstone and Milestone mixed up, quite a lot. Plus, Phoenix and Pictish, even though they sound nothing alike.

By sheer coincidence, I tried the Milestone Sao Paolo Porter, in The Hop, Wakefield, yesterday afternoon. The barman waited until I'd finished then asked me what I thought of it. In all honesty, I didn't like it much, thinking it had unsettling savoury notes of Marmite and cheese. The barman told me that several punters had thought it very odd, with one even picking up hints of mint! They're obviously just one of those brewers. (See also Cottage and Brentwood).

[Aqualung]

They're obviously just one of those brewers. (See also Cottage and Brentwood).

I wouldn't put Brentwood in the same category as Milestone and most definitely not Cottage. They supply Locale beers to the Chingford Spoons and while ELB (Pale excepted) and most Portobello beers are better they aren't that bad. The Best is just an imitation of Courage Best and their Winter Warmer is a bit odd as it isn't dark or strong. Their Summer Virgin tried recently was pleasant enough and their Marvelous Maple Mild nearly made it to BOTW. They have an "experimental" wing now called Elephant's School. I've only tried two of these but they were OK.
Over the Festive period their were at least four seasonal beers from Milestone in the William that they struggled to sell. They all looked and tasted the same, dark and very mediocre.

[aleandhearty]

I wouldn't put Brentwood in the same category as Milestone and most definitely not Cottage. .. their Marvelous Maple Mild nearly made it to BOTW.

Mmm. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I've never come across a Brentwood beer I like yet. I remember when you waxed lyrical about the Maple Mild, because I thought it really disappointing. The only Cottage beer that's done anything for me recently was their Junga and remember writing at the time something along the lines of Cottage in tasty beer shock, horror!

Being generous, with Cottage based in Somerset and Brentwood in Essex, it may be their beers don't travel too well, but other breweries seem to manage just fine. Also, I guess, there's the manner of dispense. I'm not even going to mention the 'S'-word, as I don't want to get Quinno into a lather (again :D). Finally, we're blessed with so many breweries up here, I think we're spoilt for choice and anything that's not up to snuff just fails in comparison.

[Mobyduck]

Mmm. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I've never come across a Brentwood beer I like yet. I remember when you waxed lyrical about the Maple Mild, because I thought it really disappointing. The only Cottage beer that's done anything for me recently was their Junga and remember writing at the time something along the lines of Cottage in tasty beer shock, horror!

Being generous, with Cottage based in Somerset and Brentwood in Essex, it may be their beers don't travel too well, but other breweries seem to manage just fine. Also, I guess, there's the manner of dispense. I'm not even going to mention the 'S'-word, as I don't want to get Quinno into a lather (again :D). Finally, we're blessed with so many breweries up here, I think we're spoilt for choice and anything that's not up to snuff just fails in comparison.
I don't recall ever having a Brentwood beer but have had quite a few from Cottage , initially I thought their beers were OK, but over the last 4 or 5 years felt they had gone downhill, to be fair I haven't tried any in the last year.

[Al 10000]

I asked for a weaker beer in the Old Red Lion Kennington on Saturday,i could not see what was on the handpumps because a crowd of people were near them,
the friendly landlord then offered me a taster of Cottage Sticky Wicket,it tasted crap,i then had the chance to see the pumps and i asked for a taster of Twickenham Naked ladies which was really nice so i opted for that.

[Mobyduck]

I don't recall ever having a Brentwood beer but have had quite a few from Cottage , initially I thought their beers were OK, but over the last 4 or 5 years felt they had gone downhill, to be fair I haven't tried any in the last year.
I tell a lie, I had a pint of Cottage -Battle of the Blues here (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/24079/) in April, (Al's post above reminded me) and from my sometimes sketchy memory I think it was half decent.

[london calling]

I asked for a weaker beer in the Old Red Lion Kennington on Saturday,i could not see what was on the handpumps because a crowd of people were near them,
the friendly landlord then offered me a taster of Cottage Sticky Wicket,it tasted crap,i then had the chance to see the pumps and i asked for a taster of Twickenham Naked ladies which was really nice so i opted for that.

