Whatpub heads-up [Archive] - Pubs Galore Forums

Quinno

03-06-2013, 08:53

Whatpub.com, CAMRA’s online pubs database, launches in September to the general public according to the latest timeline.

As discussed elsewhere, it’s only as good as the local branches. So in Reading (:D) there is 100% coverage with pictures and most basic data on display whereas in large swathes of Wales there is, basically, bugger all. It’s a live and dynamic site that accepts suggested updates though again, these must be actioned by the local branch. How many of them remain engaged with the project beyond getting their data ready for launch is unclear.

There was a lot of talk about having comments (“CAMRA’s beerintheevening” as was said at the time) but that seems to have gone rather quiet and I’m wondering whether they’ve decided that it simply isn’t worth the effort (who will moderate it?); best just get the basic pub details listed and let the punters choose via the (sometimes wonderfully opaque-yet-loaded description). I guess we’ll find out in due course.

Rex_Rattus

03-06-2013, 10:50

I haven't heard anything about it being open for all and sundry to post what they like - a la BITE. As you say, some CAMRA areas have embraced the concept but others are apparently well behind the game. In my area, South West London, we've been using CAMRAHops for some time, and it is possible to dump all the data, but not photographs, from one to the other. But I also attended a meeting with another branch where their "data" were copies of the local pub guides with copious manuscript amendments, so they have an uphill struggle.

WhatPub is not going to be a competitor for Pubs Galore, but it should (if branches grip the issue) provide a valuable database of pub information.

oldboots

03-06-2013, 12:46

I wouldn't want to turn this into a CAMRA forum as there are a few of them around, but there's about 10% of branches haven't got the basic details (name, address phone no and if it sells real ale) for 90% of their "listed" pubs onto the system. As Quinno says large parts of south west and north west Wales aren't touched and neither is Northern Ireland. Scotland has basic details for nearly all its "listed" pubs and the big surprise is that London isn't very well covered.

The word "listed" is important as there are only about 34,000 pubs on WhatPub at present, I can't believe for example there are only 69 pubs in the whole of Fife, PuG lists 329. So it's not a challange to this august site. Branches who haven't listed a lot of pubs will have a shock coming as their GBG allocation is going to be linked to the number of real ale pubs on WhatPub.

Quinno

03-06-2013, 12:47

Branches who haven't listed a lot of pubs will have a shock coming as their GBG allocation is going to be linked to the number of real ale pubs on WhatPub.

You saw the same memo as me then ;)

gillhalfpint

03-06-2013, 20:26

I use WhatPub for my beer scoring, and find it easy to use as such. I don't use it in the same way as I use this site, but find it a decent reference for info. When I have had a query over something, I use the comment, and have always had a reply back, usually from the branch where the pub I have had the query is based. I see no problem with the site, and it doesn't compare with BITE. It is better organised than that site.

ROBCamra

04-06-2013, 10:24

, I can't believe for example there are only 69 pubs in the whole of Fife,

Whatpub only lists real ale pubs though doesn't it?

Having visited once a few years ago I can easily believe that there are only 69 real ale pubs in the whole of Fife. :evilgrin:

There are oly 21 listed in the GBG2013 for the whole county.

Quinno

04-06-2013, 12:09

Whatpub only lists real ale pubs though doesn't it?

No, it lists (or should list) all pubs (if uploaded). You can *search* by real ale pubs only.

ROBCamra

04-06-2013, 13:35

No, it lists (or should list) all pubs (if uploaded). You can *search* by real ale pubs only.

This is what the blurb that I've been sent says. So if it's not just real ale pubs they've not made that very clear have they?

WhatPub now lists over 33,000 pubs serving real ale!

Since CAMRA launched its new pub website ‘WhatPub’ to all members last September we have been working hard to improve the website.

Thousands of volunteers have been visiting pubs, and over 33,000 pubs serving real ale are now listed. The 'WhatPub' website aims to become the best, most comprehensive online pub listing which all pub-lovers can use and enjoy.

While we are listing over 90% of all the pubs in the UK serving real ale we need YOUR help to ensure these listings are as complete and accurate as possible.

We know that we must continue to develop and improve the site and with the help and support of members like you we can make this the best pub website in Britain.

P.S. There are loads of bars in Manchester not on it AND some of them serve real ale.

P.P.S. And I'm not telling them. :evilgrin:

oldboots

04-06-2013, 14:01

No, it lists (or should list) all pubs (if uploaded). You can *search* by real ale pubs only.

