Pieminster EC1N - to add or not to add?

[Quinno]

http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant_Review-g186338-d3350991-Reviews-Pieminister-London_England.html

I popped in here today for a pie and there were some keg beers available as well as some Bristol Beer Factory bottles.

Increasingly the lines between pubs and restaurants are getting blurred and this one sits nicely in the middle. Should it be added...?

The pie was very nice by the way :D

[Mobyduck]

http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant_Review-g186338-d3350991-Reviews-Pieminister-London_England.html

I popped in here today for a pie and there were some keg beers available as well as some Bristol Beer Factory bottles.

Increasingly the lines between pubs and restaurants are getting blurred and this one sits nicely in the middle. Should it be added...?

The pie was very nice by the way :D
My initial thought was no its not a pub , maybe the site should become Pubs and Restaurants Galore :eek:. Then I got to thinking about this place (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/61601/) which definitely should be on the site. So the answer is :confused:.

[Maldenman]

The bottom line for me is whether you can just pop in for a beer or are you expected to order a pie? If it is the former then fair enough, it should be added.

[NickDavies]

The bottom line for me is whether you can just pop in for a beer or are you expected to order a pie? If it is the former then fair enough, it should be added.

Agreed, though that line is blurred. There are plenty of places where you can just pop in for a beer but they'll be sniffy about it and you might well have to stand by the bog door or go out in the rain to drink it. Some nominally mainstream pubs are like it Sunday lunchtimes these days.

[Mobyduck]

There are plenty of places where you can just pop in for a beer but they'll be sniffy about it and you might well have to stand by the bog door or go out in the rain to drink it. Some nominally mainstream pubs are like it Sunday lunchtimes these days.
Wouldn't give these pubs the time of day.

[Maldenman]

Agreed, though that line is blurred. There are plenty of places where you can just pop in for a beer but they'll be sniffy about it and you might well have to stand by the bog door or go out in the rain to drink it. Some nominally mainstream pubs are like it Sunday lunchtimes these days.

I agree without a doubt but that line is still there and for me is the marker. I'm sure if I walked into my local Indian and said no food today I'll just have a bottle of Cobra thanks that there would be a problem. There's been the debate on here about La Tascas on and off, they remain because it seems in some branches at least you can go in and just drink.

[Mobyduck]

End of the day , is it a pub or not . TGI Fridays, La tascas ,even Slug and Lettuce , in my book not pubs as in my understanding of the term, yes they sell beer ,but they're not pubs(to me) so for me they shouldn't on the site.

[Al 10000]

End of the day , is it a pub or not . TGI Fridays, La tascas ,even Slug and Lettuce , in my book not pubs as in my understanding of the term, yes they sell beer ,but they're not pubs(to me) so for me they shouldn't on the site.

I agree with you on This Moby but the Slug and Lettuces are more drinker friendly.

If you push for the deletion of TGI Fridays and La Taskas you might get more trouble than you bargained for.

[Aqualung]

End of the day , is it a pub or not . TGI Fridays, La tascas ,even Slug and Lettuce , in my book not pubs as in my understanding of the term, yes they sell beer ,but they're not pubs(to me) so for me they shouldn't on the site.

I don't recall ever visiting any of these establishments and can't see me doing so any time soon, so it really doesn't bother me whether they are included on the site. I got dragged kicking and screaming into a Harvester a few months back and that didn't really strike me as being a pub despite them advertising a pub quiz.

As a principle I would have thought it better to include doubtful cases rather than exclude them. If MacDonalds or KFC ever started selling booze then I might change my mind!

[london calling]

TGI Fridays is def a bar where you can have a drink only.

[Farway]

Seems like a re run of what is a pub. But a telling posting was one [name forgotten, sorry] that if in doubt list, you may one day need a beer whilst ma in law wants cup of tea & a bit of cake [or pie in this case].

Hence the La Tascas, Cafe Rouge etc, they do no harm on here IMO, and for the purists maybe CAMRA has an offering? [No idea, not a member]

[Rex_Rattus]

Hence the La Tascas, Cafe Rouge etc, they do harm on here IMO, and for the purists maybe CAMRA has an offering? [No idea, not a member]

For what it's worth, CAMRA's definition is similar to PuG's - no need to buy food, nor pay entrance fee usually, etc, but must do beer from cask or keg on tap or handpump. Places that do bottled beers only don't count as pubs.