I was in the same pub last Christmas and speaking to the manager mentioned that Cottage was probably the worst brewer in the country.He agree and said he was going to stop getting their beer but on 2 recent visits and yours and Moby,s they are still selling Cottage.Cheap beer at any cost it seems.

[Thuck Phat]

I was in the same pub last Christmas and speaking to the manager mentioned that Cottage was probably the worst brewer in the country.He agree and said he was going to stop getting their beer but on 2 recent visits and yours and Moby,s they are still selling Cottage.Cheap beer at any cost it seems.

There are probably quite a few candidates for that title. Aside from the obvious I'd nominate the Warwickshire Beer Company. I don't believe that they brew an APA so perhaps there's a whole new thread there.

[Mobyduck]

I found Langhams Arapaho very drinkable, it does more than punch its 4.9% weight, it isnt a particularly pale beer, in fact in the brewers discription they call it a deep, deep gold American Pale Ale, anyhow its very good and worthy of entry into the drinkable category.

[Brewguru]

I wouldn't put Brentwood in the same category as Milestone and most definitely not Cottage. They supply Locale beers to the Chingford Spoons and while ELB (Pale excepted) and most Portobello beers are better they aren't that bad. The Best is just an imitation of Courage Best and their Winter Warmer is a bit odd as it isn't dark or strong. Their Summer Virgin tried recently was pleasant enough and their Marvelous Maple Mild nearly made it to BOTW. They have an "experimental" wing now called Elephant's School. I've only tried two of these but they were OK.
Over the Festive period their were at least four seasonal beers from Milestone in the William that they struggled to sell. They all looked and tasted the same, dark and very mediocre.

Came across an Elephant training school beer - Oddsnsods, a dark 4.3% bitter. Whilst drinkable and having a decent amount of aroma hops in it I would go with your opinion - OK. It smacks a bit of jumping onto the "craft" bandwagon, it was over bitter and a bit thin. Other brewers around here are doing more of this sort of thing as well, both Glastonbury Ales and Cheddar ales are launching new "craft" ranges.
As for Cottage being in Somerset I despair when I come across their beers. Many of the decent pubs refuse to stock their beers as they are so unreliable in quality - you get what you pay for there and pubs that are stocking it are normally buying it ridiculously cheaply.
Further in this thread (definitely getting off topic now) I don't believe that nowadays beer doesn't travel well. Most dealers and wholesalers have invested in cold storage facilities. I have heard that Cottage tend to deliver their beer themselves though.

[london calling]

I think Brentwood beers are mostly dull.I have come across Elephant School beers but have not tried them because they are really Brentwood beers.Glastonbury are another dull brewer but the craft range with different pumpclips on at the Cask pub and Kitchen were a lot better but also a lot dearer.Cheddar are a good brewery and I like their beers a lot but until now a very limited range so a craft range sounds good to me.
Incidentally Glastonbury get one of my bad taste awards for a beer they did called Fuck my Boots 5.0

[Mobyduck]

Incidentally Glastonbury get one of my bad taste awards for a beer they did called Fuck my Boots 5.0
Did you mean bad taste for the beer or the name? I find the name quite amusing,then again I am easily amused.

[Mobyduck]

One I found less drinkable today at the GBBF was Ole Slewfoot Citraville APA, didn't do for me what the name suggested. (To me).

[Thuck Phat]

Update:

The Drinkable

Blue Monkey - US Ape 7.5% (TP)
Burning Sky - Aurora (BF)
Butcombe - Great Grey Owl 3.6% (MD)
Church End - Fallen Angel 5% (TP)
Darkstar - American Pale Ale 4.7% (TP)
Dickensian - Nicholas Nickelbeer 4.4% (Aqua)
Hackney Brewery - Pale Ale 4.5% (MD)
Hop Fuzz - Old American Pale 4.2% (Wit)
Langhams - Arapaho 4.9% (MD)
Long Man - APA 4.8% (Aqua)
Magic Rock - High Wire 5.5% (LC)
Portobello - APA 5% (Aqua)
Sadlers - Hop Monster 5% (LC)
St Austell - Proper Job 4.5% (LC)
Tillingbourne - Hop Troll (BF)

The Less Drinkable

Big Hand - Zeta 3.6% (TP)
Caledonian - All American 4.1% (MD)
Greene King - Yardbird 4% (BF by proxy)
Milestone - American Pale Ale 4.6% (Aqua)
Ole Slewfoot - Citraville APA 3.9% (MD)
Portobello - American Pale Ale 5% (BF, MD)

[Aqualung]

One for the drinkable

Dickensian Nicholas Nicklebeer 4.4%

It's a low ABV one but has all the New World hop flavour you would expect.