The default search is Pubs Only (ie no restaurants or clubs) and Must serve Real Ale, you can change this by unticking boxes under the search terms box. However to use Fife as an example again, they've only uploaded pubs that sell real ale, so they've missed the point or they're trying a fiddle :whistle:

Quinno

04-06-2013, 14:07

However to use Fife as an example again, they've only uploaded pubs that sell real ale, so they've missed the point or they're trying a fiddle :whistle:

Or read the same blurb as ROBCamra but took it as an instruction :rolleyes:

AlanH

04-06-2013, 14:54

P.S. There are loads of bars in Manchester not on it AND some of them serve real ale.

P.P.S. And I'm not telling them. :evilgrin:

As you use "them", I guess you are not very Camra friendly,:) in spite of using the same name (and pub) as the local camra branch! :D

Back to Fife. The local branch there have only keyed in their Real Ale ones as they all have the the cask icon, even when "must serve real ale" box is unticked. They have a lot of work to do!

What Pub has already reached it's public release target, but hope to improve more before September, especially in it's weaker branch areas, like rural (non tourist areas) of Wales [AND a few tourist ones!].
I have just keyed in the 261 pubs for Vale of Clwyd and corrected all the map points, so when I overlay the interactive map with the PuG one, they look exactly the same.
I am not volunteering to do the same for Gwynedd!
I compare both sites to find ommisions and errors on each. I "found" about 80 Welsh pubs on WP and added them to PuG.

WP and PuG are often weak in the same areas (rural Wales again!). One exception must be Gwent which is PuG's weakest area on GB mainland (for photos & reviews), but the local group have got more photos in Newport alone than PuG in the whole county.
PuG will always be a more personal, friendly (and user friendly) guide for the pub lover, but WP will be better for Real Ale drinkers who wish to avoid the keg only ones.
I wish WP would remove the aspirations to be as good as BITE. I think they achieved that in about half an hour!! :D:D

ROBCamra

04-06-2013, 16:05

As you use "them", I guess you are not very Camra friendly,:) in spite of using the same name (and pub) as the local camra branch! :D

It was my pub long before CAMRA's, roughly 22 years before!!

I even had to persuade the local branch's pubs officer to visit it when we'd started putting changing guests on.

He said it was "in and out" for beer quality and had no chance of making the GBG despite not having visited for 5 years.

GBG listed for 9 years now and National POTY 2012.

Rochdale POTY 2013, Rochdale, Oldham & Bury POTY 2013.

It just shows how much of F**k All our local branch know. :muppet::muppet::muppet:

As it happens he retires as Pubs Officer tonight at the CAMRA AGM. :rolleyes:

By the way I've been a CAMRA member for just over 24 years!!

Aqualung

04-06-2013, 23:00

It was my pub long before CAMRA's, roughly 22 years before!!

I even had to persuade the local branch's pubs officer to visit it when we'd started putting changing guests on.

He said it was "in and out" for beer quality and had no chance of making the GBG despite not having visited for 5 years.

GBG listed for 9 years now and National POTY 2012.

Rochdale POTY 2013, Rochdale, Oldham & Bury POTY 2013.

It just shows how much of F**k All our local branch know. :muppet::muppet::muppet:

As it happens he retires as Pubs Officer tonight at the CAMRA AGM. :rolleyes:

By the way I've been a CAMRA member for just over 24 years!!

I'm really struggling with this project.

I edited the details for two local pubs that I felt I knew well enough to do so and nothing seems to have happened.

I wanted to ADD two pubs that I visited recently in North Wales and could find no means of doing so.

The local branch seems to be offering survey forms that are designed for GBG entries that are a complete nightmare as it seems to involve reams of information plus an interrogation of the Landlord.

The web site seems to be fairly basic as I wanted to see the Nags Head in Reading as a good example of how things should be done and I only managed to get to it by trawling through all the entries for RG1.

I've been a CAMRA member since 1974 (with a brief lapse due to an administrative error). I can't help thinking that the local branch is far too pre-occupied with the annual beer festival, the benefits to "the cause" of which are grossly over-rated as the attendees are mostly existing CAMRA members and/or tickers.

oldboots

05-06-2013, 08:01

I'm really struggling with this project.

I edited the details for two local pubs that I felt I knew well enough to do so and nothing seems to have happened.

I wanted to ADD two pubs that I visited recently in North Wales and could find no means of doing so.

This all depends on who is looking after the database for the branch, ideally a keen person will check the feedback emails daily, action if poss and confirm back to the sender but..... well you know the rest. Adding pubs can be a bit of a struggle depending on which of the THREE available systems the branch is using, it's not do-able by anyone outside of the branch committee, (in the case of elderly luddites not then either :D )

Don't even ask about adding photos in two of those systems :eek:.

The web site seems to be fairly basic as I wanted to see the Nags Head in Reading as a good example of how things should be done and I only managed to get to it by trawling through all the entries for RG1.

yes that search function is crap needs some work. Quinno will be pleased you chose a Reading pub as a good example.