But I say if it meets the previously stated PuG definition then put it on if you want, and don't if you don't want to. Personally I would only put one of the "La Tasca class" establishments on if I had gone in and bought a drink and had something to say about it.

[Strongers]

I think RR has summed it up perfectly!
If you can buy an alcoholic beverage with no strings attached and have a comment to make about the place why not add it?

I didn’t add this Café Rouge (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/73916/), but decided to comment as it was already on the site.

[Aqualung]

Hence the La Tascas, Cafe Rouge etc, they do harm on here IMO, and for the purists maybe CAMRA has an offering? [No idea, not a member]

I don't understand how this can possibly do harm. Anyone savvy enough to refer to any pub web site is hardly likely to see names like that and think "I bet they do a cracking pint of Jaipur in there".

It's like someone going out for a fine dining experience looking at a restaurant web site who notices a Big Mac listed and ends up going there.

[aleandhearty]

Increasingly the lines between pubs and restaurants are getting blurred....


The bottom line for me is whether you can just pop in for a beer....

Certainly agree with Quinno about the new generation of venues. There's a good handful in Leeds, for example, that are pushing the boundaries. Maldenman's bottom line is the criterion I work by. Regarding what should be included on the site is always contentious. Most of us are, I suspect, real ale loving traditional pub hounds and would be quite happy just to see that type venue listed. However, beyond the clubby atmosphere of the forums, who uses the main site? I work on the basis that there are casual visitors who dip into the front page. That is why I include trendy yoof bars I've no intention of visiting and major hotels. To help the viability of the site, I believe the database needs to be as comprehensive as possible and we need to be inclusive rather than exclusive, whilst adhering to the main criterion.

[Quinno]

Interesting comments chaps. I didn't have my PUG hat on when I was in Pieminster, but I suspect I'll be back there again before Xmas as I did enjoy the tucker. I'll hold off listing it for now as I haven't tested the boundaries of 'drink only' but if any South East PUGers get there before me... :drinkup:

[oldboots]

Hence the La Tascas, Cafe Rouge etc, they do harm on here IMO, and for the purists maybe CAMRA has an offering? [No idea, not a member]

They have, it is called WhatPub and although not available to the public yet it should be later this year.

[Farway]

I don't understand how this can possibly do harm. Anyone savvy enough to refer to any pub web site is hardly likely to see names like that and think "I bet they do a cracking pint of Jaipur in there".

It's like someone going out for a fine dining experience looking at a restaurant web site who notices a Big Mac listed and ends up going there.

Sorry, I left out out the NO prefix to "harm" which completely bu66ered up the meaning. Now corrected and a thousand grovels to all :o:o

I meant why not list them if it helps the main site? Visitors to unknown town / area / resort looking for somewhere to have lunch with granny while you can have a pint maybe?

[sheffield hatter]

Sorry, I left out out the NO

Are you by any chance a former politician or diplomat?

[Blackthorn]

But I say if it meets the previously stated PuG definition then put it on if you want, and don't if you don't want to. Personally I would only put one of the "La Tasca class" establishments on if I had gone in and bought a drink and had something to say about it.

Agreed. Personally I'm more inclined to add somewhere that concentrates on alcoholic drinks, even if it doesn't do draught beer (eg; cocktail bar) than I am somewhere that concentrates on food but may have an odd pump on the bar. But the important thing IMHO is to add some value by writing a review rather than just adding it with no additional comments.

[Farway]

Are you by any chance a former politician or diplomat?
I wish, I would love the pension

[NickDavies]

Seems like a re run of what is a pub. But a telling posting was one [name forgotten, sorry] that if in doubt list, you may one day need a beer whilst ma in law wants cup of tea & a bit of cake [or pie in this case].