[Thuck Phat]

One for the drinkable

Dickensian Nicholas Nicklebeer 4.4%

It's a low ABV one but has all the New World hop flavour you would expect.

Clever name. Updated above.

[Mobyduck]

One I assumed was on the list but when I checked, wasn't,
East London Brewing Company - Cowcatcher 4.8%. Very drinkable indeed.

[Aqualung]

One I assumed was on the list but when I checked, wasn't,
East London Brewing Company - Cowcatcher 4.8%. Very drinkable indeed.
Agreed and I should have spotted that one was missing.

I've one to add and that is XT XPA 5.9%. A brewery I'd never even heard of before but they've nailed this beer. They've gone down the Led Zeppelin route for naming most of their beers, XT 1, XT 2, XT 3 etc.....

[Mobyduck]

Agreed and I should have spotted that one was missing.

I've one to add and that is XT XPA 5.9%. A brewery I'd never even heard of before but they've nailed this beer. They've gone down the Led Zeppelin route for naming most of their beers, XT 1, XT 2, XT 3 etc.....
Had several XT beers now,can't remember what numbers,they have all been decent without being particularly stunning , though not tried the XPA.

[ROBCamra]

They've gone down the Led Zeppelin route for naming most of their beers, XT 1, XT 2, XT 3 etc.....

XT Houses Of The Holy? :p

[Aqualung]

XT Houses Of The Holy? :p

That joke went in through the out door.

[Thuck Phat]

Agreed and I should have spotted that one was missing.

I've one to add and that is XT XPA 5.9%. A brewery I'd never even heard of before but they've nailed this beer. They've gone down the Led Zeppelin route for naming most of their beers, XT 1, XT 2, XT 3 etc.....

I couldn't agree more with that having tried it here (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/20418/) which I think is their first boozer.

Updated for both the above.

The Drinkable

Blue Monkey - US Ape 7.5% (TP)
Burning Sky - Aurora (BF)
Butcombe - Great Grey Owl 3.6% (MD)
By The Horns - Bison APA 4.8% (Aqua)
Church End - Fallen Angel 5% (TP)
Darkstar - American Pale Ale 4.7% (TP)
Dickensian - Nicholas Nickelbeer 4.4% (Aqua)
East London Brewing Company - Cowcatcher 4.8% (MD)
Firefly - American Pale 4.2% (MD)
Hackney Brewery - Pale Ale 4.5% (MD)
Hop Fuzz - Old American Pale 4.2% (Wit)
Langhams - Arapaho 4.9% (MD)
Long Man - APA 4.8% (Aqua)
Magic Rock - High Wire 5.5% (LC)
Portobello - APA 5% (Aqua)
Sadlers - Hop Monster 5% (LC)
St Austell - Proper Job 4.5% (LC)
Tillingbourne - Hop Troll (BF)
XT - XPA 5.9% (Aqua)

The Less Drinkable

Big Hand - Zeta 3.6% (TP)
Caledonian - All American 4.1% (MD)
Greene King - Yardbird 4% (BF by proxy)
Milestone - American Pale Ale 4.6% (Aqua)
Ole Slewfoot - Citraville APA 3.9% (MD)
Portobello - American Pale Ale 5% (BF, MD)

[Mobyduck]

One for the list.
Firefly - American Pale 4.2%
Very dry but quite drinkable.

[Thuck Phat]

One for the list.
Firefly - American Pale 4.2%
Very dry but quite drinkable.

Updated above

[Aqualung]

A London one for the drinkable
By The Horns Bison APA 4.8%

I'm not entirely convinced by this brewer but this one seemed better than their usual offerings.