Having said all that I still think it's a worthwhile project and it is constantly improving.

Quinno

05-06-2013, 08:14

yes that search function is crap needs some work. Quinno will be pleased you chose a Reading pub as a good example.

I am :D

Search works OK for me if I type in "nags head reading" - brings it straight up? Can you have another go Aqualung? Obviously I have admin privileges which may or may not affect things.

I also noticed there's a missing 'x' from the word next in the entry :o

oldboots

05-06-2013, 08:24

Search works OK for me if I type in "nags head reading" - brings it straight up

it does, they must have improved it a bit since I last did a search that way. I'll check our branch is working properly.

Aqualung

05-06-2013, 08:48

I tried three combinations this morning, Nags Head Reading, Nag's Head Reading and Nags Head, Reading and they all worked! Either they have changed the search engine overnight or I made a mistake. Hmm, I dare say they have changed the engine or maybe I just needed my Reading glasses.

AlanH

05-06-2013, 09:05

The local branch seems to be offering survey forms that are designed for GBG entries that are a complete nightmare as it seems to involve reams of information plus an interrogation of the Landlord.

The full data on the survey form is needed in full for the GBG only.
For What Pub you can add as little or as much as you know. When a pub has only got basic details, any improvement on this is more than welcome.
But as Old Boots says, the response time depends on the local branch. In the Vale of Clwyd, I like to do it in less than 24 hours and photos are no problem as we use Pubzilla (the most simple system). Updates that I have sent to other branches vary from "next day" to "still waiting!"
I am personally more interested in What Pub than the GBG, as it will be comprehensive and potentially up to date.
Along with the more user friendly PuG, the more detailed WP will make the perfect search duo!

Dave M

11-09-2013, 21:45

So I believe that WhatPub is supposed to be launching tomorrow along with the latest GBG. Will be interesting to see how much publicity they get.

Does anyone know how many pubs they have listed now?

ROBCamra

11-09-2013, 22:16

So I believe that WhatPub is supposed to be launching tomorrow along with the latest GBG. Will be interesting to see how much publicity they get.

Does anyone know how many pubs they have listed now?

35800 they claim as of Tuesday, but only 21000 with full details.

I've had my GBG for just over week already, it comes early if you do it be direct debit and only costs a tenner. :cheers:

Aqualung

11-09-2013, 22:31

So I believe that WhatPub is supposed to be launching tomorrow along with the latest GBG. Will be interesting to see how much publicity they get.

Does anyone know how many pubs they have listed now?

My GBG arrived on the 2nd of September.
I've just looked at a few E London areas and they seem to have mostly or entirely included just real ale pubs. I don't have a problem with that, in fact it would be nice to have an option to filter out pubs selling one single boring national brand. To be fair to them they are on the money with listing the three new Antic pubs.

I had a quick look at parts of Gwynedd that I know fairly well and there seems to be a real problem there. I'm not surprised as when I used to go to the Vaynol Arms in Nant Peris over 30 years ago the GBG survey was carried out by someone from Chester.

I've no idea how you would find out the total number of pubs.

EDIT: ROBCamra has beaten me to some of my points!

gillhalfpint

12-09-2013, 09:07

I quite like the Whatpub site, and if I can load an app I will do. I have Pubs Galore and Good Beer Guide on my phone for our travels, and Whatpub will be a useful addition too.

AlanH

12-09-2013, 10:04

So I believe that WhatPub is supposed to be launching tomorrow along with the latest GBG. Will be interesting to see how much publicity they get.

Does anyone know how many pubs they have listed now?

The What Pub main site is not due to go public until the 23rd Sept with plenty of publicity.
The App version was launched now to coincide with the GBG launch.

Still a few search problems -
From the WP forum

"With the launch rapidly approaching, it is very concerning that there still seems to be a total denial that the search in WhatPub has some very serious flaws, many of which have been there for best part of a year and been pointed out many times but are constantly blamed on the branch for not putting in the right 'alternatives'.

If I put the same search term "Wellington, Manchester" into PubsGalore I get The Old Wellington top, followed by the Duke Of Wellington followed by a number of other Wellington's which aren't in Manchester council boundary but are within Greater Manchester - exactly what I would expect to get."

Nice to get some credit :notworthy:

Dave M

12-09-2013, 11:10

35800 they claim as of Tuesday, but only 21000 with full details.

Well in terms of a pub listing site that I think probably puts them ahead of BitE which has 40996 UK listings, but I reckon about 15% of them are closed.

The What Pub main site is not due to go public until the 23rd Sept with plenty of publicity.