Hence the La Tascas, Cafe Rouge etc, they do no harm on here IMO, and for the purists maybe CAMRA has an offering? [No idea, not a member]

Coincidentally this month's London Drinker (http://www.camralondon.org.uk/dl.php?id=7722) carries the following:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
CAMRA has now adopted a definition
which is largely based on the one that we have used for some time
in London, devised principally by Roger Warhurst who compiles
Capital Pubcheck. The aim is to identify the essential features that
differentiate a ‘pub’ from other on-trade licensed premises where
alcohol is sold. The definition is as follows:
‘The licensed premises must be open to and welcome the general
public without requiring membership or residency, allow free entry
(1), serve at least one draught beer (2), allow drinking without
requiring food to be consumed, have at least one indoor area not
laid out for meals, and permit drinks to be purchased in person at
a bar (3), without relying on table service.” The notes are: (1)
Except when entertainment is provided on limited occasions; (2)
Includes cask or keg beer; (3) Includes also a hatch or specific
service point

--------------------------------------------------------------------

"have at least one indoor area not laid out for meals" rules out quite a few GBG pubs at certain times of the week!

[sheffield hatter]

Coincidentally this month's [URL="http://www.camralondon.org.uk/dl.php?id=7722"]
‘The licensed premises must be open to and welcome the general
public without requiring membership or residency, allow free entry
(1), serve at least one draught beer (2), allow drinking without
requiring food to be consumed, have at least one indoor area not
laid out for meals, and permit drinks to be purchased in person at
a bar (3), without relying on table service.” The notes are: (1)
Except when entertainment is provided on limited occasions; (2)
Includes cask or keg beer; (3) Includes also a hatch or specific
service point


Seems like a sensible definition. But aren't there entries in the GBG that are membership clubs which allow persons carrying a copy of the GBG to drink there? Or have those been removed now...

[Quinno]

Seems like a sensible definition. But aren't there entries in the GBG that are membership clubs which allow persons carrying a copy of the GBG to drink there? Or have those been removed now...

No, still there...

[Pangolin]

Seems like a sensible definition. But aren't there entries in the GBG that are membership clubs which allow persons carrying a copy of the GBG to drink there? Or have those been removed now...

Not wanting to sound like a CAMRA apologist, but they have stated many times that it is a Good BEER Guide, not a Good PUB Guide, hence even the occasional off-licence creeps in.

The trouble with anything like the definition comes if you take it too seriously. There will always be odd exceptions - what about the few remaining cider houses that don't sell draught beer, for example? Conversely, I know many Indian restaurants that have a "not laid out" waiting area and they might easily serve a pint without a meal, especially if quiet.

[trainman]

I wandered out of CRAFT tonight and noticed Pieminster when passing. I had a quick look at pies & prices and had a chat, mentioning PG source, with a very nice young lady who then said she was prepping a tasting pie and gave me a wedge (deerstalker?), nice. There's an offer on Mondays, but can't recall without digging out the flyer.
Wouldn't be a place that I would expect to find on these pages but I've never been too worried as one can filter and choose to one's own preference. Superb customer skills from my young lady though, beats the pants off most pub service we come to expect, especially round London.

[london calling]

Went to Urban Sessions Hackney Wick last night.Only open for 3-4 months but it is free to enter and they sell beer but as its short lived is it worth bothering with.
More details on www.urbansessions.co.uk/

[Quinno]

Went to Urban Sessions Hackney Wick last night.Only open for 3-4 months but it is free to enter and they sell beer but as its short lived is it worth bothering with.
More details on www.urbansessions.co.uk/

Yes - I'd say it is.

[Mobyduck]

Went to Urban Sessions Hackney Wick last night.Only open for 3-4 months but it is free to enter and they sell beer but as its short lived is it worth bothering with.
More details on www.urbansessions.co.uk/
Sounds good John ,but is it not a bit trendy for you ? :evilgrin:

[london calling]

Sounds good John ,but is it not a bit trendy for you ? :evilgrin:

In the 8 pubs/bars I drank in last night I was probably the oldest drinker.Its seems to a young mans game this nightime drinking. The trendier the bar, the more I stand out.The more I stand out the easier it is to get served.One of the few advantages of age.

[bcfczuluarmy]

Tried to pop in the one in Bristol today for a pint after toying with the idea of adding to my list from seeing this thread. Was informed restaurant only licence so doesn't meet the criteria to add. Had you not popped in for pie Quinno would you have been served in London one?