[Thuck Phat]

A London one for the drinkable
By The Horns Bison APA 4.8%

I'm not entirely convinced by this brewer but this one seemed better than their usual offerings.

Updated above.

[Mobyduck]

Had a very drinkable A.P.A. at a mini beer festival here (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/35750/) tonight, Otley - American Pale Ale 4.3%, very nice.

[Thuck Phat]

Updated:

The Drinkable

Blue Monkey - US Ape 7.5% (TP)
Burning Sky - Aurora (BF)
Butcombe - Great Grey Owl 3.6% (MD)
By The Horns - Bison APA 4.8% (Aqua)
Church End - Fallen Angel 5% (TP)
Darkstar - American Pale Ale 4.7% (TP)
Darkstar - Revelation 5.7% (Aqua, LC)
Dickensian - Nicholas Nickelbeer 4.4% (Aqua)
East London Brewing Company - Cowcatcher 4.8% (MD)
Firefly - American Pale 4.2% (MD)
Hackney Brewery - Pale Ale 4.5% (MD)
Hop Fuzz - Old American Pale 4.2% (Wit)
Langhams - Arapaho 4.9% (MD)
Long Man - APA 4.8% (Aqua)
Magic Rock - High Wire 5.5% (LC)
Otley - American Pale Ale 4.3% (MD)
Portobello - APA 5% (Aqua)
Sadlers - Hop Monster 5% (LC)
St Austell - Proper Job 4.5% (LC)
Tillingbourne - Hop Troll (BF)
Two Thirsty Brewers - American IPA 4.7% (Aqua)
Tonbridge - Union Pale 4.7% (Wit)
XT - XPA 5.9% (Aqua)

The Less Drinkable

Big Hand - Zeta 3.6% (TP)
Caledonian - All American 4.1% (MD)
Greene King - Yardbird 4% (BF by proxy)
Milestone - American Pale Ale 4.6% (Aqua)
Ole Slewfoot - Citraville APA 3.9% (MD)
Portobello - American Pale Ale 5% (BF, MD)

[Wittenden]

Updated:

The Drinkable

Blue Monkey - US Ape 7.5% (TP)
Burning Sky - Aurora (BF)
Butcombe - Great Grey Owl 3.6% (MD)
By The Horns - Bison APA 4.8% (Aqua)
Church End - Fallen Angel 5% (TP)
Darkstar - American Pale Ale 4.7% (TP)
Dickensian - Nicholas Nickelbeer 4.4% (Aqua)
East London Brewing Company - Cowcatcher 4.8% (MD)
Firefly - American Pale 4.2% (MD)
Hackney Brewery - Pale Ale 4.5% (MD)
Hop Fuzz - Old American Pale 4.2% (Wit)
Langhams - Arapaho 4.9% (MD)
Long Man - APA 4.8% (Aqua)
Magic Rock - High Wire 5.5% (LC)
Otley - American Pale Ale 4.3% (MD)
Portobello - APA 5% (Aqua)
Sadlers - Hop Monster 5% (LC)
St Austell - Proper Job 4.5% (LC)
Tillingbourne - Hop Troll (BF)
XT - XPA 5.9% (Aqua)

The Less Drinkable

Big Hand - Zeta 3.6% (TP)
Caledonian - All American 4.1% (MD)
Greene King - Yardbird 4% (BF by proxy)
Milestone - American Pale Ale 4.6% (Aqua)
Ole Slewfoot - Citraville APA 3.9% (MD)
Portobello - American Pale Ale 5% (BF, MD)


Thanks for reminding me: (highly) drinkable-Tonbridge 'Union Pale' 4.7%abv

[Aqualung]

I have one for the good :-
Two Thirsty Brewers American IPA 4.7%.
I understand it is actually a Cradock's beer but I'll stay with what the pump clip said. I came across it in the excellent Cradock's Duke William in Stourbridge.

[Thuck Phat]

Updated.


I have one for the good :-
Two Thirsty Brewers American IPA 4.7%.

APA or IPA?

[Aqualung]

Updated.



APA or IPA?

That did cross my mind but the fact that the word American is in the title drove me to nominate it here. For me the APAs are just a subset of IPAs anyway.

[Mobyduck]

Updated.