Ah thanks, I read ages ago that the launches were going to coincide, makes more sense for them to be close but not together really. I will be interested to see if any journalists actually do their job and give PuG a mention when the WhatPub launch happens, my guess is probably not! :rolleyes:

Still a few search problems -
From the WP forum

"With the launch rapidly approaching, it is very concerning that there still seems to be a total denial that the search in WhatPub has some very serious flaws, many of which have been there for best part of a year and been pointed out many times but are constantly blamed on the branch for not putting in the right 'alternatives'.

If I put the same search term "Wellington, Manchester" into PubsGalore I get The Old Wellington top, followed by the Duke Of Wellington followed by a number of other Wellington's which aren't in Manchester council boundary but are within Greater Manchester - exactly what I would expect to get."

Nice to get some credit :notworthy:

Yeah that is nice to hear! To be fair search is a very difficult thing to get right and ours is still nowhere near perfect but it is pretty damn good I think.

Interestingly most visitors to the site don't actually use the search in that way (even though that is how it is intended). Just looked through all of our searches in the last 24 hours and the vast majority were for a place name, only about 8% of them were for a pub name + place name combination.

Bizarrely one of the most common searches we get is 'menu'. I can only assume people arrive at a pub page and think we are the actual pub so they type that in to try to find the menu.

trainman

12-09-2013, 11:15

Bizarrely one of the most common searches we get is 'menu'. I can only assume people arrive at a pub page and think we are the actual pub
Food, Galore-ious food?

AlanH

12-09-2013, 11:54

Well in terms of a pub listing site that I think probably puts them ahead of BitE which has 40996 UK listings, but I reckon about 15% of them are closed.

I will be interested to see if any journalists actually do their job and give PuG a mention when the WhatPub launch happens, my guess is probably not! :rolleyes:

The 35,800 is only the Real Ale pubs. There are many more keg pubs on the site but the number is not stated. Most branches have put all their pubs on (as directed) but some branches have only got round to adding their Real Ale ones.
Closed pubs also stay on the site, but are not actively added as on PuG.

PuG should get a mention (If the journalists were aware!), because many branches have clearly used PuG as their base listings, with it having the most up to date readily available lists.

hondo

23-09-2013, 09:28

http://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/General-News/CAMRA-launches-new-national-online-pub-guide

PaulOfHorsham

23-09-2013, 11:37

It's not the fastest-loading website around is it? Or are there tens of thousands of CAMRA members shirking this morning, checking out where to go after work?

hondo

23-09-2013, 12:04

It's not the fastest-loading website around is it? Or are there tens of thousands of CAMRA members shirking this morning, checking out where to go after work?

Just did a search of my local area they list 6 out of 15 pubs/bars i know are open :whistle:

Quinno

23-09-2013, 14:10

Just did a search of my local area they list 6 out of 15 pubs/bars i know are open :whistle:

Have you unticked the 'pubs must serve real ale' option? It is ticked as default.

Aqualung

23-09-2013, 15:10

Have you unticked the 'pubs must serve real ale' option? It is ticked as default.

I fell for that one! It would be better if the site remembered whether it was ticked or unticked from your previous visit.

hondo

24-09-2013, 05:58

Have you unticked the 'pubs must serve real ale' option? It is ticked as default.

yes all filters switched off just 6 listed includes a rugby club that isn't listed here but they say non members welcome so i might add it but 10 pubs/bars not listed

Dave M

24-09-2013, 10:43

It's not the fastest-loading website around is it? Or are there tens of thousands of CAMRA members shirking this morning, checking out where to go after work?

I think it was under a fair bit of strain yesterday. It is pretty snappy today.

Dave M

25-09-2013, 18:51

Just had a read of Pub Curmudgeons thoughts on WhatPub (http://pubcurmudgeon.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/what-pub-shall-we-go-to.html). Thank you to whoever ShadowHider is, I appreciate the supportive comments! :)

ROBCamra

25-09-2013, 19:12

oldboots

25-09-2013, 21:47

OK, who's first with a review of " The Black Swan (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/3801/) or the Ye Old Red Lion (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/3954/) just down the road"

Aqualung

25-09-2013, 22:25

The SW Essex branch seems to be struggling. They are responsible for the parts of East London outside the London postal codes, which to be fair must be a struggle as they seem to be based in the Grays area of Essex. They have only updated the two GBG listed Woodford Green pubs in the past few days and they seem to have completely omitted the Ilford Wetherspoons!

Dave M

25-09-2013, 22:33

AlanH

26-09-2013, 02:41

Has anyone else noticed that the number of real ale pubs on the site has been dropping a bit? Presumably people are flagging up duplicates.

I'm wondering if it might drop below 35,800 and if it does will the header that says "Featuring over 35,800 real ale pubs" be changed? :evilgrin:

I guess one issue is with country pubs that several different branches try to take ownership of, such as:-
Pig in Muck (http://whatpub.com/pubs/HIN/8623/pig-in-muck-claybrooke-magna)
Pig in Muck (http://whatpub.com/pubs/LEI/35/pig-in-muck-claybrooke-magna)
Pig in Muck (http://whatpub.com/pubs/RUG/94/pig-in-muck-claybrook-magna)

I have reported many duplicates and triplicates in the last few months. Some branches correct them quickly, and some just don't bother. I will see how long this one takes!
It's the same with map points. Some have left most of them on the post codes and ignore corrections, so it's a complete shambles of pubs out of place and on top of each other. Much better on PuG where we can correct any directly. :notworthy:

sheffield hatter

02-10-2013, 21:22

OK, who's first with a review of " The Black Swan (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/3801/) or the Ye Old Red Lion (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/3954/) just down the road"

As luck would have it, I was in Lymm today on a crawl that I'd planned before this thread appeared, and having an hour or two to spare after some of the Lymm pubs turned out to be not open during the day, I caught the bus out to Hollins Green and did both pubs.:)

The Black Swan is an excellent pub. Not the easiest to get to (it's a 25 minute bus ride from Warrington, much further from Manchester) but worth the effort if you're in the area.

Rex_Rattus

29-10-2013, 11:08

I thought I would try and shift the WhatPub discussion from the Real Ale thread to the WhatPub thread. The November issue of What's Brewing has a piece on the front page about WhatPub which says "More features are planned for WhatPub include the ability for members to flag pubs they have visited with comments, and a Trip Advisor-style pub rating facility."

This would make it much more akin to the pub review sites. Hopefully restricting the ability to comment to CAMRA members will go a long way to avoiding Troll-ish behaviour, but they will still need someone (branches presumably) to keep an eye on the moderation side of things.

Quinno

29-10-2013, 12:13

Aqualung

29-10-2013, 12:44

I was looking at a corner of Gwynedd recently. A Robinson's pub in Llanbedr is not included at all while the towns of Barmouth and Dolgellau don't have a single pub listed. In the branch participation list the Gwynedd A Mon branch have an Amber rating where 160 of their 163 pubs have basic details!

Rex_Rattus

29-10-2013, 13:03

I genuinely don't see how this will work. Who polices the site to stop rubbish/flaming/trolling? The local branches? Ha ha, don't make me laugh!

Do CAMRA members go in for trolling and the like? Maybe I'm being hopelessly naive in hoping it won't be a problem. My guess is that either the branches are responsible for moderation or nobody is. Could be the latter I suppose, where some branches aren't quite so committed to WhatPub as others.

NickDavies

29-10-2013, 15:46

Do CAMRA members go in for trolling and the like? Maybe I'm being hopelessly naive in hoping it won't be a problem. My guess is that either the branches are responsible for moderation or nobody is. Could be the latter I suppose, where some branches aren't quite so committed to WhatPub as others.

There was a right old to-do over this pub (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/39661/), which went from a regional POTY to being thrown out of the GBG in short order. A flavour of the goings on can be deduced here (http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs/comments.shtml/12183/)., go back 12-18 months.

I think it would be difficult for some branches to come to a reasoned assessment of a pub when some members are engaged in a long term feud with the management alongside others who think it's the best pub for miles around

Rex_Rattus

29-10-2013, 16:29

oldboots

29-10-2013, 17:11

There was a right old to-do over this pub (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/39661/), which went from a regional POTY to being thrown out of the GBG in short order. A flavour of the goings on can be deduced here (http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs/comments.shtml/12183/)., go back 12-18 months.

I think it would be difficult for some branches to come to a reasoned assessment of a pub when some members are engaged in a long term feud with the management alongside others who think it's the best pub for miles around

This is a prime example of at least two reasons why we don't want trip advisor type comments on WP and incidentally why moving to a selection system based more on What Pub Beer Scoring is the way forward. I see the pub Nick mentions is in the GBG2014 and the North Sussex CAMRA website has died (or been pulled?)

Do CAMRA members go in for trolling and the like? Maybe I'm being hopelessly naive in hoping it won't be a problem. My guess is that either the branches are responsible for moderation or nobody is. Could be the latter I suppose, where some branches aren't quite so committed to WhatPub as others.

Yes the commitment is variable, some branches for example have only loaded pubs they know sell real ale as is painfully obvious, it would be hopeless getting them to moderate as well. Go in for trolling and the like? Read Dickie "Chemical Fizz" English on the CAMRA forum for example or some of the blowhards in Whats Brewing or Beer, its banning dogs this month/quarter FFS.

I genuinely don't see how this will work. Who polices the site to stop rubbish/flaming/trolling? The local branches? Ha ha, don't make me laugh!

Quite, made me laugh too.

oldboots

29-10-2013, 17:13

Not rocket science, but someone will have to take on the job.