APA or IPA?

By title its an IPA.

[Thuck Phat]

That did cross my mind but the fact that the word American is in the title drove me to nominate it here. For me the APAs are just a subset of IPAs anyway.

Updated.

[Aqualung]

One very much for the good Southwark Brewing Company Harvard APA 5.5%. I had the tail end of the cask for one of their brews at the Spoons London Fest last winter but this one impressed at the Wild Card Bank Holiday festival.

[Bucking Fastard]

One for the drinkable

Hopcraft Sharks Against Surfers

Up against some very strong competition in the Southampton Arms,this quickly became the object of some heavy drinking by a fussy crew.

[Mobyduck]

One for the drinkable

Hopcraft Sharks Against Surfers

Up against some very strong competition in the Southampton Arms,this quickly became the object of some heavy drinking by a fussy crew.

I had this in the Southampton Arms Saturday, quite nice.

[Thuck Phat]

Updated for a new page to include the gloriously named Sharks Against Surfers:

The Drinkable

Blue Monkey - US Ape 7.5% (TP)
Burning Sky - Aurora (BF)
Butcombe - Great Grey Owl 3.6% (MD)
By The Horns - Bison APA 4.8% (Aqua)
Church End - Fallen Angel 5% (TP)
Darkstar - American Pale Ale 4.7% (TP)
Darkstar - Revelation 5.7% (Aqua, LC)
Deya - Steady Rolling Man 5% (TP)
Dickensian - Nicholas Nickelbeer 4.4% (Aqua)
East London Brewing Company - Cowcatcher 4.8% (MD)
Firefly - American Pale 4.2% (MD)
Hackney Brewery - Pale Ale 4.5% (MD)
Hopcraft - Sharks Against Surfers 4.8% (BF)
Hop Fuzz - Old American Pale 4.2% (Wit)
Langhams - Arapaho 4.9% (MD)
Long Man - APA 4.8% (Aqua)
Mad Squirrel - APA 4.7% (TP)
Magic Rock - High Wire 5.5% (LC)
Old Dairy - Cattle Shed APA 4.5% (Wit)
Otley - American Pale Ale 4.3% (MD)
Portobello - APA 5% (Aqua)
Redwillow - Sleepless 5.4% (Amber) (Aqua)
Sadlers - Hop Monster 5% (LC)
Southwark Brewing Company - Harvard APA 5.5% (Aqua)
St Austell - Proper Job 4.5% (LC)
Tillingbourne - Hop Troll (BF)
Tonbridge - Union Pale 4.7% (Wit)

The Less Drinkable

Big Hand - Zeta 3.6% (TP)
Caledonian - All American 4.1% (MD)
Greene King - Yardbird 4% (BF by proxy)
Milestone - American Pale Ale 4.6% (Aqua)
Ole Slewfoot - Citraville APA 3.9% (MD)
Portobello - American Pale Ale 5% (BF, MD)

[Aqualung]

I'd like to add Redwillow Sleepless (5.4%) to the Drinkable although it says it's an American Amber Ale. There's a Black IPA and that is allowed!

[Thuck Phat]

Updated and a couple of the American IPA's shifted to the IPA thread.

[Aqualung]

Following earlier discussion about Portobello APA, I tried it today in my local Spoons. It's now 4.8% ABV and was pale.
I thought it was reasonably good, certainly not a classic but to group it with GK Yardbird or the Milestone beer is being very harsh.

[Mobyduck]

Following earlier discussion about Portobello APA, I tried it today in my local Spoons. It's now 4.8% ABV and was pale.
I thought it was reasonably good, certainly not a classic but to group it with GK Yardbird or the Milestone beer is being very harsh.
Agreed but It was very poor when I tried it , not tried since though. I was initially quite keen on this brewery ,but have found in my experience the quality hasn't held up, having said that my last pint 30 mins ago was Portobello Blonde, it was OK but didn't blow me away in any shape or form.

[Aqualung]

Agreed but It was very poor when I tried it , not tried since though. I was initially quite keen on this brewery ,but have found in my experience the quality hasn't held up, having said that my last pint 30 mins ago was Portobello Blonde, it was OK but didn't blow me away in any shape or form.