Ah you've spotted the fatal flaw then;)

Aqualung

29-10-2013, 17:45

I wonder how many of the Royal Oak protagonists were CAMRA members, and thus in a position to repeat their antics if/when Whatpub opens itself up to comments? I suppose it could happen. I doubt whether branches will need to come to a reasoned assessment of a pub (other than in the GBG context which is the case at the moment). All WhatPub needs is someone to write up a short factual piece on the pub - already done for the Royal oak - and someone to act as moderator (probably the Pubs Officer) to put a stop to the sort of nonsense that we've seen far too often on BITE. Not rocket science, but someone will have to take on the job.

I'm surprised that you put so much trust in CAMRA members, especially after your recent visit to this pub (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/56886/) in Walthamstow which appeared for the very first time in the 2014 GBG. It is a former Watney's pub, now part of the Enterprise chain and is most famous for Live music at Weekends. The three beers you found were very boring and more expensive than more interesting offerings in the Bell. Walthamstow already has two well established real ale pubs (the Rose and Crown and the Nag's Head) and the Bell is the new kid on the block, so why they thought it a good idea to put this place in is a complete mystery to me. It's one of the nearest pubs to where I live and in 25 years I have never visited it and after seeing your review certainly don't intend to.

I only knew the Royal Oak at Friday Street from it's King and Barnes days. It is quite remote and I'm sure when I went there it would have only had three or four beers on at most, so maybe the issue was losing quality due to having too many beers and ciders available.

Quinno

29-10-2013, 20:13

Ah you've spotted the fatal flaw then;)

:lol:

There's not a cat-in-hell's chance the current Reading & Mid Berks Pubs Officer will be doing it!

There's really no need for comments - all it will do is create a licensee/branch committee/members-who-are-moaners-not-doers divide.

EG when we do our Ale Trail or GBG selection we get a regular troupe of grumblers moaning about why pub X is/isn't in etc. Do they get involved? Nope. Do they score? No. They just carp. Can you imagine that on WhatPub? Massive brand damage to CAMRA (which struggles enough as it is sometimes). Best left well-alone, says I.

bcfczuluarmy

29-10-2013, 21:14

I've had a look and a few pubs missing around Bristol, no intention of adding them at present as PuG is OCD enough however one feature I've noticed is former names which was a thread I was going to start on here a while ago. Also without looking too hard into the options on a search I don't like the crow flies distance from a fixed point to the locations of pubs.

They do also have pubs/bars/oddities that I've stumbled/been on around Bristol and thought not worthy of adding on here however if they feature on there should I add and get my pictures on first?

Examples are:-

http://whatpub.com/pubs/AVN/793/chophouse-bar-and-restaurant-bristol
http://whatpub.com/pubs/AVN/187/lanes-bristol
http://whatpub.com/pubs/AVN/785/river-cottage-canteen-bristol
http://whatpub.com/pubs/AVN/732/chimp-house-bristol I wouldn't add this as it's a hire venue that opens at odd times. Last time I went was on a crawl down the main road by my house and it was open as some Rugby was on, Can't say I've seen it open many times since.

Oh and this shut ages ago and is now a cafe. http://whatpub.com/pubs/AVN/155/old-fox-inn-bristol

I stumbled on PuG a couple of years ago and I think it was the only the only thing I needed to stumble on in the past and for the future.

Aqualung

29-10-2013, 21:46

:lol:

There's not a cat-in-hell's chance the current Reading & Mid Berks Pubs Officer will be doing it!

There's really no need for comments - all it will do is create a licensee/branch committee/members-who-are-moaners-not-doers divide.

EG when we do our Ale Trail or GBG selection we get a regular troupe of grumblers moaning about why pub X is/isn't in etc. Do they get involved? Nope. Do they score? No. They just carp. Can you imagine that on WhatPub? Massive brand damage to CAMRA (which struggles enough as it is sometimes). Best left well-alone, says I.

I have to say I agree with you. I don't think that WhatPub should become another PUG or BITE. It's working as well as can be expected at the moment. Their priority should be to get the existing data up to speed, and my few attempts at helping them with this have been futile so far apart from SW London.

bcfczuluarmy

29-10-2013, 22:04

Also this http://whatpub.com/pubs/AVN/128/fire-engine-bristol was reported closed on the 14/10/13 but I know it was open as I passed it after going to the pub round the corner on the same day so it must have shut after about 6pm.

Oggwyn Trench

30-10-2013, 07:35

Telford and East Shropshire listings , after you take out all the closed pubs , duplicates , hotels , resturants , golf clubs and sport centres seems to be based on data 10-15 years out of date .
Some of the info is not far off , usually local CAMRA favorites , but a lot is just a joke , the Red Lion just up the road from me had its details updated on 07/10/13 without any mention of the fact it been closed for the last 12 months , a few pubs are marked as permantly closed are open .
It all looks rather hurriedly cobbled together to me .

NickDavies

30-10-2013, 08:50

I only knew the Royal Oak at Friday Street from it's King and Barnes days. It is quite remote and I'm sure when I went there it would have only had three or four beers on at most, so maybe the issue was losing quality due to having too many beers and ciders available.

The problem in essence was that the pub's guvnors declined to be advised on how to run their business by some members of the branch.

Quinno

30-10-2013, 09:31

The problem in essence was that the pub's guvnors declined to be advised on how to run their business by some members of the branch.

I wondered what the background to that was all about!

Whilst my branch isn't necessarily a beacon of operational excellence we have at least long driven the Turnip Taliban out (tales of a pub not being let into GBG because of a spat with a couple of committee members etc)

Wittenden

30-10-2013, 12:23

The problem in essence was that the pub's guvnors declined to be advised on how to run their business by some members of the branch.

'Twas ever thus, and embarrasing when I was a (known) Camra member.

NickDavies

02-01-2014, 14:05

'Twas ever thus, and embarrasing when I was a (known) Camra member.

It's still going on:

http://www.westsussextoday.co.uk/news/letters/letter-incredible-request-for-pub-funding-1-5743354

refers to

http://www.westsussextoday.co.uk/news/rusper-landlady-wants-to-sell-village-pub-as-a-piece-of-living-art-1-5723113

Aqualung

02-01-2014, 16:37

I only have vague memories of this place from King & Barnes days when I would have visited at lunchtime. I remember it as a remote country pub that wasn't all that busy. There are some things that don't add up here. How would they have got a mortgage for this place at their age? If the place has always run at a loss surely the bank would have initially rejected their mortgage application?
Is it really worth £300,000? My recollection was that the place was quite small, but maybe it includes grounds. This sort of pub tends to only survive by selling food and I notice that they don't do any at all, even though they do accomodation!.

I find the whole thing totally bizarre!

I have a memory of K&B using a picture of Oliver Reed falling off a log in the garden of one of their pubs and wondered if this was the one. I was told that he was "known" in most of their houses on the North side of Horsham.

bcfczuluarmy

03-01-2014, 19:26

On the way pack from Portsmouth today I stopped at The Shoe Inn (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/13656/) and picked up the Autumn edition of Hop Press South Hampshire CAMRA magazine they had by the bar which had a picture advertising Whatpub on the front. Was more than surprised to see another article referring to the numerous web sites to find pub information but not referencing PuG. Are they that worried by adding this site as a reference it will scare people away from their infant site?

I did quite like the comment that referred to "allowing users to undertake their own historic research..." For pubs in my area they've barely not got any down as closed that haven't still got the smell of fresh paint from the supermarket conversion. This site has a better sense of pubs that used to be here more than a week ago and we all know of more historic ones to add if we choose to do so....

Point being this site is and will be better than whatever Whatpub can become especially as they have inaccurate information months after being informed changes to pubs status. 150,000 dedicated member I'm not sure that's the description I'd use.

Strongers

04-01-2014, 01:21

The problem with PuG is that it is normally on the second or third page of Google searches. I type in ‘pubs gal’ and the order of pop down options I get are ‘pubs Galway’, ‘pubs Galgate’, and then ‘pubs galore’.

There isn’t even a Galgate pub website!

This is a great site with top content, I wouldn’t have migrated here if it wasn’t, but it is not well known. It needs to be!

bcfczuluarmy

04-01-2014, 01:37

Mobyduck

05-01-2014, 16:29

I am finding Whatpub quite useful in respects of having opening times available plus good facility info, but you don't get any insight as to what the actual pub is like. On Pubsgalore you get to read the reviews of like minded people who give it to you as it is, in their view of course, but it works for me.

Rex_Rattus

05-01-2014, 16:44

Anyway WP is poorly updated/moderated in updating updates and here is so much better that I'm more than happy to only share my knowledge on here as previously mentioned.

I too find Whatpub useful, and I'm happy to give it a plug. Obviously it's only as good as the branches, and in particular their Pubs Officers, who have the job of keeping it up to date, and members who take the trouble to inform them of changes. And I reckon the London branches do a pretty good job of keeping it up to date. I've already found at least a couple of pubs on whatPub that we didn't have on Pubs Galore, and the other day I spotted another one not on here that I'll make a point of checking out. Also, I've also seen a couple that are open on WhatPub that are closed on here - and vice versa - that need checking out. But it can work the other way as well, as I for one input to WhatPub information revealed on Pubs Galore. I accept the point that WhatPub is essentially factual, and doesn't give the "flavour" of a pub that we get on here. I reckon that the two sites complement each nicely - at least in London which is the only area about which I know anything

Al 10000

05-01-2014, 17:16

I hate to admit it,but i did find Whatpub usefull when planning a pub crawl round the Kettering area,it gave accurate pub opening times for most pubs we went in.