I have exactly the same feeling about them. I'd like to try their VPA again which would be a good test. I thought their Northern Line Stout was pretty good but not outstanding. I think their beers are generally better than Truman's, but I suspect they are both on the same path.

[Wittenden]

Old Dairy going edgy: Cattle Shed APA 4.5%. Surprisingly drinkable.

[Thuck Phat]

Updated.

[Thuck Phat]

Mad Squirrel APA 4.7%. From the experimental brand of Red Squirrel and definitely drinkable.

[Thuck Phat]

Deya Steady Rolling Man at 5.2% for Drinkable as seen in BOTW.

An update for the new page:

The Drinkable

Blue Monkey - US Ape 7.5% (TP)
Brodie's - Black APA 5% (Aqua)
Burning Sky - Aurora (BF)
Butcombe - Great Grey Owl 3.6% (MD)
By The Horns - Bison APA 4.8% (Aqua)
Church End - Fallen Angel 5% (TP)
Darkstar - American Pale Ale 4.7% (TP)
Darkstar - Revelation 5.7% (Aqua, LC)
Deya - Steady Rolling Man 5.2% (TP)
Dickensian - Nicholas Nickelbeer 4.4% (Aqua)
East London Brewing Company - Cowcatcher 4.8% (MD)
Firefly - American Pale 4.2% (MD)
Hackney Brewery - Pale Ale 4.5% (MD)
Hopcraft - Sharks Against Surfers 4.8% (BF)
Hop Fuzz - Old American Pale 4.2% (Wit)
Kent - Brewers Reserve 5% (Wit)
Kent - Prohibition APA 4.8% (Aqua)
Langhams - Arapaho 4.9% (MD)
Lagunitas - Born Yesterday 7.2% (keg) (MD)
Long Man - APA 4.8% (Aqua)
Mad Squirrel - APA 4.7% (TP)
Magic Rock - High Wire 5.5% (LC)
Marble - Built to Fall 5.9% (BF)
Old Dairy - Cattle Shed APA 4.5% (Wit)
Otley - American Pale Ale 4.3% (MD)
Portobello - APA 5% (Aqua)
Redwillow - Sleepless 5.4% (Amber) (Aqua)
Sadlers - Hop Monster 5% (LC)
Southwark Brewing Company - Harvard APA 5.5% (Aqua)
St Austell - Proper Job 4.5% (LC)
Tring - Pale +Four 4.6% (BF)
Tillingbourne - Hop Troll (BF)
Tonbridge - Union Pale 4.7% (Wit)
Wild Weather - Serendipity APA 3.9% (MD)

The Less Drinkable

Big Hand - Zeta 3.6% (TP)
Caledonian - All American 4.1% (MD)
Greene King - Yardbird 4% (BF by proxy)
Milestone - American Pale Ale 4.6% (Aqua)
Ole Slewfoot - Citraville APA 3.9% (MD)
Portobello - American Pale Ale 5% (BF, MD)

[Aqualung]

A drinkable local one Brodie's Black APA (5.0%). On cask for £2.75 at their William IV pub in Leyton.

[Mobyduck]

Lagunitas Born Yesterday 7.5% (keg), extremely drinkable.

[Aqualung]

An excellent one from my favourite Kent brewery tried at the Tankerton Arms micropub in Whitstable:-
Kent Prohibition APA 4.8%

[Bucking Fastard]

A fantastic one .

Marble Built to Fall with Simcoe,Centennial,Southern Cross,Rakau and Chinook hops .Yum.

[Bucking Fastard]

A very good one

Tring Pale + Four with Simcoe,Citra,Amarillo and Galaxy.

Well done to this much improved brewer.

[Wittenden]

I was very impressed by Kent Brewery Brewers Reserve , an approachable heavyweight (by my modest standards).Not sure what hops were used, as KB's new website isn't as communicative as previously. I usen't to like their beer, but recent examples have won me over, and as things stand,they could well be producers of my Beer of the Year.

[Mobyduck]

Wild Weather Serendipity American Pale Ale, very sessionable at only 3.9% but has a massive and enjoyable Hop hit, this brewery seem to be back on form.