Having said that Pubs Galore is a far better and friendly site to use,i use the term friendly both ways.

Aqualung

05-01-2014, 18:29

I too find Whatpub useful, and I'm happy to give it a plug. Obviously it's only as good as the branches, and in particular their Pubs Officers, who have the job of keeping it up to date, and members who take the trouble to inform them of changes. And I reckon the London branches do a pretty good job of keeping it up to date. I've already found at least a couple of pubs on whatPub that we didn't have on Pubs Galore, and the other day I spotted another one not on here that I'll make a point of checking out. Also, I've also seen a couple that are open on WhatPub that are closed on here - and vice versa - that need checking out. But it can work the other way as well, as I for one input to WhatPub information revealed on Pubs Galore. I accept the point that WhatPub is essentially factual, and doesn't give the "flavour" of a pub that we get on here. I reckon that the two sites complement each nicely - at least in London which is the only area about which I know anything

I tend to agree with what you've said. Stuff I have sent to Whatpub has been used, it's just that they don't acknowledge the fact. East London still have a lot to do, but they do have a lot of pubs most of which are rubbish.

Mobyduck

06-01-2014, 20:02

I came late to the pub world on the internet so not sure of various historical rivalries etc, I do generally type pubsgalore into a search as it directs me quicker directly especially if going for a county/town to look for a pub. Local counties all stored as favourites.

Anyway WP is poorly updated/moderated in updating updates and here is so much better that I'm more than happy to only share my knowledge on here as previously mentioned.
I have been sceptical but put forward ,Re the number of guest beers available,at my local (http://www.pubsgalore.co.uk/pubs/59679/), different than was stated . and got an immediate e-mail response and the changes were made within 12 hours,not bad, could of course be a one off or down to branches,mine is one of the smaller ones (North Hampshire), maybe they have less on the agenda and thus respond more quickly?

gillhalfpint

06-01-2014, 20:32

I have reported changes to Whatpub and had them taken up straight away in various branches while away. No problems so far, and usually get an e-mail too.

oldboots

06-01-2014, 20:55

Just to clarify some of the recent stuff on this from a CAMRA perspective; the usual mistake of regarding CAMRA as a monolith has been committed a couple of times on this thread, it's not - it's 150,000 plus people who happen to belong to one organisation, they don't all think the same, they aren't responsible for what the head office in St Albans puts out, and most of them don't take much part in the organisation anyway.

Coming to WhatPub, it's a purely voluntary thing developed and supported by enthusiasts, there is no official staff who run round the country checking up on pubs or waiting with baited breath for updates to land on their desktop. The whole thing is maintained by a very few willing volunteers in the branches and was developed from scratch by an even smaller band of geeks for free. Updates are made by someone in the Branch in which the pub lies when they have time available. The information is derived from a variety of sources which will vary from branch to branch, each one sets its own rules about this and each one has varying resources to do all the CAMRA "stuff" ranging from 5 old men and dog sticking to the same few well trusted pubs (my branch) to 20 or 30 keen pub goers who are falling over themselves to update pub information - probably. It really wouldn't work as an opinion or ratings site, CAMRA has a bad enough reputation without going down that path.

I would guess there are more people contributing to the toothy one than WhatPub; there may even be more PuG contributors than WhatPub ones.

Quinno

07-01-2014, 11:38

Cheers OB, I was gearing up to type a similar post myself but you made the points far better than I would have done so quite pleased! :notworthy:

It can't be overstated just how variable the quality of input and feedback can be within WhatPub per CAMRA branch. I always make a point of replying to any amendments submitted, acknowledging that the change has been actioned and thanking them for their time (after all, saves me a job!). Hopefully that little bit of courtesy will motivate them to report more things they come across.

Personally I'd say that what I do is common sense but you know what people can be like...! Also, some branches simply don't have someone OCD/daft enough like OB or myself, in which case submitted changes may simply be falling to a void, never to be sorted. Another reason why WhatPub must not go down the reviewing route!

AlanH

08-01-2014, 12:40

Cheers OB and Quinno. Many people seem to think a mistake on What Pub is something to report to the European Parliament.
Like PuG, it is updated by beer enthusiasts who can't get round all the pubs to keep up with the changes. There are still probably thousands of mistakes (as there will be also on PuG). Thats why us OCD's (sorry CDO's) spend half our time putting them right! My branch, Vale of Clwyd, is 5 dogs and one old man (thats probably why there is 25% K9P)!
I like to update What Pub in much less than 24 hours and always send a reply, but often I don't get replies (or even updates) from other branches.